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Bush's Ridiculous Speech About Immigration Reform
RightWingNews ^

Posted on 01/08/2004 1:10:01 PM PST by Happy2BMe

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To: SerpentDove
I have been feeling sick to my stomach since this was announced.
151 posted on 01/08/2004 7:44:17 PM PST by Afronaut (Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil.)
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To: hosepipe
>>Hes(Bush) gonna keep it up and snatch defeat out of the mouth of victory this guy.. just like his daddy did.. Bush is becomeing a serious liabilty HIMSELF to his re-election.. <<

I agree. It seems MAYBE he got too cute for his own good this time. Time after time he has dared conservatives not to vote for him. Wonder what the internal polling on this issue looks like right about now?

Who was he appealing to? Who, outside of Mexicans, is giving out a big old hoop and holler? I don't hear it from anybody!

If we lose the White House to the Dems over this, the FR servers will be red hot and fried from the angry responses.
152 posted on 01/08/2004 7:47:09 PM PST by SerpentDove
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To: org.whodat
OK so what's your point????
153 posted on 01/08/2004 8:04:20 PM PST by Tempest
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To: Happy2BMe
bttt
154 posted on 01/08/2004 8:04:30 PM PST by SerpentDove
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To: org.whodat
Perhaps I should try the vague explaination approach too. . .
155 posted on 01/08/2004 8:05:02 PM PST by Tempest
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To: SerpentDove
[ If we lose the White House to the Dems over this, the FR servers will be red hot and fried from the angry responses. ]

True, he did'nt have to do this to get re-elected.. He did it because he wanted to do it.. Really... when he announced this on TV my democrat-O-meter pegged out.. very interesting... but just like Jim Baker the TV huckster still has his ever faithful... so will Bush have his.. so does Jummy Swaggert... all he will need to do is come on TV and moan "I'VE SINNED against the capitalist God", and many will forgive him... I WON'T... the Bushdebeast is afoot and hungry..

156 posted on 01/08/2004 8:10:34 PM PST by hosepipe
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To: Tempest
Perhaps you should try to state what you are trying to prove instead of some bogus argument about the cost of produce. My point is that illegal is illegal, amnesty is amnesty. I never said I was against legal immigration nor against the current guest worker programs. Though they do need work in the upper income area and they are abused by many businesses.

I for one do not want to see kids in this country, who are not college material, condemned to a life of minimum wage. Which will be the result of 40 million people coming into this country.

157 posted on 01/08/2004 8:27:28 PM PST by org.whodat (Someone turn Bush over he's done.)
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To: Happy2BMe
OJ Gets Off.

Clinton's Get Off.

Illegal Aliens Get Off.

And us legal, law abiding, hard working as well, in case anyone in the Bush Administration has forgotten, Get Nada, except in paying mucho grande taxes to fund these new sacred cows.

158 posted on 01/08/2004 8:38:19 PM PST by harpo11 (OK, Let Me Try to Get It, If You Are An Illegal Alien You Get Rewarded, But, If You Are Rush???)
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To: Happy2BMe
Nice job of disseminating Dubya's bullsh*t non-policy and disturbing sell-out.

Of course, many Bots-in-Freeperland will merely knock down another mug of Kool-ade as the President leads them over the cliff.

159 posted on 01/08/2004 8:39:41 PM PST by F16Fighter
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To: RolandBurnam
"at least he is on offense!"


Personally, I think he's on a stealth attack and I really like Bush.
160 posted on 01/08/2004 8:46:27 PM PST by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get)
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To: onedoug
W's plan will not work and he knows it will not work. The reason our laws on the books have not worked is because polticians have put pressure on the INS not to do it's job.

We need boots on the border, an investigation into corruption in the INS, root out the congressmen putting pressure on the INS not to do it's job and impeach them right out of office. Then we need the laws on the books to be enforced along with laws deporting those with no income other than welfare and jobs that pay them under the table.
161 posted on 01/08/2004 8:59:18 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: org.whodat
Alright here's my point. Earlier you proclaimed to me that there was already a guest worker program for farm workers I pointed out that this is true. It's known as the H-2A migrant farm workers act.

