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Black Confederates
phxnews ^ | January 8, 2004 | Charles Goodson

Posted on 01/08/2004 6:40:27 PM PST by stainlessbanner

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To: Main Street
That's awesome! The Soldier/Sailor website is extremely good. I've found all my relations on it without any trouble other than spelling their first names a couple of different ways.

If you want further information, the U.S. Archives branches in various cities have copies of the microfilms of the original muster rolls and service records, including hospital records and pension applications. They are very friendly and happy to help you look folks up.

141 posted on 01/09/2004 9:16:59 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . sed, ut scis, quis homines huiusmodi intellegere potest?. . .)
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To: Main Street; dwd1
"And no one, given the choice, would like to be treated like a horse...."- dwd1

< joking > I would like to be treated like my horse, she is a pampered pet. < /joking > My husband says that he would like to come back as one of my cats or my dog. When he was courting me, my father had a Siamese cat that was his special pet. She had her own chair at the table and ate "people food". My DH (at the time a starving college student trying to cook stuff on an illegal hot plate in his dorm room) came over for dinner and my dad was grilling steaks outside - the cat had her own kitchen stool by the side of the grill, every so often she would reach out her paw and tap my dad on the arm, he would slice a little corner off one of the steaks and feed it to her. My DH watched this for awhile, then said, "Sir, that G.D. cat eats better than I do!"

142 posted on 01/09/2004 9:23:13 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . sed, ut scis, quis homines huiusmodi intellegere potest?. . .)
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To: U S Army EOD
I think one problem with history as traditionally written is that historians for the last 50 years stopped looking to the "boots on the ground" - original source documents such as correspondence and public records - and began thinking in terms of ideology and "trends". The idea of individuals affecting history became passe', and economic and social "forces" supposedly drove history.

I disagree completely with that view. Individuals make history, not some impersonal force be it Marxist imperative or manifest destiny. The best way to figure out what's going on is to study the everyday records of ordinary people. It's like putting together a jigsaw puzzle - the largest and most interesting jigsaw puzzle in the world.

143 posted on 01/09/2004 9:33:13 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . sed, ut scis, quis homines huiusmodi intellegere potest?. . .)
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To: U S Army EOD
Speaking of Lincolnton, my Alabama ggg grandfather was originally from Wilkes County, right next door.

Has your family been there long?

144 posted on 01/09/2004 9:35:06 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . sed, ut scis, quis homines huiusmodi intellegere potest?. . .)
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To: AnAmericanMother
On my mothers side, the Bunch's my grandfather and the Lidsey's my grandmother are all from Wilkes county. My grandmother died about eight years ago at the age of 103 and her father fought in the Civil War but we don't know much about him. The Bunch side is where the Creek Indian blood came from in my family. We have pretty good records on my great, great grandfather Bunch and his family. I think he was in the 40th Georgia who were in a lot of the big battles. I have his mustering out/parol papers. All of them were from Wilkes County.

Lincoln County was devided from Wilkes County and named Lincoln in honor of Benjamin Lincoln. Benjamin Lincoln and Eligah Clarke were involved in a lot of the local fighting in this area during the Revolutionary War. He was also the one who received Cornwallis's sword and the Battle of Yorktown.

What is your ggg grandfather's name, I might be able to tell you a little bit about the remaining family.

My last name is York and that family came from Mountain City or Clayton, Georgia up in the mountains.
145 posted on 01/09/2004 9:44:48 PM PST by U S Army EOD (When the EOD technician screws up, he is always the first to notice.)
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To: dwd1
Here is a good question... If the Southern States had simply stated, "Slavery is abolished!" and accepted the tenets of what later became the 13th and 14th Amendments, would the Civil War have still occurred..

Well I have two questions back in response to your question.

1) The original 13th Amendment slated for ratification and ratified by Illinois (seems there was a certain man that came from that state that had just been elected President too) in 1861 stated

ARTICLE THIRTEEN, No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State

If this Amendment would have finished passage would it have staved off war?

2) Would the northern states have rescinded their existing Black Codes that, again, existed before the War? Illinois was known to have one of the most stringent and Oregon even banned the settlement by blacks in their 1859 Constitution?

Considering the northern states didn't even accept the precepts of the latter day 13th and 14th Amendments before the War, why should you expect the Southern states to do so?

