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Bush's Ridiculous Speech About Immigration Reform
RightWingNews ^

Posted on 01/08/2004 1:10:01 PM PST by Happy2BMe

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To: All
Regardless of your feeelings about immigration (and the absurd claims of the Mexican haters that Americans are jumping at the chance to be picking crops in fields all day long; Mexicans came into those jobs because...even with higher wages, there were not enough WASPS to fill the jobs), there are several facts that the people attacking Bush are ignoring.

1. Contrary to the leaks prior to his speech, an employer must search for an American to fill the job, and can only fill the position with a foreigner if no American is found.
2. It is not a plan that will lead to citizenship, as the leaks made it out to be. In fact, Mexican groups are furious the plan does "too little." The program is only for three years. It is renewable, but only if the person keeps the job. Those already in the U.S. will have to pay a "fee".....really a fine....to join the program.
3. Again contrary to leaks, Bush made clear yesterday that these people will not be treated like citizens. They will not get social security as earlier claimed by the people hysterically attacking the program, but instead retirement funding from their home countries...as they will have to return home, not stay in the United States.
101 posted on 01/08/2004 3:14:39 PM PST by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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To: onedoug
But it's tenable that 35% of illegals are on welfare? The Fed toss'ed them out of their airport jobs, the applications to fill those jobs rose to 7,000 in a week.

They toss'ed them out of Walmart, they need to keep the ball rolling, obey the laws of the land, and do what's right by their fellow countryman.

The only people that will complain is left wing communists and as the last few elections indicate, it's not only safe to ignore them, it' paramount if you want to hold a government office.
102 posted on 01/08/2004 3:17:11 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: Owen
>>What does this mean? Is this another outcry at the horror of allowing a human born in the US to be a citizen, as opposed to undoing that law and managing the population on the basis of genetics?<<

What in the hell are you talking about? Genetics? Name one place where "race" as opposed to "nationality" has been addressed. Take your racist accusations somewhere else.

>>This would trash all respect for US territoriatlity.<<

Yeah, Mexicans really respect our borders now, right? Please, limit your points to relevant ones.

>>Humans born here are Americans. Shipping Americans south and condemning them to 3rd world care is as unAmerican a thing as can be imagined. <<

That is beyond ridiculous. Not worthy of a response.
103 posted on 01/08/2004 3:17:20 PM PST by SerpentDove
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To: Happy2BMe
As it was said after CFR, including me.

But guess what, even after he signed it, he retained immovable support in the GOP.

When it comes to election day, these disagreements do not result in significantly fewer votes. Yes, a vote or two here and there gone, but that's it. The votes picked up outweigh the ones lost.
104 posted on 01/08/2004 3:17:42 PM PST by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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To: sigarms
"Pandering at the expense of security".

For all his egomania and bombast, Savage does have a way of getting to the core of an issue. I would also add "at the expense of America's blue-collar workers". As I've said before, no hard-working, self-respecting American worker can compete with laborers who live eight to a trailer and sleep on the floor in sleeping bags.

105 posted on 01/08/2004 3:18:20 PM PST by arm958
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To: All
I was disappointed that Bush did not unveil a plan to use technology to monitor the borders though.

I think that ultimately those crying for "close the borders" are very short-sighted in thinking that somehow a fence will stop immigrants from coming here through the border. They will find a way in. But, I think that technology could be used to an extent to improve our ability to catch illegals coming across the border. This would make a lot more long-term sense than putting up some fence or deploying half the military to the borders.

I was hoping Bush would also propose something like that, but he didn't. Oh well I guess.
106 posted on 01/08/2004 3:24:20 PM PST by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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To: rwfromkansas
The votes picked up outweigh the ones lost.

The votes picked up from where? All polls indicate that at least 70% of the electorate is against the President's plan. So he's not picking those new votes up from the center, which undoubtedly is included in that large percentage. He's certainly not picking up votes from the right or left either. So you must be referring to Hispanics. Well I got news for you: Hispanics will continue to vote 'Rat overwhelmingly regardless of how enthusiastically the Prez panders, and historically they vote in low #'s anyway.

107 posted on 01/08/2004 3:29:43 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: org.whodat
If you're refering to the H-2A guest worker program, the beauracracy currently involved with it and the qualifications neccessary for a farmer to be approved for it is very rather cost prohibitive and usually yields no benefit for the farmer or service provider in the end.

