Maine:Move to overturn smoking ban in bars stalls

Bangor Daily News ^ | 1-2-03

[SheLion]

AUGUSTA - A petition drive to snuff out the state's ban on smoking in bars has stalled and will fail to meet a Feb. 2 deadline for putting the issue on the November ballot, an organizer said.Instead, the Maine Freedom Committee will submit the signatures to the Legislature in 2005 in hopes lawmakers will amend the law or send it to voters, said Stavros Mendros of the Maine Freedom Committee.

Mendros, a former Republican lawmaker from Lewiston, said the campaign didn't have funding to meet this year's deadline for petitions.
"The money wasn't there," Mendros said. "It's hard to do it with an all-volunteer effort."

Initially, the group hoped to overturn the law through a "people's veto," which would have required them to turn in signatures last September. When they were unable to make that deadline, their next chance became February, which would have put them on the ballot in November.

The delay signals that the campaign to gather signatures and stop the smoking ban hasn't gone well.

"I do believe it does spell doom for this effort," said Becky Birrell Smith, program coordinator for the Maine Coalition on Smoking or Health. "In every other state and municipality that's enacted this type of legislation, the popularity of the ban increases month by month."

Mendros said that on Election Day in November, the group gathered 10,000 to 20,000 signatures. But they would need 50,519 valid signatures to have the issue placed on a ballot.

Julie Flynn, deputy secretary of state, said the group has one year from the day they took out the petitions to gather signatures. That gives them a deadline of Oct. 16, 2004.

If the signatures are approved, they would then be presented to the Legislature in February 2005.

State health officials, legislators and anti-smoking groups supported the bill, in part, to protect the health of people who work in bars and are subjected to smoke every day.

Mendros, who does not smoke, said people who work in bars know what to expect.

"Most everyone I know, whether they smoke or not, is against it," he said.

Enforcement of the smoking ban was supposed to begin on New Year's Day. 

Individual violators face a fine of $100 per offense and bars owners face a fine of $100 a day that they are not in compliance.

The bigger concern for bar owners, however, is that running afoul of the smoking ban is a violation of state liquor law. The ultimate penalty would be the suspension or revocation of a liquor license.

(Snitch Line)An assistant state attorney general has been assigned to work on compliance full time. Citizens can get in the act by reporting violators at (800) 560-5269 or by logging a complaint at www.tobaccofreemaine.org. (Snitch Line)

[SheLion]

Anyone who uses the Tip Snitch Line to turn in a fellow neighbor/business owner should be very proud of themselves.

If someone was turned in for using cocaine or pot, I could understand it. But a legal product? What's next? A snitch line for Pepsi drinkers?

[SheLion]

At least this group tried it's best. It's not like everyone just sat on their hands and did nothing. :(

[Gabz]

Mendros, a former Republican lawmaker from Lewiston, said the campaign didn't have funding to meet this year's deadline for petitions. "The money wasn't there," Mendros said. "It's hard to do it with an all-volunteer effort."

Of course the money wasn't there Mr. Mendros - it was all sucked up by the proponents of this idiocy.

[headsonpikes]

I would hope there'll be a snitch line set up to turn in the snitchers. ;^)

Fair's fair.

[SheLion]

I would hope there'll be a snitch line set up to turn in the snitchers. ;^)

One gal suggested that out-of-staters use the snitch line to tell them that Maine USED to be on the list for vacation spots. But no more! Sounds like a great idea to me!!

[waterstraat]

So what happens if someone lights up a cigarette in a bar? Does the owner call the police? Do the police have to actually see the patron taking a drag on the cigarette in order to fine him? If the customer leaves before the police arrive, do the police go after him in hot persuit? Does the owner of the bar have the right to physically hold/restrain the customer from leaving until the police arrive?

[SheLion]

I wrote to the Governor about this last year. He was too busy (?) to answer me. He had the Department of Human Services answer me instead. heh!

An uneven playing field for whom? It was working. Everyone was happy. The restaurants were forced to go smoke free, so those of us who smoke were able to frequent our local Tavern's for a good meal and relaxation. Now, since "they" want a "level playing field," we no longer have a choice.

Drinking and smoking in Bars/Sports Clubs/Tavern's go hand-in-hand. People who drink but don't smoke do not need to go to a bar to drink if they don't want to be around smokers.

Being able to go to a Tavern to enjoy a good meal, a beverage of our choice and enjoy a cigarette was our way of relaxation. Non-smokers have ALL the restaurants in this state where they can go and not be around smokers. Now, there is no place left to go for people who choose to use a legal product. And the business owners are going to be out of revenue because of this.

