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Freeloading on the Taxpayer's Dime
15 December 2003 | Andy Obermann

Posted on 12/19/2003 7:29:22 AM PST by AndyObermann

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To: Stephen Ritter
And NO ONE the H*** is going to tell me what to eat.

Sounds an awful lot like "Give me your money, and don't you dare question how I spend it!"

That my not be your intention, but in essence that's what your saying.

One of the multitude of problems with the government controlled welfare system is just this issue. If I give charity to someone personally, and then see him blowing it on cigarettes and junk food, I'm free not to give to him again. (This actually happened to me once.) When the government does it, I have to give no matter what they do.

So are you saying there are to be no restrictions on how you spend "your" money on food. Really? What about liquor? Cigarettes? That OK?

51 posted on 12/19/2003 10:00:00 AM PST by Jotmo ("Voon", said the mattress.)
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To: Paradox
That's right. No representation without taxation. To co-opt a phrase from our forefathers.
52 posted on 12/19/2003 10:04:06 AM PST by Straight Vermonter (We secretly switched ABC news with Al-Jazeera, lets see if these people can tell the difference.)
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To: babyface00
"it is not the governments role to dictate to anyone what they can and cannot consume."

When it is my dime government sure as hell can dictate what they can buy. It isn't his/her money they are throwing up there to buy food it is my dime, the hardworking taxpayer.
53 posted on 12/19/2003 10:05:14 AM PST by AbsoluteJustice (By the time you read this 100 other Freepers will have posted what I have said here!)
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To: Stephen Ritter
If I was going to "plunder" someone, I'd make sure that my plunder was more than $155 per month (our ENTIRE monthly grocery budget). Can YOU live and eat on 155 bucks a month.

Now you're griping that you don't get ENOUGH of our money???.

You are unbelievable!

54 posted on 12/19/2003 10:08:43 AM PST by Jotmo ("Voon", said the mattress.)
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To: Stephen Ritter
I feed a family of 6 with $300 a month.

You have NOTHING to gripe about!

55 posted on 12/19/2003 10:13:30 AM PST by Jotmo ("Voon", said the mattress.)
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To: Stephen Ritter
I'm truly sorry for your situation as I would be for anyone.

But your attitude sucks!

56 posted on 12/19/2003 10:16:17 AM PST by Jotmo ("Voon", said the mattress.)
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To: Stephen Ritter
"And NO ONE the H*** is going to tell me what to eat."

Just out of curiosity, are the taxpayers also paying for your health care?

57 posted on 12/19/2003 10:24:51 AM PST by freedox
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To: Protagoras
I'm interested in your use of the handle "Protagoras".

Protagoras was one of a group of Fifth Century BC philosophers. Primarily, he was a sophist, where we get the term "sophisticated".

Protagoras is known primarily for three claims (1) that man is the measure of all things (which is often interpreted as a sort of radical relativism) (2) that he could make the "worse (or weaker) argument appear the better (or stronger)" and (3) that one could not tell if the gods existed or not.

Protagoras' philosophy has primarily been used as one of the basis for the notion of modern relativism, which holds that all things are relative to the individual. It was also a foundation-stone of existentialism. In essense, it is at the heart of modern liberalism. Were you not aware of this?

Perhaps your use of this screen-name explains much of your attitude and thoughts.

Your use of the term "Pathetic" in your post doesn't even deserve a response ...
58 posted on 12/19/2003 10:48:31 AM PST by Stephen Ritter
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To: Jotmo
"But your attitude sucks!"

Dittos, my friend ...
59 posted on 12/19/2003 10:54:25 AM PST by Stephen Ritter
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To: Stephen Ritter
Protagoras was known by many as the "Father of debate" because he taught that there were two sides to every question.

And perhaps your inability to understand why your post to me was pathetic explains your attitudes and thoughts. Certainly your pitiful attempt to change the subject to my screen name is telling.

60 posted on 12/19/2003 10:57:47 AM PST by Protagoras (Hating Democrats doesn't make you a conservative.)
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To: Jotmo
"So are you saying there are to be no restrictions on how you spend "your" money on food. Really? What about liquor? Cigarettes? That OK?"