Now here's my point. The H-2A migrant farm workers act is not good for business and does not make farm work better or more appealing to American citizens. Although it does cost farmers alot and it wondeful for migrant farm workers. Why?? Well because H-2A requires the employer to file large amounts of documentation and pay large fees in order to use migrant farm workers every time planting and then picking season comes around. The farmer is also required to pay the immigrant minimum wage or above minus taxes which are automatically deducted. Then on top of that he has to provide direct transportation for them from the border directly to the work site along with room and board during the time in which they are working with the farmer and then the farmer also has to drive them back across the border.

All this usually leaves the farmer ending up on the short end of the stick or barely breaking even. Under Bush's proposal immigrants are required to recieve legal work status on their own and provide the documents to the farmer. This isn't a major benefit I understand. But here comes the good part. Under a broad guest worker program where the immigrants can maintain there stay here legally. The farmer saves money by not having to pay for room and board. Yet he'll lose money due to the increased wages in which he'll surely have to pay from farm workers who suddenly feel entitled to a wage increase simply because they do not have to fear the threat of deportation from their employer. This in turn will make farming jobs more competative and in relation with Bush's proposal citizens would be eligible for the jobs before illegal immigrants. (not that you'll find many citizen interested int he job right now anyways, so I'm not sure why they're complaining?!? But I digress)

Anyways this proposal will most likely extend to other fields in which an illegal immigrant workforce is already prevelant in. Such as maids, dishwashers, and other service areas which are typically low paying but will now be more competative.

Of course that's just one scenario which I've ran through, there are many more some which could be more positive or less.

As for this comment:

"I for one do not want to see kids in this country, who are not college material, condemned to a life of minimum wage. Which will be the result of 40 million people coming into this country."

I'm not quite sure what you were alluding too? Are you saying that an influx of illegal immigrants would cause established citizens to wind up with minimum wage jobs??? So are you under the assumption that legal guest workers would undercut many low skill moderate pay jobs?!?!? Perhaps, but not likely. I'm not quite sure patrons would take to kindly to the fact that their waiter or grocery checker doesn't speak english and most likely stole "Jack's" job due to undercutting. Perhaps you could elaborate on your perspective.
162 posted on 01/08/2004 9:01:33 PM PST by Tempest
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To: MissAmericanPie
I'll sure lobby my Congressional Marxists from California to exercize some similar derrier shifting on this issue.

I hope you will too.

Meanwhile, W has beaten Congress to it by being the only President to have actually finally done something outside the decades old box.

(Not to mention having pulled the rug out from under the so-called democrats on one of their supposedly proprietary issues, again.)

163 posted on 01/08/2004 9:35:45 PM PST by onedoug
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To: DrDeb
You are most welcome!
164 posted on 01/08/2004 9:55:05 PM PST by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: onedoug
Yes he has done something, he has made trip after trip to Mexico to insure Fox that he will get him what he wants at all costs. Then he has come home and tried to sneak an amnesty through twice, the only thing that stopped it where freepers and other conservative sites calling in and demanding it not pass.

Now he has this unworkable, unfair, dangerous, unenforcable, no control at the border plan, to reward millions of more gate crashers. He has the IMF suggesting that no one loan us any more money for our national debt because it is too out of hand and the dollar is falling.

Wonder what he will do for fun in his next term? I already know, he will sign us over lock, stock, and barrel to the FTA treaty, placing us under international law, and ending our status as a sovereign nation altogether. No thanks, I feel like I have been suicidal enough in spending decades voting for Republicans to represent me and spending decades watching them not only not represent me, but actually doing as much damage to me and the nation as they can manage.

They have blown their last chance with me if this amnesty passes. I will know for sure the congress cannot be counted on to protect us from the FTA treaty or anything else.
165 posted on 01/08/2004 10:04:42 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: DrDeb
The 55 mph speed limit was ignored by the vast majority of Americans. All were BREAKING THE LAW. It was a stupid and unworkable law.

The newly-revised speed limit acknowledges something else - REALITY.

For decades, illegal aliens have entered America and lawmakers looked the other way. Americans have embraced them, hired them and protected them. Without their support, they would have withered on the vine.

Now Bush alone did not cause this. YOUR MANY FELLOW AMERICANS DID.

