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Town Refuses to Ask Citizens If Library Porn Should Be Filtered Out - Please Help Us!
Plan2Succeed.org ^ | 22 Dec 2003 | Plan2Succeed.org

Posted on 12/31/2003 1:58:40 AM PST by plan2succeed.org

Town Refuses to Ask Citizens If Library Porn Should Be Filtered Out; Plan2Succeed.org Seeking Pro Bono Counsel.


Something is wrong when a small group of people called a Library Board of Trustees determines that a public library must continue to allow access to pornography despite admittedly being outside the library's mission, the Township Committee claims it is powerless to stop the Board, and the citizens have no say.

(Excerpt) Read more at plan2succeed.org ...


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Government
KEYWORDS: 1984; bigbrother; boardoftrustees; bookburning; censorship; farenheit451; filtering; filters; firstamendment; goosesteppingmorons; internetfilters; library; libraryboard; nannystate; neoconnazis; orwellian; pornography; publiclibrary; towncouncil; townshipcommittee
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Will people please read the original article on how we should approach the problem of getting Internet filters into our public library? Can you believe it's even a problem? That's why we have joined the FreeRepublic.com, to find like-minded people to help us with our quest to protect children from the American Library Association and our local public library. Thank you very much.
1 posted on 12/31/2003 1:58:41 AM PST by plan2succeed.org
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To: plan2succeed.org
a) Send your child in to websurf. b) See that he/she finds some porno. c) Sue the library for 1 billion dollars for allowing a child to access porno. d) offer to drop your lawsuit if the library installs filters.

Good Luck!
2 posted on 12/31/2003 2:01:34 AM PST by clee1 (Where's the beef???)
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To: plan2succeed.org
I have a better idea. How about only allowing minors to use the computers when under adult supervision? That'll cut down on the porn-o-rama right quick.

These filters have a way of being biased toward the Left end of the spectrum. Try looking up any pro-Second Amendment site via a system that has content filtering in place.

3 posted on 12/31/2003 2:02:37 AM PST by Prime Choice (Americans are a spiritual people. We're happy to help members of al Qaeda meet God.)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: plan2succeed.org
plan2succeed somewhere else. Kindly stay away from my library system.
5 posted on 12/31/2003 2:07:33 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: little jeremiah
Held any "book-burnings" lately?
6 posted on 12/31/2003 2:12:19 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: plan2succeed.org
The ALA is a sick organization that provides recommended links to children that advise children how to perform dangerous sexual acts such as beastiality and oral sex on peoples anus. The federal government has additional money available if libraries wish to comply and provide filters for children. Does the city/county have any authority over the library? How is the library board of directors chosen? You will have a better chance going after politicians than you will library board. So hit the politicians who have control over library funding and/or staffing. I doubt if you will have any luck changine the minds of the poeple already on the board who are in lock step with the ALA and want to sexualize children and cater to the sickest of the sick sex acts.
7 posted on 12/31/2003 2:16:38 AM PST by Always Right
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To: Prime Choice
Prime Choice: adult supervision of children is fine but not the only issue. The fact is that many adults use the porn to harass other patrons and the staff. One library settled a sexual harassment law suit for over $600K caused by the use of unfiltered computers. Read our site to learn more about this. And as far as any bias by content filters, the US v. ALA US Supreme Court case allows the filters to be disabled by adults just to prevent such problems. There is no censorship where you just have to ask to disable the filters.
8 posted on 12/31/2003 2:20:16 AM PST by plan2succeed.org
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To: leadpenny
Actually, little children should be allowed to see any kind of pornography available on the internet, or in print. After all, it's a free country.

I mean, where would we be as a nation or people if pornography was in any way restricted? The horror of even contemplating the slightest restriction in even the most hard core sexually explicit, violent, degraded or perverted pornography! I mean, that's what the founders of this country had in mind when they wanted freedom of speech. The freedom of explicit, vile pornography for every little boy and girl!