[waterstraat]

Do any of the bars in Maine have parking lots? If so, then why? Is it against the law to drink and drive in Maine? Why would any bar need a parking lot in a state which prohibits drinking and driving?

[Ditter]

I hate cigarette smoke but you are absolutely correct. Smoking in bars & taverns should be allowed. Smoking & drinking go together.

[Eowyn-of-Rohan]

It is absolutely insane.... It is like prohibition in the 1920s and I can't imagine it will stay this way forever.. I think of all the things that are not good for us--pesticides in people's yards and on the food we eat, factory induced pollution, etcetc, that are more harmful than getting a whiff of someone's cigarette, and I wonder WHY these anti smoking lobbyists are getting their way all over the country!! Smoking is LEGAL. Why can't a business owner decide what kind of business they want if it is LEGAL? Strip joints are OK, gambling is OK, getting smashed is ok, but smoking is not? Non smokers can STAY away from places where there is smoke if they want to --PLEASE!! Why are we allowing this to happen? whether people smoke or not, they should object to this infringement on rights...

[SheLion]

Do any of the bars in Maine have parking lots? If so, then why? Is it against the law to drink and drive in Maine? Why would any bar need a parking lot in a state which prohibits drinking and driving?

Super good point!

And yes, they ALL have parking lots.  That's a very good point you make.

Do any of the bars in Maine have parking lots? If so, then why? Is it against the law to drink and drive in Maine? Why would any bar need a parking lot in a state which prohibits drinking and driving?

Super good point!

And yes, they ALL have parking lots.  That's a very good point you make.

[SheLion]

I hate cigarette smoke but you are absolutely correct. Smoking in bars & taverns should be allowed. Smoking & drinking go together.

All the restaurants were forced into a smoking ban in 1999.  A lot of them went out of business.  But the smokers were left with Taverns who bought very expensive liquor licenses and spent thousands of dollars on remodeling to install huge smoke eaters in order to accommodate ALL of their patrons.

But, that still wasn't good enough for the state of Maine.  They can't balance their state budget without the cigarette taxes that smokers pay, yet the state is using these tax dollars to ban, restrict and control people who choose to buy a legal product.

Level playing field?  For who?  It sure isn't going to "level out" the revenues lost by this ban.  Our economy in Maine just keeps getting worse. Who needs Osama to hurt us, when our own state is sticking it to us.

[SheLion]

Non smokers can STAY away from places where there is smoke if they want to --PLEASE!! Why are we allowing this to happen? whether people smoke or not, they should object to this infringement on rights...

We have been trying very hard to unravel the thought process that the general public has been pushed into by the anti-smoker groups.  When the war on the smoker didn't work, they started using "second hand smoke" against us.  Telling the general non-smoking public that our smoke was killing them.

Anyone with their own though process knows this is not true.  I never read a death certificate that stated the cause of death was "second hand smoke." Have you?  It's asinine to even think that this is true.

When a proposed smoking ban is announced, business owner's think it couldn't happen to them, and they remain silent.  But when they realize the impact forced upon them by the ban, then they start to rethink this issue.  By then, it's usually too late.

Why open up your dream business in the state of Maine if the Maine Governor and Lawmakers can just go in and dictate how you are to run it?  They over take the business, you AND your money.  Pity.

 

[WVNan]

Maybe the next move would be to purchase all your cigarettes out of state and deny Maine of the tax revenue. Don't the Indians sell cigarettes on-line? The way I have things figured the insanity in America will begin to abate only when the Boomer generation passes on. Of course by then it may be too late to save her. Can you imagine some of the things they will dream up as they grow old? You see it's always been about them. They believed that they could shape the world the way they wanted it to be and they were right. Problem is, their idealistic ideas have no basis in reality and never work.

[SheLion]

Maybe the next move would be to purchase all your cigarettes out of state and deny Maine of the tax revenue

A lot of freepers are already doing this.  And a lot of Freepers are also rolling their own.

Maine is starting to give the Indians a hard time over selling cigarettes as well.  Not sure how this will turn out for our Reservations.

[swarthyguy]

STOP MAKING SENSE!

I don't see why we don't send smokers to reedukashun camps or Gitmo.

Oh, wait, Tax receipts would fall off.

I mean, you have a 3dollar state tax on each pak in Suckachusetts. In addition to the feds.

Buy cigs but don't smoke them in public.

Wait til Bloomputz makes it illegal to smoke in your domicile. Can't risk the fire, y'know. It'd be bad for the children.

Discuss - Compare the ostracisation of smokers with the victimhood status being given to those with extra pounds; Overeating is not a personal responsibility, but a result of crass commercialism that bombards people with food ads.

