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The Problem With Serbia
War to Mobilize Democracy ^ | 12/29/2003 | Andrew L. Jaffee

Posted on 12/29/2003 5:09:36 PM PST by forty_years

Edited on 12/30/2003 7:53:27 AM PST by Sidebar Moderator. [history]

You would think that after all these years, Serbians would’ve had enough of ultra-nationalism, campaigns of genocide, and war crimes. Apparently, many Serbians can’t get enough. The super-nationalistic Serbian Radical Party (SRS) won an estimated 28% of the popular vote and 81 seats in parliament in elections held yesterday. Slobodan Milosevic’s Socialist Party, with its extensive history of war crimes, won 22 seats in parliament. According to the BBC:

An outgoing deputy prime minister, Nebojsa Covic, said voters had punished the reformist government for failing to raise living standards.

"Living standards." There’s always an excuse for hatred, it seems: "We supported Hitler because the economy was bad," or "We didn’t oppose Stalin because he kept order." The behavior of many Serbians over the last decade sickens me. Remember the TV images of Serbian youth holding rock concerts in support of their soldiers’ genocidal activities in Kosovo? Just to set the record straight, I’ll once again remind people of the blood that some (not all) Serbians have on their hands.

Serbia, with a population of 10 million, was the big kid on the block in Yugoslavia – the bully – just as Russians were in the old Soviet Union. Major Serbian or “Yugoslav” bullying got under way in 1991 when the Slovenians declared independence from the Yugoslav federation. Yugoslav forces tried to quell the innate desire for independence, but failed, thank goodness. 100 people were needlessly killed. Slovenia is now free, and a charter member of both NATO and the EU. The Serbs didn’t want that. They wanted to dominate the Slovenes and siphon off their wealth and resources. Yugoslavia wanted to drag all the Balkans down to the lowest common denominator of “socialism” (e.g., centralized power and the enrichment of a chosen few like Slobodan Milosevic and his repulsive wife).

As the Yugoslav/Serbian bullies failed to demolish Slovenia, they turned their attentions to the Croats. Croats aren’t without sin. Some helped Hitler in WWII. No group is without sin, but Croats still deserve self-determination. Starting in 1991, the Yugoslav/Serb bullies tried to quell Croatia’s bid for independence. Both Serbs and Croats committed war crimes in the ensuing struggle, and are paying for their sins. But the Croats finally won their independence, thank goodness.

Not satisfied with trying to quell the autonomous urges of two nations, the Serbs turned their wrath against Bosnia-Herzegovina in 1992, where they kicked their genocidal intentions into high gear. Serbs murdered 250,000 Bosnian citizens. The Serbs killed 7,000 Muslim boys and men in a single incident at Srebrenica. This isn’t conjecture. This is fact. A former Bosnian Serb army commander, Dragan Obrenovic, confessed to taking part in the massacre. Serbia-Montenegro’s president apologized (admitted guilt) to the people of Bosnia-Herzegovina for atrocities committed by Serbs during the 1992-1995 war. I admire his integrity for such a step. This proves not all Serbs are guilty of anything.

Failing to quell the free aspirations of a third nation, the Serbs turned their genocidal intentions against Kosovo in 1999. Led by the great “socialist” leader Slobodan Milosevic, the Serbs murdered between 5,000 and 12,000 Kosovo Albanians and deported 800,000. Only a sustained NATO bombing campaign, of course led by the U.S. over the objections of the European chicken-hearts, stopped the decade-long Serbian campaign of bullying.

Apparently, this fresh history of mass-murder isn’t enough for some Serbs. Their votes yesterday give the Serbian Radical Party (SRS) and Milosevic’s Socialist Party enough seats in the Serbian parliament to block the efforts of moderate reformers. Again, the BBC:

But the [Serbian Radical Party] party, whose leader Vojislav Seselj is held by the UN war crimes tribunal in The Hague, is not strong enough to form a government by itself.

Four pro-reform groups are now likely to form a governing coalition.

However, correspondents say the new government may be fragile, ineffective and short-lived. ...

A [Socialist] party official, Ivica Dacic, said: "Technically speaking Milosevic can be a deputy, but our party is yet to decide who is going to take up the seats."

What inspiring news: Serbia could technically now be ruled by two genocidal war criminals. What’s wrong with this picture? How could so many Serbs vote this way? What’s next, an extermination campaign against tiny Montenegro – justified by bad “living standards?”


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 911apologistsclub; aljaffeeserbhater; alqaidasupporters; balkans; bosnia; bravosierra; bully; campaign; crap; crimes; croatia; elections; ethnicleansing; genocide; herzegovina; idiocy; jaffeelies; jaffemuhammedan; kosovo; lies; mass; milosevic; muhammedanlies; muhammedanpropaganda; murder; nationalism; nationalist; party; radical; serb; serbia; serbian; serbians; serbmassacres; serbs; serbterrorists; slobodan; slovenia; socialist; srebrenica; srs; terroristserbs; ultra; war
Same old, same old. When will they learn?
1 posted on 12/29/2003 5:09:39 PM PST by forty_years
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To: forty_years
You would think that after all these years, Serbians would’ve had enough of ultra-nationalism, campaigns of genocide, and war crimes.

