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How Free is Free Republic
kuro5hin.org ^ | Mon Dec 29th, 2003 at 09:53:55 PM EST | felixrayman

Posted on 12/31/2003 12:12:28 PM PST by visagoth

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To: bolobaby
No, probably not wrong to feel that way, although I think you are missing what went down here. It wasn't that post which got the dude nuked. It was all of his posts, taken together. It was clear from them taken in aggregate that he was here to troll (I particularly liked the post which denounced any claim the founding of the US had to liberty to be null and void because slavery existed- I guess we need to repudiate all the wisdom of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle as well).

When a newbie is trolling, they get nuked. It removes all of their posts. And looking at the Abuse log, I see that the post you are mentioning wasn't one of the ones the moderator listed as evidence of the trolling.

51 posted on 12/31/2003 1:04:54 PM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: visagoth
Free Republic is an honest and free site.

As anyone can search and find I disagree with all of W's domestic fiscal policies.

I am rarely attacked personally for my views and my posts are responded to honestly and with some good debate.

It’s a great site that is open to honest debate.

Its does not however put up with nonsense and disruption.

If one signs up at DU for instance, you cannot post until you have some time and any and all dissenting opinions are pulled.
53 posted on 12/31/2003 1:05:39 PM PST by Kay Soze (I am so old that I can recall when the GOP was a conservative political party!)
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To: Jim Robinson
Thanks for all you do, Jim.

Happy New Year!
54 posted on 12/31/2003 1:08:37 PM PST by Right_in_Virginia
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To: ChuckHam
If I want to wallow in the sewer I can go to DU.

"Hey Ralph! If this keeps up they'll give sewers a bad name."


55 posted on 12/31/2003 1:08:51 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (Give me my sweater back...or I'll play the guitar.)
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To: visagoth
"but with an explicitly conservative bias."
No! He doesn't say!
And this little gem:
[I responded to this poster with the comment "Individual liberty? Didn't the constitution as written specifically allow for the continuation of slavery as an American institution"?]

Interesting fishing expedition he was on.
If anyone had -God forbid- agreed with him, he'd have been saying that conservatives were racist rather than whining about his stupid remark being pulled.
His trolldom and provocation was bad enough, but to claim that FreeRepublic isn't free is idiotic.
Guess his reading comprehension of the opening page is about zero.
Besides, his slavery comment goes counter to this little reminder below the posting button:
"Please: NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts."

What did he expect would happen?
We'd all hold hands with him and sing Kumbaya?
*LOL!*
What a whining dweeb he is.
Must've had his lunch money stolen one too many times when he was a young larva.
56 posted on 12/31/2003 1:09:08 PM PST by Darksheare (Democrat is between Demise and Demon in the dictionary.)
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To: visagoth
We've had a constant stream of trolls from that site posting hit-and-run rants right out of the Socialist Workers' handbook.

That site = insignificant.

This site = a vibrant home of conservatism on the web.

So they whine and cry... what else is new?
57 posted on 12/31/2003 1:09:30 PM PST by thoughtomator ("I will do whatever the Americans want because I saw what happened in Iraq, and I was afraid"-Qadafi)
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To: visagoth
A good answer is, how long would a post like this survive on the democratic underground. Or better yet how long your posting privilages would last when you deviate from the democratic talking points memo?

Be a democrat who supports the war on terror and things going into Iraq was a pretty good thing strategically and see how long you'll be allowed to post.

Democrats don't care about debate and free exchange of ideas, only that you stick with the party line.

You get it all here on free republic, the good the bad and the ugly. Which means I not only know all the democratic talking points about how dean was right that we're not safer today because of Sadam but I also know exactly why all those talking points are wrong because they've been so thouroughly disected and dismembered here :)

Democratic leaders allow their followers only to parrot and not disent (see the ostrisization of Zell Miller for an example -- in fact go over to the DU and make a post about how mabye Zell Miller is right and see how long the post and your account lasts) and Republicans tend to encourage coherent thought, at least in my experience. This is one of the great reasons why Democrats are in such a terrible bind right now.