A broader guest worker program such as the one President Bush proposes would foreseeably cause market fluctuations initially but also at the same time force job markets such as service provision and farm work to be more competative and perhaps more appealing to the average citizen. Whom by default under the President's plan get to take precedent in the hiring process of such labor positions.

So how familiar are you with the H-2A guest worker program???
108 posted on 01/08/2004 3:31:38 PM PST by Tempest
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To: rwfromkansas
thinking that somehow a fence will stop immigrants

Not a fence, but the National Guard .....and a lot of them. It certainly won't stop all of illegals, but it'll stop enough to make a big difference. And don't underestimate the deterrence factor.

I agree with you that high tech monitoring of the borders would be a good idea.

109 posted on 01/08/2004 3:33:12 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: rwfromkansas
"The votes picked up outweigh the ones lost."

Can you be more specific?

110 posted on 01/08/2004 3:37:57 PM PST by Happy2BMe (2004 - Who WILL the TERRORISTS vote for? - - Not George W. Bush, THAT'S for sure!)
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To: rwfromkansas
1. Contrary to the leaks prior to his speech, an employer must search for an American to fill the job, and can only fill the position with a foreigner if no American is found.

Oh you were making 18 an hour? Well now were offering the job for 6. You cant afford to work for that little? Well I guess no Americans are willing to do this job...guest worker please.

2. It is not a plan that will lead to citizenship, as the leaks made it out to be. In fact, Mexican groups are furious the plan does "too little." The program is only for three years. It is renewable, but only if the person keeps the job. Those already in the U.S. will have to pay a "fee".....really a fine....to join the program.

They are not furious. They are bucking at the gate because if they can argue that they are treated as 2nd class, they know they can get more. You are arguing that they will not be treated as citizens but you want them to do the hard work that Americans wont do? Yah and the democrats and illegals are going to thank you for your wonderful charity.

3. Again contrary to leaks, Bush made clear yesterday that these people will not be treated like citizens. They will not get social security as earlier claimed by the people hysterically attacking the program, but instead retirement funding from their home countries...as they will have to return home, not stay in the United States.

Who is going to make them return home?

111 posted on 01/08/2004 3:41:20 PM PST by PuNcH
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To: sigarms
"Pandering at the expense of security".

-- Michael Savage

Did you catch M.S. on Bill O'Reilly this week?

Bill's head looked like one of those little fake mexican dogs you see in the rear window of a '57 Chevy crusing around Los Angeles - bobbing up and down and up and down in agreement with Micahel.

One of the strongest points against gradual illegal immigration amnesty M.S. pointed out was the one most people always overlook.

Namely: For every immigrant given amnesty, his or her spouse, parent(s), children, and immediate next of kin is right behind them in the pipe.

In essence, granting a blue - then green card for say 10 million (very conservative) illegal immigrants easily brings with it another 30 million immigrants.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

112 posted on 01/08/2004 3:44:03 PM PST by Happy2BMe (2004 - Who WILL the TERRORISTS vote for? - - Not George W. Bush, THAT'S for sure!)
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To: MissAmericanPie
Good points. Though these are jobs too, which are not usually considered as within the so-called "underground economy", and are in the thousands as opposed to the millions.

I certainly wouldn't claim W's plan is perfect. But I do think it may ultimately be more workable than the long line of American leaders having done nothing to this point.

113 posted on 01/08/2004 3:53:23 PM PST by onedoug
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To: Guyin4Os
Finally, illegals will be forced to contribute their financial responsibility to this country via payroll deductions because hopefully, they will be receiving a check rather than cash under the table.
114 posted on 01/08/2004 3:57:55 PM PST by Toespi
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To: Happy2BMe
Just read your homepage where you indicate that Reagan was the last REPUBLICAN president.

Refresh my memory: Didn't Reagan sign a BLANKET AMNESTY bill, repeal tax cuts, advocate pro-abortion legislation, preside over the largest budget deficit (as a % of the GDP) in American history -- I could go on, but I'm sure you get my point! [NOTE: I'm not criticising Reagan -- he did what he felt he had to do at the time -- I'm simply providing you with some much needed perspective!]

