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Crazy Horse beer case dismissed
Rapid City Journal ^ | January 8, 2004 | Dennis Gale, Associated Press Writer

Posted on 01/08/2004 11:23:07 AM PST by Land_of_Lincoln_John

SIOUX FALLS — Negotiations are under way to settle a decade-old court case that claimed a New York brewer used the name of Sioux warrior Crazy Horse on a brand of malt liquor without permission.

On Tuesday, U.S. District Judge Lawrence Piersol dismissed the lawsuit and gave both sides until Feb. 9 to reopen the case if settlement talks don't bear fruit.

"I believe it's the right thing to do," Seth H. Big Crow, administrator of the Crazy Horse estate, said of the pending settlement.

"To me, the idea is to preserve the name" of Crazy Horse, he said.

The case had been scheduled to go to trial next week.

The dispute began in 1992 when Hornell Brewing Co. of Brooklyn, N.Y., bottled "The Original Crazy Horse Malt Liquor." Sales began in March 1992.

In 1993, Crazy Horse's descendants sued the company in tribal court, but appellate courts ruled the case belonged in federal jurisdiction. The most recent suit was filed Oct. 30, 2000, in U.S. District Court in Sioux Falls. The Rosebud Sioux Tribe joined the Crazy Horse estate and Big Crow in the suit.

"In principle, it's settled," Robert Gough, attorney for the estate, said.

"We were encouraged by the court toward the end of last year" to reach a settlement, he said.

"It's the normal process of the federal court ... to see if there is a way to settle these things without going to court."

An amended complaint filed March 13, 2002, asked the court to stop Hornell from using the name or likeness of Crazy Horse to sell any product. The plaintiffs wanted a judge to order the malt-liquor products or containers to be collected and destroyed.

They also sought damages related to what Hornell has made from using Crazy Horse's name on their product, additional damages to compensate the family for emotional distress, punitive damages and other demands.

An attorney for Hornell could not be reached for comment Wednesday.

Gough said both sides will announce the results of settlement talks, probably later this month. "We're working the final details of what we believe will be a fair settlement."

Crazy Horse was an Oglala Sioux warrior who led the defeat of Lt. Col. George A. Custer at the Battle of the Little Bighorn on June 25, 1876.

Big Crow, 65, said his great-grandmother and Crazy Horse's mother were sisters.

He said Hornell must take the Crazy Horse name off the label and that if the settlement is not to his liking, the case will go back to court.

"If I'm not satisfied, we'll go for broke," Big Crow said in a telephone interview.

A tribal judge threw the original case out of tribal court in 1994, prompting an appeal to the Rosebud Supreme Court. In June 1996, the Rosebud court said the tribal court had jurisdiction.

In November 1997, Hornell asked a federal appeals court to take the lawsuit out of tribal court because the product never had been sold on the Rosebud Indian Reservation.

One of the defendants, SBC Holdings, settled with the estate in April 2001. John Stroh III, SBC chairman, read a letter of apology to the Crazy Horse descendants at a ceremony in Mission.

Big Crow said Crazy Horse Malt Liquor is still being sold. "They still have it on the market," he said.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: New York; US: South Dakota
KEYWORDS: crazyhorse; lawsuits; nativeamericans; sioux; tortreform

1 posted on 01/08/2004 11:23:08 AM PST by Land_of_Lincoln_John
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To: Land_of_Lincoln_John
Is Neil Young going to get sued, too, for the name of his backup band?
2 posted on 01/08/2004 11:25:37 AM PST by NYCVirago
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To: Land_of_Lincoln_John
I was always partial to James Bowie, myself.
3 posted on 01/08/2004 11:25:46 AM PST by JohnGalt (A 40 oz to freedom is the only chance I have to feel good when I feel bad)
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To: All
Be part of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Make a donation!
4 posted on 01/08/2004 11:26:11 AM PST by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: Land_of_Lincoln_John
U.S. District Judge Lawrence Piersol dismissed the lawsuit and gave both sides until Feb. 9 to reopen the case if settlement talks don't bear fruit.

I don't get it, Indians want to be sovereign nations when it comes to building tax free casinos and selling tax free cigarettes but then want to us the US courts when they feel it will benefit them...

5 posted on 01/08/2004 11:27:47 AM PST by 2banana
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To: Land_of_Lincoln_John
If your name consists of two common nouns, I really don't see how you can sue somebody for using it, especially after you've been dead for a hundred years.
6 posted on 01/08/2004 11:29:48 AM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: Land_of_Lincoln_John
I guess they won't be making Crazy Horse Malt Liquor the official drink of the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation anytime soon. I think Tom Daschle would be deeply saddened by this whole turn of events.
7 posted on 01/08/2004 11:30:03 AM PST by speedy
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To: JohnGalt
I like Sam Adams.
8 posted on 01/08/2004 11:33:20 AM PST by Ramius
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To: Land_of_Lincoln_John
Not to be confused with this: Good ol' San Miguel Red Horse...I never liked it but others swore by it.
9 posted on 01/08/2004 11:33:41 AM PST by tongue-tied
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To: 2banana
I don't get it, Indians want to be sovereign nations when it comes to building tax free casinos and selling tax free cigarettes but then want to us the US courts when they feel it will benefit them...

