Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

On campus, grim statistics for African-American men
St. Petersburg Times ^ | January 5, 2004 | Bill Maxwell

Posted on 01/05/2004 1:53:31 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife

African-Americans should be afraid - very afraid.

We have many reasons to be afraid, but two that should cause the most alarm are the low number of black men in college and the low number of black men who are graduating from college.

Nationally, a mere quarter of the 1.9-million black men between 18 and 24 attended college in 2000, the last year the American Council on Education reported such statistics. By contrast, 35 percent of black women in the same age group and 36 percent of all 18- to 24-year-olds were attending college.

A grimmer statistic, according to the American Council on Education, is that the graduation rate of black men is the lowest of any population. Only 35 percent of the black men who enrolled in NCAA Division I schools in 1996 graduated within six years. White men, on the other hand, graduated at a rate of 59 percent; Hispanic men, 46 percent; American Indian men, 41 percent; and black women, 45 percent.

Where are the black men, why are so few on our college campuses and why are so few graduating?

"In 1999 there were 757,000 black men in federal, state and local prisons," according to the Autumn 2003 issue of the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education. "In 1999 . . . there were 604,200 African-American men enrolled in higher education in the United States. Therefore, there were 25 percent more black men in prison in the United States than were enrolled in institutions of higher education. Today, black men make up 41 percent of the inmates in federal state, and local prison, but black men are only 4 percent of all students in American institutions of higher education."

Many black and white educators at major colleges and universities, including Amherst, historically black Howard, Swarthmore and Wesleyan, are trying to help end this crisis. Several years ago, the University of Georgia established the African-American Male Initiative, a research program with the purpose of removing the hurdles to college enrollment and graduation for black men.

The obstacles to black males earning college degrees are many, some seemingly intractable. They include inferior public education before college, the absence of black men as role models, low expectations from teachers and other adults, low self-esteem, black men's own low aspirations and their tendency to drop out of high school in disproportionate numbers.

Yes, these are serious obstacles to college enrollment and graduation for African-American men, but, taken together, they represent the least important part of the problem. A role model, for example, means nothing or next to nothing to a child who is ill-prepared to emotionally and intellectually apprehend the significance of the role model's accomplishments.

The seeds for success, especially academic success, are most effectively planted at home. The presence of books in the home and parents who read and discuss ideas and current affairs almost always influence children to read and to care about things of the mind. Too many African-American homes are headed by parents, single or otherwise, who lack interest in the long-term efficacy of education, who do not insist that their children learn.

The efforts of the University of Georgia and others are to be applauded. But a parenting initiative has to be established, an initiative that forces parents and children to become introspective and diligent. At the core of the black male crisis is our failure to assume total responsibility for the destiny of our children - our future. Nearly 100 years ago, educator and civil rights attorney Charles Hamilton Houston said of black people and education: "Without education, there is no hope for our people and without hope, our future is lost."

By any means necessary, black adults must teach black children to take hold of their lives. While we should continue to acknowledge the debilitating effects of racism, we cannot afford to live as victims. We must forge a world of self-determination parallel to that of society's racism, an evil that is not disappearing any time soon.

External programs, such as Georgia's African-American Male Initiative, are good things, but they cannot replace black people's own will to succeed academically. Until we look inside ourselves and change our perspective on education, the grim statistics will continue to pile up, and our men will fall further behind and the dreaded cliche - black males are "an endangered species" - will become a reality.

We should be afraid - very afraid.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: academia; blackstudents; education; highereducation; males; racism
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-116 next last
Bill Maxwell is on the right track and as soon as he drops the racism crutch, he'll begin to see the fruits of his labor. He seemed to get it but has reverted to throwing the race-card into the equation. It is an election year, however, this pandering to the Left is self-defeating

July 2001 - Bill Maxwell: We have no leaders to save our black men ***In every part of the nation -- Miami, Cincinnati, Chicago, Newark, Los Angeles, New York, New Orleans, Houston, Atlanta -- many black males seem determined to self-destruct. We will not gain ground by blaming whites for this sorry state of affairs. This is a crisis of our own making, and only we can fix it. Our collective lethargy -- our lack of rage -- is the greatest sin. Fixing this problem should be at the top of every black person's agenda.***

Clarence Page: What black parents must do now ... ***With those findings and many others in mind, we should never make too much of the impact that teen culture may have on achievement. But we certainly shouldn't make too little of it, either.