115 posted on 01/08/2004 3:59:41 PM PST by DrDeb
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To: KantianBurke
This is a classic example of mixing up the "PROBLEM" & "The SYMPTOM"! The problem is Employment. The symptom is the illegal aliens. Companies who knowingly hire un-documentable aliens create the problem by violating the rule and spirit of our laws. This stupid proposal rewards Criminals for doing so. Immigration is a natural desire we produce because of this nation's success and opportunity it creates. The symptomatic results of it all is that we make it so aluring to the have nots and then have no system to explain that it is a pay as you go program everyone must support openly and not from under the woodworks. Illegal aliens are takers not contributors and are content to remain so. Our system of rules must locate, identify and put them on the Tax Rolls and Social Security. This is how you control Immigration; it is a two way street not a black/brown hole!
116 posted on 01/08/2004 4:07:14 PM PST by winker
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To: Stallone
CREATIVE EXPLANATION; BRILLIANT ANALOGIES -- I'm sure you noticed that both were completely ignored!!

[If you don't mind, I plan to repost your commentary on the DOSE tonight!]
117 posted on 01/08/2004 4:16:50 PM PST by DrDeb
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To: Happy2BMe
I asked you what you like about W,but you didn't answer my question. I'll ask again....what has he done that you like, because all I have seen from you are complaints.
118 posted on 01/08/2004 4:18:52 PM PST by Ann Archy
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To: AmericanInTokyo
Are you kidding?

I have tried to contact INS about illegals.
No one answers, you get Voice-mail®.

Press #1 to apply for a visa, even if you are already here,
Press #2 to apply for a visa extension, press 3 to apply for....

At no point will you be offered an option to report illegals or their employers!
119 posted on 01/08/2004 4:19:40 PM PST by Richard-SIA (Nuke the U.N!)
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To: Happy2BMe
I asked you what you like about W,but you didn't answer my question. I'll ask again....what has he done that you like, because all I have seen from you are complaints.

I ALSO ASKED WHO YOU VOTED FOR IN 2000. Care to answer??

120 posted on 01/08/2004 4:19:51 PM PST by Ann Archy
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To: kevao
Of course not....He ONLY carps...I was asking what he liked about W and who he voted for. Notice he didn't answer Either of those simple questions.
121 posted on 01/08/2004 4:21:46 PM PST by Ann Archy
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To: navyblue
I'll bet you that Bush wins in a landslide...EVEN Calif and New York!!
122 posted on 01/08/2004 4:26:09 PM PST by Ann Archy
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To: SerpentDove
> >>What does this mean? Is this another outcry at the horror of allowing a human born in the US to be a citizen, as opposed to undoing that law and managing the population on the basis of genetics?<<

What in the hell are you talking about? Genetics? Name one place where "race" as opposed to "nationality" has been addressed. Take your racist accusations somewhere else. > Genetics. As in who your parents are. Rather than respect the reality of birth on US territory, extremists are advocating limiting citizenship only to offspring of citizens. That, my friend, is genetics.

123 posted on 01/08/2004 4:28:17 PM PST by Owen
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To: rwfromkansas
"I was disappointed that Bush did not unveil a plan to use technology to monitor the borders though."

This plan is already "underconstruction" as part of the SMART BORDERS INITIATIVE (included in the 2003 Homeland Security budget):
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/20020125.html

Additionally, the biometric technology recently implemented at our airports will be implemented at our borders by the end of this year.





124 posted on 01/08/2004 4:40:23 PM PST by DrDeb
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To: DrDeb
Thank you for your respctive on Ronald Reagan.

He made mistakes and he admitted them.

If there is one word I can use to describe Ronald Reagan, it is RELIABLE.

You always knew where he stood, always knew what he stood for, always knew what he stood against, and you always knew he stood up for right, even when it was not popular.

Regarding President Bush's standings on abortion, gay rights, immigration reform, and protecting American jobs, I regretfully cannot compare his integrity with that of Ronald Reagan.

Dubya is looking more RINO with each passing compromise.

And it remains to be seen just how huge a compromise he succumbed to yesterday over immigration "reform."

I'm not impressed.

125 posted on 01/08/2004 4:52:25 PM PST by Happy2BMe (2004 - Who WILL the TERRORISTS vote for? - - Not George W. Bush, THAT'S for sure!)
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To: Owen
>> Rather than respect the reality of birth on US territory, extremists are advocating limiting citizenship only to offspring of citizens. <<

If that is your definition of extremist, count me in. Comprende?
126 posted on 01/08/2004 4:52:32 PM PST by SerpentDove
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To: DrDeb
Pardon - meant to say, "Thank you for your perspective"
127 posted on 01/08/2004 4:56:26 PM PST by Happy2BMe (2004 - Who WILL the TERRORISTS vote for? - - Not George W. Bush, THAT'S for sure!)
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To: Happy2BMe
"Regarding President Bush's standings on abortion, gay rights, immigration reform, and protecting American jobs, I regretfully cannot compare his integrity with that of Ronald Reagan."