My solution: Ban food ads on TV!

At this rate, let's ban alcohol and short skirts and tell Osama he's won.

[SheLion]

Wait til Bloomputz makes it illegal to smoke in your domicile. Can't risk the fire, y'know. It'd be bad for the children.

That what is the excuse for THIS?

My solution: Ban food ads on TV!

At this rate, let's ban alcohol and short skirts and tell Osama he's won.

Well, the state of Maine has already "banned" alcohol ads on TV.  Except the E Channel. LOL!  They can't GET to the E channel to stop their alcohol ads.  But look at Busch and NASCAR.  Maine can't cut out THOSE ads for beer, either.  But they cut down on a lot of alcohol ads on regular networks.  But be nice to become the Head Clergy of a state when you become Govenor, eh?

And who fears Osama?  When our own state house is killing us! AND our economy!!!

[Eowyn-of-Rohan]

"I have things figured the insanity in America will begin to abate only when the Boomer generation passes on. Of course by then it may be too late to save her. Can you imagine some of the things they will dream up as they grow old? You see it's always been about them. They believed that they could shape the world the way they wanted it to be and they were right. Problem is, their idealistic ideas have no basis in reality and never work."

You really think you have it all figured out, but things are not so cut and dried, and you apparently have based your perceptions on a narrow and biased body of research.

[JohnnyZ]

Maine is well on its way to becoming a communist paradise. Publicly financed campaigns. Smoking bans. An environmentalist mafia. Thank you McKernan-Snowe Republicanism for paving the way . . .

[Mark]

That letter is amazing!

The part about having the freedom to smoke where non-smokers won't be harmed leaves the loop holes of a next door neighbor complaining or in an apartment building, your upstair neighbor-----Part two legislation to be continued.

"the vast majority of citizens agree"-- that brings MORE tyrany in the future.

AND most of all, Mary signs with "Partnership for a TOBACCO-FREE Maine". That goal would then strip you of the freedom she mentioned in the first part of the letter.

[metesky]

"I do believe it does spell doom for this effort," said Becky Birrell Smith, program coordinator for the Maine Coalition on Smoking or Health. "In every other state and municipality that's enacted this type of legislation, the popularity of the ban increases month by month."

Even though the ban just went into effect two days ago, Becky has been polling the population for months and knows this. And the reporter uncritically accepts this BS.

Notice that some cowardly Gnazi has added keywords, but has made no comment on the article.

[Leisler]

Have you noticed that government money goes for the people pushing increased government, like this smoking ban stuff, welfare advocates, so called environmental education, bum housing, etc? But it never goes to those politically opposed? How can this be fair? Of course it is not, but it is interesting, at least, that any action which increases government power and decreases landowners, small businesses, and abuses those holding so-called archaic opinions, gets funding.

Anyways, to a certain amount, I blame the smokers and the bar and restaurant owners. They saw this coming and never organized. No one was walking the state house, handing out cash and jobs to the legislators sub-sub mental twit relatives. Money talks, rights walk.

[SheLion]

That letter is amazing!

The part about having the freedom to smoke where non-smokers won't be harmed leaves the loop holes of a next door neighbor complaining or in an apartment building, your upstair neighbor-----Part two legislation to be continued.

I've been fighting Partners for a few years now.  Especially when I learned that their paychecks come from the taxes paid for by smokers who buy Maine cigarettes.  And especially when I found out that Partnership for a Tobacco Free Maine used THOUSANDS of dollars in the summer of 2002 to sponsor 5 race teams AND the race tracks around Maine.  That REALLY fired me up!

"the vast majority of citizens agree"-- that brings MORE tyrany in the future.

Sure, the VAST MAJORITY agree!  Or do they!  Or is this more spin to make Partners look good in what they are doing to Maine's economy?  And of course, if most of the general public doesn't smoke, you KNOW they will kiss the azz of Donna Mills and Mary Beth.  The two women who run this horrific outfit!

One representative in the State House told me that when Mary Beth has to pass by the smokers to get into the state house, she walks real fast with her prissy nose up in the air.  Now, what kind of woman does THAT tell you she is?  I can only imagine what she looks like. heh!

AND most of all, Mary signs with "Partnership for a TOBACCO-FREE Maine". That goal would then strip you of the freedom she mentioned in the first part of the letter.

