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To: hunter112
"The point here is this: I'm hoping that conservatives do not bash Bush for not embracing Christianity any more publically than he already does. The people he needs to get to vote for him, and for fellow Republicans next year, are far more comfortable with someone who has a religion, and doesn't spend every waking moment trying to impose it on others than they are with an overly pious candidate."

Your verbiage sounds NYTimes-like ... that is a nice strawman you built up there, that religious people go around spending "every waking moment" - really, every waking moment? Not, say 1 hour of a day of hard evangelizing?

And the "trying to impose it on others", what activities might that be? The tired old lie that secularists shouldnt be inconvenienced by having to hear public prayer at ceremonies because they are in "danger" of being converted? If this is such a 'danger' you really arent secure in your beliefs, are you... The imposition I see these days are the secularists who are telling us we are deformed and mentally and morally deficient individuals if we dont conform to their moral vision of 'tolerance' for various forms of moral and cultural degeneration. Is that what you mean?

Of course people are more comfortable with people not telling them what to do, although that leaves the popularity of Hillary to be quite a mystery. But the fact is clear - it is the PC left and not the religious right who today are trying to use public policy to impose their views as "correct" and to make contrary views unlawful. Hence the insistence on denying free association to those who dont want to give equalt status to homosexuals.

"Bush is walking the fine line quite well, he's sending more than adequate signals to his base that he's philosophically aligned with them, while not sending danger signals to people who see the inside of a church even less often than Howard Dean does."

Signals, schmignals. What we need are good policies.

Like not letting our own culture decay further at the hands of the cultural marxists. Sometimes he does something good - like sign the Partial Birth abortion bill to save preborn humans from a brutal death; sometimes he lets the left win one, like when he let that odious Title IX rule stand, that is shutting down men's college sports and puts Federales in the busybody business in the name of feminist equality.

If anyone is "uncomfrotable" with those trying to keep the ship of civilization afloat, I suggest they jump overboard!


30 posted on 12/23/2003 10:23:41 AM PST by WOSG (The only thing that will defeat us is defeatism itself)
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To: WOSG
Your verbiage sounds NYTimes-like ... that is a nice strawman you built up there, that religious people go around spending "every waking moment" - really, every waking moment? Not, say 1 hour of a day of hard evangelizing?

You know those people who, when you meet them, one of the first things you know about them is that they are gay? Well, there are people that make sure that within the first 60 seconds I meet them, that they are religious. I guess that's who I'm talking about. Everybody knows people who they suspect hangs out with others only so they can convert them. Sort of like the life insurance salesman who joins every civic organization in town to sell his fellow members a lousy investment.

And the "trying to impose it on others", what activities might that be?

I'm not saying that the fear is rational, but it is real. No, listening to "under God" in the Pledge of Allegience, or passing by a menorah or nativity scene in a public park in December is not going to threaten most people's sense of who they are spiritually. The point I'm trying to make is that the liberal media can frame most conservative political positions in terms of religious conservatism, and we need to fight that. Rather than making abortion an issue of human civil rights, we have allowed the media to make it an issue of religious intolerance. If you think that was a one-shot deal, then wait until you see the media coverage of the gay marriage issue in next year's election campaign.

Signals, schmignals. What we need are good policies.

And we don't get them by electing Democrats. We get them by having the mushy middle not being afraid to vote for a Republican, especially if they never have before in their lives. My wife's family is a good example, they believe in most all the issues that Republicans hold dear, yet every time Republicans are on the TV, they bash them. They don't connect the Rats they elect with the policies they hate. One part of it is the old saw that "Republicans are for the rich", and the other part is the religious thing. Few people in my wife's family are churchgoing, and they fear a theocracy. It may be an irrational fear, but its there.

If anyone is "uncomfrotable" with those trying to keep the ship of civilization afloat, I suggest they jump overboard!

If that means jumping off the ship and voting for an extremist third party candidate who is "100% right", then you'll have to swim without me. I'm going to try to trim the sails to tack closer towards the other shore. Let the liberals split their votes and lose, like they did with Nader in 2000.

35 posted on 12/23/2003 10:56:47 AM PST by hunter112
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