146 posted on 01/09/2004 9:48:40 PM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: billbears
I think the war would have still been fought, the two areas were just to different to exist side by side without something happening.

However had the South secceded without a war, the Southern States would have probably been fighting among themselves within ten years or less.

That is just an opinon.
147 posted on 01/09/2004 9:53:13 PM PST by U S Army EOD (When the EOD technician screws up, he is always the first to notice.)
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To: AnAmericanMother
148 posted on 01/09/2004 10:16:26 PM PST by dwd1 (M. h. D. (Master of Hate and Discontent))
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To: billbears
Good point...
149 posted on 01/09/2004 10:18:12 PM PST by dwd1 (M. h. D. (Master of Hate and Discontent))
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To: dwd1
Good night, good discussion.
150 posted on 01/09/2004 10:21:28 PM PST by U S Army EOD (When the EOD technician screws up, he is always the first to notice.)
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To: U S Army EOD
151 posted on 01/09/2004 11:07:06 PM PST by dwd1 (M. h. D. (Master of Hate and Discontent))
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To: Main Street
Not sure about wanting to live that way unless I were in "upper management" but I would have to say that the times were different.... At this same time, women were not encouraged to have anathesia during childbirth until Queen Victoria did so(nine kids, I think) so we have to be fair and look at things in the context of the times... Someone else stated quite accurately that our modern system of charging interest on money would be considered reprehensible from the point of view of some from other times...
152 posted on 01/09/2004 11:12:20 PM PST by dwd1 (M. h. D. (Master of Hate and Discontent))
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To: dwd1
153 posted on 01/09/2004 11:13:03 PM PST by dwd1 (M. h. D. (Master of Hate and Discontent))
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To: billbears
With Great Britain, France, Portugal, Spain, and the United States all having outlawed the Slave Trade by 1820, military efforts were begun by all these nations to enforce the ban

Well, England outlawed slavery in 1833.

"The common law of England did not recognize anyone as a slave (although in Scotland, which does not have the common law, bondage still existed until the late eighteenth century, when it was abolished by legislation). Slavery, however, existed in a number of British colonies, principally in the West Indies.

The Slavery Abolition Bill 1833 was passed by the House of Commons and by the House of Lords.

It received the Royal Assent (which means it became law) on 29 August 1833 and came into force on 1 August 1834. On that date slavery was abolished throughout the vast British Empire.

The Act automatically applied as new possessions (principally in Africa) subsequently became part of the British Empire.

Section 64 excluded Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) and the territories then under the control of The Honourable East India Company, namely, British India and St Helena, but the section was subsequently repealed. The Honourable East India Company, in theory, administered large parts of India as an agent for the Mogul emperor in Delhi."

See this link:


154 posted on 01/10/2004 4:16:34 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: billbears
Slavers in the 19th century often found protection for the illicit trade by sailing their vessels under the American flag.

Be that as it may, they couldn't legally land in this country after 1808. Most ships used in the slave trade were flagged in Britain.

Found this, written by Charles Dickens:

"Public opinion! hear the public opinion of the free South, as expressed by its own members in the House of Representatives at Washington. `I have a great respect for the chair,` quoth North Carolina, `I have a great respect for the chair as an officer of the house, and a great respect for him personally; nothing but that respect prevents me from rushing to the table and tearing that petition which has just been presented for the abolition of slavery in the district of Columbia, to pieces.` - `I warn the abolitionists,` says South Carolina, `ignorant, infuriated barbarians as they are, that if chance shall throw any of them into our hands, he may expect a felon`s death.` - `Let an abolitionist come within the borders of South Carolina,` cries a third; mild Carolina`s colleague; `and if we can catch him, we will try him, and notwithstanding the interference of all the governments on earth, including the Federal government, we will HANG him.`

Public opinion has made this law. - It has declared that in Washington, in that city which takes its name from the father of American liberty, any justice of the peace may bind with fetters any negro passing down the street and thrust him into jail: no offence on the black man`s part is necessary. The justice says, `I choose to think this man a runaway:` and locks him up. Public opinion impowers the man of law when this is done, to advertise the negro in the newspapers, warning his owner to come and claim him, or he will be sold to pay the jail fees. But supposing he is a free black, and has no owner, it may naturally be presumed that he is set at liberty. No: HE IS SOLD TO RECOMPENSE HIS JAILER. This has been done again, and again, and again. He has no means of proving his freedom; has no adviser, messenger, or assistance of any sort or kind; no investigation into his case is made, or inquiry instituted. He, a free man, who may have served for years, and bought his liberty, is thrown into jail on no process, for no crime, and on no pretence of crime: and is sold to pay the jail fees. This seems incredible, even of America, but it is the law.

