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WEAPONS OF THE WORLD: Folding Knives Replace Bayonets
StrategyPage.com ^ | January 10, 2004 | Mike Perry

Posted on 01/10/2004 11:53:29 AM PST by John Jorsett

Folding combat knives are replacing bayonets for many American combat troops. U.S soldiers carried a multitude of civilian manufactured folding knives into combat during the war in Iraq. Among the favorites were the Karambit, a hook shaped folding blade with lengths varying between two to four inches, weighing 3.5 to 3.8 oz.. and with an outside edge and tapered inside edge. attached to an alloy or polymer injection molded handle with an index finger ring. Developed in Indonesia during the 12th Century as a utility knife, it is known to have killed at least one an Iraqi who seized an American soldier's weapon. The soldier's unit received training on the use of the Karambit as a personal defense tool, and it paid off as the peculiar shaped knife can easily inflict a lethal wound. These knives are fairly expensive, costing $240 and up.

Other folding knives are more conventional in shape. Many Marines favored Strider knives, designed and manufactured by retired combat veterans. The Strider knives were noted for their durability and every member of the new Marine commando unit (Special Operations unit Detachment One) received a specially designed Strider knife called the SMF.

Troops are buying the folding knives to replace the M9 bayonet, which is also being replaced by multi-purpose tools for many everyday tasks. Companies like Leatherman Tool Group offer the knife-sized metal implements in a variety of models. These combat "Swiss Army Knife" items are only four inches long when closed and 6.25 inches long when opened. They are a lot cheaper than the folding knives ($50-60), but won't help you much in a fight.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; bayonets; equipment; gear; knives; miltech; weapons
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To: 300winmag
LOL, and you can use them to cut open your C-rats cases
41 posted on 01/10/2004 7:37:32 PM PST by ASOC (National policy is really set by the grunt on point - all else is just a request.....)
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To: John Jorsett
A good sharp folding knife is something that everyone should have.
42 posted on 01/10/2004 7:40:59 PM PST by LibKill ("Two crossed, dead, Frenchmen emblazoned on a mound of dead Frenchmen.")
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To: archy; AAABEST; Travis McGee
Took me better part of my 26 year career to develop the perfect combination of edged tewls..........

Randall 14
Leatherman with the Cap Crimpers
Victorinox Champion Swiss Army Knife (discontinued)

Also carried a modified M7 Bayonet that had the butt and guard removed, the original grips replaced and a 10 speed bicycle inner tube section over that. A custom Kydex and leather lined sheath made that a perfect probe/sticker I wasn't afraid to lose, break or leave as a personal gift if need be. We made a few dozen of em and kept them in our team gear boxes. The sheaths had the same hole pattern as the randall 14 sheath that allowed jump security with the 550 cord and we added a rubber O-Ring retainer for quick and easy day to day retainer.

Blown up, broke and lost every kind of knife known to man. We even worked with old Bob Terzoula who made us custom blades just for our team. I still have a couple of his folders and early fixed blades.

When ya get right down to the nut cuttin though the Randall 14, a Leatherman, the Victoriniox Champion (NOT the big ass Champ) and a the M7 Bayonet modified made a great combination.

And as to additional tools I carried up till my last day of active duty one of the old style E-tools that had the pick and shovel and the wood handle. The edge of that E-tool one could shave with if needed and many a steak , fish or slab of chicken was grilled on that E-tool "fry pan". E-tool over tomahawk IMO...........

Stay Safe .......

43 posted on 01/10/2004 7:45:08 PM PST by Squantos (Support Mental Health !........or........ I'LL KILL YOU !!!!)
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To: John Jorsett
Tanto points, please:

Emerson CQC-7B

44 posted on 01/10/2004 7:48:17 PM PST by The KG9 Kid (Semper Fi)
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To: archy

Stay Safe !

45 posted on 01/10/2004 7:48:56 PM PST by Squantos (Support Mental Health !........or........ I'LL KILL YOU !!!!)
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To: Squantos
I have an M-8 bayonet, looking at it right now. Except there's only one problem, I have not idea what it's for!!! LOL.

I could tell by looking at it, that it's not going to fit on my AR. What is this thing anyway?

46 posted on 01/10/2004 7:52:59 PM PST by AAABEST
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To: AAABEST
I think ya have an M8 Scabbard for the M7 Bayonet and it'll fit yer AR just fine unless ya have a post ban version...........

I'm gonna ping ya to a hero thread.....Stay Safe !

47 posted on 01/10/2004 8:03:28 PM PST by Squantos (Support Mental Health !........or........ I'LL KILL YOU !!!!)
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To: AAABEST
BTW many different bayonets fit the M8 sheath so I will withdraw the "should be M7 in it" comment.......could be any dang thing from an M3 knife from the old M1 Carbine to whatever.

Stay Safe !

48 posted on 01/10/2004 8:07:53 PM PST by Squantos (Support Mental Health !........or........ I'LL KILL YOU !!!!)
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To: Squantos
Took me better part of my 26 year career to develop the perfect combination of edged tewls..........

Every GI (heck, every civilian) needs one or two edged tools on them at all times. The "best" one varies for each person, but there's a common subset of tools that most can use. Once you start depending on those tools, you wonder how your got along without them.

That's why, being the paranoid type, I always buy a spare of a tool I'm particularly fond of. It might not be made in the future, and if it's lost, I have the spare back home in the gun vault, at least. It's very reassuring to always have that spot in your pocket occupied with your favorite edged tool.

The CRKT Samson 5700 that the Hobbit Hole sends out to the troops has been discontinued from production, but one online dealer still has a good supply, even though it's not listed in the web site any more. But I have the stock number, and still order them a dozen at a time. There is also the CRKT 5710, identical except for a half-serrated blade. It would probably make a better knife for a troop, but Army mailing regs forbid mailing serrated blades.

