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How Illegal Aliens are Bankrupting and Disenfranchising the American Middle and Working Classes
A Different Drummer/Middle American News ^ | December, 2003 | Nicholas Stix

Posted on 12/28/2003 10:49:51 AM PST by mrustow

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To: gawd
100 years ago popular opinion was against Italian and Irish immigration. Today it's against Mexicans.

Damned right- Mexicans who are here ILLEGALLY are the vast majority of the TRESPASSERS in my home!

101 posted on 12/28/2003 12:35:56 PM PST by Mackey (Pax Americana)
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To: gawd
"we used to have many names for 'lily-white' Irish immigrants in the 19th century... I'm sure I'll think of something."

Racist.
102 posted on 12/28/2003 12:38:32 PM PST by At _War_With_Liberals (Illegal Immigration/Amnesty- The administrations' War on Middle Class Republicans)
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To: At _War_With_Liberals
we used to have many names for 'lily-white' Irish immigrants in the 19th century... I'm sure I'll think of something."

Drunks?

Just kidding.

103 posted on 12/28/2003 12:39:46 PM PST by riri
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To: AlBondigas
...the benefits that the pachukos enjoy here

Too funny ! Ihaven't heard that word used in over 20 years !! ;-)

Yeah...now they're cholos.

104 posted on 12/28/2003 12:42:24 PM PST by Mackey (Pax Americana)
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To: nmh
Is it because AMERICANS are DEMANDING too much money for a job that doesn't warrant it?>>>>>>

Most working Americans have to live & pay American TAXES on the salary they are paid.


The only reason these jobs are available is because they typical AMERICAN believes they are TOO GOOD for the job and hence the job is available to someone else - ILLEGALS who don't believe they are too good for the job and take it.

Funny, you place NO BLAME on greedy employers, paying sub-wages, & saving a bundle on their part of taxes & benefits.


105 posted on 12/28/2003 12:42:41 PM PST by txdoda ("Navy-brat")
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To: nmh
I know an illegal anchor baby mama who works as a maid for $20 cash a day or $2.50 an hour. Of course, everything else is free. She collects food stamps, has free medical and dental care and lives in government housing. She pays no taxes. AS for illegals taking American jobs I ask you:

Why aren't AMERICANS taking these jobs?

Is it because AMERICANS are DEMANDING too much money for a job that doesn't warrant it?

The only reason these jobs are available is because they typical AMERICAN believes they are TOO GOOD for the job and hence the job is available to someone else-ILLEGALS who don't believe they are too good for the job and take it.

There are plenty of these jobs available for you and your children. Just let me know when you are coming and I'll help you. The problem is that if you are an American citizen, you may have a hard time getting all the bennies. The waiting lists for government housing are long.

It is kind of sad that our country has sunk so low. Without the American taxpayer subsidizing the ILEGALS, who can live off $2.50/hour?

106 posted on 12/28/2003 12:43:20 PM PST by texastoo ((go California go. Tell it like it is))
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To: gawd
First, I haven't lost ANY argument to you.

Second, I notice you haven't replied to the above-mentioned post.

As stated before, the large influx of Irish and Italian immigrants was entirely different. These groups did not DEMAND our citizenry learn their languages; great effort was put forth to assimilate to our culture. I don't see that happening with the vast majority of ILLEGAL aliens from south of the border.
107 posted on 12/28/2003 12:45:08 PM PST by liberallyconservative
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To: gawd
"so why is everyone here obsessing about immigration "

You will not say 'illegal immigration'.

Si?
108 posted on 12/28/2003 12:48:03 PM PST by At _War_With_Liberals (Illegal Immigration/Amnesty- The administrations' War on Middle Class Republicans)
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To: Mackey
Yeah...now they're cholos.

Cholos = tatooed homies. IIRC there's about 20 yrs that separate pachukos from cholos....but they're basically da same ting.

