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Time Trip - questions and answers (How widely accepted is the theory that we can travel in time?)
BBC ^ | Friday, December 26, 2003 | BBC

Posted on 12/25/2003 8:12:15 PM PST by Momaw Nadon

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FYI and discussion
1 posted on 12/25/2003 8:12:17 PM PST by Momaw Nadon
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To: Momaw Nadon
The only thing I can think of would be to find a way to travel faster than the speed of light with a powerful telescope and look back on the earth as it was in the past. Other than that I would say its impossible, but what do I know im just a factory worker.
2 posted on 12/25/2003 8:16:31 PM PST by Husker24
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To: Husker24
I'll have to replay my copy of "The Time Machine" (2002, starring Guy Pearce and directed by H.G. Wells' grandson.)
3 posted on 12/25/2003 8:24:19 PM PST by Ciexyz
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To: Momaw Nadon
I already posted this article tomorrow.
4 posted on 12/25/2003 8:29:37 PM PST by WhatWouldReaganDo
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To: Husker24
What if you flew in a giant circle and returned to Earth? Then you wouldn't need the telescope.

For the telescope thingy, you could just send them up in various positions to catch the light as it went by. Different distances would be different times.

But I'm just a factory worker too....

Merry Christmas

5 posted on 12/25/2003 8:29:48 PM PST by Wingy
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To: Momaw Nadon
If it's possible to build a machine to travel back in time, then where are the time-travelers from the future? Maybe they're investing in the stock market.
6 posted on 12/25/2003 8:30:15 PM PST by gitmo (Who is John Galt?)
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To: Momaw Nadon
This is well illustrated in the film Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure.

'Glad to see the article referenced well-noted technical sources....

7 posted on 12/25/2003 8:30:22 PM PST by mikrofon
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To: WhatWouldReaganDo
I already posted this article tomorrow.

LOL and I've already read it...

8 posted on 12/25/2003 8:34:04 PM PST by Drango (Democratic fundraising....If PBS won't do it, who will?)
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To: Momaw Nadon
Time is only linear in the observer's plane of reference. To travel to alternate times, you must change refernce planes - whether through quantum changes (physical) or through the learned skills of the yogi (mental). Remote viewing is an example of mental time travel (in which you cannot interact with the past, merely view it), and there are some references to humans who have the capability to co-locate or teleport through space/time.
9 posted on 12/25/2003 8:36:09 PM PST by 11B3 (Liberalism is merely another form of mental retardation.)
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If time travel is possible, then it already exists. Once it is developed in any time period, past, present or future, it is available to all time periods via the time travelers. It is not time-dependent.
10 posted on 12/25/2003 8:38:01 PM PST by Consort
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To: Momaw Nadon
"According to this theory, time runs slower for a moving person than for someone who is stationary."

ie. . .the 'physics of boredom' or the 'time flies' theory; when you are busy. . .

11 posted on 12/25/2003 8:42:30 PM PST by cricket
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To: gitmo
"If it's possible to build a machine to travel back in time, then where are the time-travelers from the future?"

Maybe they don't want to 'come back'...

12 posted on 12/25/2003 8:45:39 PM PST by cricket
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To: Momaw Nadon
I know nothin' about this stuff. But I sure hope somebody figures it out soon. My Dad died when I was 7. I'm 58 now. I would cherish a day visiting with him. There are so many questions I'd like to ask.

On the other side of the spectrum. Traveling at warp speed is something I am keenly interested in. I currently have a 2 hr commute and it just sounds so tempting to walk out the front door and in the blink of an eye to have arrived at my destination.

13 posted on 12/25/2003 8:51:00 PM PST by Iowa Granny
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To: Quix; All
If time travel were possible, we would see abnormalities at catasrophic events (9/11, Pearl Harbor, Nagasaki -although at a distance ;) - etc.).

Personally, I don't believe in the barrier of light. I believe our understanding of physics has not yet reached a point where we can control how we manipulate matter when approaching (or passing) the sped of light.

As far as the "time machine" inventions, well, whose to know if one hasn't been invested in some far off future and not already been used? None of us here would KNOW if world event's were altered by a future presence. It would all seem like history as normal for us.