One of the other guys at work is a medic in the Air Force Reserve. He's getting called up, so he got one of our HHD knives. He carries a Gerber pocket tool in black. It's a standard NSN item, but fortunately, is strictly a commercial item, and does not have any government markings. If it had military markings, I would have tried to bargain away my soul to get it off him.

49 posted on 01/10/2004 8:23:46 PM PST by 300winmag (FR's Hobbit Hole supports America's troops)
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To: AAABEST
It's a 20 round mag
50 posted on 01/10/2004 8:30:52 PM PST by Monty22
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To: Squantos; archy
You know, I've got a modified M-7 too! I ground off the ring and most of the guard, leaving only a 1/4" guard protrusion. I also took off the metal latch thing on the butt and tossed it, and rounded what was left, like a sykes/fairbairn. The sheath is elkhide, rough suede out.

Sheath: Just wrap the blade in a few layers of plastic, fold over the leather, clamp and epoxy it. Trim when cured, that's it. The plastic is so the epoxy will not stick to the steel, and it will fit perfectly when the plastic is unwrapped. The sheath only goes up to the guard, covering only the blade. There is no belt loop.

The suede-out sheath friction sticks under your waist inside your pants anywhere you want it, front, sides or SOB. You can easily move it around for driving, walking etc since there is no belt attachment. This sucker conceals like you wouldn't believe. (I live in "gun-free" Cali, remember.)

For $15 you have a concealable "dirk" with a 7" blade. I also sharpened the beveled back side of the blade. If I lose it or have to dump it, I'm out $15 and can make another.

51 posted on 01/10/2004 8:31:01 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: John Jorsett
I know small knives can be deadly but I have always liked the larger ones.

When I was a kid, the local library had a huge collection of armor from Scotland. The former ambassador to Scotland from the U.S. (yes they really did have an ambassdor to Scotland) was from there and had collected them.

I was always impressed with just how large those swords were. I mean they were so big that I don't see how they handled them.

52 posted on 01/10/2004 8:33:02 PM PST by yarddog
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To: Squantos
My heavy duty working blade is a Buck "Nighthawk" with a 7" blade. Black oxidized finish over stainless steel, terrific grip, best ergonomics ever IMHO. Thumb rest top vastly increases stabbing and cutting pressure. Takes a razor edge that is brutally sharp. You can cut wood, gut a deer or fillet a fish with this blade.

It came with a black cordura sheath I didn't like, so I made an epoxy/fiberglass one. Again, just wrap the knife in plastic, then wrap it in fiberglass cloth, and saturate it with epoxy. I made a belt loop out of the same one-piece fiberglass construction since it's a worn outside working blade.

Mine is all black. The part that's shown in green here is a softer grippy rubber.


53 posted on 01/10/2004 8:46:56 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
Great minds...........:o)

The top of the bayonet lug latch that remains .....I left with sharp corners to act as a skull crusher/glass breaker and to use as a drag rake across my targets exposed hide.

The kewl part about using such is as 300 win mag states ....if ya lose it yer out a few duckets in peace time. Long enough to get from the joint of the neck /sholder to reach a vital yet the agressive grip pattern keeps the slick oil like dampness leaking from some critters a moot point .

Escrima ?

54 posted on 01/10/2004 9:13:51 PM PST by Squantos (Support Mental Health !........or........ I'LL KILL YOU !!!!)
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To: Squantos
Amazing how GMTA. I just wanted the smooth roung top to enhance carry and concealability. And the loud bulky slippery plastic sheath had to go. Suede out leather is much better, for inside pants concealed carry.
55 posted on 01/10/2004 9:18:58 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
Their is a riggers coating used by one sheath maker that is like the rubber liquid tool grip gunk that comes in a can. I can't remember the web site but I'll find and post. My civilian kydex IWB sheath has this feature with the rubber O-ring found on most commercial dive knives. The same hole pattern is there for the 550 cord security that I so favored for my randall 14 when not in work mode.

I always prefered a HK P9 in 45ACP that I got from one of your troops that had an Ops Inc can made for it. I felt it was better than any knife in a knife fight .....luckly never had the need to find out about the knife fighting with the P9.

Stay safe !

56 posted on 01/10/2004 9:21:54 PM PST by Squantos (Support Mental Health !........or........ I'LL KILL YOU !!!!)
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To: Travis McGee
I liked the bigger grip so I covered the existing grip panels with a section of 10 speed bicycle inner tube material...... roughed up with a little sandpaper it was easy to conceal and gave good purchase.

Stay Safe

57 posted on 01/10/2004 9:26:21 PM PST by Squantos (Support Mental Health !........or........ I'LL KILL YOU !!!!)
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To: Squantos
Yep, I haven't had to stick anybody yet either.
58 posted on 01/10/2004 9:28:02 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
Yep same here.........but I hope we gave so new troops ideas as to our experiences. KISS is best way to approach the sharps issue.

Stay Safe....did ya see Harpseal is posting again....... ?:O)

59 posted on 01/10/2004 9:33:12 PM PST by Squantos (Support Mental Health !........or........ I'LL KILL YOU !!!!)
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To: 300winmag
It's not a combat knife, but rather a utility knife usually worn on the body armor.

My son Steve wears his on his flak jacket

He is on his way to Mosul, if he isn't already there.

Still bitching about the awful food but he's proud of his "Hobbit Hole" knife. One other thing - As a teen ager he practically lived in the shower and now he tells me he only gets to shower once or twice a week. Gotta be hurting him bad.

60 posted on 01/10/2004 9:41:10 PM PST by Graybeard58
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