So how free is the free republic? Not completely free, but while the democratic underground is busy calling the FR nazis (while a post like this debates the very nature of the board itself) the moderators over on the DU actually are over there busilly burning posts and thoughts and disent the moment they stray from the party line.

I think that's a pretty good answer.
58 posted on 12/31/2003 1:12:43 PM PST by pcx99
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To: visagoth
I will try to be as polite as possible here...

Me too ... I believe in peace .....

but please read Post 9

I did. My question was not for you but rhetorically for the person whose comments you introduced in this forum. Reread your title for this thread. If you don't want people to respond to your thread, why did you bother to post it ?

59 posted on 12/31/2003 1:20:31 PM PST by af_vet_1981
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To: af_vet_1981
Reread your title for this thread. If you don't want people to respond to your thread, why did you bother to post it ?

Simple... because it was the original title of the 'article' of the source. I recall that using original titles is SOP here at FR.


60 posted on 12/31/2003 1:23:51 PM PST by visagoth (If you think education is expensive - try ignorance)
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To: Lead Moderator; Jim Robinson
As a 71 year old woman who "discovered" FR in November of 2002 it has been a life saver.

I feel much more informed on everything than I did before FR and living in ultra-liberal Newton,MA I often wondered if anyone out there thought like I do. Through this site I find that there are many of us.

My small donations to FR won't make anyone rich but the hours of pleasure and insight that I've gained from FR have been very important to me.I consider the money well spent.

Thanks to all at FR and Happy New Year.

Mears

61 posted on 12/31/2003 1:25:05 PM PST by Mears
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To: Lead Moderator
Thanks for the info. Out of curiosity, is he giving the full picture? I'm wondering about "the rest of the story":

1. Were the sentences he quoted the *entire* replies he made, or in his blast did he "happen to" leave out the more inflammatory parts of his posts?

2. Did he make more than just the three posts he admits to, or did he "forget" to mention others that might not have been more obnoxious?

3. When he whines that each of his posts was removed "within minutes", he neglects to say whether they were made and removed at separate times, or whether (as I suspect) he made them all in a shotgun approach and then he and his posts were all removed at the same time shortly thereafter.

The answers don't matter when it comes to helping me decide whether he should have been removed -- what is known already was sufficient grounds for considering him a troll, and his own confession only confirms that the moderators were dead-on -- but if he has "shaded" the events in his favor his omissions should be exposed.

62 posted on 12/31/2003 1:35:15 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: visagoth
I responded to this poster with the comment "Individual liberty? Didn't the constitution as written specifically allow for the continuation of slavery as an American institution"?

This guy is good! But not good enough. I tend to agree that the moderators were perhaps quick on the trigger, but it's their prerogative and whiners take note.
The above example is beautiful to illustrate this fellow's technique. He veils a criticism of our basic national identy as an answer, although it is irrelevant and discordant with the question. Individual liberty and slavery are mutually exclusive concepts in our current world but not in the 18th century. It has nothing to do with the original thought and redirects, or attempts to redirect the dialogue to the defensive, and is the same technique the sandmaggots use constantly, comparing present day barbarity with 13th century "Christian" excesses. A mind boggling leap of ignorance, but perfectly fitting a highly tuned sophistry.
The good news is that it depends entirely on ignorance, and partially on intellectual dexterity. The way to deal with "shotgun" irrationality (throwing out the same 12 "issues" into every discussion) is to simply ignore it and concentrate on one issue at a time. It's not difficult, and the legends-in-their-own-mind hate it. All the more reason to employ it.

I do hope that this clown is allowed to post again, to be humiliated as is his destiny. Some people are educated waaaaay beyond their intelligence.

63 posted on 12/31/2003 1:45:22 PM PST by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: visagoth
What makes you think that Free Republic champions free speech? Where in its charter does it say that? Remember, you're on private property here, using other peoples' resources. I'd say that gives those people the right to make the rules.

Sorry if that offends your egalitarian sensibilities.

Nah, not really.

