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Why the Trash You Sort Isn't Getting Recycled
http://www.americanoutlook.org ^ | December 29, 2003 | Dennis T. Avery

Posted on 12/29/2003 10:07:20 AM PST by stylin_geek

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To: stylin_geek
Nice to know - I think I'll run over and tell many of my pious "We recycle so we are better than you, cuz we care" neighbors about this...
51 posted on 12/29/2003 11:25:41 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks (What am I rebelling against? Well, what do ya got?)
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To: AZLiberty
Wow, nothing like stimulating the economy on both ends.
52 posted on 12/29/2003 11:35:46 AM PST by stylin_geek (Koffi: 0, G.W. Bush: (I lost count)
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To: Glenn
Whattttttttt???????? scrub your garbage (trash) before you throw it away??? hell, if i wash it, i'm gonna keep it...i don't want to keep it that is why i threw it away..it is called garbage cause it is dirty.
53 posted on 12/29/2003 11:36:09 AM PST by cajun-jack
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To: visagoth
A couple of years ago, a business that I was acquainted with started the big office paper recycling program ....

I once worked for a company that had a huge recycle bin, upon which there was a large sign that read "WHITE TRASH ONLY."

54 posted on 12/29/2003 11:38:57 AM PST by Agnes Heep
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To: alnick
In my wife's and my younger days, we did what you do. It turned a rock pile into a great back yard with a minimum of 6 inches to 19 inches of good top soil.

Apparently there is still a market for the grass triming and garden green waste. As a separate truck picks up that container.
55 posted on 12/29/2003 11:40:37 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Kaddaffi, "I will do whatever the Americans want because I saw what happened in Iraq. ")
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To: stylin_geek
Still not sorting trash since 1952.


About 10 years ago, when our local program was still fresh in everyone's mind, a neighbors child 'caught' me dumping empty beer cans into the regular trash.

The mind-numbed victim of public school indoctrination looked at me with tears in his eyes and said, "Mr. Teddy, if you don't recycle, the rain forests will burn down!".

I told him not to worry, if the rain forest caught on fire, I'd drink more beer and pee on it. That seemed to satisfy him or at least frighteded him enough to go away. (and yes, his Dad and I had a good laugh about it.)
56 posted on 12/29/2003 11:41:53 AM PST by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: Agnes Heep
Some of the best humor in life are these little slices of reality like this one you posted:

"WHITE TRASH ONLY."

57 posted on 12/29/2003 11:42:00 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Kaddaffi, "I will do whatever the Americans want because I saw what happened in Iraq. ")
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To: Grampa Dave
Apparently there is still a market for the grass triming and garden green waste. As a separate truck picks up that container.

A lot of communities do that and compost the stuff and then provide it back to the people in the community, either for a small fee or free. My town doesn't do anything like that, so I have to scrounge for my organic matter for the garden.

58 posted on 12/29/2003 11:43:24 AM PST by alnick
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To: Grampa Dave
One very independent Doctor

Probably Howard Dean.

59 posted on 12/29/2003 11:46:12 AM PST by oyez (Incredible!)
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To: Oatka
I doubt that this article is well-documented even though I agree with him to an extent. There is no way that a liter plasitc bottle is only 30% lighter than a liter glass bottle. I also doubt the stats concerning land fill areas. When even little ole Columbus, Georgia has a vast ex-fill area covered by a new public golf course one must consider that more and more space is indeed required. New dumps are always controversial due to neighbors not wanting trucks passing with garbage blowing out.
60 posted on 12/29/2003 11:48:03 AM PST by Monterrosa-24 (A liter of litter)
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To: alnick
I know that the county and city provide this material to those who want it for free or low cost.

I'm passing the word about Starbucks and their coffee grounds to a couple of young relatives who want to raise earthworms for bait and gardens. These great nephews want to be big time worm raisers. I think there is a local Starbucks in their area.