109 posted on 12/28/2003 12:49:00 PM PST by AlBondigas
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To: liberallyconservative
As stated before, the large influx of Irish and Italian immigrants was entirely different. These groups did not DEMAND our citizenry learn their languages; great effort was put forth to assimilate to our culture. I don't see that happening with the vast majority of ILLEGAL aliens from south of the border

precisely because they're "illegals" that they won't assimilate. make them into citizens and they'll be stars-and-stripes Americans in a generation.

110 posted on 12/28/2003 12:49:07 PM PST by gawd
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To: AlBondigas
I stand corrected. I'm sure the show wouldn't have "played" quite the same way if Mr. Hagar had shown the camera crews around his leased estate.
111 posted on 12/28/2003 12:49:35 PM PST by liberallyconservative
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To: americanbychoice
I do believe Legal Immigrants have to undergo those.>>>>>>>

Sure they do......we 'spoke' with someone the other day, who was required to do all the paperwork & backround checks we now reqire, we he immigrated his 90 yr. old mother just RECENTLY, to the USA.
112 posted on 12/28/2003 12:50:03 PM PST by txdoda ("Navy-brat")
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To: At _War_With_Liberals
Whoops. 60.000.000. ;-)
113 posted on 12/28/2003 12:52:08 PM PST by At _War_With_Liberals (Illegal Immigration/Amnesty- The administrations' War on Middle Class Republicans)
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To: At _War_With_Liberals
You will not say 'illegal immigration'.

I believe, like many of the Founding Fathers (go ahead and check), that immigration is a right, and therefore "illegal immigration" is something completely nonsensical.

114 posted on 12/28/2003 12:53:40 PM PST by gawd
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To: gawd
precisely because they're "illegals" that they won't assimilate. make them into citizens and they'll be stars-and-stripes Americans in a generation.

Yeah, with dual citizenship.

115 posted on 12/28/2003 12:53:54 PM PST by Mackey (Pax Americana)
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To: gawd
Which goes back to the question of WHY should the illegal immigrants be rewarded? And that, in essence, is what we would be doing if the ILLEGAL immigrants are given carte blanche citizenship; it denigrates those who have made enough of an effort already to assimilate by pursuing LEGAL status.
116 posted on 12/28/2003 12:54:07 PM PST by liberallyconservative
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To: mrustow
Well.
I see Nic (& you) stirring up the hornet's nest of controversy, again.
And using the same old mo, to boot: "survival," "logic," "common sense."
Sheshhhh.
When you two ever gonna learn.

You're both [now] going to endure belittlment, insults, be mocked & generally made to pay & pay dearly I'd suspect; and, by the usual suspects & their li'l helpers, no less.

Yes, the defenders of insanity & self destruction seem to have multiplied like rabbits.
One wonders where did they all come from?

That's not the worst of it, though.
Noooooo.
The most outrageous part of all the lunacy is -- for some odd reason -- how these race baiting SOBs are "respected" & held in such high esteem!!
You're wondering "Why would they be held in anything *but* contempt when the position they're taking is so transparent if not altogether dangerous to every man, woman & child of United States' cictizenship?" aren'tcha?

They can pull off this shtick because they smoothly debate while throwing everyone elses [read: legal citizen] best interests right under the bus as they hawk their Liberal-Socialist agenda.

Around here, "debating" appears to be all that matters anymore, y'know; &, fewer & fewer seem to be noticing while all the blather's going on, Rome burns. :o)

Well I'll tell you why *I* -- Landru -- don't worry about all this illegal alien crap for one instant.
That's because our POTUS is going to take care of everything.
I know that because someone told me so, too.

Hope your holidays have been all you'd want 'em to be, Mr.r.; or, peaceful if nothing else.

...give my best to nic, will you.

117 posted on 12/28/2003 12:57:18 PM PST by Landru (Tagline Schmagline...just a drag on my line.)
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To: mrustow
bump for later!
118 posted on 12/28/2003 12:57:42 PM PST by TEXOKIE (Hold fast what thou hast received!)
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To: gawd
There are laws in place for the pursuit of legal immigration. To ignore or willfully break those laws constitutes the "illegal" status.
119 posted on 12/28/2003 12:57:49 PM PST by liberallyconservative
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To: gawd
this is about keeping "wetbacks" OUT. pure and simple.>>>>>>

I stated "no rewards for any LAWBREAKERS, any color, from any country (including US Citizens)" and YOU *SPIN* that to "keeping wetbacks out" !!!

