Egyptian drones spying on Israel

Jerusalem Post ^ | 12-22-03 | DOUGLAS DAVIS

[SJackson]

Israeli officials are expected to protest Egyptian drones that are being used to spy on Israeli defense facilities when Egypt's Foreign Minister Ahmed Maher visits this week, London's Sunday Times reported.

Amid growing military tensions, Israel is reported to have threatened to shoot down the unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) which have been detected in recent weeks over the nuclear research facility at Nahal Sorek and the missile test site at Palmahim, south of Tel Aviv.

The flights contravene the 1979 peace treaty with Egypt and are said to be fueling the growing distrust between Israel and Egypt over a military build-up.

"We'll raise the urgent issue of their spy flights for sure," an Israeli source told the Times. "However, we know that they may stop them only when we intercept the intruders, and that will not take long."

A military source conceded, "we're worried about them," adding that "they have the nerve to send their UAVs over is a worrying sign." Israel's worries are said to reflect broader concern about Egypt's growing military strength and President Hosni Mubarak's declining health.

Jerusalem reportedly asked Washington not to supply Egypt with advanced F-15 jets or "smart" JDAM (joint direct attack munition) bombs. After being shown intelligence which revealed that Israel was the "enemy" in all of Egypt's recent war games, the US froze Cairo's request.

The Times also noted that while the Egyptians are conducting reconnaissance missions using drones, Israel's Ofek-5 spy satellite observes every inch of Egyptian territory. Israeli concerns are said to be compounded by the uncertainty over the health of 75-year-old Mubarak, who was forced to interrupt a speech last month when he became ill.

"Mubarak is committed to peace with Israel," one Israeli politician told the paper. "But it is not certain that his successor will be equally committed."

[SJackson]

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[petercooper]

Don't threaten to shoot them down, shoot them down.

[FreedomPoster]

If Egyptian UAVs are overflying Israel, why have they not been shot down? If they're not overflying Israel, what's the issue?

Something doesn't smell right with this one.

[sam_paine]

Classic. Israel has spy satellites, but the neolithic arabs merely have UAVs.

The problem is, satelites are benevolent reminders of vigilant borders, whereas UAVs are provocative potential hostile delivery methods for WMDs. Low-tech arabs lose again.

How can they be so ham-handed when they despise pigs?

[r9etb]

Something doesn't smell right with this one.

Israel can't just shoot them down, because to do so would provoke the Egyptians. That's the last thing they need, especially if Mubarak's days are numbered.

Also, Israel is narrow enough that Egypt could probably get good intel just by flying them very high, and along the border.

The article correctly notes, BTW, that Israel isn't "pure" in this sense, as they do have their own Ofek spy satellite that they can and do use to spy on Egypt, along with everybody else in the region.

[joesnuffy]

Let's just keep sending them US taxpayer dollars as gifts

[Zack Nguyen]

Where did they purchase the drones? Did they build them themselves?

[American in Israel]

Shoot them down when they land...
...in Cairo

[American in Israel]

Let's just keep sending them US taxpayer dollars as gifts

If Egypt can fly all the way through the demilitarized zone of the Sini that they got by treaty by promising to never fly through it, to spy on Israel, my suggestion is that Egypt indeed does not need any more American Tax dollars. The money sent to them is done under promises they obviously are not keeping.

[FreedomPoster]

OIC. So flying UAVs into Israeli airpspace isn't provacative, but shooting them down would be. Perfect, I think I see where you're coming from.

If the Egyptians are flying them high, inside their borders, then I don't want to hear any whining from the Israelis about it.

Spy satellites are another issue altogether. The Arabs are welcome to launch theirs to do the same.

This thing still smells.

[American in Israel]

Tel Aviv does not border Egypt. Flying military aircraft over another countries nuclear facilities is an act of war, nothing else.

My guess is that the recent illegal deployment of Saudi F15's in this same area is tied to this spy effort. The Jihad is getting ready to jump on Israel again.

Guess the Arabs need their arses kicked again. Tends to clear their thinking. But as the world has progressed to NBC warfare since the last Arab League attack on Israel, my guess is this next Arab war will end with mushrooms.

After 5 wars one would think the Arabs would have had enough, but hate is not in the brain but the heart.