Your attitude, in large measure, determines your altitude, as I once heard Jesse Jackson say. Your first step in achieving is to believe that you can achieve.

There is no shame in the mere fact that some groups show different levels of interest and performance in education and other skills. It is only a shame if the low performers don't do something to improve.

Asian-Americans outperform whites academically, for example, yet no one blames racism for white "underachievement." Similarly, the rest of us should not reject useful insights about our children, either, even when it is a little painful to hear.

By facing obvious realities openly and honestly, we can begin to encourage a self-image among black youths that will help them to value their brains as much as their basketballs or the "bling-bling" and "ching-ching" of rap stars on MTV and BET.***

October 2003 - Walter Williams: No excuses part II*** Here's my question: Do parents, particularly black parents, know or even care about what's being done to their children in the name of education? Do they know that the A or B on their children's report card is worthless? Don't say the solution lies in more money unless you're prepared to show me great results with expenditures of $15,000 per student in Massachusetts and $13,000 in Washington, D.C., and skyrocketing education budgets elsewhere.***

More LINKED columns

1 posted on 01/05/2004 1:53:32 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: All
Rank Location Receipts Donors/Avg Freepers/Avg Monthlies
8 Florida 395.00
11
35.91
808
0.49
478.00
33

Thanks for donating to Free Republic!

Move your locale up the leaderboard!

2 posted on 01/05/2004 1:54:25 AM PST by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mhking
*ping*
3 posted on 01/05/2004 2:37:16 AM PST by liberallyconservative ("I'm a politician ergo I'm a cheat & a liar. If I'm not kissin babies Im stealin their lollipops.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
Talk about role models, I just watched the Sugar Bowl. That Snoop Doggy Dog person was featured during many commercial breaks.

I couldn't understand a word he said.

4 posted on 01/05/2004 2:52:27 AM PST by HIDEK6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HIDEK6
Talk about role models, I just watched the Sugar Bowl. That Snoop Doggy Dog person was featured during many commercial breaks.

I couldn't understand a word he said.

You're probably better off not knowing what he said.

5 posted on 01/05/2004 3:23:32 AM PST by Siamese Princess
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Siamese Princess
Whenever I listen to rap music, all I can think of is that song, "I'm a Ding Dong Daddy from Dumas."
6 posted on 01/05/2004 3:26:28 AM PST by HIDEK6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: HIDEK6
Whenever I listen to rap music, all I can think of is that song, "I'm a Ding Dong Daddy from Dumas."

I'm sure that many people will be enjoying that tune even a century from now.

7 posted on 01/05/2004 3:48:54 AM PST by Siamese Princess
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Siamese Princess
"...Well, sir, she sighed and she cried,

said Burnside's died,

committed suicide,

So I turned around,

Walked out the door,

an' I'm never gonna do it again. Aahhh'm a

Ding Dong Daddy from Dumas, and you

oughta see me do my stuff.

etc.

8 posted on 01/05/2004 3:57:44 AM PST by HIDEK6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
Maxwell’s logic is flawed as he equates “college enrollment” with “education.”
9 posted on 01/05/2004 4:35:39 AM PST by bimbo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Siamese Princess
Ding Dong Daddy From Dumas was a tune with the melody lifted from Robert Johnson's Hot Tamales

With all of the affirmative action and minority scholarships, the Negro College Fund, and the intense recruitment of blacks for diversity, there is no reason for the grim statistics quoted other than the obvious. The Bell Curve states the facts and one cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

10 posted on 01/05/2004 4:47:43 AM PST by vetvetdoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
a parenting initiative has to be established, an initiative that forces parents and children to become introspective and diligent.