The treaties were made freely by the US government. The Indians are citizens. The tort took place off reservation. You sue others in the proper venue. If you sue someone in China before your hometown magistrate, how will you get recompense?

That might help you get it.

10 posted on 01/08/2004 11:34:45 AM PST by Protagoras (When they asked me what I thought of freedom in America,,, I said I thought it would be a good idea.)
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To: Ramius
Sam don't come in 40 ozs.
11 posted on 01/08/2004 11:35:12 AM PST by JohnGalt (A 40 oz to freedom is the only chance I have to feel good when I feel bad)
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To: Land_of_Lincoln_John
Great, now Sam Adam's relatives will all be coming out of the woodwork for their payday...
12 posted on 01/08/2004 11:36:33 AM PST by sirshackleton
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To: Land_of_Lincoln_John
It really was good beer.
13 posted on 01/08/2004 11:39:24 AM PST by bayourod ( Dean's anti-terrorism plan: "treat people with respect and they will treat you with respect"12/1/03)
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To: JohnGalt
But it comes in kegs...
14 posted on 01/08/2004 11:42:05 AM PST by Ramius
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To: Ramius
Yes, it does.

I have a home draught system myself; have a 1/2 barrell of Wachusett IPA on tap; its probably been 7 years since I "enjoyed" a 40 O of malt liquor.

With all the great PNW ales, I am impressed to read you drink an East Coast product; you from back this way?
15 posted on 01/08/2004 11:44:00 AM PST by JohnGalt (A 40 oz to freedom is the only chance I have to feel good when I feel bad)
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To: Protagoras
The treaties were made freely by the US government. The Indians are citizens. The tort took place off reservation. You sue others in the proper venue. If you sue someone in China before your hometown magistrate, how will you get recompense?

That might help you get it.

1. If the Indian nation and the US has a treaty covering "copyrights" and other intellectual property

It might be why they tried this case in an Indian court first:

A tribal judge threw the original case out of tribal court in 1994

But if you are going to have treaties that cover mundane things like intellectual property, you are probably going to have treaties that cover reciprocal taxation, fair cost of defense and such...

That might help you get it.

16 posted on 01/08/2004 11:47:35 AM PST by 2banana
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To: Land_of_Lincoln_John
Crazy Horse Malt Liquor is without question the most powerful beer I have ever drank. That stuff would get you F'ed Up.

And friend of mine who happens to be an indian (Feather, not dot) thinks the suit is stupid and has a large collection of crazy horse bottles.

17 posted on 01/08/2004 11:59:11 AM PST by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: 2banana
May I say, as an Indian, the US courts are the only courts we have. (except for tribal courts that only handle local petty cases on Tribal Land only) On top of that we have to get the U.S. governments permission to sue them if we have a cause to sue them. Once in the past my tribe had to sue the Government and it took almost 10 years to get on the court calendar, another 10 years to win the case. By the time we got the money most of the people that were sueing were dead. So, as far as I am concerned Go Casinos, make a billion, tax free too.
18 posted on 01/08/2004 12:01:08 PM PST by fish hawk
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To: 2banana
You are the one who said you didn't get it, not me.

The treaties I was refering to were the ones that you seem to deride that gave the Indians the right to do certain things in their own "nation" as you call it. It has nothing to do with copyrights.

I get it, you seem confused. I'm guessing you will never get it and I'm not interested in chasing my tail. Have fun.

19 posted on 01/08/2004 12:03:42 PM PST by Protagoras (When they asked me what I thought of freedom in America,,, I said I thought it would be a good idea.)
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To: Chad Fairbanks
feather ping
20 posted on 01/08/2004 12:05:10 PM PST by stands2reason ("Dean is God's reward to Mr. Bush for doing the right thing in the war on terror." Dick Morris)
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To: fish hawk
He won't get it, you are wasting your breath.