64 posted on 12/31/2003 1:47:09 PM PST by IronJack
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To: Lead Moderator
Since we (more specifically, I) don't have access to the totality of the comments posted, I cannot question your decision identifying him as a troll.

But I do agree with his criticism that his comments did not run afoul of the posting constraints.

I'm left wondering why not ban the account and leave the posts?

I have found posters I consider to the right and left of my views on this forum, sometimes varying given the topic being discussed (foreign policy, economics, social policy, etc.). I enjoy the exchange in all cases, including those that engage in fallacious argument.

For that I thank FR.

65 posted on 12/31/2003 1:47:11 PM PST by optimistically_conservative (Nothing is as expensive as a free government service or subsidized benefit.)
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To: visagoth
I like this comment from that thread:
I agree with you that they're intellectual cowards, but my question is, why did you have to post there to tell that about them? Oh, I see... you got suckered in by the hope that somewhere, there MUST be some neocons who aren't yellow-bellied tank-brains.
Oh yes, the discussion here would be *so* improved if we were were only "brave" enough to let in folks whose idea of intellectual discussion is to call everyone "neocons" who are "yellow-bellied tank-brains".

At least a third of the other posts in that thread are along the same vein: "We're much more mature than those conservative poo-poo heads."

66 posted on 12/31/2003 1:49:12 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Mears
Happy New Year to you!
67 posted on 12/31/2003 1:54:04 PM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: Lead Moderator
When you guys Zot someone and his posts disappear, can the Mods still see his posts and the content of them?
68 posted on 12/31/2003 1:56:08 PM PST by Darksheare (Democrat is between Demise and Demon in the dictionary.)
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To: Lead Moderator
For the sake of those rather new to FR (I originally signed up years ago but never really participated on the site until I rediscovered it last week), what does it mean to be nuked, and how is that different from being banned or zotted? I read the Free Republic lexicon but it didn't have any info on this. Thanks on behalf of all the new folks....
69 posted on 12/31/2003 1:56:26 PM PST by AQGeiger
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To: Owl_Eagle
Wish I could post images so I could post a pic of
my
bottle of Laphroaig!

Na na na na

70 posted on 12/31/2003 1:58:44 PM PST by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: optimistically_conservative
In some instances we will leave some posts up. As always, if something is pulled you feel should stay, let us know. We can restore specific things. (remember, one troll isn't our only task) Sometimes, there are many posts and to pick and choose; which stay and which are removed can be daunting. Especially with newbie trolls, and for the most part they return over and over. Why bother with their tripe when they just return so many times? So, if something is pulled and you'd like to see it restored, just ask, we can review, and most of the time, we will restore it.
71 posted on 12/31/2003 2:00:06 PM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: AQGeiger
A nuke is a ban where all the posts are removed by the system as well as the account being removed.

A ban is a nuke where the account goes but the posts stay up.

72 posted on 12/31/2003 2:00:53 PM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: Publius6961
*gasp!*
Scandalous!!
73 posted on 12/31/2003 2:01:34 PM PST by Darksheare (Democrat is between Demise and Demon in the dictionary.)
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To: isthisnickcool
And just look at the house Robinson bought!

Hey! Don't you know you can get sued for posting that picture on a public forum! :-)

74 posted on 12/31/2003 2:02:38 PM PST by ladyinred (God Bless our Troops!)
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To: visagoth
I remember this post. It was dumb. We need to see unfriendly news stories posted here, under the principle of knowing your enemy, but we don't need the querelous complaints of left-wing individuals who wouldn't know what rational argument was if it bit them in the foot.
75 posted on 12/31/2003 2:04:29 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Darksheare
Yes, there is one option we rarely use though, which is the 'wipe' reply function. We use that for really large graphics, porn, addresses or personal information, etc. Once we wipe a reply, no one can see it. I don't even think John can.
76 posted on 12/31/2003 2:04:39 PM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: Mears
As one old timer to another, bless you and belated welcome to FR. Should I ever be acerbic with you, please don't take it personally.
Best wishes for a great 2004. And many more.
77 posted on 12/31/2003 2:06:41 PM PST by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: Admin Moderator
Cool.
Sounds neat, not sure I'd be able to make sense of it at all myself.
78 posted on 12/31/2003 2:08:09 PM PST by Darksheare (Democrat is between Demise and Demon in the dictionary.)
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To: visagoth
Somehow I doubt the posts pulled were as elegant as what he is claiming. Simply pointing out a factual error wouldn't make him be targeted as a troll. He was saying some other things in addition to that, obviously.
79 posted on 12/31/2003 2:11:04 PM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: Publius6961
Thanks for your welcome and don't worry about being acerbic. I take nothing personally at my age,it makes life much easier to manage.