--------------------

Years ago the serbs were invaded by mohmmedan armies who were on their way to laying siege upon Vienna in 1527 and again in 1683. The Serbs have never stopped defending themselves from the invaders. The serbs made a deal with the mohammedan invaders. They said if it takes 50 years, 100 years, 1,000 years, we want you out and we will keep fighting until you are out. When you leave, take your children, grandchildren, and great great granchildren with you. That was the deal the mohammedan invaders entered into. Somewhere along the line this continuing effort to repel the invaders was labeled racism and ethnic cleansing.

2 posted on 12/29/2003 5:28:11 PM PST by RLK
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To: forty_years
Ethnic tribes have been killing each other in the Balkans for hundreds of years. Its not just the Serbs, its all of them. In a fight between snakes, and rats it really doesn't pay to take sides.
3 posted on 12/29/2003 5:30:08 PM PST by monday
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: gitmogrunt
This article is bogus.
5 posted on 12/29/2003 8:10:01 PM PST by Lion in Winter
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To: Lion in Winter; MarMema; Destro; FormerLib; Honorary Serb; A. Pole
This article is bogus.

So true.

6 posted on 12/29/2003 10:17:16 PM PST by RussianConservative (Xristos: the Light of the World)
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To: RussianConservative
Remember the TV images of Serbian youth holding rock concerts in support of their soldiers’ genocidal activities in Kosovo?

Geez... The rock concerts were held in support of sanity. The author needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Obviously he's never spent a second under heavy bombardment. What else could they do except shag and dance to the oldies?

ARM THE SERBS!

7 posted on 12/29/2003 10:54:36 PM PST by Banat ("You've got two empty 'alves of coconut, and you're banging 'em together!")
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To: RussianConservative; Lion in Winter; forty_years
I have a feeling that the poster, forty_years, is the author of this piece - Andrew L. Jaffee - as well.
8 posted on 12/30/2003 6:20:51 AM PST by joan
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To: forty_years
Starting in 1991, the Yugoslav/Serb bullies tried to quell Croatia’s bid for independence. Both Serbs and Croats committed war crimes in the ensuing struggle, and are paying for their sins.

Your link about Croats "paying for their sins" in the Croatian war part doesn't link to Croats paying for their crimes over Serbs in that war, but to Croats on trial for what they did to Bosnian Muslims in the Bosnian war. Bad linkage. It seems you are trying to imitate Nebojsa Malic with your style of writing, but you can't do near as well. You simply aren't as knowledgeable, nor will you ever be, as you don't seek truth.

9 posted on 12/30/2003 6:38:55 AM PST by joan
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To: forty_years
Is Tomislav Mercep paying for his crimes over Serbs?
10 posted on 12/30/2003 6:40:01 AM PST by joan
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To: forty_years
Geez, seems like any al-Qaida-loving moron can get an article published if he directs enough blind hatred at the Serbs.

Forget it, chumley, the Democrats are not going to win back the White House so there will be no more genocidal bombing campaigns against the Serbs.
11 posted on 12/30/2003 6:49:12 AM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: FormerLib
I think that forty_years is the author for several reasons. One is his comment which has the same tone and condescending questioning as the article does: "Same old, same old. When will they learn?"

Another reason is that forty_years posts a lot from that rather small website - it's had less than 3,000 visitors despite being around since mid-April, at least. (His first post on FR is from that site on April 14).

Look also at some of the hateful keywords listed after the article, which I have no doubt he added: BULLY, SERBTERRORISTS, TERRORISTSERBS... He had to add both "Serb Terrorists" and "Terrorist Serbs."

12 posted on 12/30/2003 7:08:10 AM PST by joan
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To: forty_years
One of Mercep's men, a free man, coming forward on his own, with no pressure, to describe what Croats did to Serbs in Croatia in 1991:

Confession of Miro Bajramovic

It is difficult to say how long we held prisoners. This depended on how long it took us to wear them out. In most cases we held them 4-5 days before we killed them. If they had survived, they would not have been normal. Serbs, who were good and loyal served us by digging graves, we told them that they were digging covers for machine guns. Once, one of the prisoners from Kutina said that this was the 15th or 16th cover that he was digging. He was executed on the spot. It wasn't up to him to count but to dig.

Self-interest was very popular at the moment. Thirty of us went some 50 meters in front of the first tank. We cleaned and executed everyone. After us there were others who called themselves "mercepovci", who stole from the houses and then burnt them. These were Ma­eralo and Rukavina ... Mercep told us to take everything away from the Serbs, and the money we found should be handed over to Headquarters for purchasing arms...

I could not say that mass executions were carried out in Pakracka Poljana. These were mostly groups of 7 to 10 people. It actually depended on how many people were in the prison at the time. Sometimes we executed people in their homes, and then blew up the house. There were no bodies left. There were many houses like this, mostly in the village of Bujavica...