You are asking George Bush to deport them all, right now. Or, just pass the buck and ignore it like everyone else. It is preposterous, but maybe you don't know it - yet.

This principled stand of suicide, the kind of tin-eared McClintock nonsense that put us into the margins for nearly a decade, is sheer political stupidity. Yeah, yeah, it is better to die than compromise...give it up.

Instead, Bush challenges the conventional thinking and saves the best of them, and loses the worst.

He has established a datum reference line, and can be hardcore on those that don't follow the rules from now on. Like raising the speed limit to a more workable level, Bush has accepted the reality that VOTING AMERICANS LIKE YOU hire these people. HE IS DEALING WITH THAT REALITY.

It is BRILLIANT, and GOP'ers failing to see this is not only expected, because most blind Conservatives could not understand the concept of an Arnold vs. the unelectable McClintock, but rather it is the ONLY likely initial response I would have expected.

I would be truly stunned if even 10% of Republicans understood the rationale now. That there is one other person on this board that 'gets it' absolutely astonishes me.

But I believe that in time this initiative will be seen as yet another stroke of bold strateregy by this remarkable President.

Thank God for President Bush.

166 posted on 01/08/2004 10:16:33 PM PST by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: Stoptaxing
A surprising threat to freedom-Campaign Finance Reform thread-day 29

167 posted on 01/08/2004 11:14:39 PM PST by The_Eaglet (Michael Peroutka for President)
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To: kevao
"What's worse, we'll be in such a financial bind that we'll have difficulty even financing a war on terror. We'd better vanquish the Islamofascists real quick, before the world wises up and stops financing our debt."


damn good point, unfortunately!
168 posted on 01/09/2004 8:17:36 AM PST by Blzbba
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To: Stallone
<> Kind of like our schools, hospitals, emergency rooms, and infrastructure here in Southern California? <> The "best" are the ones who obeyed the law, played by the rules and became citizens LEGALLY. What was in Bush's plan for them? And those who are still in line? Other than making them feel like saps I really didn't see anything. God willing, when this abomination hits Congress it will be dead on arrival.
169 posted on 01/09/2004 8:25:26 AM PST by Delta-Tango
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To: MissAmericanPie
Well, good luck then, with whomever else you'll vote for in November.

Best.

170 posted on 01/09/2004 8:59:13 AM PST by onedoug
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To: Stallone
Thank God indeed!
171 posted on 01/09/2004 12:26:07 PM PST by DrDeb
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To: international american
"No, our immigration laws don't work or make us proud. You know why? Because we don't make an effort to enforce them. It's like telling your kid to clean his room, having him watch TV instead, and then having him look you in the eye and say, "you know the system we're using to get my room cleaned up just isn't working"."

Stop right there...NUFF SAID!! "No, our immigration laws don't work or make us proud. You know why? Because we don't make an effort to enforce them. It's like telling your kid to clean his room, having him watch TV instead, and then having him look you in the eye and say, "you know the system we're using to get my room cleaned up just isn't working"."

Stop right there...NUFF SAID!!

Ditto.

172 posted on 01/09/2004 3:13:19 PM PST by The_Eaglet (Peroutka for President)
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To: Aquamarine
The government has no trouble enforcing so called laws against posting the Ten Commandments on government property. I'd like to see an illegal alien try that!

LOL... A good one.
173 posted on 01/10/2004 12:48:25 PM PST by singsong (Jesus the Saviour!)
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To: Stallone
Bear down HARD on the remaining illegals, and begin to treat them as that: ILLEGAL.

Like it is done... now! Wow, your' smart.
174 posted on 01/10/2004 1:01:15 PM PST by singsong (Jesus the Saviour!)
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To: singsong
Bush ain't appeasing anyone.

He is differentiating between the mess he inherited, and the future crackdown on illegals required to maintain a secure homeland.

By creating a new legal status, that of temporary worker, Bush can now properly catalogue their presence by self-identification. These workers, if they qualify, will then start contributing their fair-share of taxes, and similarly be protected by employment laws, eliminating the unfair advantage over American employees.

These semi-permanent residents who have been employed by American homes and companies for years will be allowed to apply to the new legal channel, and must agree to comply with the law.