Don't drink. Don't smoke. Also, when it's transferred to me, it IS my money. (However, I suppose that's another example of my attitude which, as you've so elegantly stated in another post, "sucks".)

However, for the sake of argument (and this one is really getting tiresome), I can spend food stamp dollars on whatever foodstuffs I want ...

... until the law is changed ...

... so, if you don't like it, CHANGE THE LAW!!
61 posted on 12/19/2003 11:01:19 AM PST by Stephen Ritter
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To: Stephen Ritter
Been here almost a whole week and still haven't found out that your BS doesn't play here.
62 posted on 12/19/2003 11:01:25 AM PST by Protagoras (Hating Democrats doesn't make you a conservative.)
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To: Protagoras
"Protagoras was known by many as the "Father of debate" because he taught that there were two sides to every question."

That's why my side is being tolerated so well?

"And perhaps your inability to understand why your post to me was pathetic explains your attitudes and thoughts. Certainly your pitiful attempt to change the subject to my screen name is telling."

Pitiful? Pathetic? Inability to understand?

Since you decided not to answer my question, I guess some more "ad hominems" were in order, correct?
63 posted on 12/19/2003 11:04:42 AM PST by Stephen Ritter
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To: Protagoras
"Been here almost a whole week and still haven't found out that your BS doesn't play here."

I departed from the party line on one issue, and now my arguments are BS. Interesting. Sounds like the DU.

Shall we continue to flame each other, and engage in one ad hominem attack after another? Or could we perhaps assume that the other is at least honest in the argument, and start again from there?
64 posted on 12/19/2003 11:08:42 AM PST by Stephen Ritter
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To: Stephen Ritter
I predict that you won't last two weeks before the site owner boots you out. He doesn't like liberals coming in to disrupt the site.

"Toleration" of arguments is a liberal concept. You are entitled to your liberal nonsensical opinions but I am not obligated to "tolerate" them by agreeing or even giving them a second thought.

BTW, your screen name will be "tolerated" real well around here. LOL

65 posted on 12/19/2003 11:11:07 AM PST by Protagoras (Hating Democrats doesn't make you a conservative.)
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To: Stephen Ritter
Thanks for a different perspective on things! I was reading a newspaper with a column on the working poor. It spoke of a dinner they were having - polish sausage and potato chips. I wondered why they couldn't have bought a bag of potatoes or something that would last and be much cheaper.
66 posted on 12/19/2003 11:13:10 AM PST by technochick99
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To: Stephen Ritter
Sounds like the DU.

I'm guessing you have first hand knowledge about that site. What was the screen name you used before you were booted last time?

67 posted on 12/19/2003 11:13:51 AM PST by Protagoras (Hating Democrats doesn't make you a conservative.)
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To: freedox
"Just out of curiosity, are the taxpayers also paying for your health care?"

I get it, now. That's our way out of the welfare crisis in America. Let 'em all die, right?

This is why the Left gets away with calling everyone on the Right insensitive, uncompassionate, uncaring, and so forth. It's also why so many GOP politicians have to play the Left's game ...

... because there's people out in fly-over country implying that the unhealthy poor should go ahead and die.

Alright, answer me this question. I once made over $100,000 per year. After disability hit, and after all assets were sold and all of our resources were exhausted, just exactly how is one to pay for an $800 per month prescription drug cost?
68 posted on 12/19/2003 11:18:38 AM PST by Stephen Ritter
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To: technochick99
"Thanks for a different perspective on things! I was reading a newspaper with a column on the working poor. It spoke of a dinner they were having - polish sausage and potato chips. I wondered why they couldn't have bought a bag of potatoes or something that would last and be much cheaper."

Good question. Where I live, a lot of hispanic families get food stamps. Not illegals, but actual citizens. I was behind one such family in the checkout line last weekend. What do you suppose was in their cart?

Well, you might be surprised. There was a 10 pound bag of dry beans. Another 10 pound bag of rice. Flour, cornmeal, three 36 packs of tortillas. Four chickens. Three gallons of milk. Assorted vegetables, mostly tomatoes, onions, peppers, oranges, lemons, and other such. A butt roast of beef, a large chunk of pork, each probably 5 pounds.