It is my firm belief that if it hadn't been for the Zec family, nothing would have been known about Pakracka Poljana. It was the main key and the main reason why the unit has been looked at from this angle, and there were many Pakracka Poljanas in Croatia.

Yep, he says there were many "Pakracka Poljanas" in Croatia, which means there were many systematic genocides of Serb villages - Serbs were arrested to be interrogated, tortured, forced to dig their own graves, and then killed, or killed right away in their homes; then other Croats came by to loot the houses then burn them or blow them up, and the media was totally silent. Croats got away with genocide of Serbs and it shows in the census results - over 12.2% in 1991 to 4.5% in 2002.

Croats aren't paying today and they never paid for Jasenovac either.

13 posted on 12/30/2003 7:15:32 AM PST by joan
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To: joan; gitmogrunt; FormerLib; Banat; RussianConservative; Lion in Winter; monday
Yes, poor genocidal Serbs. As long as they are killing Muslims, it is OK. Except Croatia is 77% Catholic and Slovenia is 70% Catholic. You people are so twisted up with hatred, you ignore history. Big deal: The Muslims overran the Balkans 500 years ago. Are their descendents guilty and deserving of being murdered? This Free Republic is a bastion of bigotry and ignorance.
14 posted on 12/30/2003 7:44:18 AM PST by forty_years ('Nuff Talk, More Action!)
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To: forty_years
Yes poor Muslim, they only kill some 200,000 Serb in Bosnia this time around, did much better 50 years prior. Poor muslims, so many Jihadi fronts and so little time.
15 posted on 12/30/2003 7:57:42 AM PST by RussianConservative (Xristos: the Light of the World)
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To: forty_years
Do you know what the percentage of Muslims is in Bosnia today? The CIA factbook gives them 48%, which is an increase from what they had before the war. They weren't genocided. That was propaganda. Back when the 200,000 killed in Bosnia started to be used, around March 1992, George Kenney estimates it was 30,000-50,000, and this would include Serb soldiers and civilians.

From a 17,000 reported dead in January 1992, just two months later it became 200,000 by dropping the "and missing" from the 200,000 dead or missing. Further, UN officials on the ground say the level of killing was no where near justifying that increase.

Back in the early days of the Yugoslav wars, I was keeping count. American news reports began with 17,000 killed in Bosnia in early January 1993 after 9 months of civil war, then 20,000 at the end of the month. In early February 1993, the number was 145,000 "dead or missing" which by the end of the month became 200,000 "dead or missing. " And then in early March 1993, the words "or missing" were dropped and the number was established at 200,000 killed which has been repeated like a mantra ever since. General Satish Nambiar of India, who was the commander of the U.N. Protection Forces (UNPROFOR) during the period of March 1992 to March 1993, told me that he, his deputy General Lewis McKenzie, and his forces, did not witness any such level of killing. Former U.S. State Department official and head of the Yugoslav desk, George Kenney, assessed the total dead in Bosnia as somewhere between 30,000 and 50,000.

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/2001/Jul01/Thomas.htm


16 posted on 12/30/2003 8:02:19 AM PST by joan
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To: Admin Moderator; Sidebar Moderator; Jim Robinson; forty_years
forty_years writes: This Free Republic is a bastion of bigotry and ignorance.

Nice guy, comes into your house and says this sort of stuff.

17 posted on 12/30/2003 8:02:20 AM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: FormerLib
Show him door? If he is so dissatisfied.
18 posted on 12/30/2003 8:05:02 AM PST by RussianConservative (Xristos: the Light of the World)
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To: forty_years
Yes, how dare those Serbs defend themselves against terrorism!
19 posted on 12/30/2003 8:07:10 AM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: joan
Must be the "New Math" they teach over at DU.
20 posted on 12/30/2003 8:08:21 AM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: forty_years
Maybe the Serbs are just p*ssed off at NATO and the UN for screwing them over
21 posted on 12/30/2003 8:10:11 AM PST by bobjam
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To: forty_years
You really should do more research. The Serbian Radical Party are not ultra-nationalists or any such nonsense. They are just opposed to the infringments on Serbia's sovereignty, like forcing them to extradite their citizens to the Hague, which is a direct violation of their own constitution. This doesn't make them ultra-nationalists, it just makes them not traitors. The party's leaders have repeatedly stated they want a Serbia where ALL minorities enjoy equal rights, even those poor muslims the Serbs are supposed to hate so much.

22 posted on 12/30/2003 8:33:55 AM PST by Seselj
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To: Seselj
Makes you wonder why no one can ever site any numbers about the oppression of minorities within Serbia? Oh yeah, that's right, because there hasn't been any. Sort of odd if the Serbs are the sort of monsters these propagandists suggest, isn't it?

Any oppression against the Serbs in the Krajina? Oops!

Any ongoing oppression against the Serbs in NATO-occupied Kosovo-Metohija? Oops!
23 posted on 12/30/2003 8:48:36 AM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: forty_years; joan; gitmogrunt; FormerLib; Banat; RussianConservative; Lion in Winter; monday
Was it OK when Croatia worked with al-Qaeda?
24 posted on 12/30/2003 10:23:54 AM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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