And those that don't, can and will be dealt with harshly, with no media sympathy, because there no longer is a reason not to apply.

The benefits of such a program are orders of magnitude over the existing system.

Any other plan, including McNader round-ups, will NEVER happen as long as there is a 'Rat party.

Count your blessings - Bush has hit a home run.

THINK about it.

175 posted on 01/10/2004 2:32:05 PM PST by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: Texasforever
Shall I go on?

I guess not. I'm convinced. He's a bum.
176 posted on 01/10/2004 2:44:41 PM PST by BikerNYC
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To: SerpentDove
I think the bigger businesses want it.They are in business to make a profit not to provide jobs and they have given Bush a lot of money.

But I've also been thinking that if people are registered they can be drafted--maybe that is also why Bush is presenting this.
177 posted on 01/10/2004 2:53:38 PM PST by freethistle
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To: Stallone
You are living in the clouds. The amount of illegals will stay the same no matter how many are legalized. Don't you get it - it's the civil war issue all over again. Do we increase productivity by smart use of machines or do we reduce costs by importing slave labor? It can't be both. Those who can produce more with less people will live better. For the rest - there might be a natural reduction of their population. But what's happening is the exact opposite - explosive growth and demands for "redistricting". Accommodating such demands sets a totally unnatural chain of events - more and more flooding, less and less PROGRESS.
178 posted on 01/10/2004 3:04:34 PM PST by singsong (Jesus the Saviour!)
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To: Mr. Mojo
Of course Hispanics will keep voting Democratic. Bush lost a great many votes. And for what? A payoff? Blackmail? Or is he on some kind of medication?

All illegals can be and should be rounded up and deported. Who cares what Fox says. Bush didn't care what other countries said when he attacked Iraq. Why care about the illegal aliens who pose a greater long term threat that Saddam?

179 posted on 01/10/2004 3:25:09 PM PST by Dante3
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To: singsong
Listen up!

FACT: Illegal aliens who currently live and work here are required to self-identify and qualify for temporary worker status.

What part of this do you not understand?
180 posted on 01/11/2004 6:22:02 AM PST by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: Stallone
No one says: OPEN the floodgates.

No one says: IMPORT Slave Labor.

You folks are too much.

Start THINKING, and stop EMOTING like Socialists.
181 posted on 01/11/2004 6:23:14 AM PST by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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Comment #182 Removed by Moderator

Comment #183 Removed by Moderator

Comment #184 Removed by Moderator

To: Happy2BMe
"RightWingNews" vs "LeftWingNews"

It would be fair to say that neither would present an ojective view!

185 posted on 01/11/2004 6:40:49 AM PST by verity
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Comment #186 Removed by Moderator

To: TomInNJ
How interesting!

By creating a temporary worker channel that requires self-identification and qualification, this will somehow be worse than no system at all!

Freepers, you are too much!
187 posted on 01/11/2004 7:11:32 AM PST by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: TomInNJ
I suspect you are not, but if you were a Liberal plant you couldn't do a better job!
188 posted on 01/11/2004 7:12:47 AM PST by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: TomInNJ
Silly me.

I thought the current situation was untenable.

I thought that round-up and deportation wasn't an option.

Maybe you know different?

What political naivety you have.
189 posted on 01/11/2004 7:14:15 AM PST by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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Comment #190 Removed by Moderator

To: TomInNJ
"There is no other word for this but amnesty-even though Mr. Bush brazenly said in his next sentence, "I oppose amnesty." Either he doesn't understand his own plan or he just plain lied."

Polititians don't lie - but for votes, they have been known to alter the truth.

Jobs Americans Won't Do: Voodoo Economics from the White House.