Those leftist librarians are so right. Pornography - good. Ann Coulter's books - bad.
9 posted on 12/31/2003 2:21:48 AM PST by little jeremiah
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To: leadpenny
Buy your own freekin porno with your own freekin money and look at it in your own freekin house.
10 posted on 12/31/2003 2:22:35 AM PST by little jeremiah
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To: leadpenny
Held any "book-burnings" lately?

A library should be a safe place for children. Adults can get keys to turn off the filters. Burning legitimate pieces of literature and not providing children to pornography are two different things. There is no reason why taxpayers should be paying for something that allows pornography to children. I suppose you are for allowing kids to buy alcohol, pornography, and shoot why not drugs too while you are at it?

11 posted on 12/31/2003 2:23:29 AM PST by Always Right
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To: little jeremiah
I mean, where would we be as a nation or people if pornography was in any way restricted?

Why stop there. Why not have private rooms for pedophiles to have sex with children. As long as it is consenual what is the problem? I have no clue where libertarians draw the line and neither do libertarians.

12 posted on 12/31/2003 2:27:10 AM PST by Always Right
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To: plan2succeed.org
Prime Choice: adult supervision of children is fine but not the only issue.

It's not? Every time I see the library-porn flag raised, it's invariably "for the children."

The fact is that many adults use the porn to harass other patrons and the staff.

Fine. Ban the creeps, then. Causing a public nuisance is not protected speech.

One library settled a sexual harassment law suit for over $600K caused by the use of unfiltered computers.

So? The library shouldn't have been sued in the first place. It's about time people took responsibility for their own actions instead of shopping around for friendly judges and deep pockets.

Read our site to learn more about this.

I know plenty about it already, and I can't support the ridiculous notion that filters are going to do anything but cause more problems and raise expenses unnecessarily.

And as far as any bias by content filters, the US v. ALA US Supreme Court case allows the filters to be disabled by adults just to prevent such problems.

So it's okay in your view for the kiddies to be raised with the notion that their Second Amendment Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a BAD thing? Sorry, can't sign off on that.

There is no censorship where you just have to ask to disable the filters.

I never mentioned censorship. What I did mention is that these filters are inordinately Leftist in nature in terms of their pro-"safe sex", pro-abortion and anti-Second Amendment bias. I won't support that sort of rot being forced on anyone of any age.

13 posted on 12/31/2003 2:27:58 AM PST by Prime Choice (Americans are a spiritual people. We're happy to help members of al Qaeda meet God.)
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To: little jeremiah
Who's going to determine what "porno" is, a Library Filter Committee?
14 posted on 12/31/2003 2:28:56 AM PST by leadpenny
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Are you kidding? You want help to have the government decide what your children can read?

If you want your children not to have access to these things, supervise them or don't let them use the library computers.

This "for the children" stuff always ends up being an excuse for nanny government. Who decides where the line is drawn? You are delegating freedom to whatever a company making these filters decides should be off limits.
15 posted on 12/31/2003 2:28:56 AM PST by Da Mav
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To: leadpenny
Kudos, leadpenny. Wherever these people are I hope they stay there and don't come anywhere near here.
16 posted on 12/31/2003 2:30:44 AM PST by Da Mav
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To: Always Right
A library should be a safe place for children.

Agreed. So move the computers into the adult section and prohibit minors from accessing them. Problem solved with no expensive software or licensing fees.

17 posted on 12/31/2003 2:31:02 AM PST by Prime Choice (Americans are a spiritual people. We're happy to help members of al Qaeda meet God.)
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To: leadpenny
Who's going to determine what "porno" is, a Library Filter Committee?

Judging from the way most of these filtering database are written, pro-Second Amendment sites and even Free Republic itself are "porno" in their eyes.

Let us not forget that most conservative sites are labelled "hate sites" by these organizations that provide content filtering services.

That's why I'll never support their use for any purpose. Their Leftist bias is all too apparent.

