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To: Miggsathon
I'm against abortion too, but would you say someone's not Catholic if he supports the death penalty? Or supports the war in Iraq? Or opposes welfare? The Catholic church talks about all those things.

For the millionth time: not equivalent.

Abortion & euthanasia: killing an innocent human being. Unquestionably great evil. Fundamental violation of natural moral law.

Death penalty: Church says govt has the right to use the death penalty, but judges life without parole better if society is still safeguarded. Gray area, judgement.

War: wars must meet just war criteria. Leaders directed to use prudential judgement. Obviously if we nuked Canada tomorrow that would be wrong, but most wars fall in gray area.

Welfare: society has a responsibility to take care of the poor. How they do that is left up to judgement. FYI, the Pope has spoken disapprovingly of "welfare state" type programs, which have demonstrably negative consequences.

28 posted on 01/10/2004 9:10:05 AM PST by JohnnyZ (I pity the fool who thinks Bush's proposal is the same as amnesty!)
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To: JohnnyZ
Specious reasoning.

"Abortion & euthanasia: killing an innocent human being. Unquestionably great evil. Fundamental violation of natural moral law."

By and large I agree. I do think euthaniasia should be allowed if (a) it involves merely taking someone OFF artificial life support, AND (b) the person made crystal clear that he didn't want his life to be prolonged artificially if he fell into a coma or some other state in which he could no longer communicate.

"Death penalty: Church says govt has the right to use the death penalty, but judges life without parole better if society is still safeguarded. Gray area, judgement."

That's about as gray as what the definition of the word "is" is. If one can receive a life sentence without the possibility of parole, then society is almost always safeguarded; therefore, in any system where such a sentence is possible, a true Catholic would never, ever support the death penalty. If one were to do so, he would have to prove that a life sentence was not sufficient to safeguard the rest of society from the criminal. Hardly anyone ever attempts that line of reasoning.

"War: wars must meet just war criteria. Leaders directed to use prudential judgement. Obviously if we nuked Canada tomorrow that would be wrong, but most wars fall in gray area."

The Pope said explicitly that the war in Iraq was wrong. How is that a gray area in any but a Clintonian way?

"Welfare: society has a responsibility to take care of the poor. How they do that is left up to judgement. FYI, the Pope has spoken disapprovingly of "welfare state" type programs, which have demonstrably negative consequences."

Yes, the Pope has cautioned about the excesses of the welfare state, yet the Pope has also envisioned a marketplace "appropriately controlled by the forces of society and the state."

Again, I'm not Catholic. I just don't like Clintonian hypocrisy.
39 posted on 01/10/2004 11:20:00 AM PST by Miggsathon
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