Oh sure. The title LOOKS good but consider this:  if Maine DID go tobacco free, just where would they get their hefty pay checks?  They would have to tear down their office and find another job.  They talk out of both sides of their mouths.  That's one reason I wish every smoker in Maine would buy from the Internet or roll their owns, and REALLY put them out of business. Not only that..................then the Govenor would have to find ANOTHER way to balance the damn budget instead of on the backs of the smokers in this state.

Personally, I'd LOVE to see Maine Government pull cigarettes and tobacco products off of the shelves across the state.  Can you see the rioting?  It would be a beautiful site.

That letter is amazing!

The part about having the freedom to smoke where non-smokers won't be harmed leaves the loop holes of a next door neighbor complaining or in an apartment building, your upstair neighbor-----Part two legislation to be continued.

I've been fighting Partners for a few years now.  Especially when I learned that their paychecks come from the taxes paid for by smokers who buy Maine cigarettes.  And especially when I found out that Partnership for a Tobacco Free Maine used THOUSANDS of dollars in the summer of 2002 to sponsor 5 race teams AND the race tracks around Maine.  That REALLY fired me up!

"the vast majority of citizens agree"-- that brings MORE tyrany in the future.

Sure, the VAST MAJORITY agree!  Or do they!  Or is this more spin to make Partners look good in what they are doing to Maine's economy?  And of course, if most of the general public doesn't smoke, you KNOW they will kiss the azz of Donna Mills and Mary Beth.  The two women who run this horrific outfit!

One representative in the State House told me that when Mary Beth has to pass by the smokers to get into the state house, she walks real fast with her prissy nose up in the air.  Now, what kind of woman does THAT tell you she is?  I can only imagine what she looks like. heh!

AND most of all, Mary signs with "Partnership for a TOBACCO-FREE Maine". That goal would then strip you of the freedom she mentioned in the first part of the letter.

Oh sure. The title LOOKS good but consider this:  if Maine DID go tobacco free, just where would they get their hefty pay checks?  They would have to tear down their office and find another job.  They talk out of both sides of their mouths.  That's one reason I wish every smoker in Maine would buy from the Internet or roll their owns, and REALLY put them out of business. Not only that..................then the Govenor would have to find ANOTHER way to balance the damn budget instead of on the backs of the smokers in this state.

Personally, I'd LOVE to see Maine Government pull cigarettes and tobacco products off of the shelves across the state.  Can you see the rioting?  It would be a beautiful site.

[SheLion]

Even though the ban just went into effect two days ago, Becky has been polling the population for months and knows this. And the reporter uncritically accepts this BS.

Well, it will take several months for the full tally to come in from the bars/taverns and sports inns to realize the loss of business.

Dear Becky just has a way with words.  And yes........the Editors and journalists LOVE putting in something like these articles that go against 25-30 percent of the people in Maine who smoke.  Thinking that there isn't a damn thing we can do about it.  I gave up writing to the BDN because he stopped publishing my letters.  I guess it's true.........The Truth Hurts and the BDN just doesn't want truth.

Notice that some cowardly Gnazi has added keywords, but has made no comment on the article.

You lost me.  Keywords????  Let me know where you found those. 

[SheLion]

Have you noticed that government money goes for the people pushing increased government, like this smoking ban stuff, welfare advocates, so called environmental education, bum housing, etc? But it never goes to those politically opposed? How can this be fair? Of course it is not, but it is interesting, at least, that any action which increases government power and decreases landowners, small businesses, and abuses those holding so-called archaic opinions, gets funding.

Leisler.............it's not government money!  They are using the Tobacco Settlement money from the Maine smokers who pay taxes on Maine cigarettes.  NOT the Maine Government and NOT Big Tobacco!  But Maine SMOKERS.  That is where they get the money.  Instead of using it for sick kids and for cessation  programs for people who really want to quit, and for senior health and prescription care, they are using this money to take away revenue from small business owners and for tacky TV ads, and for control, bans and more restrictions on smokers.  Plus, not to mention sponsoring RACE TEAMS across the state of Maine. That's OUR money they are using.  WE are paying for all of this abuse!

Anyways, to a certain amount, I blame the smokers and the bar and restaurant owners. They saw this coming and never organized. No one was walking the state house, handing out cash and jobs to the legislators sub-sub mental twit relatives. Money talks, rights walk.

ahhhhhhhh but they never thought it would happen to them.  ~sigh..............

[Leisler]

The Nazis( both the originals and the smoke Nazis ) were smart. First they began a campaign through demonetization to weaken and isolate their intended victim. They they both established seeming small measures to establish and pattern control. Then after a decade of warming the frog water actions, they acted.

Anyways, I feel we are way past the point, in anything, that the individual, or a association of individuals, are the defining idea. The government is everything now, and we exist at its whim.