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What ever happened to "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."
CookingWithCarlo.com ^ | 01/11/2004 | Carlo3b Dad, Chef, Author

Posted on 01/11/2004 2:37:16 AM PST by carlo3b

 
IMMIGRATION INDIGNATION, holy smoke! DID YOU SEE WHAT I SAW?

What ever happened to  "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."

They came here for several centuries for the same reasons – freedom and hope -- and then a Frenchman created a statue that embodied their hopes and dreams. And it embodied America's promise as well. "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."
THE STATUE OF LIBERTY
I have been watching with a bit of sadness, and more than a little concern, the debate that has been raging over President Bush's Administration proposed guest worker program. I haven't seen anything definitive yet, but I have to admit that I have some uneasiness about what is being said, and what may be done.

First and foremost, I do not wish to trivialize the genuine fear and the authentic concern that most of the protesters of the proposal have expressed. Nor do I disagree with the legitimate anxiety over what the future may hold if this proposal is actually what is being portrayed, "a blanket amnesty for illegal aliens". That being the case there would be in fact, national as well as historical principles at stake, and we must be ever vigilant in the protection of our liberties as well as our sovereignty.

"Principles have no real force except when one is well-fed."
-Mark Twain
Immigration is now and always has been a tricky affair. The delicate balance of need and want, verses can and should. We can certainly understand someone living in desperate conditions wanting to improving their lot in life. What better place to do it than the greatest nation on earth. America is the envy of the world. We are a magnet, and a beacon.

Who wouldn't choose to be free, unless as is the case in too many places, they are incapable of understanding the reality of freedom. Who wouldn't want to have wealth, if we all agreed on what wealth really is. To someone without anything to feed themselves or their children, a neighbor possessing a sack of flour, is indeed wealthy.

To a nation of plenty, it has to be understandable that a desperate and starving parent wouldn't break down a door, or cross a sweltering desert to feed their child, or a family would risk their lives in a sealed boxcar to work for a steady meal.

I must admit, and state for the record, that as a policy, I firmly believe that all law breaking must be prevented, and law breakers should be punished.. the sooner the better.

That said, I may be a candidate for a flogging I might be at most a fugitive from justice, or at the very least a shameful hypocrite, because I have in the past, and without a moment of indecision would again, give employment to someone I suspect but cannot prove, may be an undocumented worker, ..yes, AN ILLEGAL ALIEN!

I have experience with this issue.. up close and very personal...

I AM A PRODUCT OF FORMER ILLEGAL ALIENS.. Thank God.

As a young boy, I watched as my 92 year old great Grandfather, an immigrant from the bowels of depravity in Italy, as he stood in a crowded church basement and took an oath, and recited the Pledge of Allegiance to his beloved country to finally become a citizen of the United States Of America. For him, becoming a real member of this wonderful country was the culmination of a lifetime of work, and struggle and hope, and prayers.

My great Grandfather, his aged body bent from years of hard work, managed to stand tall as he listened closely to my uncle, who whispered in his ear, everything that was said from the podium. In those days, hopeful immigrants had to study and be tested to prove they knew enough about this country, and it's founding, history and government, to be qualified to contribute to it's greatness.

He had done his homework, and he didn't want to miss a word.

It was that day, in the cold damp basement, in a soft grainy light, walls decorated with flags, and with his fine and honorable family looking on, he and a large group gathered to prove that they were worthy patriots. That day this proud man who had overcome language, illiteracy and poverty, was at last to be rewarded, he was finally a real American.

At the conclusion of the ceremony, he broke down and cried for the first and only time I ever remember in his long and distinguished life. At that moment,  I remember thinking, it must be special to be an American.

Yes, my family crossed a border from Canada into the United States in the dead of night in hopes of securing a better life for their children. They suffered the pain of fear, poverty and ridicule to take a chance. What was being said throughout the world, was true, America was and still is a nation of opportunity.

I do hear the call of fears and doubt of my fellow Americans, and I share the pain when my neighbors hurt as a nation. There is real worry about the costs and loss of jobs. There are legitimate concerns about lawlessness, and precedent of the apparent "reward the lawbreakers", at the expense of the law-abiding and innocent.

"A great deal of talent is lost to the world for want of a little courage. Every day sends to their graves obscure men whose timidity prevented them from making a first effort."
-Sydney Smith
I know we cannot be the world policemen, or pantry. We are a mighty nation built upon a foundation of hard work and sacrifice. Much of that labor was done by immigrants, many of which were here illegally not by choice but by necessity. Many, as my family, didn't do it as a thief, but as poor frightened peasants, who came without documentation because the limits on Italians were reached, and they couldn't afford to wait until the bureaucracy opened the doors again.

Upon arrival, frightened and stranded in a strange place without money, friends or family, they did the unthinkable, they prayed and began working until they were safe, solid and accepted.  They raised a family that contributed and their offspring went to war, and they became solid threads in the fabric of their chosen country. There were a few that gave my folks a boost, a chance, a lifeline until they were secure.

So now the dirty laundry, I did the same for others, but I am apparently not alone. This isn't a unique thought to bend the some rules to help those who need help when the need is the greatest.

History is replete with law breakers that did what turned out to be a blessing. There has always been a few that took the law into their own hands when it seemed that was the only way. Moses, was spared by a benevolent stranger. Thank God a man named Schindler broke the laws to save a few hundred Jews from the Nazi's and where would we be if the Underground Railroad was derailed, because it was against the law to save a slave.

"We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of human freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances - to choose one's own way."
-Victor Frankl
The overwhelming numbers of our newest immigrants aren't fleeing death, or slavery, and I am not Schindler, but I could see the desperation in their eyes and feel the need in their hearts. And what was I offering? A job, and friendship. A job that few Americans wanted, and friendship that has lasted decades.
"The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under whose shade you do not expect to sit."
-Nelson Henderson
There are jobs that nobody wants and few would do, unless they had no other choice, a situation which rarely arises in our country.  But they are good jobs that need to be done. By and large these jobs are hard, thankless, dirty, repetitive jobs, at odds with a normal schedule. However, they are at the limits of those that need them.

Contrary to popular belief, almost no large companies would ever pay cash to save a few dollars, or underpay wages to a poor man because he is illegal. We never paid under the table, or less than the going rate because we were a well known company, and a scandal of that pettiness, would have harmed everyone, including hundreds of employees, almost all homegrown Americans.

  "Something that has always puzzled me all my life is why, when I am in special need of help, the good deed is usually done by somebody on whom I have no claim."
-William Feather, The Business of Life
Lest you think it was all one sided, these workers were solid as a rock, and usually faithful as a clock. The work ethic in other countries is as it was in much earlier times in our history. The bottom line is they needed us, and we needed them. They stayed with me and climbed the ladder in the all American tradition, and I watched them with pride, and admiration.

For those that are really concerned about these poor people taking the bread out of your mouth, unless you are a pot scrubber, or a garlic picker, you are at little risk.. And to ease your mind, I have discovered a new money making venture, one that has a fabulous track record. This one has recent and past history has never failed to pay-off. It's remarkable in it's simplicity!

Here it is... bet against the fatalist, place all of your available milk money on the person needing something, and against the person wanting to keep it from him.. in short, betting against profits of doom.

Bet the farm, or the futon, that the screams are always louder during an election year, and the spin is more spit than polish. Just like the generations that preceded us the Italians, Irish, Germans, Haitians and Vietnamese, these folks will continue to be a blessing to our country. Take a deep breath and think about it without the shrill voices whispering apocalyptic threats.

Before you make your final decision on this matter, ask yourself a simple question. What would you do if you were in their place, but first, take a long look around your home, in you fridge and in your pantry.. and just for an added effect, and take an extra moment thinking of your children. Perhaps, you'll come away with a slightly different outlook.  Then again, maybe not.. you have that right, my once removed, illegal uncles and a lot of others died for your right to be wrong..

I am proud of our President, he knew there would be anger and once again he faced the problem head on. Dealing with this now is going to save us all in the long run, and as to the near future.. remember we are free Americans thanks to our immigrant forefathers, and some day as in the past, these new Americans may well save you and your country...

  "You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today."
-Abraham Lincoln

"One of the tests of leadership is the ability to recognize a problem before it becomes an emergency."
-Arnold Glasgow

GOD BLESS AMERICA



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: aliens; illegalimmigrants; illegalimmigration; immigration; immigrationoutrage; reconquista
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"In the spider-web of facts, many a truth is strangled."
 
                     -Paul Eldridge

1 posted on 01/11/2004 2:37:17 AM PST by carlo3b
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To: All
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2 posted on 01/11/2004 2:38:08 AM PST by Support Free Republic (Happy New Year)
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To: Jim Robinson; Bob J; christie; stanz; jellybean; Angelique; Howie; TwoStep; piasa; Exit148; ...
 
Here is your chance to GET ON or GET OFF this and other Carlo3B, all important..(Bwhahhahahh).. PING LISTS.

If you wish to remain*on it, just sit back and enjoy our wonderful exchange of ideas and you will be alerted whenever we start posting recipes and other valuable info re: various food management threads.
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To be removed** or added to the list, simply respond to this post publicly, on this thread, or Freepmail me with your preference.
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ALL ABOARD....The FUN FOOD TRAIN is leaving the FAT, BEHIND...
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3 posted on 01/11/2004 2:40:04 AM PST by carlo3b (http://www.CookingWithCarlo.com)
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To: christie
 

"When I hear somebody sigh, 'Life is hard,' I am always tempted to ask,
'Compared to what?'"
 
                     -Sydney Harris

4 posted on 01/11/2004 2:45:18 AM PST by carlo3b (http://www.CookingWithCarlo.com)
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To: carlo3b
Last I saw, the Statue of Liberty was being refurbished...apparently along with the sentiments.
5 posted on 01/11/2004 2:49:57 AM PST by highlander_UW
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To: carlo3b
Carlo, what a beautiful essay! Thank you. I cannot add much to what you said, except that I agree. May God bless you for taking the time to write such noble words.
6 posted on 01/11/2004 3:08:03 AM PST by Miss Marple
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To: carlo3b
Thank you for sharing the other side of the argument.We have a problem.We are not addressing the problem.There has to be an answer somewhere between mass roundups and blanket amnesty.Your relatives were not living off of welfare because it wasn't available.That is one of the criticisms,another is using emergency rooms and getting free medical care,crowded schools and taxes not being paid into the school coffers.I see a problem that cannot really be solved until Mexico has a decent standard of living available through jobs.

If we need these workers ,and many economists say we do for our economy to grow,we must find a way to keep track and have them pay taxes.We must look at the longstanding law that if you are born here you are a citizen,as that complicates the "after three years go home" rule.

Unless you are a native Indian,we are all descendents of immigrants or immigrants.We have to make it more orderly and keep up with who is who.Ranchers along the border have a right to have their property protected from trespassers.
7 posted on 01/11/2004 3:11:40 AM PST by MEG33 (We Got Him!)
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To: carlo3b
[ Bet the farm, or the futon, that the screams are always louder during an election year, and the spin is more spit than polish. Just like the generations that preceded us the Italians, Irish, Germans, Haitians and Vietnamese, these folks will continue to be a blessing to our country. Take a deep breath and think about it without the shrill voices whispering apocalyptic threats. ]

The persons of whom you speak were required to learn some things about the constitution and some basic civics... no so anymore... immigrants now come here with no such requirements... the only things they learn is who is "party" willing to GIVE ME SOMETHING... also they had to be healthy... I've thought about it and Yup.... apocalyps is still looming...

8 posted on 01/11/2004 3:27:36 AM PST by hosepipe
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To: carlo3b
"Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."

I believe the quote, from Emma Lazarus' poem, "The New Colossus," is:

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.

9 posted on 01/11/2004 3:31:28 AM PST by rmh47
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To: carlo3b
With all do respect, There is no Statue of Liberty in Texas, Arizona or California... The huddled masses did not cross the Atlantic, they merely crossed the Rio Grande. They don't see 'Liberty' when they arrive, they see entitlement.
10 posted on 01/11/2004 3:41:36 AM PST by lmr (When will these liberals just STFU?)
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To: carlo3b
Ah, Carlo. If only your lofty prose were all that simple.

But it isn't.
11 posted on 01/11/2004 3:43:10 AM PST by MissouriForBush
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To: MEG33
Unless you are a native Indian, we are all descendents of immigrants or immigrants.

Native Indian? I believe the politically correct term is "Native-American."

Nevermind. It doesn't matter. There are no native Indians (at least not in the western hemisphere) or Native-Americans. Would you by any chance mean Siberian-Americans? Even the peoples who used to be called "Indians" are immigrants. They just got here first.

And given all the advantages the new world provided, they should have discovered the "old" world long before the time of Columbus. They should have been on the freakin' moon by 1000 A.D.!

Lesson to all young freepers: It ain't really "your" land unless you can hold on to it.

12 posted on 01/11/2004 3:50:59 AM PST by rmh47
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To: rmh47
Sorry I used the wrong term.
13 posted on 01/11/2004 3:53:43 AM PST by MEG33 (We Got Him!)
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To: hosepipe
Actually he said this in the article:

"In those days, hopeful immigrants had to study and be tested to prove they knew enough about this country, and it's founding, history and government, to be qualified to contribute to it's greatness."

The truth is, immigrants wanting to gain citizenship are still tested on history and government. My husband was naturalized about 2 years ago, and there is a 150 question study review that covers basic civics (branches of government, number of members in House and Senate, Amendments, Qualifications for office, etc.) and history (previous Presidents, their accomplishments, etc.)

I'm sure most here at FR could pass the test, but I am also sure, that the majority of your "man on the street" average American could not.

14 posted on 01/11/2004 3:54:59 AM PST by dawn53
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To: MEG33
It's a common mistake.
15 posted on 01/11/2004 3:55:38 AM PST by rmh47
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To: carlo3b
I enjoyed your well-written, truly lyrical essay, but I've got to say a few practical things. At the policy-making level, immigration has always been about the cost of labor, not about the well-being of the immigrants. Of course the immigrants benefited, but (except for a few special situations during the Cold War) immigrant happiness has never been the reason the nation has always permited them to come. Sounds hard-hearted, but that's the deal. Immigraton has always been beneficial for both sides of the arrangement. And all of us are the result. No complaints.

But two things have changed. First, we now have loads of welfare programs, so impoverished immigrants threaten to be an immediate expense to the nation, as our ancestors never were. And second, large numbers are coming from places other than Europe, which -- in these politically correct, multi-cultural times where everyone is encouraged to keep his ancestral language and customs -- promises to change the character of our country.

Business still needs to keep labor costs under control, but for me, under the present circumstances, I'd rather outsource some jobs than import workers from places that have no common ground with the US, and who -- alas -- probably will never assimilate.

16 posted on 01/11/2004 3:57:54 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
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To: carlo3b
When are they going to get it?
IMMIGRATION and ILLEGAL aliens are TWO seperate entities.
Frankly sick of it all and all politicians!
17 posted on 01/11/2004 3:59:18 AM PST by stopem
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To: carlo3b
Your relatives should have been arrested and deported!

You should be fined for hiring illegals.

Don't ever go to Mexico and attempt to do any kind of work without a permit, which is extremely hard to get, because they will give you a prison term, deport you, and never allow you back into Mexico again!
18 posted on 01/11/2004 4:00:37 AM PST by dalereed (,)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: carlo3b
Excellent article, carlo3b.
20 posted on 01/11/2004 4:14:57 AM PST by independentmind
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To: carlo3b
I have NO problem with those who come here to be Americans.
when my ancestors came LEGALLY from Ireland and Germany they
were rightly told whatever they left behind is left behind.
They were told you are No longer Irishmen,nor Germans--but
Americans. The politics,language, and flag you left behind to come here belong to the country you left behind. English
is spoken here. There is little room for doubt that many of
the Illegals come here to better themself. But Why do the
Mexicans come only for the employment their own government
will not provide?We have NO obligaiton to provide work and
wellfare to those who do not want to be 100%Americans.
21 posted on 01/11/2004 4:15:10 AM PST by StonyBurk
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To: carlo3b
I have no problem with a legal guest worker program provided (a) they are not entitled to welfare and other government handouts, (b) they cannot bring kids with them to burden the public school system, (c) they cannot marry a U.S. citizen without a rigorous background check (at their expense) to ensure that the marriage is not a fraud, (d) any children born in the U.S. are not entitled to automatic U.S. citizenship, (e) a guest worker cannot bring either friends or family to the U.S., (f) there is a 25-year moratorium on non-English speaking immigrants while assimilation occurs, (g) there is an effective deportation system in place, and (h) immigration is based solely on what the immigrant can bring to the U.S. in terms of education, skills, and assets. As for the guest worker program, I'd require Mexico to abandon Spanish as its official language and make English a mandatory second language in its school system. I'd also require Mexico to abandon its no-extradition policy that it uses with glee to harbor fugitives from U.S. justice.
22 posted on 01/11/2004 4:17:42 AM PST by Young Rhino (http://www.artofdivorce.com)
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To: rmh47
There are no native Indians ..you are exactly right.. A "nation of immigrants" could be said of every country in the world.
23 posted on 01/11/2004 4:23:51 AM PST by Zipporah (Write inTancredo in 2004)
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To: Young Rhino
As for the guest worker program, I'd require Mexico to abandon Spanish as its official language and make English a mandatory second language in its school system. I'd also require Mexico to abandon its no-extradition policy that it uses with glee to harbor fugitives from U.S. justice.

I'm not sure about your specific proposals, but I too would like to see Mexico make some concessions to us.

24 posted on 01/11/2004 4:24:55 AM PST by independentmind
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To: Young Rhino
I agree with your conditions.. but something to also consider.. the guest worker proposal does not just apply to Mexicans.. any job is up for grabs. This is a way for large firms to circumvent the H-1 visa program.. no longer will the IT industry have to worry about outsourcing.. they will be brought to the US under this plan to replace American workers.
25 posted on 01/11/2004 4:26:54 AM PST by Zipporah (Write inTancredo in 2004)
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To: All
we did that, they came, we saved the world twice, at least, and now it's time to control immigration
26 posted on 01/11/2004 4:42:23 AM PST by The Wizard (Saddamocrats are enemies of America, treasonous everytime they speak)
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To: carlo3b
Your posit is wrong. The Mexican illegals don't yearn to be free. They aren't interested in becoming American citizens. They aren't interested in learning the English language. They are not coming from an oppressed land ruled by unelected despots. They like Cortez have come for the gold. They want become "rich" and return to Mexico.
27 posted on 01/11/2004 4:43:00 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother ("Never trust a RAT with anything" - Angelwood)
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To: carlo3b
Your assumptions are flawed.

An American who steals someone's identity goes to jail. An illegal alien who steals someone's identity and messes up their contributions/retirement plans/credit rating will now be okay?

Employers are not allowed to question the paperwork, but they are charged a fine if there is a Taxpayer ID mismatch. Real life examples - worker produces ID and Social Security number of one person, gets job, works for a year and then says that no, this is his real information and produces new name and Soc Sec number (each of which is totally different), next year does the same thing.

Employer knows, pays fine and is legally barred from questioning.

IRS knows, gets money and is legally barred from providing the information to INS.

Illegal immigrant gets the benefit of selective compliance of the law.

I read a number of articles about the new legislation being proposed and the common theme was that illegals who'd been here a long time were perplexed that they had "invested" 20 or so years and why should they give this up?

Freedom is not an entitlement to benefits or a permission to be above the law.

Why stop at identity theft? If someone is justified in his mind to break laws, why not break more? And in fact, the criminal record of illegal aliens is vastly higher than that of legal immigrants and US citizens. The welfare rolls are vastly higher for illegals and legals.

Here's the last thought: how is it that these abuses of the current system and proposals to create a guest worker program are not abusive to illegals by creating permanent underclasses in both the US and Mexico (and other countries that want their tired and poor out of their own countries)? We don't need to have to think of a job as unchanging. If employers could not hire illegals, then they would either a) sponsor legals or b) find some better means of automating some jobs.

This is another policy that sounds humane but is determined to nail all immigrants to the lowest possible income level.

Helping isn't enabling.
28 posted on 01/11/2004 5:11:23 AM PST by saveliberty (Liberal= in need of therapy, but would rather ruin lives of those less fortunate to feel good)
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother
They like Cortez have come for the gold. They want become "rich" and return to Mexico.

Wrong on the last statement friend. In truth, they want become "rich" and return the Southwestern United States to Mexico.

29 posted on 01/11/2004 5:12:46 AM PST by Vigilanteman
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To: Vigilanteman
The inscription on the Statue of Liberty is poetry, not policy (not my quote, but I can't remember who to attribute it to).

I'm not anti-immigrant (I come from immigrants, a LONG time ago). BUT - there's only so much space here. How much longer do you want your commute to take? I really like Indians and Chinese people. I love working with them and knowing them, and being buddies with them (Indian guys are especially cool), but we can't bring ALL of them here, or we'd have a disaster.

It comes down to common sense. If you've got a great party going, but the room is full, do you keep crowding people in, or does the fire marshal have the right to intervene? Sure, there will be some angry people outside, but what about those inside? Want to jeopardize everyone? That's the reality of what we're up against.

30 posted on 01/11/2004 5:25:41 AM PST by Hardastarboard
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To: dawn53
My husband was naturalized about 2 years ago, and there is a 150 question study review that covers basic civics (branches of government, number of members in House and Senate, Amendments, Qualifications for office, etc.) and history (previous Presidents, their accomplishments, etc.)

How many questions did they ask on the Right to Bear Arms?

31 posted on 01/11/2004 5:30:34 AM PST by waterstraat
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To: MEG33
You asked me once if I had any hope for the future of this nation. At the time I said I held out only the slightest splinter.

Well, after this foolish plan of your president's, I've dropped to zero.

We will become Jugoslavia. The idea of assimilation has been thrown down the well of history. Without the melting pot, immigration of legals or illegals will only Balkanize us further until nothing is left of the old America.

32 posted on 01/11/2004 5:36:45 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (The only thing standing between the rule of law and anarchy is that conservatives are good losers!)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
You and I see the world through different eyes.I am hopeful for the future because we are America.
33 posted on 01/11/2004 5:39:07 AM PST by MEG33 (We Got Him!)
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To: independentmind
I'm not sure about your specific proposals, but I too would like to see Mexico make some concessions to us.

They will. In a year or so they'll start to "privitize" the national oil industry. It would be too obvious to do it any sooner.

34 posted on 01/11/2004 5:39:42 AM PST by steve50 ("There is Tranquility in Ignorance, but Servitude is its Partner.")
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To: carlo3b
Carlo. It is not like it used to be. Nowadays, immigrants do not care to assimilate into the "American" culture. And the State accomodates them (multilingual education, voter's ballots, etc.).
35 posted on 01/11/2004 5:44:14 AM PST by sauropod (Graduate, Boortz Institute for Insensitivity Training)
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To: carlo3b
Until now, I have avoided replying to most immigration posts because most of the posters are so passionate about this issue that I am sure nothing I said would change their mind. As to the proposal the President Bush has proposed, I have not made up my mind. I do have some questions that I would like answered.


First of all, I would like to preface my remarks and questions on the fact that I refuse to call them undocumented workers. Most illegal immigrants have more documents than any citizen. They are either forged, or stolen. Very few have no documents. Changing their name does nothing to change their status.. Illegal immigrant is a humane name. They could be called, wanted criminals.

Dederal state and local officials know that revenues collected via emplooyment taxes for Illegal Immigrants (II's) is gravy, they do not file for refunds or try to collect social security. Because of this, they have turned a blind eye for the last 20+ years.

Estimates are that there are 10 million illegal workers in the US.
How many immigration officers would it take to round them up and export them?

How much would the taxpayers pay to hunt down,go through the court sytem and send them back over the border?

Will this plan be enforcable and will this plan reduce the number of illegal immigrants in the future?

Will there be enough teeth in the law to ensure that emplyers will be held accountable if they hire II's?

Will it stop future illegal immigration?

Will it put undo hardship on businesses or impact the economy?
Will it require state and local governments to enforce the law?

In closing, most of the posters that are passionate about this subject, also hate NAFTA and are against the corps that have moved their companies to other countries. I believe that these subjects are not mutually exclusive.

I thank the lord that we live in a country so free and successful that people risk their lives to get get into our great nation, rather than risking their lives to get out.




36 posted on 01/11/2004 5:44:51 AM PST by ODDITHER
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To: lmr
EXACTLY!!!!

That cute llittle inscription says "Bring me"...it does not say to smuggle them in and not let me know!

The intent of that cutesy prose was exactly that...legally make immigrants new citizens, and there is nothing at all wrong with that.

What's WRONG is allowing an illegal legal status without already established process!

I-L-L-E-G-A-L !!!!!!!!!!!! Easy enough to comprehend, Si???

Free medical, free licensing, welfare, education, etc., etc. HHHmmmmm??? For violating the law?

The average AMERICAN (yeah...legal dudes..us!) toils all the way through late July or early August before any wages actually hit the account or pocket..the first seven months of work are simply to paytaxes...think about it:

- Fed INcome tax
- state income tax
- property tax
- sales tax
- gasoline tax
- county tax
- city taxes
- franchise tax
- communications tax
- toll taxes
- mill levy taxes, etc., etc.

Yeah...I wanna legalize an illegal and pay MORE taxes to support him/her!

Hey...smoke a doobie and get caught...illegal? Yup! amnesty? NOPE!

Sameo - sameo...either we have a law or we don;t...turning a government head and giving nod to illegal acts is outrageous and will cost the tax payer!
37 posted on 01/11/2004 5:46:16 AM PST by NMFXSTC
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To: rmh47
Emma Lazarus was a communist IIRC.

The US is under no such requirement, no matter what the words on the Statue of Liberty say.

38 posted on 01/11/2004 5:47:55 AM PST by sauropod (Graduate, Boortz Institute for Insensitivity Training)
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To: carlo3b
A wonderfully-written essay. Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is that these immigrants will become an immediate drain on our entitlement programs. Two and three generations ago, your ancestors and mine produced value for the US, and took none. Until entitlement programs are no longer US policy, an open borders policy will be inappropriate.
39 posted on 01/11/2004 5:48:02 AM PST by NittanyLion (E-A-G-L-E-S...Eagles!)
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To: waterstraat
AAH..see it's OK to bear arms (that 2nd Amendment thingy sez so...and I'll shoot anyone who sez it ain't so or tries to take my gun!)
40 posted on 01/11/2004 5:50:00 AM PST by NMFXSTC
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To: carlo3b
Yes, my family crossed a border from Canada into the United States in the dead of night in hopes of securing a better life for their children.

My family applied legally, left Spain and entered through Ellis Island. Am I more of a legitimate American than you? Yes, I have the record of law to validate it. You have the record of a criminal act.

Sorry if the truth hurts.

41 posted on 01/11/2004 5:51:43 AM PST by ovrtaxt (You got an extra Communist Manifesto? I'm like totally out of toilet paper.)
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To: carlo3b
Your view of illegal immigration is highly colored by you working with them. I have read Anthony Bourdain's  "Kitchen Confidential" ,who worked with so many Hispanics in NYC restaurants. I am familiar with the food industry. I know there are tons of illegals working in the restaurant business. Many of them fine people but illegal as heck, as illegal as me stabbing someone with a knife or drunk driving. There wouldn't be so many restaurants if it were not for illegal aliens. So what? If the iron and steel industry had been allowed to hire illegal aliens we would have a lot more American steel companies alive today. 

Legal legal legal legal legal legal. 
We cannot have illegal aliens flooding our sovereign nation. Make this current crop of 12 million legal and you will provide a huge incentive for more illegal immigration, Same as happened from Ronald Reagan's' amnesty. This is not Mexico, this is the sovereign nation of the United States of America. GWBush plan dilutes my precious American citizenship. GWBush mocks it! I have no sympathy for this tide of illegal Mexicans/Central Americans flooding my country. They are greedy pigs butting into the line of orderly immigration 

How would you feel if you tried for years to bring a relative here from Italy? Someone who dearly wants to live here and contribute on a high level? He is university educated. Then Karl Rove/GWBush come along and says "Screw you Carlo! Mexicans and  Central American law breakers go to the head of the line. Screw your Italian biologist cousin!"

42 posted on 01/11/2004 5:57:10 AM PST by dennisw (“We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way.” - Toby Keith)
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To: MEG33
Not any more.
We are Republica Norte.
43 posted on 01/11/2004 6:00:37 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (The only thing standing between the rule of law and anarchy is that conservatives are good losers!)
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To: carlo3b
Legalize illegal immigration and you will get a lot more of it. 

Reward illegal immigration with "temporary guest worker programs" and you will get a lot more of it. 

Legalize 12 million illegal aliens and you will encourage those who wish to come here legally, to try their luck coming here illegally.

Legalize those who play games with visas and you will get a lot more of it. Are you aware of how many Latinos (Colombia, Ecuador and Argentina especially) come here on tourist visas and stay illegally? Hire immigration lawyers to tie up the courts and get them green cards.

44 posted on 01/11/2004 6:04:00 AM PST by dennisw (“We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way.” - Toby Keith)
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To: sauropod
"It is not like it used to be. Nowadays, immigrants do not care to assimilate into the "American" culture. And the State accomodates them (multilingual education, voter's ballots, etc.)."

Could you imagine the outcry if there were a requirement for a person who becomes a citizen and is allowed to vote to have to have a reasonable proficiency of English?
45 posted on 01/11/2004 6:04:32 AM PST by Rebelbase
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To: ODDITHER
"How much would the taxpayers pay to hunt down,go through the court sytem and send them back over the border?"

Hunt down the employers, fine them the maximum, and the project is self supporting.

46 posted on 01/11/2004 6:10:30 AM PST by dalereed (,)
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To: Rebelbase
Times change. Sentiments change. Good policy for a country in its infancy two hundred years ago may not be good policy for a country in its maturity. We cannot take everyone who wants in for whatever reason. We have to make judgements about who is yearning to breathe free and contribute. We cannot become the world's mecca for those who would take advantage of freedom and give nothing.
47 posted on 01/11/2004 6:11:46 AM PST by cajungirl (.)
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To: carlo3b
Good for you Carlo, you're right on with this statement.
48 posted on 01/11/2004 6:12:30 AM PST by ClintonBeGone
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To: ovrtaxt
My family applied legally, left Spain and entered through Ellis Island. Am I more of a legitimate American than you? Yes, I have the record of law to validate it.

My ancestors also came here legally, we have always tried to be respectful law abiding citizens. There is a difference between those criminals who dont want to follow the law, and those who do respect law and our government.

49 posted on 01/11/2004 6:16:47 AM PST by waterstraat
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To: MEG33
We need to make English the national language as a first step to hanging onto our identity as a nation. Would you believe it, here in MA, we finally outlawed bilingual education...but we had to get a republican governor to implement it, and the NEA is still fighting it tooth and nail.
50 posted on 01/11/2004 6:21:06 AM PST by hershey
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