Public opinion is deferred to, in such cases as the following: which is headed in the newspapers:


`An interesting case is now on trial in the Supreme Court, arising out of the following facts. A gentleman residing in Maryland had allowed an aged pair of his slaves, substantial though not legal freedom for several years. While thus living, a daughter was born to them, who grew up in the same liberty, until she married a free negro, and went with him to reside in Pennsylvania. They had several children, and lived unmolested until the original owner died, when his heir attempted to regain them; but the magistrate before whom they were brought, decided that he had no jurisdiction in the case. THE OWNER SEIZED THE WOMAN AND HER CHILDREN ITS THE NIGHT, AND CARRIED THEM TO MARYLAND.`

`Cash for negroes,` `cash for negroes,` `cash for negroes,` is the heading of advertisements in great capitals down the long columns of the crowded journals. Woodcuts of a runaway negro with manacled hands, crouching beneath a bluff pursuer in top boots, who, having caught him, grasps him by the throat, agreeably diversify the pleasant text. The leading article protests against `that abominable and hellish doctrine of abolition, which is repugnant alike to every law of God and nature.` The delicate mamma, who smiles her acquiescence in this sprightly writing as she reads the paper in her cool piazza, quiets her youngest child who clings about her skirts, by promising the boy `a whip to beat the little niggers with.` - But the negroes, little and big, are protected by public opinion.

Let us try this public opinion by another test, which is important in three points of view: first, as showing how desperately timid of the public opinion slave-owners are, in their delicate descriptions of fugitive slaves in widely circulated newspapers; secondly, as showing how perfectly contented the slaves are, and how very seldom they run away; thirdly, as exhibiting their entire freedom from scar, or blemish, or any mark of cruel infliction, as their pictures are drawn, not by lying abolitionists, but by their own truthful masters.

The following are a few specimens of the advertisements in the public papers. It is only four years since the oldest among them appeared; and others of the same nature continue to be published every day, in shoals.

`Ran away, Negress Caroline. Had on a collar with one prong turned down.`

`Ran away, a black woman, Betsy. Had an iron bar on her right leg.`

`Ran away, the negro Manuel. Much marked with irons.`

`Ran away, the negress Fanny. Had on an iron band about her neck.`

`Ran away, a negro boy about twelve years old. Had round his neck a chain dog-collar with "De Lampert" engraved on it.`

`Ran away, the negro Hown. Has a ring of iron on his left foot. Also, Grise, HIS WIFE, having a ring and chain on the left leg.`

`Ran away, a negro boy named James. Said boy was ironed when he left me.`

`Committed to jail, a man who calls his name John. He has a clog of iron on his right foot which will weigh four or five pounds.`

`Detained at the police jail, the negro wench, Myra. Has several marks of LASHING, and has irons on her feet.`

`Ran away, a negro woman and two children. A few days before she went off, I burnt her with a hot iron, on the left side of her face. I tried to make the letter M.`

`Ran away, a negro man named Henry; his left eye out, some scars from a dirk on and under his left arm, and much scarred with the whip.`

`One hundred dollars reward, for a negro fellow, Pompey, 40 years old. He is branded on the left jaw.`

`Committed to jail, a negro man. Has no toes on the left foot.`

`Ran away, a negro woman named Rachel. Has lost all her toes except the large one.`

`Ran away, Sam. He was shot a short time since through the hand, and has several shots in his left arm and side.`

`Ran away, my negro man Dennis. Said negro has been shot in the left arm between the shoulder and elbow, which has paralysed the left hand.`

`Ran away, my negro man named Simon. He has been shot badly, in his back and right arm.`

`Ran away, a negro named Arthur. Has a considerable scar across his breast and each arm, made by a knife; loves to talk much of the goodness of God.`