What sort of "initiative" is it that "forces" parents to do this or that with their children? Who is in charge of such an initiative, and what sort of things do they get to "force" parents to do?

Curiousity and a thirst for knowledge must come from inside; these are qualities that cannot be "forced" on anyone.

I dunno. Sounds to me like just another gubment program where the smart people wearing suits want to play at animal husbandry with the po' folks. Haven't we had enough of those already? Isn't that how we got here in the first place?


11 posted on 01/05/2004 5:05:14 AM PST by Nick Danger ( With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rdb3; Khepera; elwoodp; MAKnight; condolinda; mafree; Trueblackman; FRlurker; Teacher317; ...
we cannot afford to live as victims

If Maxwell would get off of racism as a crutch, I think we could have a meeting of the minds.

Black conservative ping

If you want on (or off) of my black conservative ping list, please let me know via FREEPmail. (And no, you don't have to be black to be on the list!)

Extra warning: this is a high-volume ping list.

12 posted on 01/05/2004 5:28:42 AM PST by mhking (My brother and I had never seen The Belt........but we had heard about it....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
Several years ago, the University of Georgia established the African-American Male Initiative, a research program with the purpose of removing the hurdles to college enrollment and graduation for black men.

Such as grades or studying or working?

13 posted on 01/05/2004 5:32:56 AM PST by Future Snake Eater ("Oh boy, I can't wait to eat that monkey!"--Abe Simpson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Support Free Republic
I would just be happy if the African-American man would support his out-of-wedlock children so I don't have to!

What is the statistic now for fatherless children in the African-American home?

Talk about the proverbial Elephant in the Living Room!

Fix the African-American family first and then complain about college graduation statistics. ..the truth hurts sometimes!

14 posted on 01/05/2004 5:36:52 AM PST by TexasCajun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
The obstacles to black males earning college degrees are many, some seemingly intractable. They include:

inferior public education before college -- Destroy the unions, end government invovlement in education
the absence of black men as role models -- Blacks need to work on that
low expectations from teachers and other adults
-- "other adults"? A flaw in black culture, they need to fix it
low self-esteem -- Got it backwards. Achieve success and self-esteem will follow
black men's own low aspirations -- Blacks need to work on that
and their tendency to drop out of high school in disproportionate numbers. -- Blacks need to work on that

I don't see Racism as a contributing factor here at all.

15 posted on 01/05/2004 5:38:14 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (France delenda est)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
White men, on the other hand, graduated at a rate of 59 percent

Buried in the article is this statistic which I find very telling. Even among the "privileged" there is a 41% failure rate. There is something very wrong with the whole system of college admissions if this is true.

16 posted on 01/05/2004 5:42:36 AM PST by jalisco555 ("The right to bear weapons is the right to be free" - A. E. Van Vogt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
"our lack of rage -- is the greatest sin"

"black men make up 41 percent of the inmates in federal state, and local prison"

Trust me, a lack of rage is not the problem, and more rage is not going to fix it.

17 posted on 01/05/2004 5:45:26 AM PST by JasonC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
. . . black men's own low aspirations . . .

Exactly what are young men supposed to aspire to when the only males in their lives are occasional studs who sleep over with mama? Since Daniel Patrick Moynihan issued his warning that the black family was in danger of collapse, the very worst has happened. Today 70% of black kids are born into single-parent female-headed "families," and many of the others end up in broken homes as well. Without male guidance, the girls turn out like their mothers and the boys end up on the streets until the police stick them in jail. It's no surprise at all. The few who make it out of this madness are the surprises.

18 posted on 01/05/2004 5:45:47 AM PST by madprof98
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TexasCajun
From Family First:

The illegitimacy rate among African-Americans in 1965 was 26%. Today, the rate is 68% and climbing. In inner cites, the figure is typically in excess of 80%. The illegitimacy rate among white Americans has risen tenfold, from 2.29% in 1960 to 22% today.

It was the welfare state that killed the black family.

