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Time Trip - questions and answers (How widely accepted is the theory that we can travel in time?)
BBC ^ | Friday, December 26, 2003 | BBC

Posted on 12/25/2003 8:12:15 PM PST by Momaw Nadon

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To: razorback-bert
Oops, I left the d back in time.
51 posted on 12/25/2003 10:28:09 PM PST by razorback-bert
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
Re your list of 100 best albums:

Joy Division Unkown Pleasures
52 posted on 12/25/2003 10:31:52 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: Momaw Nadon
Yesterday is a figment of you're mind, tomorrow is too..
Carpe Diem..."Sieze the day"..
53 posted on 12/25/2003 10:34:04 PM PST by hosepipe
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To: ffusco
Joy Division Unkown Pleasures

Don't have that one but I'll look into it. I'm always in the market for good music.

54 posted on 12/25/2003 10:36:23 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: aruanan
Phililosophically speaking objectivity is a form of subjectivity.
55 posted on 12/25/2003 10:37:34 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: Momaw Nadon
This article was already posted 300 years from now.
56 posted on 12/25/2003 10:38:42 PM PST by Imal (Season greeting from Singapore-la.)
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To: Ichneumon
With all the changes they'd inevitably make to the past, sooner or later someone is going to end up making a change that will alter January 1, 2004 enough that time travel *doesn't* get invented.

There are a lot of theories on time travel that gets around temporal paradox issues. None of them are complete, but they are based on our current understanding of quantum physics.

One theory is that traveling back in time would result in the traveler ending up in a parallel universe where everything appears to be the past, but is really the past in another universe that is very close to the one he left and when he returned, it would be back to his original universe. That way nothing he did in "the past" would effect his future.

Another theory is hard to get your mind around. That part of quantum theory is that cause and effect would get turned on it's head regarding time travel. According to some theorists, the laws of cause and effect would become reversed, so that your actions in the future would influence the your actions in the past. I've been trying to make sense of that one for a while. The problem is that we are corporial in nature. Our understanding of the universe is that there is a beginning, a middle and an end, in that order. For us to understand how space and time operate on a grand scale is like trying to explain three dimentional space to someone who only exists in a two dimensional world. All they can understand is right and left and would not be able to understand the concept of up and down.

57 posted on 12/25/2003 10:40:05 PM PST by Orangedog (Remain calm...all is well! [/sarcasm])
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To: Momaw Nadon
O.K....Muttly have string and tomato.

Now what.
58 posted on 12/25/2003 10:42:02 PM PST by PoorMuttly ("Is whitefish supposed to make a noise?" - Felix Muttly)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
Edith Keeler played by Joan Collins.
You thought you were a nerd.
What was the name of Captian Pike's hores??
Now you are a NERD.
59 posted on 12/25/2003 10:52:25 PM PST by calljack (Sometimes your worst nightmare is just a start.)
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To: calljack
As long as you don't know the combination to the safe in Kirk's quarters, there is still hope for you. ;)
60 posted on 12/25/2003 10:57:19 PM PST by Orangedog (Remain calm...all is well! [/sarcasm])
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To: calljack
Tango??


61 posted on 12/25/2003 11:02:30 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Orangedog
What was the name of Pike's horse and the combo to Kirk's safe? I did not read that in any Starfleet Technical Manauals!
62 posted on 12/25/2003 11:03:39 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: calljack
Now your turn:

What type of rays were responsible for Captain Pike's condition ?

63 posted on 12/25/2003 11:11:58 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
trick question, wasn't it a phaser coolant or engineering mishap. Or was it Bertold rays?
64 posted on 12/25/2003 11:19:48 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: ffusco
I think it was delta rays.
65 posted on 12/25/2003 11:25:11 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Momaw Nadon
Just saw the preview of a new movie, The Butterfly Effect. In the movie Ashton Kutcher goes back in time to prevent his girlfriend from ruining her life. The flaw in the movie: if time travel existed, parents would already have gone back in time to prevent their daughters from ruining their lives by preventing them from ever meeting Ashton Kutcher (and some children would have done the same for their mothers). So the premise of the film is logically impossible.