Why do your 'one sided arguments' only pertain to mexico.???


120 posted on 12/28/2003 12:58:33 PM PST by txdoda ("Navy-brat")
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To: Mackey
Yeah, with dual citizenship.

I'm a dual citizen and eligible for a third passport in a certain european country. so all of a sudden I'm a 'bad' American?

121 posted on 12/28/2003 12:59:27 PM PST by gawd
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To: gawd
I believe, like many of the Founding Fathers (go ahead and check), that immigration is a right, and therefore "illegal immigration" is something completely nonsensical.

Oh wow, how can I possibly respond to that? Guess I'll just have to take your word for it.

< /sarcasm >

122 posted on 12/28/2003 1:00:04 PM PST by Mackey (Repeat after me: Borders, Language, Culture.)
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To: AlBondigas
I think pachukos were generally better dressed. I seem to remember that name was usually applied to dressed-up homies in their 'zoot suits.'

...its been quite a while. In the lat 15-20 years the most common slang for a street dude of Mescan descent is cholo. Which can have a number of diff meanings...lol. Not all of them are complimentary depending on if you're in so cali or in so Texas.

123 posted on 12/28/2003 1:00:57 PM PST by Khurkris (Ranger On...)
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To: liberallyconservative
it denigrates those who have made enough of an effort already to assimilate by pursuing LEGAL status.

Likewise, ending the Prohibition denigrated the millions of Americans who obeyed the law and didn't drink no matter how much they wanted to...

You cut your losses, admit a mistake, and go on to a brighter future.

124 posted on 12/28/2003 1:01:58 PM PST by gawd
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To: gawd; liberallyconservative
I'm most definitely not a troll. is that how you treat everyone you lose an argument with?

Troll since Nov. 19,2003

125 posted on 12/28/2003 1:03:20 PM PST by CaptainK
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To: mrustow
It is our own government, not illegal aliens, who are killing the economy.

Don't believe me? Try and build an addition to a house within 2 miles of the California coastline and see what happens.

126 posted on 12/28/2003 1:03:44 PM PST by snopercod (I've posted a total of 575 threads and 15,770 replies, and I've not yet begun to fight.)
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To: liberallyconservative
Times have changed (vs. 100 yrs ago).
In the past 20 yrs FATHER FED (w/ the complicity of the morons in Congress) decided to throw a sumptuous feast/party in the hope of reelection.
The menu included (but was not limited to): WIC, AFDC, food stamps, welfare, free health care, housing subsidies,etc, etc. & it was good.
Then the party was crashed by uninvited neighbors to the south.
Problem: the crashers were never thrown out & were actually welcomed by some incapable of cogent thought (read Demos up for election).
IT'S Time to end the feast/party !!!
127 posted on 12/28/2003 1:05:14 PM PST by AlBondigas
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To: mrustow
Smells like a class war to me.

Tut, tut. 'War' is such a harsh word.

Whatever 'interests' want the government to do on their behalf will be done. That's the entire brief, reach and essence of modern governance.

Ancient governance, too, for that matter. ;^)

Only during the brief interregnum of American Constitutional government was it ever any different for suffering mankind.

Happy New Year!

128 posted on 12/28/2003 1:06:13 PM PST by headsonpikes (Spirit of '76 bttt!)
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To: Khurkris; AlBondigas
pachukos... cholos

Y'all are forgetting the vatos.

129 posted on 12/28/2003 1:08:00 PM PST by DumpsterDiver
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To: gawd
I'm a dual citizen and eligible for a third passport in a certain european country. so all of a sudden I'm a 'bad' American?

Oh, now we're getting somewhere. Dual citizen, eh? You believe in polygamy too?

Bad? No. Just diluted.

130 posted on 12/28/2003 1:08:54 PM PST by Mackey (Repeat after me: Borders, Language, Culture.)
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To: DumpsterDiver
Y'all are forgetting the vatos.