Forgive me, for I do not understand. President Reagan SAID the RIGHT thing relative to each of these areas and then DID the LEFT thing, yet it's President Bush who has the integrity problem?! I actually listened to Bush when he was governor of Texas and when he was campaigning for the presidency, he has remained "reliably" consistent in his views -- stated AND behaved!

You may disagree with President Bush's policies, but you have NO REASON to question his integrity!
128 posted on 01/08/2004 5:59:10 PM PST by DrDeb
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To: DrDeb
What "left things" did President Reagan do?
129 posted on 01/08/2004 6:02:49 PM PST by BikerNYC
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To: DrDeb
Thank you for your opinion.

I reserve the right to question the integrity of any polititian, regardless of party affiliation or platform, motto or creed if it appears that such person is acting in self-gain or not acting in the best interest of this country.

I reamin unimpressed by Dubya's weak attempt to put a bandaid on a cancer patient, tell him to take two aspirins prior to going to bed, and send him home telling him to come back next month (only if he is not feeling any better).

As I said, compromise is not becoming a great leader - regardless of WHO that leader is.

130 posted on 01/08/2004 6:23:36 PM PST by Happy2BMe (2004 - Who WILL the TERRORISTS vote for? - - Not George W. Bush, THAT'S for sure!)
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To: DrDeb
Wow...awesome.
131 posted on 01/08/2004 6:47:53 PM PST by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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To: Tempest
So how familiar are you with the H-2A guest worker program???

I'm a farm bud, who do you think cut's my tobacco?

132 posted on 01/08/2004 6:48:06 PM PST by org.whodat (Someone turn Bush over he's done.)
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To: BikerNYC
"What "left things" did President Reagan do?"


Please refer to my post at #115!

[If you're a history buff like me, you may already know that President Reagan was attacked incessantly by his right flank, beginning with his tenure as governor of California and continuing thru his Presidency -- Anne Coulter even makes reference to this fact in her most recent book! STRONG LEADERS EVOKE STRONG REACTIONS -- and yes, I'm refering to both President Reagan and President Bush!]
133 posted on 01/08/2004 6:53:11 PM PST by DrDeb
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To: Happy2BMe
I wasn't questioning your "rights"; I was questioning your hypocrisy!
134 posted on 01/08/2004 6:54:07 PM PST by DrDeb
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To: DrDeb
I am not ALONE
135 posted on 01/08/2004 6:59:39 PM PST by Happy2BMe (2004 - Who WILL the TERRORISTS vote for? - - Not George W. Bush, THAT'S for sure!)
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To: org.whodat
So are you saying that you've employed the H-2A guest worker program. So how much do you end up paying your workers then and how are their accomadations??? Hmmmmm....

136 posted on 01/08/2004 7:05:01 PM PST by Tempest
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To: Happy2BMe
Again, I'm not addressing your position on immigration; I'm addressing your hypocritical assessment of President Bush relative to President Reagan!
137 posted on 01/08/2004 7:06:47 PM PST by DrDeb
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To: Happy2BMe
The US has a totally disfunctional INS... not a word about fixing that... What I see is Bush sweeping up the dirt and putting under the homeland security RUG.. and a wipeing of the hands together with the words "and thats that!"...

The only thing missing is a Curley(Howard) salute and a Curly shuffle out of the oval office... and I'M NOT LAUGHING!... WHO elected this guy ?...

(( ME ! )).. leaving out the back door, embarrased

138 posted on 01/08/2004 7:08:31 PM PST by hosepipe
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To: SerpentDove
If that is your definition of extremist, count me in.

I'll join you.

139 posted on 01/08/2004 7:12:43 PM PST by sarcasm (Tancredo 2004)
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To: hosepipe
"What I see is Bush sweeping up the dirt and putting under the homeland security RUG.. and a wipeing of the hands together with the words "and thats that!"...

Did you catch the televised briefing the President gave of his new immigration reform?

I did.

I sensed a great sense of urgency - even a sense of anxiety I've rarely detected in Bush and among his staff.

As he introduced his staff, starting from Secratary of State Colin Powell down to his Homeland Seucrity Secratary, Tom Ridge, I noticed the expressions on the faces of each of these men as they were introduced.

Expressions say many things.