14 posted on 12/25/2003 8:53:03 PM PST by Michael Barnes
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To: Momaw Nadon
Wow are these guys stupid, I just got through traveling in time. Geez, some people are absolutely clueless.
15 posted on 12/25/2003 8:59:34 PM PST by BJungNan
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To: Momaw Nadon
Time travel is no big deal.

I've been doing it for a little over 56 years now, just hope I can keep going.

16 posted on 12/25/2003 9:05:05 PM PST by fella
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To: Momaw Nadon
Bookmarked for later.
17 posted on 12/25/2003 9:08:07 PM PST by Old Professer
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To: Consort
If time travel is possible, then it already exists. Once it is developed in any time period, past, present or future, it is available to all time periods via the time travelers. It is not time-dependent.

Not necessarily. One theoretical type of time travel only works if you have a "receiving station" operating in the "destination" timeframe. So from any point in the future you'd be able to travel back into time only as far as the first invention of time travel, but no further.

18 posted on 12/25/2003 9:08:56 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: fella
Time travel is no big deal.

I've been doing it for a little over 56 years now, just hope I can keep going.

Same here. Every now and then when I've had one too many I find myself reliving my life over and over.

19 posted on 12/25/2003 9:11:03 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Momaw Nadon
If time machines are possible, why haven’t we built one?

I think a better question might be: if time travel is possible, then why haven't we been visited from the future yet?

20 posted on 12/25/2003 9:18:19 PM PST by Koblenz (There's usually a free market solution)
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To: Momaw Nadon
Science fiction writer Larry Niven pointed out an interesting concept: Time travel is "unstable".

For example, if someone invents a working method of time travel on January 1, 2004, then there will be lots and lots of time travelers going back to visit past years prior to 2004.

With all the changes they'd inevitably make to the past, sooner or later someone is going to end up making a change that will alter January 1, 2004 enough that time travel *doesn't* get invented. For example, they might accidentally interfere with the birth, life or ancestry of the inventor, or start events in motion that sent him into a career in painting rather than physics, or they might interfere with earlier inventions which the time machine used as parts, or... Any number of things.

So eventually the past will happen to be altered in a way that "uninvents" the time machine that would have been built on 1/1/04, and *poof*, no time travel after all.

Then in the new timeline, someone else will eventually invent the time machine on some other date -- until *it* gets "uninvented" by people twiddling with the past.

Rinse, repeat.

So Niven's conclusion is that even if time travel into the past is possible, it'll keep preventing itself from being invented (for long, anyway).

On a similar note, I saw a trailer for an upcoming film ("The Butterfly Effect") which seems to be based on a somewhat related idea. A guy figures out how to travel into the past by sheer concentration, and he tries to prevent his dead girlfriend's death in the past. But every time he goes back and makes a change, the "ripples" of unintended consequences keep making the big picture even worse... It looks like a good film.

21 posted on 12/25/2003 9:20:25 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Iowa Granny
I currently have a 2 hr commute and it just sounds so tempting to walk out the front door and in the blink of an eye to have arrived at my destination.

I'd be happy if they would just fast-forward to the Jetsons. Wouldn't it be great to fly to work everyday in your own personal car plane?

22 posted on 12/25/2003 9:20:39 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Consort
Makes me think of the movie Slaughterhouse-Five. Anybody heard where Paul Lezaro is?
23 posted on 12/25/2003 9:20:56 PM PST by greydog
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To: Momaw Nadon
The 5th dimension. The realm where time does not exist. the entire universe from creation to judgment in a twinkling of the eye.
24 posted on 12/25/2003 9:23:26 PM PST by gdc61
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To: gdc61
This article seemed very good until:
"This is well illustrated in the film Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure."
25 posted on 12/25/2003 9:34:17 PM PST by baltodog (When you're hanging from a hook, you gotta' get a bigger boat, or something like that.)
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To: gitmo
Traveling back in time could probably be ruled impossible because you are not only traveling back in time, you are traveling back in space. If you are in cleveland right now, and want to visit cleveland 100 years ago today, you have to take the following differences in position into account:

Rotation of the earth.
Earth revolving around the sun.
Our solar system moving around in the milky way galaxy.
The milky way galaxy continually moving away from the center of the universe.