Time travel has such facination, though, that whether or not we will in fact be able to do it, there will be a virtual reality time travel and tourism business in the future. You might indeed "wake up" in the 18th century, or back in high school or on Mars, and find that it was a trip your family bought for you. Here's hoping their check cleared for the return trip ...

66 posted on 12/25/2003 11:46:34 PM PST by x
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To: Koblenz
I have a theory about that. What if we have had time travellers from the future. And I don't mean an alien civilization. Take for a minute that all folklore and tall tales have in them a tiny grain of truth someplace within the story. Then think for a minute about mythology... A specific example (this came from a story I read once and would like to give credit to the author, so If any of you know who wrote it please let me know) A person well versed in the mythos of a certain culture could feasibly call themselves, for example, Thor...He carries a pistol, or as he refers to it a "hammer" knowing that this would likely be accepted. OK, throw in a few events where said hammer is fired BANG (flash) and its "returned" to his hand. and enemy drops dead before the warrior....legend of mjolnir is born and our time traveller has just created the very legend he is using as a cover.

Ok Im done with the sci-fi thing. Its far too late for this stuff.

Oh and as an added note, if a time traveller altered something in the past I believe we in the present would never know, It would be our known history. To us it never existed any other way
67 posted on 12/25/2003 11:55:11 PM PST by BudgieRamone (Unapologetically Male: I eat, sleep, shoot, drink, use power tools, and water my herbs & orchids :))
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To: cricket
"Maybe they don't want to 'come back'...

This being Christmas and all, I would most certainly want to go back and talk to Jesus Christ. In my mind he has allot of splainin to do. Just think of the possibilities!

68 posted on 12/26/2003 12:09:12 AM PST by Desron13
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To: Momaw Nadon
Bump

I'll read this yesterday

69 posted on 12/26/2003 12:15:57 AM PST by fso301
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To: BudgieRamone
Oh and as an added note, if a time traveller altered something in the past I believe we in the present would never know, It would be our known history. To us it
never existed any other way



Hmm.... that is the crux of the issue. Can the ALTERED past
being ALREADY PAST relative to our local space-time dimension, have any effect whatsoever on us in the present?
Would there be any effect on our present time domain, if someone went into the past and changed something?

It is ALREADY past...... is it not?
Or does the EXPIRED past STILL have the capability of influencing the ongoing present linked to the future???

70 posted on 12/26/2003 12:37:44 AM PST by birg
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To: Ichneumon
I was about to post Niven's theory on Time Travel, but I see you beat me to it.

I believe he phrased it thus (paraphrased): "If it is possible to build a time machine that allows travel into the past, and it is also possible to alter the past, then the time machine will never be invented."

I find it impossible to make a consistent argument against his logic. He's right. Eventually, someone would go back in the past and alter history in such a way that the time machine is never invented, and once that happens, it can never be altered again. We'd be "stuck" in that universe where time-travel was not technically impossible but human history had been aligned in such a way that no one ever actually discovers how to do it.

What I find most disconcerting about that is that the simplest and most probable way that an altered history could result in a future where time travel is never invented is a history where the human race, prior to reaching a level of technology where the time machine's invention is possible, is completely wiped out.

Qwinn
71 posted on 12/26/2003 2:42:57 AM PST by Qwinn
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To: Ichneumon
Something else did just occur to me though. There is one possible method of time travel that could alter the past that could still exist - in our future.

I can't quite recall where I read it, but the gist of the idea was that, when time travel was invented, it required the existence of a time machine to already exist at that point in time.

So, for example, if the time machine is invented in 2008, then future generations living in 3508 could go back in time as far as 2008. The "past" time machine already has to exist in order to provide a destination for the "future" time machine to operate on.