19 posted on 01/05/2004 5:46:21 AM PST by Pharmboy (History's greatest agent for freedom: The US Armed Forces)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: mhking; Cincinatus' Wife
the absence of black men as role models

There are plenty of black men (and women) out there to serve as role models. As I see it, the problem lies with the media and politicians who would rather pander to the Sharptons and Jacksons than extol the virtues of the men and women who have climbed the ladder through hard work and perseverance.

I remember a few years back when the CEO of one of our major food companies died (can't remember which company). The man was black and I was surprised I had never heard of him.

I also remember one black guy I saw interviewed on TV and the gist of what he was saying was along Jeffersonian lines: "What do I care if some fool doesn't like me strictly because of my skin color? I'm not going to let fools like that stop my quest for excellence."

I do agree with the author on the importance of reading in the house. Books, newspapers and magazines are more important than TV. Too many parents of all colors and persuasions use TV as a babysitting device.

Google: Black Corporate Executives

20 posted on 01/05/2004 6:21:47 AM PST by metesky (My investment program is still holding steady @ $.05 a can.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
Powerful black executives that most Americans have never heard of.
21 posted on 01/05/2004 6:27:49 AM PST by metesky (My investment program is still holding steady @ $.05 a can.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: vetvetdoug
You hit the nail on the head. I have come to the same conclusions regarding U. of Michigan's own numbers available on their website. The lowest grad rate was consistent with the culture/race of persons that received the most points based on race. When you lower the requirements you risk that the individuals are not prepared for the course work. The highest grad rate was from another minority group, except that they don't count (Asian).

The result is that we are awarding entrance to esteemed educational opportunities to persons that have no hope to complete that education. Instead, we could maintain standards and increase the number of people that are educated!

Talk about harm to self esteem, let's humilate a large portion of students by not providing them with the basics necessary to succeed, then admitting them with full knowledge they will fail!

Solution: Grades must be awarded based on race!
22 posted on 01/05/2004 6:42:08 AM PST by CSM (Councilmember Carol Schwartz (R.-at large), my new hero! The Anti anti Smoke Gnatzie!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
One factor that is rarely raised in such studies or articles is discipline, parental and self. Go to any mall or other public gathering place where there are parents and children of different ethnic backgrounds and you will observe a general pattern of behavior in which the Asian children are the best behaved with the trend following the academic statistics cited in the article. A similar correlation involving the age of the mothers would likely emerge as teenage mothers merely by the youth of motherhood suggests the lack of respect for self discipline.
23 posted on 01/05/2004 6:46:09 AM PST by monocle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy
A few corrections are in order from a liberal perspective.

The obstacles to black males earning college degrees are many, some seemingly intractable. They include:

inferior public education before college -- Destroy the unions, end government invovlement in education Throw more tax dollars at education and set up special programs for minorities.

the absence of black men as role models -- Blacks need to work on that Reason #1 why either Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton or Quesi Mfume MUST be elected POTUSA immediately.

low expectations from teachers and other adults -- "other adults"? A flaw in black culture, they need to fix it Sensitivity training for everyone to raise their expectations.

low self-esteem -- Got it backwards. Achieve success and self-esteem will follow black men's own low aspirations -- Blacks need to work on that Government must establish an aspiration quotient which makes sure that no person's aspiration are higher than another person's.

and their tendency to drop out of high school in disproportionate numbers. -- Blacks need to work on that Drop out rates must be made level across all sections of society.

I Liberals don't see Racism as a contributing factor here at all.

24 posted on 01/05/2004 6:47:42 AM PST by N. Theknow (Be a glowworm, a glowworm's never glum, cuz how can you be grumpy when the sun shines out your bum.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: metesky
Thank you for the LINKS!
25 posted on 01/05/2004 6:51:44 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: jalisco555
Buried in the article is this statistic which I find very telling. Even among the "privileged" there is a 41% failure rate. There is something very wrong with the whole system of college admissions if this is true.

The house won't stand if the foundation isn't sound.