So basically, if you are in cleveland right now and zap yourself back 100 years, you'll have to wait 100 years for the earth to catch up with you, because it's a loooooooooooooooong way away.

Ad to this conservation of matter and conservation of energy, and you cannot travel in time without breaking those two laws. Basically, if I do manage to drop back into the same spot cleveland was in 100 years ago, I have instantly added a whole bunch of matter to the universe as it existed then. And taken a whole lot of matter out of our present day universe. Now, the present day might be easy by converting myself to energy, but finding a way to convert energy out of thin air into matter 100 years ago is going to be a doozy of a problem.
26 posted on 12/25/2003 9:34:41 PM PST by flashbunny (The constitution doesn't protect only the things you approve of.)
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To: baltodog
Actually, bill and ted's excellent adventure does show some good representation of time travel actions and consequences, but absolutely nothing like he commented on.
27 posted on 12/25/2003 9:43:21 PM PST by flashbunny (The constitution doesn't protect only the things you approve of.)
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To: Momaw Nadon
" . . . instantaneously turning yourself into a tomato. . ."

Haven't tried that yet.

Once tried to boil an egg using only the power of thought.

After focusing for several hours I did manage to get the egg up to room temperature.

28 posted on 12/25/2003 9:48:30 PM PST by BenLurkin (Socialism is Slavery)
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To: Momaw Nadon
I can almost see the outside of Plato's cave on this one. I was going to post something in an attempt to be funny but post 13 killed that. It speaks to time, loss, regret, love, life, and hope.
I approach time different. Time is our concept of being. It doesn't really exist. There once was no space, therefore there was no time. The universe is expanding, therefore it isn't infinite. There is something outside of space. So there is something outside of time. The whole existence of matter, dark matter, super strings, mass distribution of the universe (visible so far) speaks to an analogy of the smoke left after a fourth of july firework. It was bright and shiney, now it is just a memory.
I think that we are on one little planet, not yet convinced that we should venture out into the neighborhood, much less the great beyond. Time travel? I would just guess that someday post 13 will get the chance to talk with her dad, get a hug, and catch up.
Time? not too worried about it. The human mind and soul really aren't connected with time. Time is just something we use to tell when dinner is ready.
29 posted on 12/25/2003 9:48:45 PM PST by IrishCatholic
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To: Momaw Nadon
I never understood the 'grandmother paradox'. I see no reason that one couldn't go back and affect history to the degree of eliminating your own existence. The real question would be, would you actually cease to exist? I tend to think no. I believe one would make oneself an 'anomoly'. The key is the past that created you would not be altered, only the past when you came back.
30 posted on 12/25/2003 9:54:00 PM PST by I_dmc
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To: Husker24
From what I recall of "The Philadelphia Experiment", it invovled time travel, which wasn't a desired result. It also involved spatial displacement, which may have been coincident with time travel.
31 posted on 12/25/2003 9:55:47 PM PST by I_dmc
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To: Momaw Nadon
As early as tomorrow, Coast to Coast show host George Noory plans a time travel experiment under the supervision of physicist and hypnotherapist, Dr. Irving Glotch.

"George has submitted two time periods he is interested in traveling back to: Roswell, NM July 1947 and to the mid-6th century to see if an asteroid hit caused the Dark Ages."
32 posted on 12/25/2003 9:58:17 PM PST by Lucy Lake
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To: 11B3
This is a disturbing thing to experience. I've been in other places in dreams, only to discover that what happened there, in my dream, did, in fact, happen there.
33 posted on 12/25/2003 10:00:52 PM PST by I_dmc
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To: I_dmc
I see no reason that one couldn't go back and affect history to the degree of eliminating your own existence.

The original Star Trek did an excellent episode on that possibility, which is anyone who traveled back in time could not alter any events without running the risk of affecting their own existence.

It might explain why if there is in fact those from the far future who managed to go back have done nothing to prevent a Hitler or a Stalin.