`Twenty-five dollars reward for my man Isaac. He has a scar on his forehead, caused by a blow; and one on his back, made by a shot from a pistol.`

`Ran away, a negro girl called Mary. Has a small scar over her eye, a good many teeth missing, the letter A is branded on her cheek and forehead.`

`Ran away, negro Ben. Has a scar on his right hand; his thumb and forefinger being injured by being shot last fall. A part of the bone came out. He has also one or two large scars on his back and hips.`

`Detained at the jail, a mulatto, named Tom. Has a scar on the right cheek, and appears to have been burned with powder on the face.`

`Ran away, a negro man named Ned. Three of his fingers are drawn into the palm of his hand by a cut. Has a scar on the back of his neck, nearly half round, done by a knife.`

`Was committed to jail, a negro man. Says his name is Josiah. His back very much scarred by the whip; and branded on the thigh and hips in three or four places, thus (J M). The rim of his right ear has been bit or cut off.`

`Fifty dollars reward, for my fellow Edward. He has a scar on the corner of his mouth, two cuts on and under his arm, and the letter E on his arm.`

`Ran away, negro boy Ellie. Has a scar on one of his arms from the bite of a dog.`

`Ran away, from the plantation of James Surgette, the following negroes: Randal, has one ear cropped; Bob, has lost one eye; Kentucky Tom, has one jaw broken.`

`Ran away, Anthony. One of his ears cut off, and his left hand cut with an axe.`

`Fifty dollars reward for the negro Jim Blake. Has a piece cut out of each ear, and the middle finger of the left hand cut off to the second joint.`

`Ran away, a negro woman named Maria. Has a scar on one side of her cheek, by a cut. Some scars on her back.`

`Ran away, the Mulatto wench Mary. Has a cut on the left arm, a scar on the left shoulder, and two upper teeth missing.`

I should say, perhaps, in explanation of this latter piece of description, that among the other blessings which public opinion secures to the negroes, is the common practice of violently punching out their teeth. To make them wear iron collars by day and night, and to worry them with dogs, are practices almost too ordinary to deserve mention.

`Ran away, my man Fountain. Has holes in his ears, a scar on the right side of his forehead, has been shot in the hind part of his legs, and is marked on the back with the whip.`

`Two hundred and fifty dollars reward for my negro man Jim. He is much marked with shot in his right thigh. The shot entered on the outside, halfway between the hip and knee joints.`

`Brought to jail, John. Left ear cropt.`

`Taken up, a negro man. Is very much scarred about the face and body, and has the left ear bit off.`

`Ran away, a black girl, named Mary. Has a scar on her cheek, and the end of one of her toes cut off.`

`Ran away, my Mulatto woman, Judy. She has had her right arm broke.`

`Ran away, my negro man, Levi. His left hand has been burnt, and I think the end of his forefinger is off.`

`Ran away, a negro man, NAMED WASHINGTON. Has lost a part of his middle finger, and the end of his little finger.`

`Twenty-five dollars reward for my man John. The tip of his nose is bit off.`

`Twenty-five dollars reward for the negro slave, Sally. Walks AS THOUGH crippled in the back.`

`Ran away, Joe Dennis. Has a small notch in one of his ears.`

`Ran away, negro boy, Jack. Has a small crop out of his left ear.`

`Ran away, a negro man, named Ivory. Has a small piece cut out of the top of each ear.`

There's a lot more; see this site:

All of this is suported by what Bruce Catton wrote:

"Lincoln said at Springfield on June 18 that the condition of the Negroes in the United States had deteriorated sharply since the era of the fathers, "and their ultimate destiny has never appeared so hopeless as in the last three or four years"

And yet harshness was no real part of the temper of Americans of the South, who differed no whit from Americans of the North. The main excitant impulse was fear, and they wanted to protect the institution, not to penalize the individual. It was because the free Negro menaced the institution, because manumission undermined it, because all self-help systems for the slave corroded It, that pro- slavery men urged new legislation. Their object was not to surround slavery with an atmosphere of terror. It was to shore up an institution built on quick- sand and battered bv all the forces of world sentiment and emergent industrialism.

Ruffin was personally the kindliest of masters. The unhappy fact was that it had become impossible to safeguard slavery without brutal violence to countless individuals; either the institution had to be given up, or the brutality committed.