26 posted on 01/05/2004 6:54:16 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: madprof98
Yes, children imitate what they see.
27 posted on 01/05/2004 6:55:26 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Nick Danger
What sort of "initiative" is it that "forces" parents to do this or that with their children? Who is in charge of such an initiative, and what sort of things do they get to "force" parents to do?

This is the wall Maxwell can't get past. He needs to say goodbye to big government programs and see them for what they are. They are the reason for the collapse of the black family.

28 posted on 01/05/2004 6:57:10 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: bimbo
Bump!
29 posted on 01/05/2004 6:57:35 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
It is called "diversity." DIversity brings in people of different races who have no business in college, in order to enhance the racial mix and feel good about themselves.
30 posted on 01/05/2004 7:28:02 AM PST by nonliberal (Graduate: Curtis E. LeMay School of International Relations)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
For my Minority Group Relations Class reading. Thanks!
31 posted on 01/05/2004 9:51:54 AM PST by Van Jenerette (Our Republic...If we can keep it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
As a survivor of being raised black, I have to disagree with you about big government's role in the disintegration of the black family. There are many families that survive or break apart simply based on their ability to care for one another regardless of where they are. Often, economic necessity requires that children go far away from home to attain the opportunity suitable to their talents. Distance and getting caught up in the rat race... That creates a distance between family members regardless of race. Too many families do not get together until someone dies. That is sad but it is true. Many also come from families where growing up in difficult circumstances is something many prefer to leave behind and therefore, family gatherings are avoided... This causes families to not be close. There is also a certain level of animosity between various elements of a family dependent upon who is successful financially and in other ways and there seems to be a separation between those who are doing well and those who are not.

Also, the church that our parents attended may not be the church that we attend. That has nothing to do with big government. It has to do with losing the ties that bind us together. Think of families that have gone to the same church in the same town or city for generations. Not an easy thing to find.

You can not lay the blame at the feet of big government. People's mistakes, involvement in the legal system, pursuit of economic opportunity, the perceived frustration that many men and women feel concerning how far they can go with their education...These things drive people apart more than anything else. And I have never heard of anyone filing for divorce and stating the cause as "big government" or "the white man was conspiring against us"... Irreconcilable differences occur between people and they go their separate ways leaving gaps in their family and their community...

I would concede more role models are needed but you have to ask yourself gets more respect? ...Michael Johnson, Michael Jordan, Michael Powell, Vince Brooks, Tiger Woods, Donovan McNabb, Alan Keyes, Harold Ford, Jr, Snoop Dogg, Charles Drew...

Being responsible for yourself and to yourself means that government is your last option and not your first.

And the person you look to first to improve your life is yourself...

Big government has done some good and bad things... But families that grow apart and do not help one another are going to fail regardless of the size of government...
32 posted on 01/05/2004 9:52:08 AM PST by dwd1 (M. h. D. (Master of Hate and Discontent))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: dwd1
And the person you look to first to improve your life is yourself...

This is the most important point in your reply. and it is true.

The first two paragraphs of your post however, apply equally well to white families as to black families. Yet only the black family has collapsed to such a degree.

Why? Big government welfare type programs. (If you subsidize illegitimate children you get more illegitimate children)

33 posted on 01/05/2004 10:50:53 AM PST by John O (God Save America (Please))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
The problem isn't the colleges, it's the primary and high schools. If Maxwell had a backbone, he'd go after them.
34 posted on 01/05/2004 11:16:38 AM PST by Tribune7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
Time to keep more whites out of college. Must be **fair**. Grant degrees for stopping by the Office Of Degree Granting some time during the four years after admission to the school. Whites must get 3.9 or better GPA and attend all classes with perfect attendance for degree. Move along... nothing unusual here... Just being fair...
35 posted on 01/05/2004 11:20:35 AM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jalisco555
MANY students should never been enrolled in college, black, white or whatever.
36 posted on 01/05/2004 11:20:40 AM PST by cynicom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: John O
There is a need to get fathers involved with their families more... Too many feel that if they can not do well by their children, they do nothing. Another thing that is hard for some fathers is to expect the woman and the children to take care of themselves or to find another man to take care of the woman and her children. In other words, there is a divorcing of the woman and the children. I see this in all ethnic groups.