I kept watching the face of one of the president's staff as they were being introduced, in succession of order of precedence according to their jobs.

I have met and conversed with the Secratary of ATF personally, so I focused in on the expression of his face as the names were being called.

It was an expression of remaining calm and almost had the look of not "wanting" to be introduced at this particular briefing.

It was a big deal and all the heavy hitters were there.

The "jitters" were flying and my impression is a "bomb" has exploded right in the middle of the administration and Dubya is doing damage control.

140 posted on 01/08/2004 7:16:48 PM PST by Happy2BMe (2004 - Who WILL the TERRORISTS vote for? - - Not George W. Bush, THAT'S for sure!)
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To: DrDeb
Again, George Bush wouldn't know what to do with even the shadow of Ronald Reagan.
141 posted on 01/08/2004 7:18:58 PM PST by Happy2BMe (2004 - Who WILL the TERRORISTS vote for? - - Not George W. Bush, THAT'S for sure!)
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To: Happy2BMe
Bush lost our votes here. I will oppose him for the rest of my life. I cannot imagine the America he has planned for my children. He makes me sick.
142 posted on 01/08/2004 7:19:14 PM PST by Afronaut (Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil.)
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To: BikerNYC
What "left things" did President Reagan do?

Signed the first hand gun registration act in the country while president. Vetoed a law repealing special protections for gays while governor, raised taxes while president, pulled marines out of Lebanon when casualties were taken, Publicly lobbied for passage of the Brady bill after he left office, stated that the department of education was vital to the country, passed a large increase in social security taxes, voted for FDR 4 times, even after his election listed FDR as his top role model, never once challenged any abortion legislation, did nothing to repeal ANY anti-gun bill. Shall I go on?

143 posted on 01/08/2004 7:20:16 PM PST by Texasforever
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To: Afronaut
Bush as a person does not make me sick.

He has not lost my vote (simply because I have not missed casting my vote in over thirty years and 2004 is not the year I will start).

Also, because the Republican Party cannot come up with anyone better (for now).

Hang in there.

144 posted on 01/08/2004 7:24:11 PM PST by Happy2BMe (2004 - Who WILL the TERRORISTS vote for? - - Not George W. Bush, THAT'S for sure!)
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To: Texasforever
Yes, keep going on, this is entertaining.
145 posted on 01/08/2004 7:25:54 PM PST by Happy2BMe (2004 - Who WILL the TERRORISTS vote for? - - Not George W. Bush, THAT'S for sure!)
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To: Tempest
Ever heard of something called a co-op.
146 posted on 01/08/2004 7:28:40 PM PST by org.whodat (Someone turn Bush over he's done.)
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To: Happy2BMe
He is selling out this once great country for 3 million votes and you are still with him? You can Press one for English I will oppose any man who thinks he can give away America to anyone who can get with in it's borders. Who the Hell does Bush think he is?
147 posted on 01/08/2004 7:36:22 PM PST by Afronaut (Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil.)
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To: Afronaut
It makes no sense, does it?
148 posted on 01/08/2004 7:38:54 PM PST by SerpentDove
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To: Happy2BMe
[ The "jitters" were flying and my impression is a "bomb" has exploded right in the middle of the administration and Dubya is doing damage control. ]

Well somebody surely farted... thats for sure.. could be some advisor(s) suggested he sign this idiocy.. Hes(Bush) gonna keep it up and snatch defeat out of the mouth of victory this guy.. just like his daddy did.. Bush is becomeing a serious liabilty HIMSELF to his re-election.. Maybe it runs in the family(losers).. We have a year left.. Tricking democrats to vote for him is SILLY.. democrats are masters of tricking voters to vote for them.. I pray God the democrats don't finally see their real winning platform..

I.E. Don't vote for faux democrat--> VOTE FOR A REAL ONE...
Although it would be hard for democrats to tell the truth but if they did Bush would be toast.. The republicans are stealing our issues WELL LET THEM stop whineing..but vote for a REAL democrat come election time.. WE DO DEMOCRAT RIGHT.. Republicans copy us because we've got the goods...(shudder)

149 posted on 01/08/2004 7:39:55 PM PST by hosepipe
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To: Afronaut
"Who the Hell does Bush think he is?"

Up until the day before yesterday, I was positive I had the answer to that guestion.

(And I am not ALONE)

150 posted on 01/08/2004 7:39:55 PM PST by Happy2BMe (2004 - Who WILL the TERRORISTS vote for? - - Not George W. Bush, THAT'S for sure!)
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