Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Ask the Imam: It is permissible to lie when taking the oath of allegiance to the United States
Islamic Q & A on-line ^ | 4/25/03 | Mufti Ebrahim Desai

Posted on 01/12/2004 12:21:59 PM PST by Aquinasfan

To become a citizen of US one has to take an oath of allegiance. Is it ok to take the oath?

The oath of allegiance is as follows: I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God. They also ask on the citizenship form the following questions: If the law requires it, are you willing to bear arms on behalf of US? If the law requires it, are you willing to perform noncombatant service in the US Armed Forces? If the law requires it, are you willing to perform work of national importance under civilian direction? My question is can we answer yes to these questions? is there anything wrong in doing that. what should the answer be: yes or no? could you please kindly give an urgent answer.

jazakallah.

Answer 8471 2003-04-25

As Muslims, we are duty bound to follow our lives strictly according to Shari’ah. Whatever Shari’ah allows us to do, we will abide by that and whatever Shari’ah has restricted us from, we will refrain from it. Hence, we are not allowed to obey anybody if it is resulting in the disobedience of the Creator, Allah. Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, ‘There is no obedience for the creation by disobeying the Creator.’ (Mirqaat vol.7 pg.217; Imdadiyyah).

Hence, keeping this in mind if one is forced to sign the above in order to become a citizen or the only way of attaining citizenship is by acknowledging the above, then one may sign it with the intention that Shari’ah and Deen will always be his yardstick and that he will never sacrifice any of the teachings of Deen.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: aliens; catholiclist; hls; islam; jihadinamerica; oath; religionofpieces
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-104 next last
Here's another interesting Q & A:

Is their justification in Islam for "terrorism" as pratised by groups like Hamas, where women and children are sometimes killed?

Answer 8998 2003-06-26

When a particular Muslim community experiences difficulty regarding themselves, and there is no apparent solution for their problem, they should refer their matter to their Fuqahaa (jurists) and Ubbaad (pious people) and follow their guidance.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

1 posted on 01/12/2004 12:22:01 PM PST by Aquinasfan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: *Catholic_list
In matters political Islam is a system of despotism at home and aggression abroad. The Prophet commanded absolute submission to the imâm. In no case was the sword to be raised against him. The rights of non-Moslem subjects are of the vaguest and most limited kind, and a religious war is a sacred duty whenever there is a chance of success against the "Infidel". Medieval and modern Mohammedan, especially Turkish, persecutions of both Jews and Christians are perhaps the best illustration of this fanatical religious and political spirit.

Mohammed and Mohammedanism
Catholic Encyclopedia


2 posted on 01/12/2004 12:24:33 PM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
Fact: Islam is an enemy ideology opposed to the Constitution of the United States. This is obvious to any rational observer.
3 posted on 01/12/2004 12:25:33 PM PST by rageaholic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
INTREP - RELIGION OF PEACE (AND LIES)
4 posted on 01/12/2004 12:27:30 PM PST by LiteKeeper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
So the gutter muslim preacher just told him to lie to the infidel.

I hate islam .... it is disgusting in it's treatment of non-believers.

Islam Honor .... about as likely as Bill Clinton being celibate and pious.

5 posted on 01/12/2004 12:27:37 PM PST by Centurion2000 (Resolve to perform what you must; perform without fail that what you resolve.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Centurion2000
bttt
6 posted on 01/12/2004 12:31:27 PM PST by Pikamax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
Hence, we are not allowed to obey anybody if it is resulting in the disobedience of the Creator, Allah.

And disobedience of Allah will be defined by my Stalinist dictators.

7 posted on 01/12/2004 12:31:32 PM PST by SupplySider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
we are not allowed to obey anybody if it is resulting in the disobedience of the Creator, Allah.

This is essentially the same teaching found in the Bible.

Jesus said, "Pay back Caesar's things to Caesar, but God's things to God." The question here, of course, is which are which. The principle does not itself say.