Happy New Year to you too!!!!
80 posted on 12/31/2003 2:11:12 PM PST by Mears
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To: visagoth
Good job. Keep deleting their posts and throwing them out. They don't get it. They never will.

Happy New Year and God bless to all.

81 posted on 12/31/2003 2:12:33 PM PST by Do Be
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To: Mears
I must agree with you. Like most here at FR, I am not a member of the 'sheeple' population, and I research everything I can to make an informed decision. I lurked here a long time before joining for that reason. After I had read, researched, and felt my IQ growing ( ;-) ) I determined that JimRob is definitely one of the good guys, and FR is a great place. I wish I could make JimRob rich...he's done a great thing here for not only for we conservatives, but news addicts as well.
82 posted on 12/31/2003 2:15:42 PM PST by kimmie7 (I need more time, more coffee, and more bandwidth!)
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To: Admin Moderator
As always, if something is pulled you feel should stay, let us know.

Thanks!

83 posted on 12/31/2003 2:16:35 PM PST by optimistically_conservative (Nothing is as expensive as a free government service or subsidized benefit.)
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To: Britton J Wingfield
A few of them. Others over there are venting their frustration that their efforts at disruption have failed as they have been subject to the ZOT.
84 posted on 12/31/2003 2:23:29 PM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: Britton J Wingfield
Apparently they had a mass exodus of lefties to some other site, equaling things out a bit.

Do you know where to? Just curious.

85 posted on 12/31/2003 2:26:22 PM PST by Dont Mention the War
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To: Lead Moderator
Exactly as I suspected. Thanks for the info.
86 posted on 12/31/2003 2:26:43 PM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: Dont Mention the War
to http://www.hulver.com/scoop

according to one poster in the thread in question.

Haven't really looked at it, though.

87 posted on 12/31/2003 2:33:35 PM PST by Britton J Wingfield
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To: ChuckHam
I have trouble with this as I have always played the devil's advocate. It just seems to be how I look at life so I do not do well on this type thing. I can still hear my father asking us,'What is that thing on top of your head for if not to think.' We always needed a better reason than everyone does or said, in growing up.
88 posted on 12/31/2003 2:34:59 PM PST by sawyer
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To: Richard Kimball
I've posted quite a few things that are not necessarily within the FR scope, and have never even been warned. However, I've also been around here for a while, and it seems to me that long-time posters get more leeway. I can't think of any forum where you can go in and start throwing bombs immediately, and not be banned.

Quite right. On a lot of discussion sites, mailing lists in particular, newbies are automatically put on probationary status the moment they register, and all their posts must be approved by a moderator before anyone can read them. Only when they are deemed to be nondisruptive are they taken off probation.

89 posted on 12/31/2003 2:35:04 PM PST by Dont Mention the War
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To: Mannaggia l'America
It got me ticked because you can call me anything you want, but if you label me as anything other than conservative, I'm going to get ticked.

Communist Anarchist! . . . . . . . . just kidding. :-)

90 posted on 12/31/2003 2:40:57 PM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: visagoth; Lead Moderator
If we were a free country and IF we never had liberals and IF everyone had followed the Constitution instead of rewriting it - we'd have a federal government the size of a pea and we wouldn't have a Free Republic web site because it wouldn't be needed. And I would have retired at age 40 because the US growth rates would be 20%/year - poverty would have been long gone and wouldn't be typing this.