No sodas. No chips. No frozen meals. Nothing of the sort.

This was a case where the mother of the family was buying basic foodstuffs and, I have no doubt, going to stretch them until there was nothing left.

She paid with food stamps. I was pleased.
69 posted on 12/19/2003 11:20:04 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Protagoras
"I'm guessing you have first hand knowledge about that site. What was the screen name you used before you were booted last time?"

I lasted at DU approximately 15 minutes after I posted my opinion about illegal immigration. I didn't expect to last there long, anyway. Several of us were trying to get an average time before the "boot" fell. For the 6 of us, it averaged about 23 minutes!
70 posted on 12/19/2003 11:21:47 AM PST by Stephen Ritter
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To: Stephen Ritter
This is why the Left gets away with calling everyone on the Right insensitive, uncompassionate, uncaring, and so forth.

Precisely as you have done all over this thread. Who the hell do you think you are fooling? You are a lefty.

After disability hit, and after all assets were sold and all of our resources were exhausted, just exactly how is one to pay for an $800 per month prescription drug cost?

Oh boo hoo hoo. Oh the inhumanity of it all!!!

The correct answer for the left is to steal it from other citizens.

71 posted on 12/19/2003 11:24:06 AM PST by Protagoras (Hating Democrats doesn't make you a conservative.)
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To: Protagoras
You have certainly earned your sophistry, Protagoras.

When you grow up, we'll talk some more ...
72 posted on 12/19/2003 11:26:00 AM PST by Stephen Ritter
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To: Stephen Ritter
So, stepehen, is your internet service free as well? Do you own your own computer???
73 posted on 12/19/2003 11:28:14 AM PST by flashbunny (The constitution doesn't protect only the things you approve of.)
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To: Stephen Ritter
You will last longer here lefty. Because they won't discover you that soon. But sure as I'm here, you will be discovered.

I don't mind if you stay BTW, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. But the site owner conciders all your positions to be already decided and doesn't like to waste the bandwidth debating people who are only here to disrupt.

Like I said, I don't agree with that policy, I like exposing the commies.

74 posted on 12/19/2003 11:28:20 AM PST by Protagoras (Hating Democrats doesn't make you a conservative.)
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To: Stephen Ritter
I'm not sure just how you came up with that interpretation of my response. My question about health care had to do with your assertion that nobody had the right to tell you what to eat. If the taxpayers are paying your grocery bills and your health care bills, I would say we have every right to be concerned about the quality of your nutrition.
75 posted on 12/19/2003 11:29:28 AM PST by freedox
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To: Stephen Ritter
Everyone here knows the law allows you to have that money. No one has argued that with you. The entire point of this discussion is that weather that law is consistent with "conservative" principles.

You seem to have trouble distinguishing between the two ideas.

You've said you're "entitled" to this money, and that indicates to us that your "conservatism" is suspect.

76 posted on 12/19/2003 11:30:29 AM PST by Jotmo ("Voon", said the mattress.)
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To: MineralMan
She paid with food stamps. I was pleased.

The best that could happen out of a bad situation.

77 posted on 12/19/2003 11:30:37 AM PST by Protagoras (Hating Democrats doesn't make you a conservative.)
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To: Protagoras; Stephen Ritter
No kidding and imagine how handy that quarter of a mil taken by force would have been to Mr. Ritter had he been able to funnel it off for his own benefit.
78 posted on 12/19/2003 1:57:32 PM PST by cupcakes
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To: AndyObermann
"In 1964, President Lyndon Johnson passed the first national Food Stamp Act. In it, he outlined a plan to provide adequate nourishment for all American citizens as part of his ?Great Society?"

