How Illegal Aliens are Bankrupting and Disenfranchising the American Middle and Working Classes

A Different Drummer/Middle American News ^ | December, 2003 | Nicholas Stix

[AlBondigas]

Wow, thanks ! I saved that link as a fav.
It even had maricon listed.

[Axenolith]

Yes, the Pro-Illegals are that stupid, or worse, evil. Whether or not people like it, or can drag themselves from denial long enought to deal with the reality, we are going to get dragged kicking and screaming into a world where American labor is more on-par with the rest of the worlds. Since the vast majority of that labor market is making somewhere between US $0.25 to $2.00/hour it will eventually come home to roost here.

It wouldn't be so bad if we had some means of simultaneously reducing the costs that are currently burdening the $7.25+ American worker (so that a reduction in wages wouldn't lead to a rapidly declining standard of living) but that is just NOT going to happen because it will involve a massive reduction in social largess and, consequently, the reelection of politicians.

[The Raven]

Hong Kong doesn't have socialism.....and the mainland's population vote with their feet and leave the worker's paradise.

[Polybius]

And what would you call us if the illegals were lily-white Swedes, doing the same exact thing to the American taxpayers? Norsists?

we used to have many names for lily-white Irish immigrants in the 19th century... I'm sure I'll think of something.

Like most illegal immigration apologists, gawd, you deliberately erase the distinction between legal immigrants of the 19th and 20th Centuries and the illegal aliens flooding across our borders right now.

Go to Mexico, as a non-Mexican citizen, and try to set up housekeeping and get a job in violation of Mexican immigration laws and see how far you get before Mexican law falls on your head like a ton of bricks.

[Axenolith]

I'm talking about unconditional, free immigration for all able-bodied persons without a criminal record. everyone has a right to the American Dream.

And you can have that, AFAIC, as long as it doesn't include stealing from me to provide >insert whatever< for the immigrants. The American Dream in my book does not include free medical, dental, food stamps, power subsidies, extra security etc... to the tune of close to 50%, from the sweat of MY brow. Since pigs will fly the day that your unconditional immigration comes without those encumberances you might not want to count me as a supporter yet...

[Cyropaedia]

So,they believed immigration was an actual "right"? Uh, I don't think so pal. Here are some writings from Mr. Thomas Jefferson on the immigrants coming to his country at the time. He obviously had qualms about immigration and that some immigrants were preferable to others :

Some selected quotes:

"[Is] rapid population [growth] by as great importations of foreigners as possible... founded in good policy?... They will bring with them the principles of the governments they leave, imbibed in their early youth; or, if able to throw them off, it will be in exchange for an unbounded licentiousness, passing, as is usual, from one extreme to another. It would be a miracle were they to stop precisely at the point of temperate liberty. These principles, with their language, they will transmit to their children. In proportion to their number, they will share with us the legislation. They will infuse into it their spirit, warp and bias its direction, and render it a heterogeneous, incoherent, distracted mass... If they come of themselves, they are entitled to all the rights of citizenship: but I doubt the expediency of inviting them by extraordinary encouragements." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.VIII, 1782. ME 2:118

"Although as to other foreigners it is thought better to discourage their settling together in large masses, wherein, as in our German settlements, they preserve for a long time their own languages, habits, and principles of government, and that they should distribute themselves sparsely among the natives for quicker amalgamation, yet English emigrants are without this inconvenience. They differ from us little but in their principles of government, and most of those (merchants excepted) who come here, are sufficiently disposed to adopt ours." --Thomas Jefferson to George Flower, 1817. ME 15:140

Mr. Jefferson was NOT an open borders idiot, contrary to what you may think.

BTW, Even the the paragon of 20th Century Libertarianism, Ludwig Von Mises was against a country actually having an open borders immigration policy.

[Axenolith]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on some conversations I've had with mining principles, those property ownership laws have been reformed recently...

[Dante3]

Illegal aliens are criminals. Period. They flaunt their contempt for our laws. Many of them pose a threat to our national security and commit horrible crimes.

Also, we already have too many people -- we certainly do not need more criminals. Our historic battle fields are being destroyed, traffic jams growing, etc. In the D.C.-Northern Virginia-Maryland, for example, thousands of illegals have formed violent gangs, many involved in home invasion.