And in the spirit of inclusion...lets not forget the jotos(sp?).

131 posted on 12/28/2003 1:13:36 PM PST by AlBondigas
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To: AlBondigas
I agree. The entire welfare state needs to be overhauled &/or disemboweled.
132 posted on 12/28/2003 1:17:31 PM PST by liberallyconservative
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To: mrustow
It's not the aliens - it's socialism.
133 posted on 12/28/2003 1:19:20 PM PST by The Raven
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To: AlBondigas
And in the spirit of inclusion...lets not forget the jotos(sp?)

You spelled it correctly.

If you ever want to kill some time, this is always, um, educational:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/

134 posted on 12/28/2003 1:23:09 PM PST by DumpsterDiver
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To: liberallyconservative
&/or disemboweled.

I'd settle for eviscerated...goes a little further ;-)

135 posted on 12/28/2003 1:23:42 PM PST by AlBondigas
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To: gawd
The parallel you're attempting to draw here looks rather perpendicular from where I'm sitting.

"Prohibition" as compared to ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION... right.

There is no need to change the current laws prohibiting illegal immigration, unless it is to make them harsher and actually enforce them.
136 posted on 12/28/2003 1:24:53 PM PST by liberallyconservative
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To: CaptainK
Sure seems that way, doesn't it?
137 posted on 12/28/2003 1:25:46 PM PST by liberallyconservative
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To: AlBondigas
Oooh, sounds even better.
138 posted on 12/28/2003 1:26:23 PM PST by liberallyconservative
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To: The Raven
It's not the aliens - it's socialism.

It's both, wouldn't you say? We can't deport citizens on welfare, but we can do so to illegal aliens.

139 posted on 12/28/2003 1:27:53 PM PST by DumpsterDiver
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To: gawd
There are too many kids in our local school district who do not speak English. They don't have SS#, but, somehow, they're allowed to attend our schools, and mom and dad drive. (In at least one family I know about, the kids were born here and have attended our schools since 5 yo, they're now 7 and 10.) They live in rented housing or with relatives, so no one pays school taxes.

What sort of ethics does living this way teach children?

For that matter, how can INS not know about these kids and their families?


140 posted on 12/28/2003 1:29:24 PM PST by hocndoc (Choice is the # 1 killer in the US)
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To: DumpsterDiver
Wow, thanks ! I saved that link as a fav.
It even had maricon listed.
141 posted on 12/28/2003 1:30:37 PM PST by AlBondigas
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To: Lizavetta
Yes, the Pro-Illegals are that stupid, or worse, evil. Whether or not people like it, or can drag themselves from denial long enought to deal with the reality, we are going to get dragged kicking and screaming into a world where American labor is more on-par with the rest of the worlds. Since the vast majority of that labor market is making somewhere between US $0.25 to $2.00/hour it will eventually come home to roost here.

It wouldn't be so bad if we had some means of simultaneously reducing the costs that are currently burdening the $7.25+ American worker (so that a reduction in wages wouldn't lead to a rapidly declining standard of living) but that is just NOT going to happen because it will involve a massive reduction in social largess and, consequently, the reelection of politicians.
142 posted on 12/28/2003 1:36:56 PM PST by Axenolith (Tag, y-o-u a-r-e i-t...)
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To: DumpsterDiver
Hong Kong doesn't have socialism.....and the mainland's population vote with their feet and leave the worker's paradise.
143 posted on 12/28/2003 1:39:17 PM PST by The Raven
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To: gawd; Lizavetta
And what would you call us if the illegals were lily-white Swedes, doing the same exact thing to the American taxpayers? Norsists?

we used to have many names for lily-white Irish immigrants in the 19th century... I'm sure I'll think of something.

Like most illegal immigration apologists, gawd, you deliberately erase the distinction between legal immigrants of the 19th and 20th Centuries and the illegal aliens flooding across our borders right now.

Go to Mexico, as a non-Mexican citizen, and try to set up housekeeping and get a job in violation of Mexican immigration laws and see how far you get before Mexican law falls on your head like a ton of bricks.

