Safire: Job and Dean

The New York Times ^ | 01/05/04 | William Safire

[KeyWest]

-Ain't fair. That's the point.-

Michael Strazinski, the Babylon 5 creator and writer, who is an atheist, had a character respond to your comment-

"If the universe was fair we would all be dead."

[docmcb]

Yes, I agree on all counts. Job's friends were usually "right" in a general sense -- they just didn't happen to be right in Job's case, partly because they had God in a box also. And as Job points out to them, they are terrified to face the possibility that being Good is no protection from calamity. Job MUST be guilty, otherwise their conception of God offers them no comfort.

Lurker has God trying to have it both ways. When God finally speaks to Job, He says, essentially, Do I have to be Guilty because you are Innocent? Job was perilously close to sin there. Job knew only one thing, that he was innocent, and he clung to that, which was good, but God had to shake him up enough to make him realize that his little piece of Truth was just that, a little piece.

I think that Job is clearly better off at the end than at the beginning, which is one of the main points. God is incomprehensible to limited little us, which is another of the main points, but He DOES care about us.

[docmcb]

CS Lewis in THE GREAT DIVORCE has a character arriving at Heaven whining that he just wants what he deserves, and the Angel or whoever that meets him says, "Oh, my dear sir, we can do much better than THAT!"

[edwin hubble]

"Priceless, what a student of the Bible. One of the reasons it wasn't mentioned by the media is maybe the media couldn't recognize it."

Yes, most reporters would have no idea that the Book of Job is in the Old Testament.

Hollywood has the same ignorance. Here's an anecdote from the biography of the studio mogul Harry Cohn of Columbia Pictures in the 1930's:
--
In the midst of an argument to some other point, Harry Cohn, the much hated tycoon responsible for the success and ultimate respectability of Columbia Pictures, once bet that his own hated brother Jack did not know and could not recite the Lord's Prayer.

Equally full of bluster, Jack Cohn accepted the wager, and with a certain trepidation, began, "Now I lay me down to sleep…." Harry Cohn glowered and shoved his money across the table. "That's enough," he said. "I didn't think you knew it."

[mvpel]

The creation has no right to question the creator.

The term "Israel" means "to struggle/strive with G-d." Abraham, on the destruction of Sodom, demanded "Shall not the Judge of the world deal justly?"

We have a right to question, we just shouldn't expect to always like or understand the answer.

[cajungirl]

wonderful story!

[cajungirl]

Dean's hubris is what we see. He is going to "get down" and appeal to the uneducated, conservative bible thumpers whom he has great disdain for considering them {or us} as little better than feudal serfs who never learned anything other than magical thinking. So he "gets down" and finds himself in the unique, for him, position of looking up and seeing that what he has such disdain for has more than he thought both in wisdom and knowledge. The press doesn't know or see what they don't know or see. So it passes. Except for those of us who are watching this little emperor and his hubris.

[Blessed]

>We have a right to question, we just shouldn't expect to always like or understand the answer.<

I agree. God allows us to struggle with him and ask why or for understanding.I was attempting to convey the idea we have no right to substitute our judgement for his.

[MEGoody]

LOL It's pretty obvious Dean has no knowledge of the bible and tried to wing it.

Thanks for posting this. I really got a good laugh out it.

[MEGoody]

"But I haven't heard the big new coverage teams pounce on it, (like they did the other gaafes) have you?"

No, but then most of them don't even know the book of Job is in the bible.

[Drawsing]

Whenever I read something in the Bible that makes me uncomfortable, I get excited... Because God is about to jump out of the box once again. Here is a partial list of Bible incidents that once made me angry but have since expanded my vision:

The prodigal son being rewarded.(I sympathized with the older brother.)

Jesus remaining silent before his accusers.(C'mon..say something!)

Elijah slaughtering the prophets of Baal.(Couldn't you just banish them, Elijah?)

And of course, Job.(C'mon God, tell the poor guy exactly what's going on!)

[Forgiven_Sinner]

I understand that Job occurs near the end or at the end of the Hebrew Bible. Am I wrong about this? I thought it was in response to the observable fact that the just do not always prosper in this world. Not a bad segway into Christianity.

Yes, the OT (Hebrew) Bible is divided into the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings. Job is in the Writings, which end with 1 & 2 Chronicles.

It is a good segue to the NT. The central issue is unjust suffering, which Jesus guarantees for all Christians. It also addresses self-righteousness, which is one of Job's problems, as well as his friends. Job justifies himself rather than God, but at least he looks to God to judge him as just. God, in response, says, "Who are you to question what I do?" The point is, we cannot judge God's actions.

Job also deals with the battle between man and Satan. There is no battle between God and Satan--that was over before man was created. But Satan tries to obliterate Job's faith, and fails. I always marvel that people charge God with the ill that befalls Job, when Satan does it all. God is responsible for allowing Satan to attack Job, but not for the evil he does. As others have pointed out, Job ends up in a better spiritual condition that before, and God changes his physical condition to be twice as blessed as before as well. This all ties to Christianity and how Christians who suffer for Christ's sake receive many times more blessings than what they lose.

Job was a grandchild of Jacob, I believe, and the book was written while Israel was in Egypt, but before they became a slave race. I feel it is a historical account, but others feel it is merely a story.

[anglian]

It's worse than just a gaffe. Dean: “If you know much about the Bible — which I do”. He clearly implies a position of considerable Biblical knowledge and then he tries to convince others that which is NOT TRUE.