My sons, before they graduated to flies and artificial lures would buy a couple of dozen worms, put them in an area and throw our coffee grounds on the top of the soil and cover it with damp newspapers. In a few months they had all the worms they needed.
61 posted on 12/29/2003 11:50:39 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Kaddaffi, "I will do whatever the Americans want because I saw what happened in Iraq. ")
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To: stylin_geek
bump
62 posted on 12/29/2003 11:52:03 AM PST by RippleFire
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To: oyez
This clown will be a big Dean supporter if he isn't.
63 posted on 12/29/2003 11:52:18 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Kaddaffi, "I will do whatever the Americans want because I saw what happened in Iraq. ")
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To: stylin_geek
I don't live in Calcutta, so I always attempt to minimize the amount of time spent playing with my garbage.
64 posted on 12/29/2003 11:55:11 AM PST by Hank Rearden (Dick Gephardt. Before he dicks you.)
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To: Oatka
But glass was sterilized and reused umpteen times. Then somebody got the bright idea to dump the costs on the public and use "disposeable" plastic bottles, which takes years, if ever, to deteriorate. Note that the shift to plastic didn't equal a drop in price.

I don't ever recall 2-liter Cokes being sold in glass bottles, either.

65 posted on 12/29/2003 12:00:03 PM PST by Dont Mention the War
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To: stylin_geek
Please see tagline...
66 posted on 12/29/2003 12:11:11 PM PST by metesky (My investment program is still holding steady @ $.05 a can.)
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To: Oatka

But glass was sterilized and reused umpteen times. Then somebody got the bright idea to dump the costs on the public and use "disposeable" plastic bottles, which takes years, if ever, to deteriorate.

The only reason glass was recycled was because we didn't have the technology to make enough plastic bottles. Now we do, and it's cheaper than hauling all those heavy bottles everywhere. The plastic bottles actually decompose faster than the crude oil they were extracted from.

Even if we run out of fossil petroleum we will still be able to synthesize whatever plastics we need from trees, crops or coal. All it takes is energy -- and we have at least a 4,000 year supply of uranium and thorium.

The most rational way to recycle is to burn trash to reclaim the energy and release the CO2 so that plants can use it.

67 posted on 12/29/2003 12:24:07 PM PST by Dan Evans
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To: stylin_geek
Why did people promote recycling so heavily in the first place? Lots of people probably misunderstood the costs and benefits. It’s also true that eco-activists urgently wanted everybody to feel a direct stake in saving the planet. Telling us all to recycle was their way to make us feel eco-involved.

This is a clueless answer. The foundations that financially sponsor eco groups are heavily invested in selling you energy and water. Guess what recycling wastes in abundance?

68 posted on 12/29/2003 12:26:34 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to manage by politics.)
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To: Grampa Dave

So now one of the Doctors, a watermelon, has become the Complex's Garbage Nazi. His office has a corner view of the garbage storage area with all of the marked and defined bins. He watches all day and then makes periodical visits to physically inspect the individual dumpers which are different colors and marked for specific garbage. All of the garbage goes into one or two trucks, it is compacted together

Insanity. Like Alice in Wonderland. Like a Monty Python skit.

69 posted on 12/29/2003 12:47:35 PM PST by Dan Evans
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To: Carry_Okie
Notice the last part of the last sentence ..."feel eco-involved." I think that is an accurate summation, IE, the left puts feelings ahead of facts.
70 posted on 12/29/2003 12:48:58 PM PST by stylin_geek (Koffi: 0, G.W. Bush: (I lost count)
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To: Grampa Dave
Some of the best humor in life are these little slices of reality like this one you posted:
"WHITE TRASH ONLY."

Well, I was certainly amused! Every time I lifted the lid I half expected to be regaled by the sight of a toothless redneck, chugging a Miller Lite and chomping on a big wad of Red Man.