34 posted on 12/25/2003 10:02:41 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: IrishCatholic
I was thinking about Plato's Cave as well. It is possible to see the past but not interact with it.
35 posted on 12/25/2003 10:06:31 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest; IrishCatholic
The Squire of Gothos episode. Man I am a NERD!
36 posted on 12/25/2003 10:08:32 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: IrishCatholic
Mankind's greatest weakness is the necessity to define things in order to understand them. There is no space, there is no time, no dark matter, etc, etc. All those things are man's attempts to define what he cannot understand, in a way so that he may understand. "Seeing isn't believing, believing is seeing".
37 posted on 12/25/2003 10:09:10 PM PST by I_dmc
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To: Momaw Nadon
bump
38 posted on 12/25/2003 10:09:44 PM PST by Captain Beyond (The Hammer of the gods! (Just a cool line from a Led Zep song))
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To: gitmo
If it's possible to build a machine to travel back in time, then where are the time-travelers from the future? Maybe they're investing in the stock market.

If it's possible, they could be here. Or it's possible that in the grand scheme of things, this part of history is not significant enough to warrant any attention by historians. Now I could buy that last part. I've spent 20 years trying to pretend the 1970's never happened. ;)

39 posted on 12/25/2003 10:09:52 PM PST by Orangedog (Remain calm...all is well! [/sarcasm])
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To: Orangedog
Quick. Does anyone actually remember the 1970's? Maybe they didn't happen.
40 posted on 12/25/2003 10:12:33 PM PST by I_dmc
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To: Momaw Nadon
"Hawking proposed a Chronology Protection Conjecture which says that the laws of physics disallow time machines. Basically, such scientists argue that nature will conspire to prevent the building of a time machine - one possibility is that runaway surges in quantum energy would generate massive gravitational fields and turn any time machine into mush"

A sentient universse? Or G-d?
41 posted on 12/25/2003 10:13:58 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: Ciexyz
Just whatever you do....DON'T play it BACKWARDS !

42 posted on 12/25/2003 10:15:34 PM PST by PoorMuttly ("Is whitefish supposed to make a noise?" - Felix Muttly)
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To: I_dmc
The limits of reductionism, the analytic scalpel endlessly naming smaller parts.

Everything is a manifestation of energy, so in a holistic way there is no objectivity or otherness.
43 posted on 12/25/2003 10:16:17 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: Momaw Nadon
(How widely accepted is the theory that we can travel in time?)

I time travel all the time--but just one way, and I keep up with the flow of traffic.
44 posted on 12/25/2003 10:16:59 PM PST by aruanan
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To: Koblenz
I think a better question might be: if time travel is possible, then why haven't we been visited from the future yet?

How can you be sure we haven't been visited? It's not like a time traveller would walk up to you and say "Hi, I'm from the future!" Society has a habbit of either laughing at or locking up and medicating people who do things like that.

45 posted on 12/25/2003 10:18:53 PM PST by Orangedog (Remain calm...all is well! [/sarcasm])
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To: ffusco
The Squire of Gothos episode.

Great episode with General Trelane.

The one I'm thinking of is "The City On the Edge Of Forever" where Kirk falls in love with a pacifist.

46 posted on 12/25/2003 10:20:42 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
I love vintage Trek!
47 posted on 12/25/2003 10:23:10 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: ffusco
The below is an example of that old high school saying, "The stars are matter. We are matter. It don't matter." Cute, but lame.

Everything is a manifestation of energy, so in a holistic way there is no objectivity or otherness.

Unless otherness doesn't depend on energy, in the same way that a scalpel and a retractor are both surgical steel but neither is the other and both are objectively different. A radio wave emitted by a star and a radio wave modulated by a radio station are both emitted radio waves but they are both objectively and subjectively different. It's their differences, not their similarities, that make the difference.
48 posted on 12/25/2003 10:25:16 PM PST by aruanan
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To: ffusco
I love vintage Trek!

Excellent show, never been anything like it before or since.

49 posted on 12/25/2003 10:26:21 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: WhatWouldReaganDo
I poste this reply yesterday.
50 posted on 12/25/2003 10:26:42 PM PST by razorback-bert
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