18 posted on 12/31/2003 2:35:17 AM PST by Prime Choice (Americans are a spiritual people. We're happy to help members of al Qaeda meet God.)
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To: Always Right
Who's going to determine what "legitimate pieces of literature" are, a Library Filter Committee?
19 posted on 12/31/2003 2:35:23 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: leadpenny
Who's going to determine what "legitimate pieces of literature" are, a Library Filter Committee?

Considering that such committees will be comprised of the same people who proffer up Hillary Clinton's "Living History" while placing Ann Coulter's "Treason" in the canonical dustbin, I'd rather not have them making decisions on "legitimate literature" for me or mine.

20 posted on 12/31/2003 2:39:11 AM PST by Prime Choice (Americans are a spiritual people. We're happy to help members of al Qaeda meet God.)
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To: plan2succeed.org
The question is whether the public library should have nanny filters on its internet computers. First, it's still something of a novelty in some parts of the country for the public library to offer internet access at all and a great many libraries still can't or don't.

Second, the nanny filters have often been accused of being, well, a mite too efficient in blocking stuff out; students and adults might find that the filters keep them from doing serious research on a variety of non-risque topics. This is pretty much admitted by whoever worked up the original article because, throughout, "pornography" is typed out "p-rn-gr-phy" or something similar, the missing letters enable the word to sift past whatever nanny filters might be in use!

All things considered, in a public library or maybe I should say even in a public library, parents should exercise some supervision over their kids, to keep the little darling from sneaking out of the Children's Section into the grown-up collections with the adult stuff. And the same applies to internet surfing.

21 posted on 12/31/2003 2:39:25 AM PST by DonQ
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If you really think that kids are going to learn about this stuff because of the library computers, you need to sit down and talk with your kids about what is going on in their schools and among their playmates.

I raised four girls to strict standards. None were ever in any trouble, all are in their 20s now. It is not necessary to ask the government to raise our children and protect them from things we don't agree with. You open the door to this stuff and somebody shows up wanting to ban bambi because it causes hurtful feelings, and somebody else doesn't want NRA sites, and someone else mentions smoking, and then there is little Mermaid with 'hidden porno' and where does it stop?

600K for sexual harassment by a computer? How about Arizona oceanfront property? I suspect there is a lot more to the case than that.
22 posted on 12/31/2003 2:40:40 AM PST by Da Mav
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To: Always Right; little jeremiah
I'm in Prince William and Fairfax County libraries all the time. Internet stations are everywhere. I glance at what is going on, especially what young people have on their screens. Never seen a problem.
23 posted on 12/31/2003 2:40:41 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: Prime Choice
Prime Choice: So glad you noticed the issue is not only about the children but also about all citizens as well. You could be in the library when you are attacked by someone who had been viewing porn. It happens more often than you think because the media are not reporting such incidents. I encourage you to see our web site to become more fully educated on this issue and to address your other concerns.
24 posted on 12/31/2003 2:42:24 AM PST by plan2succeed.org
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To: plan2succeed.org
The media are not reporting attacks on people in the library? Is this some kind of joke?

Is this a conspiracy by the local newspaper where you live? Joe and Jane were attacked in the local library by a porn crazed patron but we aren't going to report it?

25 posted on 12/31/2003 2:45:09 AM PST by Da Mav
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To: plan2succeed.org
You could be in the library when you are attacked by someone who had been viewing porn.

Too many possible replies to that statement to even try.

26 posted on 12/31/2003 2:47:03 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: leadpenny
Who's going to determine what "legitimate pieces of literature" are, a Library Filter Committee?

There are several groups that already provide filtering, this isn't rocket science, but common sense.

27 posted on 12/31/2003 2:48:21 AM PST by Always Right
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No, the Filter Company decides what it will filter. If you are serious and not just trolling or pushing your web page you need to do some basic research and find out what you are talking about.