144 posted on 12/28/2003 1:40:01 PM PST by Polybius
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To: gawd
I'm talking about unconditional, free immigration for all able-bodied persons without a criminal record. everyone has a right to the American Dream.

And you can have that, AFAIC, as long as it doesn't include stealing from me to provide >insert whatever< for the immigrants. The American Dream in my book does not include free medical, dental, food stamps, power subsidies, extra security etc... to the tune of close to 50%, from the sweat of MY brow. Since pigs will fly the day that your unconditional immigration comes without those encumberances you might not want to count me as a supporter yet...

145 posted on 12/28/2003 1:43:40 PM PST by Axenolith (Tag, y-o-u a-r-e i-t...)
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To: gawd
So,they believed immigration was an actual "right"? Uh, I don't think so pal. Here are some writings from Mr. Thomas Jefferson on the immigrants coming to his country at the time. He obviously had qualms about immigration and that some immigrants were preferable to others :

Some selected quotes:

"[Is] rapid population [growth] by as great importations of foreigners as possible... founded in good policy?... They will bring with them the principles of the governments they leave, imbibed in their early youth; or, if able to throw them off, it will be in exchange for an unbounded licentiousness, passing, as is usual, from one extreme to another. It would be a miracle were they to stop precisely at the point of temperate liberty. These principles, with their language, they will transmit to their children. In proportion to their number, they will share with us the legislation. They will infuse into it their spirit, warp and bias its direction, and render it a heterogeneous, incoherent, distracted mass... If they come of themselves, they are entitled to all the rights of citizenship: but I doubt the expediency of inviting them by extraordinary encouragements." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.VIII, 1782. ME 2:118

"Although as to other foreigners it is thought better to discourage their settling together in large masses, wherein, as in our German settlements, they preserve for a long time their own languages, habits, and principles of government, and that they should distribute themselves sparsely among the natives for quicker amalgamation, yet English emigrants are without this inconvenience. They differ from us little but in their principles of government, and most of those (merchants excepted) who come here, are sufficiently disposed to adopt ours." --Thomas Jefferson to George Flower, 1817. ME 15:140

Mr. Jefferson was NOT an open borders idiot, contrary to what you may think.

BTW, Even the the paragon of 20th Century Libertarianism, Ludwig Von Mises was against a country actually having an open borders immigration policy.
146 posted on 12/28/2003 1:43:52 PM PST by Cyropaedia
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To: meenie
Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on some conversations I've had with mining principles, those property ownership laws have been reformed recently...
147 posted on 12/28/2003 1:46:23 PM PST by Axenolith (Tag, y-o-u a-r-e i-t...)
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To: liberallyconservative
Illegal aliens are criminals. Period. They flaunt their contempt for our laws. Many of them pose a threat to our national security and commit horrible crimes.

Also, we already have too many people -- we certainly do not need more criminals. Our historic battle fields are being destroyed, traffic jams growing, etc. In the D.C.-Northern Virginia-Maryland, for example, thousands of illegals have formed violent gangs, many involved in home invasion.

And lets not forget the illegal aliens sociopathic sense of entitlement.

There is absolutely no benefit for this country to let illegal aliens remain. They should be and can easily be deported.

148 posted on 12/28/2003 1:47:35 PM PST by Dante3
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To: Polybius
While an immigrant Gringo can't work (save being a proprietor or artiste) in Mexico....how 'bout the requirement that a prospective immigrant resident prove a monthly income of $1200(?) in order to reside ?

Kinda limits Mexico's immigration policy to well heeled retirees.

149 posted on 12/28/2003 1:48:39 PM PST by AlBondigas
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To: gawd
"ain't talking about amnesty. I'm talking about unconditional, free immigration for all able-bodied persons without a criminal record. everyone has a right to the American Dream"

Based on your criteria, why shouldn't we bring in 300 million untouchables from India, 100 million Banglideshis, 400 million Chinese, and 400 million from the continent of Africa?

150 posted on 12/28/2003 1:51:22 PM PST by FreedomSurge
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