ABORTION

Catholic Citizens of Illinois ^ | 12-16-03 | Barbara Kralis

[conservonator]

In an effort to explain let me ask a question. Do you consider abortion to be the biggest sin?

The greatest sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. You, as a bible wonk, should know that.

[newgeezer]

I don't know why you bother.

Then again, I remember how some of your biblical positions used to make me cringe, too. Understanding and agreement are usually only a matter of time.

One suggestion: You might want to really drive home the "sovereignty of God" point, early and often.

Carry on! :-)

[Pietro]

Thank you for this great post.

Many here will tell you that you're asking for too much, incrementalism, etc. Work on your 'marketing', come up w/ some cute buzz words.

But the truth must be expounded and told straight, undiluted.

Abortion in this country will not end until the hearts of the American people have been turned towards truth. That cannot happen unless and until the truth is inescapable.

God bless you.

[biblewonk]

The greatest sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. You, as a bible wonk, should know that.

There is an even lesser sin that had God's people, under God's orders, kill pregnant women and children. In other words abortion is not remotely the worst sin. Idolatry is far worse. So when I see people who are Christless, Godless Idolators, the killing of their own babies is a lesser side effect that God may do anyway. The real issue is man's salvation. There are a lot of people on the pro-life front that forget this. I am careful not to cross that line. Sometimes prolifers mistake that as being hardened to the killing of babies but I try to keep all in a biblical prespective.

[Rubber_Duckie_27]

"If you take the Pill, You are killing babies. So do real pro-lifers a favor: do not claim to be pro-life."

Yes I take the Pill. I can absolutely 100% guarantee that it has never prevented implantation in my case. Am I still killing babies now?

I've always been pro-life, always will be. Once a woman knows she's pregnant, it is abhorrent for her to intentionally cause the death of her child. Many women have eggs fertilized every cycle, only a relatively small percentage actually implant and are carried to term. How does it matter if that's due to the woman's use of hormonal birth control, or if it's due to some completely unrelated issue? If God means for a child to be brought into the world, it will happen regardless.



"To ingest such drugs knowing that they may cause the death of one of your children is the moral equivalent of criminally negligent homicide."

I take these hormones for a medical condition. Is it your opinion that all hormonal contraceptives should be outlawed? If so, I hope I can find another medication that will work as effectively to care for the medical issue that is the reason I use the patch to begin with.


In what has become a largely secular society, the majority still feels abortion - particularly late term abortion - is morally wrong. I know atheists who are pro-life, so using religious arguements does not appeal to many who would otherwise be open to banning abortion procedures like PBA. The pro-life movement is making strides, why muck it up by telling the average yuppie couple that Jesus says they're murdering their babies when the wife is taking the Pill? Mr. and Mrs. Average are absolutely not going to consider a pro-life opinion when you attack their use of birth control, and by extension, them. Attacking regular birth control pills is not going win the average educated, secular American to the pro-life cause. Which is worse, a mother intentionally causing the brutal death of her baby at 32 weeks gestation, or that same woman using birth control that may, in a small percentage of cases, prevent implantation of a fertilized egg? You've got to pick your battles, folks.

Getting back to the original topic, I think it's wrong that Plan B is going OTC - from a pure safety standpoint - and I absolutely hope there are controls in place to prevent minors from having unfettered access to this product. Without such controls, I fear that some scared young woman may grossly misuse this product and cause permanent harm to herself.

[conservonator]

So you see abortion as an act of God? Abortion is in effect idolatry. The act elevates self to a position that places it on par with God.

Abortion controverts Gods command to go forth and multiply. It, abortion, diminishes our understanding, accepting, and bowing to Gods sovereignty, by elevating our desires above Gods will. To not recognize this is to deny the most basic concept of idolatry: elevating that which is not God to godlike status. Abortion elevates the desires of self to a position superior to the will of God.

[biblewonk]

There is nothing good about abortion. It starts out with fornication and quite often prostitution. I suspect that the married women who get abortions which is only about 1 in 6 are often pregnant from adultary.

Then they finish off their evil deeds by killing an unborn baby.

How many happily married couples get abortions, I bet it is about 1 percent or so.

[conservonator]

How many happily married couples get abortions, I bet it is about 1 percent or so.

Looks like it's closer to 20%. I don't know how many are happy in their marriages.

[biblewonk]

Looks like it's closer to 20%. I don't know how many are happy in their marriages.

Just speculation on my part. I know an awful lot of married people that are not Christians and yet I still can't imagine them aborting a baby. The people I do know who have had abortions were slutting around.

[conservonator]

I, unfortunately, know some of each; the common thread is a belief that their interests trump all. Some have come to regret their actions, others are serial participants, one of the worst is a married woman who could best be described as nominally “Christian” i.e.; they attend a Christian church. She has had several "procedures" and is not ashamed to talk about it. Sad, sad, sad…

[biblewonk]

I, unfortunately, know some of each; the common thread is a belief that their interests trump all. Some have come to regret their actions, others are serial participants, one of the worst is a married woman who could best be described as nominally “Christian” i.e.; they attend a Christian church. She has had several "procedures" and is not ashamed to talk about it. Sad, sad, sad…

Wow a married woman here in Iowa that goes to a "church", I assume Methodist or worse, and repeatedly gets pregnant and kills her baby. Not someone I want to pal around with.

[Zack Nguyen]

Instead of demanding ROE be overturned right now, the pro-life movement would be better served advocating late term abortion bans, parental consent, and cutting all govt funding to Planned Parenthood.

That's exactly what every mainstream pro-life group is pushing for.

[Zack Nguyen]

Such tactics worked so well for the anti-war movement, after all.

It did work for them. A ragtag group of stoned out humanist 20-somethings drove a President from office. (LBJ.) They caused America to lose it's first war, and bear some moral culpability for the murder of millions by Communists throughout Vietnam and SE Asia. So it was very effective in achieving their goals.

I am not advocating that we all grab a disgusting sign and start waving it. I wouldn't. But the concept of protest and making a moral statement is sound.

[biblewonk]

Now I remember what started this discussion. I mentioned that I thought PBA was worse than 486. I guess I was too busy/lazy to backtrack.