My fear is the Arabs are going to release bio warfare agents that will spread around the globe. Bugs don't read maps, and if smallpox shows up in Tel Aviv, the world better sterilize Arabia before Arabia sterilizes the world.

[FreedomPoster]

>>If Egypt can fly all the way through the demilitarized zone of the Sinai

Now we're getting somewhere. Is the issue that the Egyptians are flying UAVs in a demilitarized zone? I guess maybe this is obvious to the newspaper's readers, but it is not obvious to those of us not intimately familiar with all the details of the region. The J-Post should have made this point more explicit, if this is the issue.

[LibKill]

Anything the Egyptians can put up, the IDF can, and should knock down.

[MinuteGal]

Just breaking on Fox.....some Egyption envoy to Israel was pelted with shoes by Pali crowd in Bethlehem. He became short of breath....just announced he suffered heart attack and is being treated in Israeli hospital. I didn't catch all the details.

The Egyptians apparantly have to learn the facts of life through incidents such as these.

Leni

[adam_az]

The article correctly notes, BTW, that Israel isn't "pure" in this sense, as they do have their own Ofek spy satellite that they can and do use to spy on Egypt, along with everybody else in the region.

Satellite overflight is not an invasion of airspace. Low flying dones are. Apples and oranges. A drone can double as a cruise missile. A satellite can not.

[geedee]

Where did they purchase the drones? Did they build them themselves?

Unfrickin' believable! After much research, I've discovered they just bought them right off the shelf!

Luckily, using current rubber-band technology, they're only able to stay aloft about eleven seconds.

[r9etb]

If you read the article, you'll see that the Israelis are complaining because the Egyptians are looking at their stuff. The fact is that the Israelis are looking at Egypt's stuff, too.

Note that the article does not really say that the Egyptians are violating Israeli airspace. Nor does it say that the drones are "low-flying."

If they are violating Israeli airspace, then the Israelis would be justified in shooting them down -- but the decision to do so would not be without consequence.

The Israelis have to think of it in the context of how the Egyptians will respond. It probably wouldn't be a friendly response, and the Egyptians have a lot of options for making the Israelis uncomfortable. Especially since Mubarak is ailing.

[toddst]

Satellite overflight is not an invasion of airspace. Low flying dones are. . . . A drone can double as a cruise missile. A satellite can not.

Excellent point. I suspect the next Egyptian drone headed toward Israeli airspace will be vaporized.

[adam_az]

Israel, r9etb wrote: If you read the article, you'll see that the Israelis are complaining because the Egyptians are looking at their stuff. The fact is that the Israelis are looking at Egypt's stuff, too.
Note that the article does not really say that the Egyptians are violating Israeli airspace. Nor does it say that the drones are "low-flying."

Are we performing an academic exercise of literary critique here, or using our brains, correlating information, and trying to understand what's happening? Your comment above is textual criticism, not critical thinking.

Nahal Sorek is near Jerusalem. The Egyptians could only observe it by overflying Israeli airspace, which is forbidden by Israel and Egypt's peace treaty. Similarly, Palmahim is south of Tel Aviv on the central plain, which is nowhere near the Egyptian border. You can't observe it from Egypt. You came to your conclusion by relying only on the information presented in this short article. Without knowlege of Israeli geography, I understand how that happened. JPOST didn't mention this, because most of their readers do know Israeli geography. They could have been more clear, but still, the only possible conclusion is that Egypt is overflying Israel with drones.

If they are violating Israeli airspace, then the Israelis would be justified in shooting them down -- but the decision to do so would not be without consequence.

Sure, the Egyptians could retaliate by... what? Downgrading diplomatic relations? More than they are already? Shooting down an Israeli drone? Oh right, Israel doesn't fly drones over Egypt. The Israelis have to think of it in the context of how the Egyptians will respond. It probably wouldn't be a friendly response, and the Egyptians have a lot of options for making the Israelis uncomfortable. Especially since Mubarak is ailing.

Funny, I would think that an ailing dictator would be less likely to get involved in military adventures. Can you explain your train of thought, please? What options do they have to make the Israelis "uncomfortable?" Ignore the terrorists digging their tunnels, some more?