The legislators of Louisiana and Arkansas, of Alabama and Georgia, with humane men like Ruffin and the Eastern Shore planters of Maryland, had faced this alternative. They had chosen the institution. The Richmond Examiner stated their choice in unflinching language:

It is all an hallucination to suppose that we are ever going to get rid of slavery, or that it will ever be desirable to do so. It is a thing that we cannot do without;that is righteous, profitable, and permanent, and that belongs to Southern society as inherently, intrinsically, and durably as the white race itself. Southern men should act as if the canopy of heaven were inscribed with a covenant, in letters of fire, >that the negro is here, and here forever—is our property, and ours forever—is never to be emancipated—is to be kept hard at work and in rigid subjection all his days.

This has the ring of the Richmond publicise Fitzhugh, and would have been repudiated by many Southerners. But Jefferson Davis said, July 6, 1859, "There is not probably an intelligent mind among our own citizens who doubts either the moral or the legal right of the institution of African slavery." Senator A. G. ' Brown said September 4, 1858, that he wanted Cuban, Mexican, and Central American territory for slavery; "I would spread the blessings of slavery . . . to the uttermost ends of the earth." Such utterances treated slavery as permanent, and assumed that it must be defended at every point."

-- "The Coming Fury" by Bruce Catton


155 posted on 01/10/2004 4:29:55 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: stainlessbanner; mhking
"When you eliminate the black Confederate soldier, you've eliminated the history of the South."

Spoken by a black professor of history, and the most potentious comment in the whole article.

History is written by the victors, and will be re-written by the PC, UNTIL THESE UPPITY PeRFESSORS get it right!!

156 posted on 01/10/2004 6:28:22 AM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: U S Army EOD
GGG grandfather was Nimrod Washington Long, b. 1800. He lived in or near Washington, Wilkes County. His father was Evans Long and his mother was Lucy Apperson. His father was originally from Spotsylvania Cy VA, his grandfather was Reuben Long, a Revolutionary soldier. I think Evans is buried in Wilkes County. He married Catherine Davis, who supposedly was some sort of cousin of Jefferson Davis (but we have no proof of that!)

I know we have some Bunches on the family tree, but I think they married cousins, not in my direct line.

We drive through Clayton to go camping and kayaking! Pretty country up that way!

157 posted on 01/10/2004 7:47:54 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . sed, ut scis, quis homines huiusmodi intellegere potest?. . .)
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To: mac_truck; stainlessbanner
Some of my ancestors, about 4 generations back, fought for the Confederate States.

They didn't own any slaves. They were too poor to own sheep. In fact, vile unsubstantiated yankee propaganda has it that they were run out of North Carolina for STEALING sheep.

They weren't fighting to keep slaves, they didn't have any.

The war was in great part about slavery. But anyone who says it was ALL about slavery is a victim of liberal education, or a liar.

158 posted on 01/10/2004 8:12:27 AM PST by LibKill ("Two crossed, dead, Frenchmen emblazoned on a mound of dead Frenchmen.")
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To: AnAmericanMother
There is still a Long family that goes back a long way living here. The next time you go to Clayton, go toward Franklin, NC to Mountain City. On that road you will see a sign to the York house. It is an old hotel that used to belong to my family. It has been sold several times but is still a neat place to stay. If it is still there, the house behind it up on the mountain is my father's home and we used to own that mountain. Go in the hotel and tell them you know some of the Yorks and that you would like to see the log cabin. The log cabin is inside of the hotel with the hotel built over it.

As far as the Davis' go there is that possibility. Jefferson Davis was finally captured in Wilkes county, I think, but don't hold me to that.
159 posted on 01/10/2004 10:01:22 AM PST by U S Army EOD (When the EOD technician screws up, he is always the first to notice.)
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To: U S Army EOD
looks like one of those Yankee slave ships from Nantucket. These are the ones that brought the slaves in, not the Stars and Bars

No, thats an image of the slave deck on the Brookes , an English slaver circa 1802. It was built to hold about 450 slaves in chains, but would often sail with many more, in the conditions I described above.

The Yankees you refer to made that image widely known as part of their abolition efforts, which might be why you don't recognize it.

160 posted on 01/10/2004 10:27:35 AM PST by mac_truck (Aide toi et dieu l’aidera)
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