91 posted on 12/31/2003 2:42:04 PM PST by The Raven
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To: Jim Robinson
Thank you Jim for making FR the only place I spend hours visiting.
92 posted on 12/31/2003 2:44:41 PM PST by CyberAnt (America is the greatest force for good on the planet ..!!)
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To: visagoth
LOL. Liberals learn the hard way that uninformed, unintelligent commentary is not suffered on Free Republic. Coherent dissent that is well thought through will gladly be entertained. Unfortunately, what passes for "intelligence" amongst liberal rabble are half-baked conspiracy theories, naiviety on matters of national security and foreign policy, and knee-jerk opposition to Bush's policy consisting of hollow, laughable accusations.

If the charge is that we do not suffer fools gladly at FR, I plead guilty.
93 posted on 12/31/2003 2:46:42 PM PST by jagrmeister (I'm not a conservative. I don't seek to conserve, I seek to reform.)
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To: BobFromNJ
"try to hard to be heard"

Because they believe that being "heard" is Free Speech. Free Speech is the RIGHT TO SPEAK, not the RIGHT TO BE HEARD. Liberals haven't figured that out.
94 posted on 12/31/2003 2:46:58 PM PST by CyberAnt (America is the greatest force for good on the planet ..!!)
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To: Richard Kimball
"The scope of FR allows a pretty wide range of debate. If I were to characterize it, though, I'd say it's closer to libertarian-anarchist than conservative."

I would disagree. Its just that the word "conservative" has been redefined. cf: CPAC.

95 posted on 12/31/2003 2:55:22 PM PST by sauropod (Excellence in Shameless Self-Promotion)
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To: Lead Moderator
Thank you for the clarification. 'Pod.
96 posted on 12/31/2003 2:57:48 PM PST by sauropod (Excellence in Shameless Self-Promotion)
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To: Rebelbase
kuro5hin is left-wing? stupid mods.
97 posted on 12/31/2003 3:06:47 PM PST by glannon
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To: CyberAnt
LOL- how right you are. DH & I discuss this often. Also no one is required to furnish a platform for what one wants to say. Lefties don't get that either.
98 posted on 12/31/2003 3:11:18 PM PST by Annie03 (donate at www.terrisfight.org)
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To: visagoth
One breif section of the four screen pages of rules at DU:


They sure have alot of rules for liberals!


WHO IS WELCOME ON DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND, AND WHO IS NOT

We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals.

This is a "big tent" message board. We welcome a wide range of progressive opinion. You will likely encounter many points of view here that you disagree with.

We ban conservative disruptors who are opposed to the broad goals of this website. If you think overall that George W. Bush is doing a swell job, or if you wish to see Republicans win, or if you are generally supportive of conservative ideals, please do not register to post, as you will likely be banned.

If you have been banned from Democratic Underground, you are not permitted to log on again using a different username. Previously banned members will be immediately banned, regardless of behavior.

People who repeatedly and willfully break the rules, or who generally engage in rude, antisocial behavior, will be banned. It doesn't matter if you are a progressive or a long-term member of this board.
99 posted on 12/31/2003 3:17:08 PM PST by Kay Soze (I am so old that I can recall when the GOP was a conservative political party!)
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To: visagoth
My reply that "Actually it's pretty obvious that the capture of Saddam hasn't made the world safer - international airline flights had to be cancelled a few days ago due to threats of terrorism and in Iraq the last few days have been as bloody for coalition forces as the days before Saddam's capture" was removed by a moderator within a few minutes.

Boo frickin' hoo.

The capture of Saddam won't end ALL evil in the world and only a simpleton would extrapolate the statement that "the capture of Saddam has made the world safer" to mean so.

So far another despot, Lybia's Qadaffi, has seen the writing on the wall and helped to make the world safer by ending his own WMD program. Saddam won't personally pose a threat either as he is in custody and those who held out hope that he would return to power have been proven wrong.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

100 posted on 12/31/2003 4:07:43 PM PST by weegee
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