You can dress it up any way you want technically but in the end, somebody is going to decide which sites will be blocked, usually based on a market decision as to what the majority of consumers of the software might want blocked. Using majority opinion to decide freedom of speech is ludicrous; that's why there is a First Amendment. To protect us from people who think their version of "common sense" should apply to everyone.
28 posted on 12/31/2003 2:53:07 AM PST by Da Mav
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To: Always Right
The World and the Internet very messy. They are also wonderful creations. I could leave my home right now and find some really bad things out there. Likewise, I could leave FR and find some bad thing on the web. I'm making a choice to stay here. It's about choices! Freedom!
29 posted on 12/31/2003 2:54:52 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: plan2succeed.org
A European is quoted as saying "America is a country where you can't watch somebody kiss a t*t, but you can watch someone cut one off!"

Sad but true.
30 posted on 12/31/2003 2:58:39 AM PST by djf
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To: Prime Choice; little jeremiah
Buy your own freekin porno with your own freekin money and look at it in your own freekin house.
- little jeremiah

Judging from the way most of these filtering database are written, pro-Second Amendment sites and even Free Republic itself are "porno" in their eyes.
Prime Choice

Well Prime Choice, with all the "freakin" this and "freakin" that from people who can't see the big picture problem with their views, or even have a rational debate about them, it is no wonder why.

Little Jeremiah, changing the well known filthy word to "freakin" doesn't really change the tone of your statement. You should know that the person you responded to is not trying to preseve his right to "view porn." It is bigger than that.

Your inability to see that, and the juvenile response you issued to his challenge of your beliefs, paints your cause in a rather nasty light. You come off as a rabid nut with a serious problem when you talk like that. Nobody wants to grant people like you the right to restrict anything.

Grow up and understand the bigger issue at hand before assuming all on this board supports your belief that we all wish for the Nanny State that you seem to desire. Debate like an adult and you might get somewhere, or perhaps even see the probelem with your thought process, however well-meaning it may be.

31 posted on 12/31/2003 3:12:31 AM PST by bluefish
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To: plan2succeed.org
You could be in the library when you are attacked by someone who had been viewing porn. It happens more often than you think because the media are not reporting such incidents.


I'm a working journalist.

I'd give my eye teeth for a crazed-porno-fiend-attacks-granny-in-public-library story!

That would be front-page news faster than you can say "What a great yarn!"

Sorry - just as the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" of Hillary Clinton was a nonsense, so is the "The Evil Meeja Covers up stories conspiracy"

Sadim

Oh - and "plan2succeed.org member since December 31 2003":
do you consider it acceptable to join up just so you can promote your cause celebre? Isn't that a bit like spamming?
32 posted on 12/31/2003 3:21:38 AM PST by sadimgnik
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To: Always Right
I'll play devil's advocate here.

Why stop at filtering porn? Why not religious web sites as well...political pages, gun pages (and military recruitment pages too...they like guns, ya know?), maybe history pages (all of that violence with bombs and swords and stuff), pages dealing with cultural and political stuff (none of that marriage at 14, dssitent rage against powerful leaders and all of that)?

First, is there some written law about pornography that specifies an age limit for access to porn..like there is for a driver's license, alcohol or tobacco purchase?

Your everyday sitcom and talk show portrays a far more seedy and smutty scenario than a naked chick and perhaps a copulating couple (Springer comes to mind!) Ditto the sexual innuendo and vaguely cloaked erotica taht garners Emmys and Grammys and such.

Porno? Your 42nd president cornored the market on porno and the use of inanimate objects in sexual rtituals (as well as showed kids that oral sex "isn't really sex" and that lying under oath is an acceptable practice...and the elected congress validated those notions by failing to address and demand accountability for those actions.

The Supreme Court has difficulty defining ponography. Right or wrong, there are laws addressing internet content and, thus far, porn seems toevade any restrictions.

No...I do not want kids googling at porn (though every adolescent male since the founding of this country has hidden Playboy, Penthouse (and before that, Stag, etc.) u9nder his mattress (and Mom knew it was there but either fialed to confiscate it or ask about it).