My recollection is that the real motivation for this and the Food for Peace programs was that government warehouses were bulging with food bought under farm support programs.
79 posted on 12/19/2003 2:46:47 PM PST by John Beresford Tipton
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To: All
Thanks for the great response to this one guys. You've all raised valid points. The problem is, as someone already said, this woman was not buying these "luxury" goods with her money. She was buying them with your money! I had a little debate with a lib. friend of mine today. (Background--he is fairly wealthy, etc...) He likened this situation to splurging. When he and his wife splurge, they go on a vacation--this may be this woman's splurge (chips/soda). My response was: What gives her the right to spluge with the assisstance that taxpayers give her? She shouldn't spend our money for her extras.

If you are using my money for anything, I want some say over how you're going to spend it. Bottom line.

-Andy

80 posted on 12/19/2003 8:50:38 PM PST by AndyObermann
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To: Stephen Ritter
If it is, and you are someday disabled yourself, I hope for your sake that we've grown as a people beyond such sentiments ...

Are there no prisons? And the Union workhouses? Are they still in operation? The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?

81 posted on 12/20/2003 5:26:47 AM PST by Lazamataz (Posted by SarcastoTron version 1.2 (c) 2001. All rights reserved.)
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To: Protagoras
"I like exposing the commies."

Then, go do the same. You'll be wasting you time with me. I've fought in conservatism's wars for the hearts and minds of the people since before you were born, I'd imagine (from the immature qualtiy of your posts).

I fought for Barry Goldwater in 1964. My reward: duty in Vietnam, with the Silver Star, two Bronze Stars, and the Purpule Heart. But I was glad to do it because I was fighting for my country and against Sovet expansionism.

I fought for Richard Nixon in 1968 and in 1972. For my troubles, I was attacked repeatedly on the streets for my opposition to the "people's will." But it was necessary. McGovern had to go down to defeat. He was a socialist, and an enemy.

At the university, I've had many an argument with the Lefties (and won more than one of them) over the election of Ronald Reagan, whom I regard as the greatest American president of the 20th Century.

In recent years, I've been one of the most vociferous defenders of the right, and of Mr. Rush Limbaugh, you could ever find. Indeed, he himself said that ... by comparison with me ... he's a New York socialist. It seems that he doesn't like my opposition to free trade.

I've been in the trenches all of my life fighting for what is right. Most recently, I've stood my ground and been arrested by my activities on behalf of the unborn ... America's national sin of the Holocaust, abortion. I'm a lifelong member of the NRA. My family has been Republican since 1854, and one of them worked in Mr. Lincoln's campaign in 1860.

And you antangonism towards has originated simply because I don't agree with you. That makes me a "commie" and a "lefty". "Expose" me all you like. You'll find it a difficult proposition. It's sort of like proving that a Chevy is a Ford. Not easy ...

I know who I am, sir, and "lefty" and "commie" do not fit into the description for me. Call me all the abusives you can cram into your brain. I know who I am, nonetheless.
82 posted on 12/20/2003 7:01:28 AM PST by Stephen Ritter (Constitution Party: The RIGHT party at the RIGHT time!!)
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To: Jotmo
"You've said you're "entitled" to this money, and that indicates to us that your "conservatism" is suspect."

You've consistently misunderstood me, sir. I'm entitled to this because it's the law. If you don't like the law, then change it.

But if you're ever in this condition, you will do whatever it takes to survive. On this, I can assure you ...

Naturally, my conservatism will no longer be suspect when I'm paying taxes again (as I continue to do on my home and two acres, which I WILL NOT give up).
83 posted on 12/20/2003 7:05:57 AM PST by Stephen Ritter (Constitution Party: The RIGHT party at the RIGHT time!!)
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To: flashbunny
"So, stepehen, is your internet service free as well? Do you own your own computer???"

Do you have a need to know? Or does your taxpayers status give the right to know, to invade my privacy?

Merry Christmas ...
84 posted on 12/20/2003 7:09:11 AM PST by Stephen Ritter (Constitution Party: The RIGHT party at the RIGHT time!!)
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To: ampat
"I do vote for the right people, but they always seem to be the lesser of all evils."

Then, look into the Constitution Party. It's America's last hope at a conservative future.
85 posted on 12/20/2003 7:49:47 AM PST by Stephen Ritter (Constitution Party: The RIGHT party at the RIGHT time!!)
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To: Protagoras
"I predict that you won't last two weeks before the site owner boots you out. He doesn't like liberals coming in to disrupt the site."