Not that wacky an idea. I wouldn't be surprised at all if teleportation was possible but -required- a receiver on the other side. This would be essentially the same idea.

In that scenario, one could never go back into the past "beyond" the first invention of the time machine, so one could never "undo" it's invention altogether. But that theory does generally mean that history up until this point is pretty much "written in stone".

Qwinn

72 posted on 12/26/2003 2:49:18 AM PST by Qwinn
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To: BudgieRamone
You're driving me crazy! I remember that story but I can't remember the author or title.

Arrrghhhhhhhhh!

73 posted on 12/26/2003 7:35:02 AM PST by balrog666 (Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
Trek, bah. Everyone knows Star Trek is for little girls and old ladies. If you want the best television program of all time, it would have to be "Doctor Who."

As for the whole time travel thing, all we need is a Tardis.
74 posted on 12/26/2003 7:41:30 AM PST by exile (Exile - Helen Thomas tried to lure me into her Gingerbread House.)
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To: exile
Trek, bah. Everyone knows Star Trek is for little girls and old ladies.

Well I dare you to say that to Spock... one squeeze to the neck and you're out cold lol.

If you want the best television program of all time, it would have to be "Doctor Who."

Yes I've caught that on PBS a few times; not bad but there's nothing like Kirk, Spock and Bones.

75 posted on 12/26/2003 9:44:29 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Momaw Nadon
Professor Richard Gott is right and has been amusing colleagues for decades with this. Seems it is possible without violating laws of physics, but it would be well to send graduate students on the time trip rather than the prof himself.
76 posted on 12/26/2003 9:48:27 AM PST by RightWhale (Close your tag lines)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
... but there's nothing like Kirk, Spock and Bones.

I take you have yet to see "Farscape" in reruns?

And, perhaps, you didn't like "Babylon 5"? Or "Lexx"?

77 posted on 12/26/2003 10:03:49 AM PST by balrog666 (Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.)
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To: balrog666
I think it was "The Lightning Road" by Dean R. Koontz
78 posted on 12/26/2003 10:14:12 AM PST by thrcanbonly1 (Dept of Homeland Security, sponsored by the same folks who were responsible for Waco &Ruby Ridge)
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To: Drango
"I already posted this article tomorrow.

LOL and I've already read it..."

But it hasn't been written yet!

79 posted on 12/26/2003 10:15:53 AM PST by bk1000 (put him back in the spider hole)
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To: balrog666
There's a ton of good sci-fi shows, but the older ones like Star Trek and The Twilight Zone didn't have the kind of technology and gadgetry added in like they do today.

The result was to keep them interesting writers were forced to put more effort into dialogue and scripts. That's why I was not impressed with Star Trek: The Next Generation or the rest of them because so many of the plots were remakes of the original, only fancier.

80 posted on 12/26/2003 10:16:17 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
Nothing beats the cold war Trek. No counselors on board, no PC crap, no huge moral dilemmas at every turn.
81 posted on 12/26/2003 10:53:33 AM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: Drango
I already posted this article tomorrow.
LOL and I've already read it...

my time machine must be stuck I keep seeing the same thing over and over again.
maybe if I kick it......wait I just did that ........oh no I'm stuck in the middle

82 posted on 12/26/2003 11:00:03 AM PST by Gone_Postal
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To: ffusco
Nothing beats the cold war Trek. No counselors on board, no PC crap, no huge moral dilemmas at every turn.

And the stories and acting were excellent.

83 posted on 12/26/2003 11:04:03 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: flashbunny
The Law of conservation of mass and energy has not been broken...on a universal level energy and mass are neither created nor destroyed...you may have moved it about, but you have not created anything...
84 posted on 01/09/2004 6:56:10 AM PST by Elendil
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To: gitmo
Dean Koontz wrote a novel some years back called LIGHTNING. Basically, the story was that the NAZIs discovered time travel. But due to certain unknown laws, you could travel back in time but only forward. One of the scientists that enabled the project to work, travels forward to ensure the survivial at different times of a certain female. Interesting concept.
85 posted on 01/09/2004 7:15:23 AM PST by 7thson (I think it takes a big dog to weigh a 100 pounds.)
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To: greydog
"Anybody heard where Paul Lezaro is?"