Locking filters? Farenheit 451?

I'm don;t care for Big Brother further structuring my life. I especially don't care for any group of non-elected, self appointed "citizens" telling the libary what they can maintain and what they can't. When freedom of press (and librarys are indeed press) becomes directed by a vigilante group, we have a far greater problem that a little smut.
33 posted on 12/31/2003 3:23:10 AM PST by NMFXSTC
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To: leadpenny
Funny filter story.

The school my eldest boy (years ago) went to uses filters. When he 13 or so, he came home with a note telling me that he was suspended for three days for looking at naked women on the computers at school. I asked how this could be since the school utilizes filters.

His reply was as he smiled at me, "The filters don't work on tattoo sites and there are bunches of naked women on them."

I asked him who thought up this way to circumvent the filters? He stated, "It was my idea dad." I yelled at him, but I gave him extra points for creativity. };O)

In a wierd twist, the school suspended his suspension. The county science fair was that weekend and he had one of the best projects in the county, so they said they would forgive and forget.
34 posted on 12/31/2003 3:25:14 AM PST by BushCountry (To the last, I will grapple with Democrats. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at Liberals.)
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To: sadimgnik
It is a bit like spamming, and I was ready to report it, I don't like the idea of any political organization using FreeRepublic, conservative or liberal. As I understand it, this is supposed to be a meeting place for individuals, not a place for pacs to promote their cause.
35 posted on 12/31/2003 3:29:49 AM PST by djf
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To: plan2succeed.org
Prime Choice,

Do those voices in your head bother folks around you? Please, tell us how many of these attacks (by those terrible library regulars viewing porn, becoming sexually frenzied and attacking other library patrons) have happened all over this country of ours!

Do you notice that almost everyone weaing a jacket also is carrying a concealed weapon as well? Probably the case, don't you think?

And those cell phones!!! No question about it...it's a government conspiracy to fry our brains and make us subserviant to government desires.

Prozac is a good thing, Prime! Lithium is even better! You may want to look into those!
36 posted on 12/31/2003 3:31:26 AM PST by NMFXSTC
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To: BushCountry
Good story and congrats on how you handled it. The most important thing about that encounter is good parental influence.
37 posted on 12/31/2003 3:31:47 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: NMFXSTC
To be honest, you guys need to chill. I suspect that this person has a good heart, just misdirected. There is no need to be so harsh.
38 posted on 12/31/2003 3:33:31 AM PST by BushCountry (To the last, I will grapple with Democrats. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at Liberals.)
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To: Da Mav
Also who is going to stop the people who make up the banned lists from looking the other way at a site that may "pay" them for their "research".

I have a better idea. How about the parents taking some responsibility or removing the computers from the children's section. I grew up without a computer in my library and seemed to do ok.
39 posted on 12/31/2003 3:34:18 AM PST by MizzouTigerRepublican (82nd ABN Gulf war vet)
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To: Da Mav
And filters are quite cirumventable...a transposed letter, an inserted numbber...voila...no filter! (Remember Napster and the substitution of "dc/ac" for AC-DC, or rOllInG SToneZ???
40 posted on 12/31/2003 3:34:22 AM PST by NMFXSTC
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To: BushCountry
Oh, I'm sure Prime has a good heart...bleeding, of course. Point is, with all the complaint of tax payer money, the easy work around of filters, the natural curiosity of adolescents, this band of moral monitors is worse than porn...at least porn is a choice...they offer none...just a total ban and imposition of their standards...kinda like the WTU gals did, eh?
41 posted on 12/31/2003 3:40:06 AM PST by NMFXSTC
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To: leadpenny
If you want access to porn, you do it in your house. That is a right to privacy. If you want it in a public library, too damn bad. There are certain things which are acceptable in public and then there are certain things which are acceptable in private. Do you want to sleep with your girlfriend/wife in public? Do you somehow think you have a RIGHT to do that? This is not book burning. It is common sense, of which you are apparently lacking.
42 posted on 12/31/2003 3:40:12 AM PST by milan
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To: little jeremiah
Cute. You forgot a sarcasm tag for those too stupid to figure it out.
43 posted on 12/31/2003 3:41:10 AM PST by milan
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To: milan
"There are certain things which are acceptable in public and then there are certain things which are acceptable in private."