Go to other threads and read my posts, if you think I'm such a liberal disruption.
86 posted on 12/20/2003 7:51:39 AM PST by Stephen Ritter (Constitution Party: The RIGHT party at the RIGHT time!!)
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To: Lazamataz
"Are there no prisons? And the Union workhouses? Are they still in operation? The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?"

Bah! Humbug!
87 posted on 12/20/2003 7:54:32 AM PST by Stephen Ritter (Constitution Party: The RIGHT party at the RIGHT time!!)
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To: Stephen Ritter
Bah! Humbug!

;^)

88 posted on 12/20/2003 7:59:20 AM PST by Lazamataz (Posted by SarcastoTron version 1.2 (c) 2001. All rights reserved.)
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To: babyface00
OK now we have two diqualifiers if you dont own a home or if your recieving goverment assistance you cant vote allright ,whats next my husband and I pay A WHOLE LOT OF TAXES but we dont own our own home, and whats more we dont qualify for any programs that are aimed at helping people buy their own home, now you are telling us we havent the right to vote nice real nice.
89 posted on 12/20/2003 8:00:43 AM PST by douglas1 (i)
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To: AndyObermann
What many people don't realize is there are strict guidelines as to how WIC operates in regards to children's nutrition.

In the state of Michigan, WIC has certain brands and products it covers. For example, it will cover one brand of peanut butter (Jif?) and not Peter Pan. It covers Welchs' red grape juice but not white. If a baby in foster care requires a soy-based formula the parent can get permission for it easily enough, but getting special formulas can be tricky. It also covers limited brands of diapers, milk, etc.

I do find it interesting this system is applied to children in foster care (where the parents are required to go through training), and not to food stamps where no counseling is required by recipients.

90 posted on 12/20/2003 8:02:45 AM PST by Kieri (Who's waiting for the return of her beloved Farscape!)
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To: AndyObermann
If you lived along the border of the USA[ie Mexico] you would realy get an eye opener.A person will have two some three and some times one baskets full of groceres.Check out and pull the plastic or food stamps.Pay with them go out to the parking lot and load this in a new car with mexico lic.plates that is abuse you ask the manager why he says we sell grocers not police the people with plastic or food stamps.
91 posted on 12/20/2003 8:04:46 AM PST by solo gringo (Always Ranting Always Rite)
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To: Stephen Ritter
WE are a compassionate nation and I want you to know that most of AMERICANS are wishing you the best ,these programs were put into place for people just like you , and may this CHRISTMAS and this new year be bountiful for you and your family.
92 posted on 12/20/2003 8:29:50 AM PST by douglas1 (i)
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To: AndyObermann
An honest proposal would be to restrict Food Stamp purchases to the four basic food groups; grains, meats/poultry, dairy, fruits/vegetables.

Before Food Stamps, the Government had a commodity program that distributed flour, sugar, cheese, etc., to the poor. Many did not take advantage of the commodity program because it involved work: getting the food, preparing the food, etc.

93 posted on 12/20/2003 8:35:22 AM PST by JoeGar
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To: AndyObermann
I know what you mean about buying non essential stuff...it is a really tough situation though, at times.
I work with Special Ed folks who work, but make well below the poverty level, even with their SSI assistance.
The really dumb thing about food stamps is that they do NOT allow one to buy necessities like TOILET PAPER and, well, monthly, girl products! I KNOW they are called food stamps, yes, but people need things besides FOOD to make it an their own.
So if one of my "clients" has enough pocket money to get some gum or a soda (as seems ok to me to spend you pocket money on) I will advise them to use their food stamps for these $3-$5 per week expenditures and then use their pocket money for TP and the other stuff.
Light bulbs, TP, shampoo, soap, toilet cleaner, dish soap, laundry detergent...just about anything with tax on it is not available for purchase with food stamps.

I sure know what you mean about the abuse of the system, though. Their are lots of places where you can "sell" you stamps for 5o cents on the dollar. Then you can have CASH to buy your smokes, etc...