Got any cheap cigarettes for sale? I likem injuns, most anyway. :^}

21 posted on 01/08/2004 12:05:39 PM PST by Protagoras (When they asked me what I thought of freedom in America,,, I said I thought it would be a good idea.)
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To: fish hawk
Hi Fish Hawk, what's your take on Leonard Peltier?
22 posted on 01/08/2004 12:09:51 PM PST by labowski ("The Dude Abideth")
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To: speedy
**I guess they won't be making Crazy Horse Malt Liquor the official drink of the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation ***

It will make the manufacturers of alcohol based hair spray(aka Cheyenne Champagne) very happy.
23 posted on 01/08/2004 12:17:20 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Funny -- has that surpassed a cold bottle of Lectric Shave as the ersatz booze of choice on the reservation?
24 posted on 01/08/2004 12:25:16 PM PST by speedy
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To: dead
Not to be too pedantic, but wouldn't that be a noun and an adjective? (although crazy could be used as a noun, it's normally used as an adjective, as is the case here)
25 posted on 01/08/2004 12:43:11 PM PST by -YYZ-
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To: -YYZ-
You're right. I had a friend in college named Crazy and that through me off. 8-)
26 posted on 01/08/2004 1:24:30 PM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: dead
It threw me off too.
27 posted on 01/08/2004 1:25:39 PM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: labowski
I know Leonard Peltier is guilty of a lot of things but not sure about the killing of those two agents. I think they already did ballistics and the bullets did not come from his gun. That's the word at least. Did you know he was hijacked out of Canada. They took him like the Israelis took Eikman (sp.) out of Argentina. His lawyers appealed but to no avail.
28 posted on 01/08/2004 1:29:19 PM PST by fish hawk
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To: fish hawk
Yes, I think I remember something about him being taken illegally out of Canada. I might try and watch Incident at Oglala again tonight. I also recall two of the others charged were not convicted. I think his last chance at a pardon was with Clinton, and if Clinton wouldn't grant him a pardon I don't think he will get another chance. He is due for a parole hearing in Dec. 2008, but I doubt anything will change.

Are you familiar with John Trudell? I have one of his cd's, haven't heard much from him in a while, loved his Mohawk in Thunderheart though.
29 posted on 01/08/2004 1:59:02 PM PST by labowski ("The Dude Abideth")
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To: labowski
just looked up John Trudell, I never heard of him before. Looks interesting. One of my favorite groups is Brule. All indian band doing contemporary and old mixed together. Very good. Their CDs are One Nation and We the People. These are both really good.
30 posted on 01/08/2004 3:30:19 PM PST by fish hawk
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To: fish hawk
**Leonard Peltier **

Many of the American Indians in Oklahoma believe he is guilty as h@ll.
31 posted on 01/08/2004 8:04:41 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: labowski
apparently his bribe offer to Clinton was not sufficient.
32 posted on 01/08/2004 8:08:07 PM PST by breakem
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
They "believe" he is guilty. Only "facts" should be considered here. And, do we really know the facts. If the government kidnapped him out of Canada , are we to believe everything they say about his guilt?
33 posted on 01/08/2004 9:28:36 PM PST by fish hawk
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To: tongue-tied
Good ol' San Miguel Red Horse...

I remember that stuff! Tasted like crap but it had a pretty high alcohol content. Get you messed up fast.

34 posted on 01/08/2004 10:11:36 PM PST by GATOR NAVY
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To: Land_of_Lincoln_John
"To me, the idea is to preserve the name" of Crazy Horse, he said.

In other words, "To me, the idea is to make a pack of money off the name of Crazy Horse, and we want our cut."
35 posted on 01/08/2004 10:13:35 PM PST by aruanan
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To: GATOR NAVY
Yeah and a bottle that was so big, unless you slammed it you were forced to drink warm beer toward the end.

I used to love to stop in the small gift stores, ask for a beer (4 pesos there) and watch them chip the ice from the freezer to get at it. Man, those were the best and most refreshing beers of liberty.
36 posted on 01/09/2004 8:26:28 AM PST by tongue-tied
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To: tongue-tied
We never drank Red Horse in the PI. There was something about it that wasn't very good in the heat. I always remember drinking it in Okinawa.

In Subic right after Pinatubo there was almost no electricity and all the beer was on ice. It was great.
37 posted on 01/09/2004 6:10:31 PM PST by GATOR NAVY
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To: tongue-tied
or swore at it... see my website at http://hometown.aol.com/rathole2331/red_horse.html
and learn what red horse is all about!
38 posted on 01/16/2004 1:26:41 AM PST by rathole
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To: Land_of_Lincoln_John
Malt liquor? That ain't right. If you're going to name a beer after Crazy Horse, it should at least be a good one.
39 posted on 01/16/2004 1:35:47 AM PST by RichInOC (Rocket Fuel Malt Liquor...DAMN! It's CRIZAPPY!)
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To: rathole
yep, that's the stuff. I've even washed down a balut with that crap. Of course, that was after several pitchers of mojo (mojo makes you smart!) and somewhere around 0130 in the Midnight Rambler Bar in Barretto. (Weirdly, I still remember the address for my leave papers...133 Natl Hiway, Barrio Barretto, Zambales P.I. The zip escapes me now, but I believe it was 2332)

Ah, the memories.
40 posted on 01/16/2004 8:24:24 AM PST by tongue-tied
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