RIGHT! But damned if I want sme non-elected, non-judicial "band of citizens" telling anyone what is acceptable...see MY stance?
44 posted on 12/31/2003 3:42:36 AM PST by NMFXSTC
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To: leadpenny
Who's going to determine what "porno" is, a Library Filter Committee?

Uh oh. Someone doesn't know what porn is. Actually something tells me you know exactly what it is.

45 posted on 12/31/2003 3:43:02 AM PST by milan
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To: plan2succeed.org
I just can't get onboard with putting filters or blockers on computers. Our local library recently did that and it's almost impossible for me to do any but the most basic work there.

I work in news and do a LOT of research. That includes going to some websites that may be less than child friendly...fark.com and fazed.com come to mind. Or how about The Sun online that has the page 3 girls? I've even picked up stories from Rotten.com. All of thouse are blocked on the library computers.

Of course so are sites like megaproxy...or movie websites like ioFilm.com as well as askmen.com. What if I want to shop for lengerie? Victoria's secret is blocked on our library's computers.

It'a ll ion the name of protecting the children. Just like Hillary and the ratz cry..."But think of the children!"

Thing is it's and ADULT WORLD. Parents need to supervise their kidz. If a library wants to have keys of some kind that allow adults unlimited access - which is what I believe the net should be - that's fine. But to go ahead and block everyone is just plain wrong.

Let me toss this out. If libraries should have the power to limit access to certain types of info, I would suppose that would include not just porn but graphic violence as well. I'm thinking morgue photos, or gruesome, bloody photos of people who have met with an unfortunate, grisely end. Would that include restricting access to photos of aborted children? The same pictures are used quite often in public...where everyone including children can view them.

Or what about pictures from those films some of us had to watch in dirver's ed classes? Horrible pictures of people involved in drunk driving accidents?

And finally what about medical journals? They can be quite graphic from several perspectives, but contain and display invaluable information.

prisoner6

46 posted on 12/31/2003 3:45:34 AM PST by prisoner6 (Right Wing Nuts hold the country together as the loose screws of the left fall out!)
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To: DonQ
Second, the nanny filters have often been accused of being, well, a mite too efficient in blocking stuff out; students and adults might find that the filters keep them from doing serious research on a variety of non-risque topics

Anybody doing legitimate research does not go to the library to do it. They have access from home. All these arguments are nuts. I run "We-Blocker" at my house and sometimes it filters a bit harsh. Oh well, I guess my children will have to choose one of the other 100,000 sites that come up in the search. Get real.

What's wrong with this too: "I have to do a research paper on sex, could you please disable the filter or send me to the private room?"

47 posted on 12/31/2003 3:47:49 AM PST by milan
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To: milan
We're almost back to square one. Who's gonna define porn?

And, who's gonna define "common sense?"
48 posted on 12/31/2003 3:48:08 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: plan2succeed.org
You have a responsibility to supervise your child's use of the Internet. The library exists for the public, not just children. The library must allow free access to information even if you do not like that information. Once you succeed in getting "porn filters" will another pressure group arise to demand "Islamic filters". I hope you get the point. Once you start to censor what one group can have access to, the right of access by everyone is in jeopardy. And FYI, children do not control any part of the society; parents do, and that includes controlling the children.
49 posted on 12/31/2003 3:52:17 AM PST by NetValue (They're not Americans, they're democrats.)
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To: milan
Uh oh. Someone doesn't know what porn is. Actually something tells me you know exactly what it is.

Yeah, I know what porn is. It's some jack-booted thug who gets all exercised about what other people believe.

50 posted on 12/31/2003 3:52:59 AM PST by leadpenny
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