And I know enough about the law to know that if the state gets involved with having to support a family, they will pursue the father. You could say that the child support collection system needs some work. I have seen men that get tired of dealing with the situation because they believe the law is messed up and prevents them from getting on with their lives... (a bit selfish but there are women that lay around waiting for child support and alimony and there are men that spend a lot of time avoiding it)... I don't know if this is a tax law problem or a moral problem... Alimony is tax deductible for a man who tries to do right but he has to pay taxes on the money he gives to a spouse for child support. Many women claim head of household and sometimes the man feels shafting by the family law system. In the end, the children suffer when parents can not work out an agreement and work together for the best interests of the children.

And I see children in West Virginia, Texas, Southern California, and many other places where the children are failed by family and "the system"...

I see families of all colors with family problems... Most of the time, it has to do with people moving on and starting a new family and ignoring the responsibility that comes with the children of the first... You see that problem on all parts of town...

What I am trying to say is that what has lead to a loss of family values has to do with the church, the community, the economy, education, globalization, economic opportunities, and many other issues....

Blaming it all on "Big Government" is an oversimplification the same way that "Germans are blamed for the holocaust", Clinton or Bush are responsible for the economy, a vast right wing conspiracy is responsible for Clinton's Impeachment, the vast left wing media are responsible for the image problems of conservatives.... My objection is to the oversimplification...
37 posted on 01/05/2004 11:21:58 AM PST by dwd1 (M. h. D. (Master of Hate and Discontent))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: John O
Just curious.... What year did this collapse of black families occur?... Before or after the civil rights act?.. Before or after affirmative action? Before or after the Reagan Presidency?... Before or after the rise of gangs in LA...
Before or after the riots of 92...Before or after the riots of 65
Before or after Miranda? Before or after racial profiling? Before or after we were "niggras"...

It is simply a lot stories where the good stories are not told and the sad stories happen too many times...

And too many people become comfortable in the belief that there is nothing better for them in life... It is about the loss of hope...

People from all walks of life lose it for all different reasons... And it has nothing to do with the government or the color of one's skin... It has to do with what someone does when they are down... Do they get back up (or does someone give them a hand up) or do they lay down and wait for a hand out...
38 posted on 01/05/2004 11:29:54 AM PST by dwd1 (M. h. D. (Master of Hate and Discontent))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: dwd1
I see families of all colors with family problems... Most of the time, it has to do with people moving on and starting a new family and ignoring the responsibility that comes with the children of the first... You see that problem on all parts of town...

While this is true the problem is much more prevalent in the black communities. Much more prevalent. Look at the illegitimacy rates. Why is this so? It must be something more than just people moving on. Something that affects the black community to a higher extent than the non-black community

What I am trying to say is that what has lead to a loss of family values has to do with the church, the community, the economy, education, globalization, economic opportunities, and many other issues....

But all of these factors are common to both communities yet only the black community has sunk so low.

Blaming it all on "Big Government" is an oversimplification the same way that "Germans are blamed for the holocaust", Clinton or Bush are responsible for the economy, a vast right wing conspiracy is responsible for Clinton's Impeachment, the vast left wing media are responsible for the image problems of conservatives.... My objection is to the oversimplification...

While it may be an oversimplification it is also the main cause of the problem. Welfare cuckolds the black male. Why support your kids when Uncle Sam can do the job so much better. And why stay around at all when the kids do better financially if you leave?

Just curious.... What year did this collapse of black families occur?...

Can't say for sure. Seems that the LBJ welfare programs started the slide. Admittedly I'm too young to remember those years well but everything written that I can find shows the black family very healthy before then. The extended family was there to keep every one in line and fathers provided for their kids. The black community had earned pride. Now it only has fake pride.

It is simply a lot stories where the good stories are not told and the sad stories happen too many times...