191 posted on 01/11/2004 7:34:37 AM PST by Happy2BMe
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To: TomInNJ
Apparetly, we are capable of moving entire army divisions, tanks, buildings, munitions, and all else thousands of miles away but we are not capable of defending our own border against (usually) unarmed groups of people nor are we capable or rounding them up and taking them home, or at least enough of them so that the rest think twice before coming.
192 posted on 01/11/2004 7:36:43 AM PST by riri
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Comment #193 Removed by Moderator

To: org.whodat
PROBABLY MORE THAN THAT IF EACH newwwww citizen has two kids, and they bring over their mother and father and aunts and uncles ,and oh by the way two kids is a joke morelike five geez are we there yet.
194 posted on 01/11/2004 7:53:07 AM PST by douglas1 (i)
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To: Caipirabob; Ed_in_NJ; Archangelsk; KantianBurke; Itzlzha
Kool Aid PING

Catching up on old work, just reviewed the original speech.

That was probably his best shot, way above yesterday's Weekly Radio Address. I give it a 4 1/2 Kool Aids.

If the Congresscritters can be forced to act Right, Jorge could held on the defensive from here on out. I hope that's not just wishful thinking.

If you want on or off the Kool Aid PING list please Freepmail-Thanks, p

195 posted on 01/11/2004 7:53:46 AM PST by putupon (Bad names and dirty words per CFR, Socialized Medications, and Amnesty for Illegals.)
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To: TomInNJ
Bush understands what he said, he's a Harvard man, so that means he lied.

This government guesstament of how many illegals are here is just that, a very low ball guess. I have heard the figgure of 20 million illegals and that is closer to the truth.

Here in the DFW area there are well over 2 million illegals.
At the grocery and the mall I am the minoirity. I look at the faces of my fellow countrymen when we are all trapped in line behind an illegal messing up the system somehow, and I see sullen anger.
196 posted on 01/11/2004 7:53:49 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: MissAmericanPie
At the grocery and the mall I am the minoirity. I look at the faces of my fellow countrymen when we are all trapped in line behind an illegal messing up the system somehow, and I see sullen anger

Same here in Phoenix. Funny thing is, it wasn't so just six years ago when I came here. Things have changed.

I live in a new housing master planned type community. Every single worker is Mexican. Every landscaper, roofer, tile layer, dry waller, most painters, etc.

I used to get up at 6 am to go running I had to stop for the months it is dark at that time because it is just too dangerous.

197 posted on 01/11/2004 7:59:57 AM PST by riri
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To: TomInNJ
A new temporary worker class that requires self-identification and qualification, to replace a wide-open border with illegal immigrants.

Hmmm...which do I prefer?

Choices, choices...
198 posted on 01/11/2004 8:20:41 AM PST by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: riri
Same here every worker has been replaced by illegals. I had something so weird happen, I have no idea what the problem was. I was going to pick up my son at school, to get there I would take a short cut down a two lane road, and as I passed a car I noticed it stopped and began to make a U-turn.

I gave it no notice and pulled up into the horse shoe drive of the school and pulled between two cars, a mom in front of me a couple of grand parents behind me. The car that had made the U-turn was suddenly just there. Their sideview mirror almost touching mine. The two illegals in the front seat were staring eye to eye at me with some strange expressionless stare. A guilty dirty dog stare like a dog that knows he's not suppose to be in the chicken house but is going to have a meal anyway.

There were three illegals in the back seat and the one in the middle was talking his heart out, earnestly and in stress talking the two in the front seat out of doing what ever it was they were about to do. I didn't take my eyes off of them nor they me, as the one in the middle rear kept pleading.

I had read that in some illegal gangs the initiation to be a member required killing a white woman and a few women here and there had been killed. So I suspected that this is what was going on.

I slipped my 9mm out of my purse and took the safety off, laying my plans. When the passenger widow comes down take out the shotgun rider then the driver, double tap, leaves 5 bullets for the three in the back.

I don't know what the guy in the back was saying but he deserves credit for preventing a very bad scene, because finally they reluctently drove off. The grandparent in the car behind me came up to my window, he said, "My dear I am too old to help you but I will call the police and I have their liscense number if they come back". I thanked him and slipped the safety back on.
199 posted on 01/11/2004 8:21:56 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: MissAmericanPie
I had read that in some illegal gangs the initiation to be a member required killing a white woman and a few women here and there had been killed. So I suspected that this is what was going on

Lord. It is worse than I thought. I need to start packing.

Ofcourse, I don't believe a word you said because these people are here only to work in the jobs the Americans won't.

200 posted on 01/11/2004 8:30:52 AM PST by riri
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