He's scheduled to be in Philadelphia for the Packers game.

86 posted on 01/09/2004 7:26:51 AM PST by truthandjustice1
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
This is such a cool thread. So many possibilities from so many stories that we have read and seen.

The Back To The Future movies were great. It discussed alternate time lines, alternate worlds. The Terminator, which at first seemed like just an action flick, was actually a great science fiction story discussing time travel. The Quantam Leap television series was very good and often poignant. I remember reading a sci-fi story - I believe by Joseph W. Campbell - that discussed looking into time. But the further ahead you looked the blurrier it got because of the different things that could happen from simple yes/no decisions. I read another sci-fi story years ago called Night Eyes. It seemed to be about alien abductions but what it turned out to be was that the 'aliens' were actually humans from the far future. They 'abducted' people from the same family line in order to stop an event that evolved them into the 'grays.' Does anyone remember the television program The Time Travelers from the sixties?

87 posted on 01/09/2004 7:30:33 AM PST by 7thson (I think it takes a big dog to weigh a 100 pounds.)
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To: Momaw Nadon
Interesting post bump to the top.

88 posted on 01/09/2004 7:37:37 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost
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To: Qwinn
As long as we are talking about time travel, who remembers the Fantastic Four. Remember in the beginning of the comic, Doctor Doom invented a time machine. Then, in a later issue, he met the Emporer Kang. Kang explained to him that in the far future, he discovered a time machine in the ruins of a building that belonged to an ancestor of his from the past. Kang and Doom always thought they were either one and the same or related. This theory went on for several years until John Byrne did an excellent story concerning Reed Richards and his dad. He stated that he was missing parts of his memory after an encounter with some being and he and his family went to his dad's old place. Where they discovered a time machine that his dad invented years before Doom invented his. They went into a alternate future where Reed's dad was the ruler but basically being led by the nose of a power hungry wife. When they cleared all that up and went back to their past, the story continued with many centuries later, the future relative of Reed's dad in that alternate future discovers the time machine that Reed's dad invented and used it to become Kang. So, instead of Kang being connected to Doctor Doom, he is actually future kin of Reed Richards.
89 posted on 01/09/2004 7:46:52 AM PST by 7thson (I think it takes a big dog to weigh a 100 pounds.)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
"And the stories and acting were excellent"

Almost as good as the special effects? :)

The big styrofoam rocks and other shortcomings, and the sorta old-fashioned look of old Trek used to bother me, although I loved it when I was younger, after getting used to the polished look of ST:TNG. Now when I watch the old trek, though, there just seems to be something much more "raw" about it. Maybe it's just because it's been so long since I've seen a lot of the old episodes, and I've seen too many of the ST:TNG episodes too many times.
90 posted on 01/09/2004 7:47:33 AM PST by -YYZ-
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To: 7thson
Does anyone remember the television program The Time Travelers from the sixties?

There was also another one I remember... The Time Tunnel. What a great show that was, but it was only on a year or so. And I believe Lost in Space did a time travel episode or two.

There's something about those old 60's shows that are unlike anything ever done since.

91 posted on 01/09/2004 1:34:41 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: -YYZ-
Now when I watch the old trek, though, there just seems to be something much more "raw" about it. Maybe it's just because it's been so long since I've seen a lot of the old episodes, and I've seen too many of the ST:TNG episodes too many times.

Have to agree with you there, the special effects were cheesy, even for the late 60s making the show dated. But that's what almost draws me to it more than anything, the simplicity of it combined with well-written stories.

The sci-fi shows of today have gone too far the other way for my tastes and now it's spectacular effects with boring, recycled scripts.

92 posted on 01/09/2004 1:43:42 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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