71 posted on 12/29/2003 12:52:29 PM PST by Agnes Heep
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To: stylin_geek
Notice the last part of the last sentence ..."feel eco-involved." I think that is an accurate summation, IE, the left puts feelings ahead of facts.

It may describe the useful idiots, but it doesn't do justice to those who fund them.

72 posted on 12/29/2003 1:05:51 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to manage by politics.)
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To: Hank Rearden

I don't live in Calcutta, so I always attempt to minimize the amount of time spent playing with my garbage

Maybe this is just a big joke and even the greens don't believe in it -- just their way of having fun. Kind of like the way they stopped up everyone's plumbing with the low-flush toilets.

Stupid or evil? Evil

73 posted on 12/29/2003 1:12:35 PM PST by Dan Evans
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To: Monterrosa-24
People certainly don't want dumps near them, thus every single new dump will be fought tooth-and-nail legally, the point is there's no shortage of space whatsoever for dumps, which is absolutely true.

There's immense amounts of open space in this country and dumps will never, ever, make the slightest dent in it.
74 posted on 12/29/2003 1:16:34 PM PST by John H K
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To: Glenn
Not to mention the leak of smelly icky "garbage fluid" that drains out of the truck every time they fire up the compactor on the back of the truck.
75 posted on 12/29/2003 1:26:02 PM PST by Johnny Gage (How does the guy who drives the snowplow get to work in the mornings?)
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To: Ff--150
...AND these phony recycling programs has us paying $2.00+ a month for our planet! Sheech!!....

It gets worst. Because the government makes it illegal for others to pick up your recyclables, organizations like the boy scouts who used to make money by doing it for FREE cannot.

Heck, we used to scour the neighborhood for glass bottles for the $0.05 bottle deposit.
76 posted on 12/29/2003 1:26:24 PM PST by Joe_October (Saddam supported Terrorists. Al Qaeda are Terrorists. I can't find the link.)
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To: KEVLAR
....It is cost effective for me to sort. I pay $2.00 per can for garbage to be hauled away. Recyclables are free....

Yea, no scam there.
77 posted on 12/29/2003 1:30:34 PM PST by Joe_October (Saddam supported Terrorists. Al Qaeda are Terrorists. I can't find the link.)
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To: E Rocc
ER,

"one-time second largest aluminum recycling site in North America (my previous employer)"
By recycling, did you mean that they actually melted the cans down to ingots? If so, what kind and size of crucibles did they do the melt in? And how long did those crucibles last, before needing replacement?

I ask because a dirty little secret of aluminum recycling is that the ratio of aluminum oxide to aluminum is at its highest in the thin sheets used to make aluminum cans. The aluminum oxide is a very good insulator and this causes hotspots in the crucible which results in overheating it to destructive levels. Crucibles are very expensive and the need for frequent replacement can destroy the cost savings of recycling.

Any comment?

--Boot Hill

78 posted on 12/29/2003 1:32:34 PM PST by Boot Hill (Entropy Kills!!!)
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To: Grampa Dave
Last time I was in the local Starbucks, they had a basket full of two-pound bags of grounds. I snagged one for my organic-gardener neighbor. Made my work truck smell great for the rest of the week :)
79 posted on 12/29/2003 1:48:19 PM PST by TexasBarak (aka Captain Cantankerous!!- www.postalbanks.com)
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To: Mo1
"the stupidest recycling story I've heard, was a few years ago when a street near me was repaved using recycled glass"
Actually, that's not as stupid as you make it sound. Recycled glass is crushed to the size of small grains of sand and added to road repaving materials, recycled rubber (e.g., for railroad crossings) and to plastics to make them extremely strong and durable. Pretty standard and intelligent use of recyclables.