And lets not forget the illegal aliens sociopathic sense of entitlement.

There is absolutely no benefit for this country to let illegal aliens remain. They should be and can easily be deported.

[AlBondigas]

While an immigrant Gringo can't work (save being a proprietor or artiste) in Mexico....how 'bout the requirement that a prospective immigrant resident prove a monthly income of $1200(?) in order to reside ?

Kinda limits Mexico's immigration policy to well heeled retirees.

[FreedomSurge]

"ain't talking about amnesty. I'm talking about unconditional, free immigration for all able-bodied persons without a criminal record. everyone has a right to the American Dream"

Based on your criteria, why shouldn't we bring in 300 million untouchables from India, 100 million Banglideshis, 400 million Chinese, and 400 million from the continent of Africa?

[B4Ranch]

"legalize them. turn them into enfranchised, tax-paying citizens instead of spreading this scare-mongering that borders on racism."

You would proudly spit in the face of every foreigner who is obeying the immigration laws in their attempt to come to America. Also, you would encourage more illegal immigration with your rancid idea.

[hocndoc]

""Bootin' the illegals (and the perks they get FREE), will put a dent in our 'welfare state'.""

You are so right. Look at the health care parameters, the education and housing measurements, and pollution, housing and transportation along the Valley.

We must enforce immigration laws or we are/ become responsible (both morally and financially) for the way children live when their parents sneak in and hide from the system.

I do not believe that I should take the brunt of the illegal actions of others, and I expect my government to protect me.

[AlBondigas]

...why shouldn't we bring in 300 million untouchables from India, 100 million Banglideshis, 400 million Chinese, and 400 million from the continent of Africa?

Great idea...but w/ the provision that they all must register & vote Democrat.

[hocndoc]

If these are the requirements for immigration from the US to Mexico, they should be the requirements for immigration to the USA.

[Dante3]

We have no obligation to allow into this country the surplus population of countries who choose to overbreed.

Those who wants to give amnesty to illegal aliens and/or encourage more of them to migrate would fall into one or more of the following categories:
1. They are bribed, blackmailed, or have other vested interest.
2. They are members of terrorist organizations, drug dealers, or engaged in other criminal activities.
3. They hate this country or are sleeper agents.
4. They suffer from mental illness such as delusions that there is something wonderful about illegals aliens.
5. They want to change this country into a Third World country.

[Penny]

<"the law itself is inherently unjust.">

Really? Why don't you come visit my neighborhood, one that used to be well-kept and peaceful? Now, in place of beauty and peace, broken beer bottles on my sidewalks, in my garden beds, loud music, ten people living in one house next door to me--bare-chested Mexicans who spit on my sidewalks and steal the pecans from under my tree and wake me up at 5:30am with their loading their trucks with plumbing supplies and throw cigarette butts for me to sweep up, never once speaking a word of English--yes, come tell me why the law is inherently unjust.

We have laws for law-abiding citizens. Illegal aliens are usurping what legal citizens have paid for with their lives and property.

I can only assume one reason that you carry such empathy for law-breakers. Every nation has the right to set its border/immigration policies. If you don't like ours, find another country that will assume responsibility for you.

Penny

[AlBondigas]

or something in the middle.
Mexico's clearly defining that they don't want immigrants being a drain.

Perhaps we should return the thought.

[usadave]

here's an idea: legalize them. turn them into enfranchised, tax-paying citizens instead of spreading this scare-mongering that borders on racism.

It's not about race, it's about the law.

[Axenolith]

so why is everyone here obsessing about immigration when they should be dismantling the welfare state instead?

Oh, COME ON! Don't be disingenuous, you'd be on here carping about that if it was the case.

[B4Ranch]

"Thus, opposing Mexicans' presence here is not a prejudice, but a rational, morally and legally justified position."

I wonder if there is a way to get the moderators to understand this. Perhaps then my personally written threads on illegal immigration wouldn't be automatically assigned to the Smokey Backroom then.

Changing Our Country,Can You Change America? Part 2, and Can You Help America?