This is true. The good stories exist. But even in the good stories you have to separate the black families that exist in the suburbs out of the statistics as they are not really living in the black community. For the most part they live a 'white' life and their children seem to follow the white statistical pattern. (that is, poverty, illegitimacy, lack of education and crime are not black characteristics as much as they are black cultural characteristics. Take the black out of the black culture and you get, for the most part, a contributing member of society)

Good stories out of the inner city black community are few and far between (A fraternity brother of mine was raised in Harlem. His mom moved him and his brother (who went on to be a VJ for VH1 a while back) to Milwaukee. Both went to college and are now firmly entrenched in the middle class. His mom was a truly special lady) but they do exist. Unfortunately the bad stories outnumber them 1000 to 1

And too many people become comfortable in the belief that there is nothing better for them in life... It is about the loss of hope...

People from all walks of life lose it for all different reasons... And it has nothing to do with the government or the color of one's skin... It has to do with what someone does when they are down... Do they get back up (or does someone give them a hand up) or do they lay down and wait for a hand out...

And along comes uncle sugar to give the hand out, removing all motivation to get back up and work. Welfare robs the future. You can succeed from a welfare home but it takes an immensely strong person to do so. And most people just aren't that strong when the whole community is pulling them back down. The entire black inner city community is built on the welfare system.

39 posted on 01/05/2004 11:48:36 AM PST by John O (God Save America (Please))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: nonliberal
General Curtis Lemay: Now there was a politically correct individual if there was ever one. General Lemay was sensitive to the needs of the poor (quote:Let's bomb them into the stone age), minorities (quote:Let's bomb them into the stone age) and the enemy of the US (quote:Lets' bomb the sobs into the stone age). Everyone I served with that had served under his command were unanimous, Lemay was soft spoken....
40 posted on 01/05/2004 11:55:25 AM PST by vetvetdoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: dwd1
All you describe can be associated with all races. The idea that BIG government can assist anyone is bogus. BIG government wants to redistribute wealth to garner votes and power. BIG government cares little about the consequences of living on the dole. It is unfortunate that more and more Americans are putting their hand out believing they are getting something for nothing. They are selling themselves down the river. My remarks about the breakup of the family was meant to describe the devistating effects of the disease called welfare.
41 posted on 01/05/2004 11:59:07 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: 69ConvertibleFirebird
Time to keep more whites out of college. Must be **fair**.

The sooner one learns that life isn't fair, the sooner they'll stop whining and get on with life.

42 posted on 01/05/2004 12:10:30 PM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: jalisco555
Even among the "privileged" there is a 41% failure rate.

Well, that may not be EXACTLY accurate. The statistic seems to be 41% are not graduating after 6 years. That may very well mean that most in this group are not graduating at all. However, as far back the early 90's, it was difficult to graduate from a Cal State University in 4 years going full time. Many people I know spent at least 5 years because campus was overcrowded and classes difficult to get.

So if we're talking about people who have changed majors partway through, or going part time, this stat may make things look worse than they are.

43 posted on 01/05/2004 12:11:40 PM PST by Dianna
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
I saw a black author on Hannity & Cooms say that things were better off for blacks BEFORE the Civil Rights act of 1963. At least more Black males were at home and more children were born to married families. Yes, they can vote now and have better chances at life--but the black community had to pay a price.
44 posted on 01/05/2004 12:23:19 PM PST by Hollywoodghost (Let he who would be free strike the first blow)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Hollywoodghost
The price was having snotty white liberals tell them that they need their help now and forever. If liberals had butt out after the civil rights movement then things would have been FINE.
45 posted on 01/05/2004 12:24:54 PM PST by cyborg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: dwd1
Don't you know it's more convenient to talk about black people? :-(
46 posted on 01/05/2004 12:26:23 PM PST by cyborg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: John O
Doing right by one's family is not necessarily an easy choice but it is the right one. I don't know where you got the 1000 to 1 ratio of good to bad fathers but you know what Mark Twain said about "lies, damned lies, and statistics" I would suggest that you go to LaDera Heights in Los Angeles... You may find that the numbers you are basing your opinion on may not reflect what is going on...