--Boot Hill

80 posted on 12/29/2003 1:48:29 PM PST by Boot Hill (Entropy Kills!!!)
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To: TexasBarak
Maybe I should get a bag and put it in the back of my Bronco to neutralize the aroma coming from my fly fishing waders, belts and boots.
81 posted on 12/29/2003 1:53:22 PM PST by Grampa Dave (Kaddaffi, "I will do whatever the Americans want because I saw what happened in Iraq. ")
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To: Boot Hill
By recycling, did you mean that they actually melted the cans down to ingots? If so, what kind and size of crucibles did they do the melt in? And how long did those crucibles last, before needing replacement?

I ask because a dirty little secret of aluminum recycling is that the ratio of aluminum oxide to aluminum is at its highest in the thin sheets used to make aluminum cans. The aluminum oxide is a very good insulator and this causes hotspots in the crucible which results in overheating it to destructive levels. Crucibles are very expensive and the need for frequent replacement can destroy the cost savings of recycling.

Any comment?

We didn't do a lot of UBC (used beverage can) recycling because they got sloppy and because there's a lot of magnesium in them and we mostly made low-mag alloys.

You're right about the oxide content. Indeed, any metallic surface will have a thin coat of oxide on it. Fortunately, in some metals the coating is durable, thin, and continuous and further oxidation takes place slowly if at all. Aluminum is one of them.

Oxide is easy to deal with. Most of it floats, and can be skimmed off the metal bath once you separate it from the metal. There's several ways of doing this. One of the more popular is chlorine gas, which also removes magnesium.

If the oxide is left in the metal, it eventually forms corundum, which is like silicon carbide only harder, and sinks. That will clinton up a furnace worse than hot spots, though hot spots are one of the reasons that iron pots aren't usually used to recycle aluminum.

We used large reverbatory furnaces, up to 150,000 pounds capacity. A lot of stuff we'd crush and dry first. Not because of the oxide, but because of moisture. While the effect is more pronounced with magnesium (see the thread I just posted), moisture will also make aluminum explode.

Recycling isn't the cleanest industrial process out there. One irony about that is that when the Toxic Releases Reporting law first got implemented, the big "polluters" were the aluminum melters that were landfilling aluminum oxide byproduct. 8% of the Earth's crust is aluminum oxide, but since one rare form can be toxic, the EPA called all forms toxic. They de-listed it a year or two later, causing much whining among the greenies who didn't want anything delisted.

-Eric

82 posted on 12/29/2003 1:55:48 PM PST by E Rocc
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To: Agnes Heep
That description sounds like the Redneck Voters that Howie the Metro Sexual Dean is after in 2004.
83 posted on 12/29/2003 1:59:04 PM PST by Grampa Dave (Kaddaffi, "I will do whatever the Americans want because I saw what happened in Iraq. ")
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To: Grampa Dave
"He is called the Garbage Nazi even by those on his staff, and...a few more colorful adjectives"
He's a doctor and should know better, being anal retentive is simply not a good recycling practice! Maybe a visit to the clinic's proctologist could help him.

--Boot Hill

84 posted on 12/29/2003 2:03:19 PM PST by Boot Hill (Entropy Kills!!!)
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To: stylin_geek
BTTT

Lando

85 posted on 12/29/2003 2:09:32 PM PST by Lando Lincoln (The Vermin had vermin)
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To: Oatka
Plastic bottles are used because the shipping weight on them is about 1/10 that of the glass bottles.

BTW next time you feel bad about throwing away plastic, remember that it is a refined byproduct of petroleum refinement. I don't know what they did with the chemicals for polyethylene before bottles and bags, but I'm pretty sure that they weren't locked up as safely as they are in the polymer.
86 posted on 12/29/2003 2:16:43 PM PST by American_Centurion
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To: E Rocc
Eric,

That was a really informative reply, thanks! I would have really enjoyed a tour of that place.

"(see the thread I just posted)"

???

--Boot

87 posted on 12/29/2003 2:16:54 PM PST by Boot Hill (Entropy Kills!!!)
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To: Boot Hill
I think that the building has offered a free trip to the GI doc across the street for the Garbage Nazi. He just gets more determined and has even less humor than before.
88 posted on 12/29/2003 2:18:07 PM PST by Grampa Dave (Kaddaffi, "I will do whatever the Americans want because I saw what happened in Iraq. ")
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To: Grampa Dave
Dave,

"He just gets more determined and has even less humor than before."

After heart and brain activity, these are the three most important vital signs of life:

  1. The ability to laugh.
  2. The ability to learn.
  3. A sense of adventure.
Doc seems to be missing the first two. I predict a short unhappy life for him.

--Boot

89 posted on 12/29/2003 2:35:01 PM PST by Boot Hill (Entropy Kills!!!)
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To: Boot Hill
He has a deficit on all 3 vital signs you posted. #1, the lack of sense of humor is the most pronounced.
90 posted on 12/29/2003 2:49:52 PM PST by Grampa Dave (Kaddaffi, "I will do whatever the Americans want because I saw what happened in Iraq. ")
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To: Triple Word Score
Welcome to FR, TWS!
91 posted on 12/29/2003 2:53:24 PM PST by stands2reason
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92 posted on 12/29/2003 2:58:12 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat (www.firethebcs.com, www.weneedaplayoff.com, www.firemackbrown.com, www.firecarlreese.com)
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Comment #93 Removed by Moderator

To: Diddle E. Squat
leakage from modern America’s landfills can be expected to cause one cancer-related death over the next 50 years.

I can't believe this whole thread has missed this critical and all-important point! Landfills are killers! They will kill someone in the next 50 years! What if it is YOU? Or your Mother! Or your sister? Or your infant child?? Or some disabled kid? Or some underpriviledged person of color?? Landfills must be stopped before they kill anyone!! We have to do something with all this garbage!!!!!

This is Bush's fault! He has killed with his lies and now he will kill with his trash! He MUST be stopped! How can all of you sit here compacently while this travesty goes on!! What is wrong with you!!!

</Dean rant>

94 posted on 12/29/2003 3:23:45 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Peace through Strength)
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To: alnick
Adding that to my repertoire of strategies. My garden battle may be futile no matter what I do. A maple tree wants my garden space. It keeps sending roots in, and branches to shade my raised beds. The maple tree is lovely and the jewel of my backyard, utterly necessary in July and August, but apparently there isn't a food crop in the world that likes maple roots tangling their way into their space.
95 posted on 12/29/2003 4:10:32 PM PST by Triple Word Score
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To: Scenic Sounds
Look, we've been separating all that stuff for nothing!
96 posted on 12/29/2003 4:18:15 PM PST by Amelia (A good tagline requires lots of imagination. Darn it.)
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To: freedumb2003
Hey, you know that Gore's son was picked up for marijuana possession, right? It's Bush's fault, because his tax cuts left more money in Gore's pocket, thereby enabling him to afford to buy an illegal substance. And, since smoke from marijuana is a known carcinogen, and also contributes to pollution, again, the environment is at risk...because of Bush's tax policies.
97 posted on 12/29/2003 4:31:16 PM PST by stylin_geek (Koffi: 0, G.W. Bush: (I lost count)
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To: Triple Word Score
You can find much more detail at the gardenweb.com forums, specifically the soil forum.
98 posted on 12/29/2003 5:31:50 PM PST by alnick
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To: alnick
Thank you!
99 posted on 12/29/2003 5:33:12 PM PST by Triple Word Score
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To: Grampa Dave
The rest of the recycles are thrown in the same truck. They extract the botttles and cans and compact the rest and send it to Utah, I believe.

This is a hoot GD. We ship our garbage to a land fill near you. It was supposed to go to Oregon. You know how much useless land in Humboldt County but they couldn't find a gulch to dump it in.

When they closed the landfill they turned 43 bear loose on Eureka. The garbage co had to change from night pickups to morning so people could put their cans out then to keep the bears form raiding them...

100 posted on 12/29/2003 9:11:44 PM PST by tubebender (Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see...)
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