To: I still care
I'm against abortion too, but would you say someone's not Catholic if he supports the death penalty? Or supports the war in Iraq? Or opposes welfare? The Catholic church talks about all those things. I'm not a Catholic; I'm just saying I bet you're being selective. I'm against abortion regardless of what Catholics say about it.
I have to say I feel abortion is in a totally different catagory than something like welfare.
I am not Catholic, but I am a committed Evangelical Christian. I would not say a person is not a Christian if they support abortion, but I would wonder about their understanding of the Bible and God's word.
If that was the lone problem, that would be one thing. Nobody has perfect understanding. But usually people who say they are Christians yet support abortion have a whole host of areas where they have problems with what scripture says. If you question them, it usually comes down to they don't really believe that the bible is completely true, and sometimes they don't even believe Jesus is God.
I have met many pro-choice "Catholics" that when I start questioning them this turns out to be the case. They are just sort of "used" to being Catholic, they are not one out of any personal conviction.
Dean is a classic example. He says he is a Christian, yet with every word that comes out of his mouth he shows his complete ignorance of what Jesus taught.
To: Miggsathon; I still care
You may be operating under a very faulty impression of Catholic teaching, even if some Catholics gave you this impression. There is no Catholic teaching that says you have to support welfare. For that matter, Catholic teaching does not prohibit the state from instituting the death penalty. The Pope has said that he believes that the death penalty is no longer necessary, given modern situations. But this does not mean a Catholic who is in favor of a just death penalty is against Church teaching. And Catholic teaching on just war is extremely complex. Some Catholics have argued the war in Iraq is not a just war; others have argued that it is. Neither opinion is necessary to be following Church teaching.
Abortion however, has been recognized as wrong, even as far a pre-Christian Judaism. In Christian teaching it was already recognized as an evil by the Didache, written in 70 A.D.
posted on 01/10/2004 12:38:35 AM PST
I'm against abortion too, but would you say someone's not Catholic if he supports the death penalty? Or supports the war in Iraq? Or opposes welfare? The Catholic church talks about all those things.
For the millionth time: not equivalent.
Abortion & euthanasia: killing an innocent human being. Unquestionably great evil. Fundamental violation of natural moral law.
Death penalty: Church says govt has the right to use the death penalty, but judges life without parole better if society is still safeguarded. Gray area, judgement.
War: wars must meet just war criteria. Leaders directed to use prudential judgement. Obviously if we nuked Canada tomorrow that would be wrong, but most wars fall in gray area.
Welfare: society has a responsibility to take care of the poor. How they do that is left up to judgement. FYI, the Pope has spoken disapprovingly of "welfare state" type programs, which have demonstrably negative consequences.
posted on 01/10/2004 9:10:05 AM PST
(I pity the fool who thinks Bush's proposal is the same as amnesty!)
The Catholic Church is against abortion because it has always been against it. Although the prohibition is not in the New Testament, Christian documents as old as the books of the New Testament explicitly treat abortion as a sin. Individual Catholics have allowed early abortion because of the mistaken belief that life began with "the quickening." Some still argue a like point, holding to the dubious doctrine that the fetus does not become a human being until its brain develops sufficiently. But this does not speak to the point that America abortion law is indifferent to the actual development of the fetus and allows the abortion even of late term fetuses. So really, men like Clark and Kerry have no relgious cover at all. They are publicly opposing one of the most ancient moral teachings of the Catholic Church.
posted on 01/10/2004 10:25:46 AM PST
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