If you are asking what makes someone walk away from their family and not support them, I can only say from personal experience that it is a combination of selfishness, shame, and a lack of resources to support a new family and one from the previous marriage or relationship...

The funny thing about your position that government steps in and takes over is nothing I have ever seen. If a woman has to go to the government for assistance, there are laws that require attachment of wages, collection of funds from tax refunds, and I understand incarceration is also a possiblity.... I am proud to say I have never needed the government or anyone else to tell me to take care of my kids...

By the way... When you say "both communities".... I have heard there are more than two... Please let me know which two you are referring to...

I feel obliged to inquire if you have any personal experience with black communities or is your opinion based on anectdotal evidence primarily...

I guess I see the good and the bad in all situations...

And I can tell you one thing for sure... The social service system is not set up to encourage participation... I have been told that the level of humiliation when receiving public assistance is very high...

Now to the original subject of the education system, you might also want to look at the problem that many young men from different racial groups feel that the only way to go to college is through athletics and that studying is for nerds and geeks and those who are not cool... I can tell you that going to school under the circumstances I did was difficult when I see athletes (not all, just enough to notice) living better and not having to work as hard as I did to stay in school. In the end, however, I realized that education is the great equalizer and I was not going to give up...

However, as I said before, I have eyes and I know that I will never make the money Michael Jordan or anyone with those skills makes.... Part of the deal...


Black communities are still filled with proud people that do honest work ... We also have people who embarrass the hell out of the rest of us... I think you may find this occurs on all sides of the track... They have homeless in Tokyo, too...

And from what I have seen of the inner city in my twelve years in LA... People want better things... Getting out, going to school, marrying a nice girl with nice hips, getting a decent job with benefits, raising some decent kids... That is still the dream...

I have to disagree with you about the inner city... If everyone was living off welfare, there would be a lot more homeless because I understand that public assistance is not enough to keep a person housed...

When you talk of old times, the only thing I have heard too many times is that times were hard and there were few opportunities...




I see every type in the city...

What inner city have you had the most experience with?




47 posted on 01/05/2004 12:32:09 PM PST by dwd1 (M. h. D. (Master of Hate and Discontent))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: dwd1
excellent post
48 posted on 01/05/2004 12:40:24 PM PST by cyborg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: dwd1
Just curious.... What year did this collapse of black families occur?...

It's well documented. Moynihan issued his prophetic report on the collapse of the black family in 1965. At that time, the illegitimacy rate in the African-American community was 25%. It has since risen to about 70%.

I personally don't see it as a consequence of government policies alone. Myron Magnet's great book, The Dream and the Nightmare, places the blame on cultural changes that came with the '60s, particularly the Sexual Revolution.

49 posted on 01/05/2004 12:44:07 PM PST by madprof98
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
I think Reagan had it right when he said that a government that can give you everything you need can take everything you have....

I see welfare as a problem too and as someone who has spent time in a classroom learning as well as teaching, I think it is the silver bullet to most problems... I think welfare is something that should be the last instead of the first resort but I know that many would rather work any job rather than go on welfare and if there are no jobs, they would rather resort to crime rather than go on welfare...

This leads to a lot of bad choices.... There are people in this country that feel that they are faced with bad choices and worse choices... Kind of like "Do I pay for insurance or do I pay the rent?"


Back to welfare, I would not wish public assistance on anyone, and I guess I feel like I can compare welfare to the flu shots I had to take when I was in the military... I felt like the treatment or solution for the illness was worse than the actual illness...

Bad choice vs. worse choice...

Education... The answer... Opportunity... The answer.... Moral and fiscal responsibility... The answer....

And many will say.."Easier said than done!" That is what people who want things to be different can not easily overcome when confronting someone who is stuck in a rut or a cycle of poverty....IMHO
50 posted on 01/05/2004 12:44:50 PM PST by dwd1 (M. h. D. (Master of Hate and Discontent))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-116 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson