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Milosevic was right: JIHADIST HOTBED IN THE BALKANS: THE TRUTH IS OUT
Chronicles ^ | January 10, 2004 | Srdja Trifkovic

Posted on 01/12/2004 9:07:00 AM PST by Dan2001

For years we have been warning that flawed pro-Muslim Western policies would turn the Balkans from a “protectorate of the New World Order into an Islamic threat to Western interests” (Chronicles, December 2001). This has already happened, according to a spate of media reports and statements by Western governments and top diplomats over the past few weeks.

“US to build Balkan anti-terrorism center in Bulgaria,” news agencies reported on January 6, to monitor and detect terrorist threats to the United States and Balkan countries. In addition to the CIA-staffed center, Bulgarian media reported that the FBI also plans to set up an office in Sofia working with the center. US intelligence experts are quoted as saying that al-Qaida has a training base in the Balkans and uses the region as a terror route to West

Two days earlier, on January 4, Associated Press warned that efforts to tighten security for seaborne containers won’t lessen the risk that terrorists could sneak a nuclear weapon into Europe by land through the Balkans. Tom Sanderson of the Center for Strategic and International Studies and Chris Wright of the Royal Institute of International Affairs in London were quoted as saying that smuggling routes through southeastern Europe were well established and said there was “a lot of scope” for collusion between terrorist groups and criminal gangs.

Germany’s news magazine Der Spiegel reported a month earlier (December 8, 2003) that the “monstrous” King Fahd mosque in Sarajevo—the largest in Europe, on which the desert kingdom spent a total of $20 million—is a terrorist threat. “Western security experts” are quoted as saying that Bosnia could become “a hotbed of extremists ready to use force—and would thus carry the fight of the Islamic terror syndicates against the ‘godless West’ to the southeast of Europe.” This creeping infiltration is increasingly suspect to Western observers, the magazine says: “We are extremely concerned,” it quotes a German intelligence chief, August Hanning, as saying; in some mosques preachers are already openly inciting against the West, against Israel and the godless United States. During the war Bosnia become a training camp for Islamist activists from all over the world, the magazine quotes a French expert as saying, with up to 5,000 foreign volunteers fighting with Izetbegovic’s troops. Many remained behind, “too many to be safe,” according to George Friedman, director of Stratfor. The Balkans are “of strategic importance” to Al-Qa’ida, he says; the organization can use the region for its objectives at any time.

Such concerns are now reflected in statements by some U.S. diplomats and Western governments. A remarkable example was provided by the U.S. Ambassador in Sarajevo, Clifford Bond, who declared on December 17 that there is a terrorist threat in Bosnia because of foreigners who arrived there during the war and stayed on. In the same week Greece announced that its national security interests were threatened by Al Qaida-aligned agents in Bosnia. The Cabinet of Prime Minister Costas Simitis is concerned by the threat from Bosnia to the Olympic Games in August 2004.

"UN Adds Bosnian Charity Director to Al Qaeda List,” Reuters reported ten days later (December 29). The name of Safet Durguti, an Albanian born in Kosovo, was added to the list of 300 individuals whose assets should be frozen due to suspected ties to Osama bin Laden or his al Qaeda network. Durguti—apparently the key link between Islamic fundamentalists in Kosovo and Bosnia—is the director of a charity called Vazir, based in the Bosnian city of Travnik. According to the U.S. Treasury Department Vazir was simply another name for the Al-Haramain Islamic Foundation, a Saudi charity that was placed on the U.N. list in March 2002. It was formed in May 2003 as an association for sports, culture and education but was based in the same premises as Al-Haramain.

Dozens of similar statements and articles can be quoted from different Western sources over the past month alone. In short, the problem exists, it is freely admitted that it exists by policy analysts and government officials alike, it has acquired massive proportions, and may not be easily resolved any longer. As far back as 2000 a highly classified State Department report—released in the aftermath of 9-11—warned that the Muslim-controlled portions of Bosnia had become a safe haven for Islamic terrorists who present a major threat to Europe and the United States, and who were protected by the Muslim government in Sarajevo. The findings were summarized in the words of a former State Department official: Bosnia-Herzegovina is “a staging area” for Islamic terrorists.

The threat is not limited to a few elusive extremists: the ruling establishment in Sarajevo has had a symbiotic relationship with the sources of Islamic radicalism for over a decade. “Iran, Bosnia to Exapnd Ties,” reported IRIB (Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting) on December 21 on a meeting of the Bosnian ambassador to Tehran Ibrahim Efendic and Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani. The latter said that “the Jihad (holy war) of the the Bosnian and Palestinian nations is praiseworthy and a source of honor for Muslims”:

The resistance and faith of these nations will be registered in the history of Islam, he added… Highlighting the geographical status of the Balkans, Rafsanjani said Iran attaches great importance to Bosnia and Herzegovina and expressed the hope to witness further expansion of bilateral ties between the two countries. The outgoing Bosnian ambassador lauded the humanitarian aid rendered by the Islamic Republic of Iran.

The meaning of this unjustly overlooked news item is (1) that the “Bosnian nation” is equated with its Muslim component only, all others being by implication enemy aliens; (2) that Bosnian Muslim government officials are received and treated in Teheran as allies in a jihad; (3) that Islamists see Bosnia as no less important than Palestine to their strategic design (“geographic status”); and (4) that Iran’s “humanitarian aid”—the label used during the war as a cover for illegal arms shipments is still appreciated in Sarajevo. Iran had already obtained a foothold in Bosnia, when the Clinton Administration asked for—and obtained—Teheran’s help in supplying the Muslim army with weapons (“Clinton-Approved Iranian Arms Transfers Help Turn Bosnia into Militant Islamic Base,” U.S. Senate Republican Policy Committee, January 16, 1997. This was done in violation of the arms embargo initially demanded by the U.S. and behind the back of its European allies (See “Fingerprints: Arms to Bosnia, the real story,” The New Republic, October 28, 1996). The CIA and the Departments of State and Defense were kept in the dark until after the decision was made (“U.S. Had Options to Let Bosnia Get Arms, Avoid Iran,” The Los Angeles Times, July 1, 1996). Along with the weapons, Iranian Revolutionary Guards and VEVAK intelligence agents entered Bosnia in large numbers.

The problem of collusion between American governments and Islamic radicals antedates the wars of Yugoslav succession. Its roots hark back to the support Bin Laden and other fundamentalist Muslims received from the United States following the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in December 1979. According to former CIA director Robert Gates, the U.S. intelligence services began to arm the mujahideen even before the Soviet intervention. Mistaken and shortsighted as this strategy turned out to be, it was conceivably justified by the dictates of the Cold War: one’s enemy’s enemy is one’s de facto ally, if not a trusted friend. Blowback was a risk, but one at least arguably worth taking. A quarter of a century later, it is necessary to rectify more recent mistakes of a similar nature. If the War Against Terror is to be meaningful, the Bush administration should investigate the biggest unknown scandal of the Clinton years: that throughout the 1990's, the U.S. government aided and abetted al-Qa’eda operations in the Balkans, long after he was recognized as a major security threat to the United States.

There are foreign policy strategists in Washington who have sought for decades to turn militant Islam into a tool of policy. This is not a flight of critical fancy: it is a well documented fact; it is not challenged as an accusation, but it is not unduly admitted either. In the beginning those strategists, or their predecessors, may have underestimated the danger of “blowback,” but over the years they have bound good men to bad policy, and they have reinforced failure with gold. “Blowback” is the apt metaphor: poison gas blowing back from its intended victims to choke one’s own soldiers in their trenches. The strategy of effective support for Islamic ambitions in pursuit of short-term political or military objectives has helped turn Islamic radicalism into a truly global phenomenon.

The underlying assumption was that militant Muslims could be used and eventually discarded—like Diem, Noriega, the Shah, and the Contras: CIA’s “Operation Cyclone” poured over $4 billion into setting up training centers where young fanatics were sent to learn terrorist skills. The assumption all along has been that the Islamic genie could be controlled. For the ensuing two decades, in the conflicts that inevitably define the line between Islam and its neighbors, Washington almost invariably supported the Muslims—most notably in Bosnia and Kosovo. By January 1996, Jacob Heilbrunn and Michael Lind of The New Republic approvingly wrote of the U.S. role as the leader of Muslim nations from the Persian Gulf to the Balkans, with the Ottoman lands becoming “the heart of a third American empire” (Jacob Heilbrunn and Michael Lind, “The Third American Empire,” The New York Times, January 2, 1996).

The Bosnian crisis started when Alija Izetbegovic, the Muslim leader, reneged on an agreement brokered by the European Union that provided for continued power-sharing in Sarajevo. He opted for an unilateral declaration of independence; in making this decision, he was supported by the U.S. Ambassador in Belgrade, Warren Zimmerman. He was acting in line with the Acting Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger, who made it clear that a goal was to mollify the Muslim world and to counter any perception of an anti-Muslim bias regarding American policies in Iraq (Eagleburger’s MacNeil/Lehrer PBS NewsHour interview on October 6, 1992). The subsequent portrayal in the media of the Muslims as innocent martyrs in the cause of multicultural tolerance concealed the fact that the war was primarily religious in nature. Before the first shots were fired, Alija Izetbegovic, proudly proclaimed in his “Islamic Declaration” (1974; republished 1990) that “there can be no peace or coexistence between the Islamic faith and non-Islamic societies and political institutions”: “The Islamic movement should and must start taking power as soon as it is morally and numerically strong enough not only to overthrow the existing non-Islamic power structure, but also to build a great Islamic federation spreading from Morocco to Indonesia, from tropical Africa to Central Asia.”

This is hardly an unusual viewpoint for a sincere and dedicated Islamist, and Izetbegovic should have been commended for his frankness. Nevertheless, it should have been obvious in the West that the Bosnian-Muslims did not want to establish a multiethnic liberal democratic society. The U.S. Army Foreign Military Studies Office saw the situation more clearly than the politicians: “President Izethbegovic and his cabal appear to harbor much different private intentions and goals” (“Selling the Bosnia Myth to America: Buyer Beware,” Lieutenant Colonel John E. Sray, USA, U.S. Army Foreign Military Studies Office, Fort Leavenworth, KS, October 1995). Now that Bosnia is a terrorist hotbed we know that this assessment was entirely correct.

The core of Bin Laden’s Balkan network are the veterans of El Moujahed brigade of the Bosnian-Muslim army. It was established in 1992 and included volunteers from all over the Islamic world whose passage to Bosnia was facilitated by Al-Qaeda. The unit was distinguished by its spectacular cruelty to Christians, including decapitation of prisoners to the chants of Allahu-akbar. El Moujahed was the nursery from which an international terrorist network spread to Europe and North America. After the end of the Bosnian war, many Muslim volunteers remained (“Foreign Muslims Fighting in Bosnia Considered ‘Threat’ to U.S. Troops,” The Washington Post, November 30, 1995).

The potential threat persuaded the U.S. and other Western nations to oppose the presence of foreign mujahedeen in Bosnia as part of the November 1995 Dayton peace agreements, which specifically called for the expulsion of all foreign fighters. But the Muslim-controlled Bosnian government circumvented the rule by granting Bosnian citizenship to several hundred Arab and other Islamist volunteers—eliminating their “foreign” status before the accord took effect. Many of them had taken over the former Serbian village of Bocinja Donja, near the city of Zenica in central Bosnia; elsewhere they took over properties and married local women, sometimes by force ( “Mujaheddin Remaining in Bosnia: Islamic Militants Strongarm Civilians, Defy Dayton Plan,” The Washington Post, July 8, 1996). The results followed swiftly, in the form of a dozen executed or planned attacks—from a shootout Lille in France to a terrorist cell Montreal, from the Y2K LAX conspiracy to a wave of recent bombings in Istanbul—that can be traced to the Bosnian Connection.

While an intricate Islamic terror network was maturing in Bosnia, Osama bin Laden was busy looking for fresh opportunities in the Balkans. He found it in Kosovo. European and Israeli sources warned that after Bosnia, Kosovo promised to be the second Islamic bastion. The Clinton Administration ignored the warnings (The Jerusalem Post, September 14, 1998). The KLA earned its spurs in the eyes of its Islamist partners by blowing up Christian Orthodox churches. The relationship was cemented by the zeal of some KLA veterans who joined Bin Laden’s network in Afghanistan:

Perhaps most telling about the minds of those who trained here is a document found at the [Al-Qaeda] camp. “I am interested in suicide operations,”' wrote Damir Bajrami, 24, an ethnic Albanian from Kosovo, on his entry application in April. “'I have Kosovo Liberation Army combat experience against Serb and American forces. I need no further training. I recommend (suicide) operations against (amusement) parks like Disney” (USA Today, November 26, 2001, on documents found at an Al-Qaeda training camp).

Iranian Revolutionary Guards had joined forces with Osama bin Laden to support the Albanian insurgency in Kosovo, hoping “to turn the region into their main base for Islamic armed activity in Europe” (The Sunday Times of London March 22, 1998). By the end of 1998, when Bin Laden’s terrorist network in Albania started sending units to fight the Serbs in Kosovo, the U.S. drug officials complained that the transformation of the KLA from terrorists into freedom fighters hampered their ability to stem the flow of Albanian-peddled heroin into America (The Washington Times, May 4, 1999). By that time the NATO bombing of Serbia was in full swing, however, and the mujaheddin were once again American allies: “Al-Qaeda has both trained and financially supported the KLA. Many border crossings into Kosovo by ‘foreign fighters’ also have been documented and include veterans of the militant group Islamic Jihad from Bosnia, Chechnya, and Afghanistan” (Ibid.).

All along, the Clinton Administration was positively elated about the shift in alliances and attitudes displayed by the Kosovo intervention:

Insofar as Kosovo emerged as a unique case of U.S. support for a Muslim population against an avowed Christian state and led to an alliance with a Muslim guerilla army, it is something of a watershed event. The breakthrough in Kosovo also came about at the tail end of major changes in the international and domestic politics of Muslim societies over the course of the preceding decade. Policymakers are challenged to respond to those changes in order to bring American foreign policy in line with the reality of Islam’s place in domestic, regional, and international politics. Given the importance of Islam to international affairs and the sheer number of Muslims who live in areas that affect Western and U.S. interests, rethinking America’s foreign policy on Islam may be a welcome development (Georgetown Journal of International Affairs).

Where does more than a decade of U.S. involvement leave the Balkans? “The small jihad is now finished and we have—some of us—survived the war. The Bosnian state is intact. But now we have to fight a bigger, second jihad,” says Mustafa Ceric, the Reis-ul-Ulema in Bosnia-Herzegovina—educated, incidentally, at Al-Azhar in Cairo and the University of Chicago. Clinton’s intervention in the Balkans had for its end result the strengthening of an already aggressive Islamic base in the heart of Europe that will not go away. The unspoken assumption of the architects of such policies, that generosity would be rewarded by loyalty, is mistaken: loyalty to unbelievers is not a Muslim trait; pragmatism is—and, as Yohanan Ramati has remarked, “pragmatism prescribes that when dealing with fools, one milks them for all one can get, demoralizes them until they are incapable of protecting their interests, and then deprives them of any influence they have left.”

A generation ago it was understandable, even excusable, for bone-headed CIA bosses to work up a hatred of atheism and enjoy dealing with believers. They used Muslims in just the way they used the Church of Rome in the early 1950s in their fight against the Communists. But appeasement by their feeble successors in our own time only breeds the contempt and arrogance of the radicals and fuels their ambition. Changing the self-defeating trend demands recognition that the West is in a war of religion, whether it wants that or not, and however much it hates the fact.

On the Islamic side this war is being fought with the deep and unshakeable belief that the West is on its last legs. The success of the demographic deluge is reinforced by the evidence from history that a civilization that loses the urge for biological self-perpetuation is indeed finished. Falling birthrates in Europe and the need to support European welfare entitlements with a host of “guest-workers” and immigrants seem to make it inevitable that the colonization of Europe by Islamic peoples will continue. Some leaders such as President Bush may have been hoping to domesticate Islam under the aegis of the nondenominational deism that is professed in their rhetoric. The attempt will continue to fail. So far this failure has not been admitted. Hence the enduring fantasy of an American-Islamic alliance against extremism.

Of course, it would be preferable to have a reformed Islam as our global neighbor, rather than the grim variations on the same theme that currently prevail in Iran, Pakistan, Sudan, Libya, Saudi Arabia, and elsewhere, but Islam’s ability to reform itself is undermined by the appeasement of Islamism that continues in the Balkans. Such appeasement will only enhance a downward spiral of hate and spite, rage and self-pity, poverty and oppression that may culminate sooner or later in yet another bout of alien domination.

Muslims, as Christians once did, tend to sympathize with each other in a familiar and more or less nationalist fashion. If this tendency goes unchecked it produces a lunatic account of world affairs in which Muslim societies are always victims of the West and always innocent. It is not just the extremists who believe that in Palestine, Chechnya, Bosnia, Kosovo, and Kashmir, the Muslims are entirely in the right: at present, almost every Muslim thinks so. The “politically correct” Westerners accept the Muslim judgment. But this is extremely dangerous, as the West cannot afford to concede such a large measure of moral approval to so self-conscious and agitated a force in world affairs.

Western policy in the Balkans should be reappraised because to continue encouraging the Muslim sense of pure victimhood—notably with the myth of the “genocide” in Srebrenica, and the accompanying US-financed Muslim shrine—is to feed the minds of would-be suicide bombers in Sarajevo and Pristina with a political pap that nourishes their hate. The obstacle to doing so is often the apologetics and the tradition of pro-Muslim appeasement of the Clinton decade; but that appeasement must stop. Pandering to Islam’s geopolitical designs—in the Balkans, or anywhere else—and sacrificing smaller Christian nations in the process, is counterproductive: the morsels will only whet the Islamic appetite, paving the way to a major confrontation some time in this century.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: alqaeda; alqaedabalkans; balkans; campaignfinance; jihadineurope; kla; milosevic; serbpropaganda
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1 posted on 01/12/2004 9:07:01 AM PST by Dan2001
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To: Dan2001
Good article!
2 posted on 01/12/2004 9:13:54 AM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: All
Rank Location Receipts Donors/Avg Freepers/Avg Monthlies
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Thanks for donating to Free Republic!

Move your locale up the leaderboard!

3 posted on 01/12/2004 9:15:02 AM PST by Support Free Republic (Happy New Year)
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To: Dan2001
The Euroweenies deserve everything they are about to get.
Too bad the Clown and the Troll can't be delivered to the tender mercies of the religon of peace, as well.
4 posted on 01/12/2004 9:23:46 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (The only thing standing between the rule of law and anarchy is that conservatives are good losers!)
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To: Dan2001
If the War Against Terror is to be meaningful, the Bush administration should investigate the biggest unknown scandal of the Clinton years: that throughout the 1990's, the U.S. government aided and abetted al-Qa'eda operations in the Balkans, long after he was recognized as a major security threat to the United States.

Albanian islamofascists supported by Clinton were recognized by a few as the big problem. Wes Clark's obviously faked mass graves recon photo whould have been enough to get them all in trouble. Instead it was allowed as the justification to keep feeding the islamofascists.

5 posted on 01/12/2004 9:26:35 AM PST by flamefront (To the victor go the oils. No oil or oil-money for islamofascist weapons of mass annihilation.)
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To: Destro; joan
The Bosnian crisis started when Alija Izetbegovic, the Muslim leader, reneged on an agreement brokered by the European Union that provided for continued power-sharing in Sarajevo.

I just know that Hoppy and RBJ are going to go into shrieking fits over the truths being so plainly stated in this article!

6 posted on 01/12/2004 9:54:10 AM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: flamefront
Albanian islamofascists supported by Clinton were recognized by a few as the big problem.

And the die-hard Clintonistas still reveal themselves by trying to blame it all on the Serbs. At least it helps to identify who the kneepad-wearers are.

7 posted on 01/12/2004 9:56:15 AM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: Dan2001
bttt
8 posted on 01/12/2004 10:07:26 AM PST by eureka! (The ongoing destruction of the Rat party is giving me smile wrinkles.....)
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To: Dan2001; rmlew
Milosevic was right: JIHADIST HOTBED IN THE BALKANS: THE TRUTH IS OUT

As if Milosevic had nothing to do with reigniting Islamic jihadism in the Balkans. Milosevic is just a Communist totalitarian who changed clothes at the end of the Cold War to become a Serbian Nationalist totalitarian. He restarted the ethnic infighting in Yugoslavia as a way of maintaining personal power. Should anyone be surprised that when Serbian nationalists started a war of extermination against Bosnian Muslims that the world's most extreme Muslim jihadis would be drawn to the region?

Milosevic should have been tried by a Tribunal made up of judges from the various parts of Yugoslavia not a UN tribunal. The UN through its incompetent prosecution has actually improved Milosevic's standing in popular opinion in Serbia. We're fortunate that President Bush is not going to hand Saddam Hussein over to an ICC tribunal.

9 posted on 01/12/2004 10:29:22 AM PST by Paleo Conservative (Do not remove this tag under penalty of law.)
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To: Paleo Conservative
No disagreement. Milosevic opened up the can of works. He used the Kosovo issue to become head of the Serbian communist party and then of Yugoslavia. Once the Serbs started to reassert their ETHNIC power, the minorities chose to leave. (Slovenia may have left on its own, but Croatia's Tudjman came to power based on opposing Milosevic.)
10 posted on 01/12/2004 10:53:29 AM PST by rmlew (Peaceniks and isolationists are objectively pro-Terrorist)
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To: Paleo Conservative
Should anyone be surprised that when Serbian nationalists started a war of extermination against Bosnian Muslims that the world's most extreme Muslim jihadis would be drawn to the region?

I see you've still got the cart firmly placed before the horse. As the article noted:

The Bosnian crisis started when Alija Izetbegovic, the Muslim leader, reneged on an agreement brokered by the European Union that provided for continued power-sharing in Sarajevo.
For the record, Serbs react very badly when double-crossed.
11 posted on 01/12/2004 10:56:46 AM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: FormerLib
For the record, Lib, Izetbegovic renegged on the Lisbon accords in the Summer of '92, as Cutiliero himself confirmed in a letter to The Economist.

After several rounds of talks our "principles for future constitutional arrangements for Bosnia and Hercegovina" were agreed by all three parties (Muslim, Serb and Croat) in Sarajevo on March 18th 1992) as the basis for future negotiations. These continued, maps and all, until the summer, when the Muslims reneged on the agreement. Had they not done so, the Bosnian question might have been settled earlier, with less loss of (mainly Muslim) life and land. To be fair, President Izetbegovic and his aides were encouraged to scupper that deal and to fight for a unitary Bosnian state by well-meaning outsiders who thought they knew better.

That would be Jose Cutiliero himself, writing to The Economist in 1995.

Since negotiations require good faith, and the Serbs had spent the time from April to the ending of the negotiations murdering, raping, and ethnic cleansing their way across 70% of Bosnia, and wouldn't stop until after Dayton was signed, any attempt to portray Sarajevo as the problem suffers the same fault that all the other Serb nutjob theories littering FreeRepublic are afflicted by - they're based upon lies and disinformation.

Whatever - you can sucker the odd ignorant Freeper with this trash, but you just keep an eye on what Washington does in the Balkans.

Watch and weep, Lib - you're out in the cold on this one, regardless of what administration is calling the shots in Washington.

12 posted on 01/12/2004 11:12:00 AM PST by Hoplite
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To: rmlew
There was plenty of hate and ethnic tension between Serbs and Croats in Croatia long before the war started and Milosevic was in power. The Croat diaspora in Australia, Canada, US, and other places committed a string of terrorist attacks and activity for the cause of independent Croatia in the decades before the '90s wars. They were vehemently anti-Yugoslavia. These people started coming back to Croatia and Bosnia a couple years before the war started and caused problems. This is from a story about descendents of Serbs from Montengro in Juneau, Alaska. They mention travelling back to Yugoslavia and noticing the signs of ethnic tension and hate back in 1985 Croatia:

http://www.juneauempire.com/Archive/November98/111598/stories/111598/serbs.html

In 1985, the last time the Dapceviches visited Yugoslavia, they saw a portent of the ethnic wars to come - a sign outside a Croatian restaurant that said ``No Serbs Allowed.''

``The place was beginning to fall apart,'' said Natalie Dapcevich Alton...


13 posted on 01/12/2004 11:21:59 AM PST by joan
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To: Hoplite
Watch and weep, Lib...

Sorry Hoppy, it's your turn along with your buddies, the al-Qaeda thugs in the Balkans.

14 posted on 01/12/2004 11:38:10 AM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: flamefront
Wes Clark's obviously faked mass graves recon photo whould have been enough to get them all in trouble. Instead it was allowed as the justification to keep feeding the islamofascists.

The photos were of mass graves at Izbica and Pusto Selo. Milosevic & Serb apologists screamed fake. After the war, the bodies weren't there, but the Albanians in the area said the Serbs had come back, dug them up and left. More screams of fakery--can't trust those Shqiptars anyway, right? Well, now the Serbs themselves have dug up 800 Albanian bodies inside Serbia, to include some positively identified as Izbica and Pusto Selo massacre victims.

The Serbian Interior Minister says that Milosevic in a March 1999 meeting ordered the mass graves in Kosovo to be cleaned up. The bodies of Albnaian men, women, and children are now being returned on a fairly routine basis from where they've been exhumed in Serbia back to their relatives in Kosovo--its announced every month or so on the UNMIK we-site. The murders were real, the graves were real, and the cover-up has been uncovered.

You can read a little about it here (includes some observations on how it was done by a Belgrade police captain)or check out the UNMIK press releases @ www.unmikonlin.org or read this story about the three American citizens with theri hands tied behind their backs who were murdered by Serbs and buried nearby or do a google search for the sites in Serbia where the Albanian bodies were transported and re-buried: Petrovo Selo and Batajnica.

This one's a little older, but has some observations on the impact on family memebers.

15 posted on 01/12/2004 11:41:12 AM PST by mark502inf
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To: Hoplite
...but you just keep an eye on what Washington does in the Balkans.

Still on the kneepads, hoping for Clinton's return, Hoppy? Or hoping you'll get a chance with Hillary?

16 posted on 01/12/2004 11:47:35 AM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: mark502inf
the three American citizens

Those were ethnic Albanian mercenaries who went into Serbia after the Kosovo war. The had refused NATO's call to disarm, according to a fellow named and quoted fighter. Those brothers fought with the KLA and entered Serbia during a state of emergency. They put themselves in that position. If they stayed in America they'd have been fine; if they stayed at their mother's house in Kosov, they'd have been fine. Instead they seemed to want to continue the war in southern Serbia.

17 posted on 01/12/2004 12:00:37 PM PST by joan
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To: mark502inf
How about you give the names and autopsy reports of those alleged women and children found in Serbia. If they've all been identified and autopsied.
18 posted on 01/12/2004 12:02:23 PM PST by joan
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To: FormerLib
You really belong on the playground Lib.

Your non sequitur ad hominem non-responses cry for an audience who would appreciate them.

19 posted on 01/12/2004 12:03:51 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Dan2001
Tom Sanderson of the Center for Strategic and International Studies and Chris Wright of the Royal Institute of International Affairs in London were quoted as saying that smuggling routes through southeastern Europe were well established and said there was “a lot of scope” for collusion between terrorist groups and criminal gangs.

These routes have been in place not for years, but HUNDREDS of years. It'll be a real challenge to intercept smuggling of arms through this area.

20 posted on 01/12/2004 12:03:53 PM PST by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
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To: Dan2001
If the War Against Terror is to be meaningful, the Bush administration should investigate the biggest unknown scandal of the Clinton years: that throughout the 1990's, the U.S. government aided and abetted al-Qa’eda operations in the Balkans, long after he was recognized as a major security threat to the United States.

"Paging Wesley Clark, paging Wesley Clark. Please pick up the red phone, Mr. Clark!"

21 posted on 01/12/2004 12:07:22 PM PST by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: Hoplite
Sorry they go over your head, LOL!
23 posted on 01/12/2004 12:19:47 PM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: joan
I don't doubt that there was a lot of ethnic tension prior to Milosevic. I know the history of the Balkan wars. My point is that Milosevic was the first major communist leader to light the fuze of nationalism in the powderkeg of ethnic rivalries and greivences.
24 posted on 01/12/2004 12:27:45 PM PST by rmlew (Peaceniks and isolationists are objectively pro-Terrorist)
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To: rmlew
And when exactly did he do this and where?
25 posted on 01/12/2004 12:30:08 PM PST by joan
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Anyone siding with Islam has lost sight of who the enemy is. Enemies will either bow to the truth or they must ultimately be destroyed in order that a new generation of truth seekers can replace those who harbor the lies of past generations. There is sufficient blame, guilt, responsibility, mayhem, torture, murder, and all else associated with war between sworn enemies of conflicts passed, get over it. The present is where the battle is and the protagonists have been identified, and anyone siding in any way with the Muslim/Mohammedan cause needs a checkup from the neckup.
26 posted on 01/12/2004 12:32:08 PM PST by wita (truthspeaks@freerepublic.com)
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To: joan
They put themselves in that position. If they stayed in America they'd have been fine; if they stayed at their mother's house in Kosov, they'd have been fine.

After serving a couple weeks in prison for illegal border crossing into Serbia, they were taken out of jail by Serbian officials and shot at close range while their hands were tied behind their back. They were executed in cold blood well after the war was over. That's premeditated murder, Joan. Even when the victims are just Albanians. But apparently in your world, when you add the crimes of leaving America and leaving your mother's house to illegal border crossing, then you deserve to be taken away without a trial or sentence and shot in the back of the head. Is that today's insight on Serbian justice?

27 posted on 01/12/2004 12:32:30 PM PST by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
"I'd like to see their official autopsy reports anyhow. Perhaps, after being released from jail, Serbs found them again in Serbia and decided they'd had enough.

There's plenty of reports and photographs of Serb civilians and farmers being executed the same way in Kosovo while KFOR was there in full capacity. Nothing is done to bring the ethnic Albanians to justice for what they've done to Serbs. Even the Albanian who blew up the Serb bus, which killed a 2-year-old Serb boy "escaped" from Bondsteal. No doubt he was released.

You have no moral leg to stand on since Albanians have been able to do the same thing under supervision of US, German, British, etc. troops.

28 posted on 01/12/2004 12:37:52 PM PST by joan
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To: mark502inf
>>>>>>The photos were of mass graves at Izbica and Pusto Selo. Milosevic & Serb apologists screamed fake. <<<<<<

Anyone seeng the photos and capable of using advanced features of Photoshop was screaming "fake" also. "Recon" photos were sloppily done, the shadow lengths were not matching the season and time of the day, and temperature signature was wrong.

The question is: if those were indeed mass graves, why the photos were doctored?

THE HAGUE, April 24 (AFP) - Several photos distributed by NATO and said to show possible mass graves in Kosovo could be fake, the Dutch daily Algemen Dagblad said Saturday.

The paper based its claims on analyses carried out by a map expert specializing in the study of satellite photos, who examined four pictures taken over the Kosovo villages of Pusto Selo and Izbica.

NATO showed two photos of each village. In each case, one of the photos shows the area before the alleged graves were dug and the second, taken several days later, appears to show a number of freshly dug graves. According to the expert, identified only as E. Burie, the most recent photos displayed worrying inconsistencies.

He said that in the second picture of the Pusto Selo village, there is a house which does not feature in the image taken a few days before. He said: "Either the Kosovars had time between the massacres to build a house in a few nights, or the photo has been manipulated." He said the photo of Izbica showing rows of graves had "touch-up work which could only be the result of two different pictures being superimposed."

Burie, who runs a studio in the central Dutch town of Almere specialising in work for the country's top publishers and for military maps, could not be reached for comment.

Italian General Giuseppe Marani, a NATO spokesman, said on April 18 that the alliance had photos of 43 sites in Kosovo which featured "very clear rows of individual tombs facing southeast, that is, towards Mecca."

Serbs digging individual graves pointing toward Mecca?

One needs Florida temperature IQ to believe such bold faced lie.

29 posted on 01/12/2004 12:38:41 PM PST by DTA (you ain't seen nothing yet)
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To: mark502inf; joan
It's quite clear that they were executed because of why they had illegally entered Serbia (HINT: terrorism) and not the fact that they weren't in their mother's house. We've seen these same terror groups attack Macedonia (FYROM) in the same way (some have also suggested a similar pattern in Greece but I don't know if that is true or not).
30 posted on 01/12/2004 12:47:43 PM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: wita
Anyone siding with Islam has lost sight of who the enemy is.

Hoppy knows who the enemy is but he has chosen to side with them anyway.

31 posted on 01/12/2004 12:50:03 PM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
"Paging Wesley Clark, paging Wesley Clark. Please pick up the red phone, Mr. Clark!"

WESLEY CLARK BONDS WITH MUSLIM TERRORISTS

Hashim Thaci, UCK [KLA] leader; Bernard Kouchner UN Administrator of Kosovo
Gen. Sir Mike Jackson KFOR Commander, Agim Ceku, commander of UCK [KLA]
Gen. Wesley Clarck, NATO commander, October 1999

32 posted on 01/12/2004 12:51:19 PM PST by henbane
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To: FormerLib
And notice mother's house was obviously not destroyed by war and mother was okay too. (Father and other siblings were in America.) So you can't really use the "revenge" scenario for why they refused to turn in their weapons and instead went on to southern Serbia. It was their spying/invasion tactics that they couldn't stop, even after the war was over, which brought about their demise.
33 posted on 01/12/2004 12:52:03 PM PST by joan
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To: mark502inf
Senator James Inhofe visited Kosovo in January, and twice since then, including the refugee camps. Read his shocking report from US Senate Web site:

"And I have to say this-this has not been observed by anyone so far: I interviewed some of these refugees two days ago. When I interviewed the refugees, I found some things to be tremendously interesting. They all said the same thing: In fact, they didn't have any problems until the bombing started.

I was interviewed by a Tirana TV station, I think it was Tirana [Albania]. The reporter asked me, "What are you Americans going to do about the refugees." I said what do you mean? He said you are the reason they are here. That's what caused the forced exodus.

I have to say one other thing about the refugees. The refugees, in spite of the fact it is a horrible thing what has happened to them, still when you look at them–I was shocked to find out that they are very well-off, considering they were refugees. The kids were wearing Nikes and were well-dressed. They have the food they need to eat. So they seem to be in much better shape, certainly much better shape than the refugees in other areas. " "I mention that because it gets it in a context that helps me to understand where we are today. I want to mention I am not saying this as a Republican. I am saying this as a member of the United States Senate and as the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Readiness Subcommittee with a responsibility to tell the truth about what is going on. The American people haven't been hearing the truth."

mark502inf, Your posts are nothing but wishful thinking that the truth will never come out.

34 posted on 01/12/2004 12:54:02 PM PST by DTA (you ain't seen nothing yet)
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To: henbane
>>>>>Paging Wesley Clark, paging Wesley Clark. Please pick up the red phone, Mr. Clark!"<<<<

Gen. Clark's solution for terrorism?

Salute Terrorists!

35 posted on 01/12/2004 12:59:14 PM PST by DTA (you ain't seen nothing yet)
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To: FormerLib
hoppy.... Just like general clark and clinton.
36 posted on 01/12/2004 1:14:44 PM PST by Lion in Winter
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To: DTA
What an ugly, telling picture. Can you imagine that jerk as President. Why, the very thought... sickens one.
37 posted on 01/12/2004 1:17:00 PM PST by Lion in Winter
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To: Dan2001
Milosevic was doubly unfortunate:

1) He was the leader of a small, Eastern European nation instead of a member of the EU "inner ring."

2) He was the leader of such a nation while Bill Clinton was the leader of ours.

In a hundred years, the once great powers of Western Europe may yet rue their treatment of Milosevic and the Serbs as their own nations are overrun. Serbia was always the guardian of Europe's frontier--and she was betrayed by the West just as Constantinople was in the late crusades. What a tragedy.

38 posted on 01/12/2004 1:18:53 PM PST by cicero's_son
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To: DTA
I am starting to bookmark these articles about the Balkans. Good fuel for the fight against clark should he be the demo=Rat candidate.
39 posted on 01/12/2004 1:19:15 PM PST by Lion in Winter
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To: henbane
Hashim Thaci, UCK [KLA] leader; Bernard Kouchner UN Administrator of Kosovo Gen. Sir Mike Jackson KFOR Commander, Agim Ceku, commander of UCK [KLA] Gen. Wesley Clarck, NATO commander, October 1999

Help me out here, which one is Hoppy?

40 posted on 01/12/2004 1:29:56 PM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: FormerLib
It's quite clear that they were executed because of why they had illegally entered Serbia (HINT: terrorism)

How is it clear? No charges, no trial, no record. All we know is that they were shot in the head at close range with their hands tied behind their backs and then dumped into a grave next to where the Serbs were hiding other Albanian bodies they had brought in from Kosovo. It was murder as even the Serbian authorities now say themselves. Do you have other information?

As to motive, you can make the case that it was just one more cold-blooded racist elimination of Albanian unter-menschen, but it may very well have been that the brothers observed the body disposal effort and had to be eliminated as witnesses to yet another Milosevic sponsored war crime.

41 posted on 01/12/2004 1:46:05 PM PST by mark502inf
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To: henbane
So Ceku is Muslim. Have you told his priest?
42 posted on 01/12/2004 1:49:42 PM PST by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
Akim is hardly a Christian name. His brother has a moslimb name as well.
43 posted on 01/12/2004 1:53:11 PM PST by Lion in Winter
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To: mark502inf
...you can make the case that it was just one more cold-blooded racist elimination of Albanian unter-menschen...

Who just happened to be armed and have the misfortune to enter Serbia along a route being used by terrorists.

Hey, if you want to side with the terrorists, that is your choice. Some Americans choose to mourn 911, others choose to weep for the 19 who caused it.

44 posted on 01/12/2004 1:59:10 PM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: joan
You have no moral leg to stand on since Albanians have been able to do the same thing under supervision of US, German, British, etc. troops

Joan, this isn't transactional racial group justice; i.e. its OK for a Serb to murder an Albanian because a couple weeks ago an Albanian murdered a Serb in the next town over. Or vice versa. Morality is not based on what somebody else did or failed to do. Murder is wrong. No matter who commits it. Period.

45 posted on 01/12/2004 2:00:30 PM PST by mark502inf
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To: henbane
Agim Ceku led the Croatian forces that in September, 1993 overran Serbian villages in the Medak pocket being protected by Canadian peace keepers. After a firefight, the Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry retook the villages only to find that dreadful atrocities had been committed against Serbian civilians.
Of course, some folks want to describe Ceku as a good Roman Catholic. Let's just say that I am far from convinced!
46 posted on 01/12/2004 2:07:36 PM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: DTA
Anyone seeng the photos and capable of using advanced features of Photoshop was screaming "fake" also The question is: if those were indeed mass graves, why the photos were doctored?

Fine, you can believe NATO used photo-shop to doctor up the imagery showing a mass grave at Izbice.

Now explain how the bodies of the Albanians killed at Izbice ended up in mass graves on the grounds of a Serb special police training facility outside Belgrade.

47 posted on 01/12/2004 2:09:12 PM PST by mark502inf
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To: DTA
Senator Inhofe: "I interviewed some of these refugees two days ago. When I interviewed the refugees, I found some things to be tremendously interesting. They all said the same thing: In fact, they didn't have any problems until the bombing started."

OK. However, in a significantly more rigorous study than the Senator's drive by a refugee camp for some anecdotes, the American Association for the Advancement of Science in its report Policy or Panic on killings and refugee flow in Kosovo concluded that only a small fraction of Kosovar Albanians fled Kosovo as a direct result of NATO bombing raids. It also concludes that "the mass exodus of refugees from Kosovo occurred in patterns so regular that they must have been coordinated...the most likely explanation for the migration is that Yugoslav authorities planned and implemented a centrally organized campaign to clear at least certain regions of ethnic Albanians.

48 posted on 01/12/2004 2:42:04 PM PST by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
...occurred in patterns so regular that they must have been coordinated...the most likely explanation for the migration is that Yugoslav authorities planned and implemented a centrally organized campaign...

I'm sorry, but what I know about the Communists in Yugoslavia argues against them being able to organize any campaign that displayed any sort of pattern, regularity, or coordination.

49 posted on 01/12/2004 2:46:54 PM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: Dan2001
Lindh's "murder" It's Timothy McVeigh all over again.
The difference being that this time you don't even get footage from the "author".
Of course now by every cover-up the beast adds its grotesque details. No wonder that in the words of the defense lawyer the accused claims to have heard Jesus (translated by the media as "accused heard Jesus ordering him to do it").
50 posted on 01/12/2004 2:48:52 PM PST by Truth666
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