Hard call as to what to do about it. I have heard suggestions for "coupons" that have the actual items printed on them..IE "fruit" coupon for $5.00. TP/toiletries coupon for $5.00 etc...

BTW, a single low income person in our state (WA) gets over $100/month in food stamps. Kinda tight for a Special Ed person who needs more prepared type food, but doable with help.
94 posted on 12/20/2003 8:35:23 AM PST by M0sby (My Marine is HOME!)
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To: Stephen Ritter; All
"Alright, answer me this question. I once made over $100,000 per year. After disability hit, and after all assets were sold and all of our resources were exhausted, just exactly how is one to pay for an $800 per month prescription drug cost?"

Stephen, it might be too late to help you, but hopefully I can help a few others who are reading this thread. Several years ago, my husband became permanently disabled from a very lucrative career, so I do know a bit about this subject. Here's a little tip for all of you:

Private Disability Insurance........buy it today!

Since my husband's disability, I have been shocked by the number of people who seem to assume that disability automatically means "public assistance." It doesn't. Private disability insurance should be included in every responsible wage earner's budget......and I thank God it was included in my husband's. Trust me, it can make all the difference in the world if you are ever faced with the misfortune of becoming disabled.

95 posted on 12/20/2003 8:36:59 AM PST by freedox
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To: Stephen Ritter
if i had control over the way my money was spent, id see that you and yours ate all the steak you wanted. thank you for your service to our country!
96 posted on 12/20/2003 8:43:46 AM PST by 1john2 3and4 ( at ONE with my duality)
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To: JoeGar
They still have this program...their are massive amounts of this "stuff" available at ANY govt supplied food bank.
TONS AND TONS of it at least in our area.
Big problem I see at our local food bank is that the folks who are going their do not have a way to get the stuff home.
I have often thought that this would be a valuable church type charity for someone to do. Provide rides for folks HOME from the food bank, so they can carry the heavy stuff.
Have you ever noticed that the "good for you food" is the heaviest. I sure didn't before I was their.
What I have seen is the PASTA box (mac and cheese etc) and the bread stuff goes fast, while the Potatoes, flour, cheese and even cans of peanut butter sit their forever!

Weird thing to observe.
97 posted on 12/20/2003 8:52:07 AM PST by M0sby (My Marine is HOME!)
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To: Stephen Ritter
The government programs allowed us to live independently.

Except you aren't living independently --- but that's one of the big flaws in the system --- you might have worked many years and paid in ---- but now you're living on the same programs as the loafers who never have worked, never intend to work are --- and they are able-bodied. There should be insurance plans that cover long-term disability but the able bodied should be required to work for a living.

98 posted on 12/20/2003 8:59:38 AM PST by FITZ
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To: Stephen Ritter
Setting aside the question of whether these programs are legal, I think that most on this forum would agree that if these programs are in place, they should be providing funds to the truly needy or ill, not the long-term layabout. You sound like the kind of person who was struck with a sudden, devastating illness that makes it impossible to work and I would not begrudge you the assistance. You've clouded the situation somewhat in my mind by taking your wife out of the discussion. Either she's got a legitimate disability, in which case see above, or she's got a bogus disability (alcoholism, drug abuse, etc.) in which case my thoughts on the issue would change.

As for whether the government that hands you money can tell you what to spend it on, I say they can. They do it to businesses all the time, including telling them the race and sex of the people they have to hire to perform a government project. Don't like it, don't participate. It would be easy enough to program cash registers with foods that are Food Stamp eligible or ineligible.
99 posted on 12/20/2003 9:05:44 AM PST by republicofdavis
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To: Stephen Ritter
I get it, now. That's our way out of the welfare crisis in America. Let 'em all die, right?

The food stamp program should be ended --- there are food banks that people contribute food for the poor ---- the practical conservatives would contribute basic foods like beans, rice, flour. The generous liberals I'm sure will contribute candies, cookies, cavier.

All contributions should be private ---- true charity which is the realm of the Church. Get the government out of the Church's job.

100 posted on 12/20/2003 9:11:13 AM PST by FITZ
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