The apostles told the Sanhedrin, "We must obey God as ruler rather than men." the question here is what you believe God is telling you to do.

8 posted on 01/12/2004 12:34:11 PM PST by Restorer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
Ask the Imam: It is permissible to lie when taking the oath of allegiance to the United States

Everybody knows that this is a damnable lie! Put together by the FBI the CIA and the Boy Scouts!

9 posted on 01/12/2004 12:35:23 PM PST by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
In general, a Muslim has no ethical problem with lying to a non-Muslim if the consequences are in favor of the Muslim or other Muslims.

In a U.S. court of law, the flip attitude about taking the oath of citizen will have no standing. You take it. You sign it. You are legally bound by it. You won't get a special Shari'ah court that gives a Muslim special consideration that is not given to any other citizen. That would be a violation of equal protection under the 14th amendment.

10 posted on 01/12/2004 12:35:28 PM PST by Myrddin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
Looks like most of our judges, politicans and leaders feel pretty much the same way...
They lie like cheap carpet
11 posted on 01/12/2004 12:37:20 PM PST by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
More and more people are waking up to these simple facts every day. 'Bout time.

In Islam, what matters is Islam. It is permissable, and even laudatory under certain circumstances, to lie to the infidel. If it advances the cause of Islam, lying is a mitzvah.

Because of this, we can expect to hear all sorts of conciliatory BS from the Muslim world over the next few months, as the Islamabombers come to the realization that the US is playing the game for real, at this particular point in time. Given that, the obvious strategy is to make a temporary false peace and lie low until the decadent West becomes distracted by MTV or Britney Spears' latest nuptial scandal.

It is all spelled out in the lesson of the Treaty of Hudaybiya. This is as familiar a story in the Muslim world as our fable about George Washington and the cherry tree.
12 posted on 01/12/2004 12:37:53 PM PST by gridlock (There's no such thing as idiot-proof, only idiot-resistant. The ingenuity of idiots knows no bounds)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
Well. That's a little different from "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's," isn't it? And a little different from Paul's exhortations to serve your rulers because they bear the sword for a reason, eh?

Islam is not just a (false) religion. It's a political system and a complete way of life disguised in the trappings of a religion. No other religion attempts to establish a theocracy, wherever it goes, like Islam. Judaism doesn't. Christianity doesn't. I don't think the Eastern religions do. Which puts the lie to the lefties who scream "George Bush and John Ashcroft are trying to establish a theocracy!" while giving the murderers and slavers of Islam a free pass in the name of "diversity."

}:-)4
13 posted on 01/12/2004 12:38:11 PM PST by Moose4 ("The road goes on forever, and the party never ends." --Robert Earl Keen)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
Why, but... if... IF I WERE TO BELIEVE THIS, I'd have to assume that muslims couldn't be trusted!  But islam is a religion of peace, so says Muhamed al-George W. Bush (praise be unto he).
 
 

Owl_Eagle

" WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
DIVERSITY IS STRENGTH"


14 posted on 01/12/2004 12:39:21 PM PST by South Hawthorne (Life is hard, but it's especially hard if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Restorer
I have always believed that the Christian teaching referred to the fact that material goods may be controlled by earthly leaders, but your soul belongs to God.

I believe this played out during the Roman era, during the persecutions, when Christians were often told that they could be spared if they said, "Caesar is a god." And if they refused, they would be killed in ugly ways. The Martyrs knew that their souls belonged to God and so they did not lie to the earthly authorities. They declared that Caesar was not a god, and were then killed in ugly ways.

Muslims, on the other hand, enjoy lying to the infidel, so that the infidel can later be killed in ugly ways.

15 posted on 01/12/2004 12:40:58 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (France delenda est)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy
The principle of putting allegiance to God above allegiance to earthly governments remains the same.

The application may vary dramatically, of couse.

I have no problem if God speaks to you personally, enjoining you to love your neighbor. I have a serious problem if he speaks to you personally with instructions to kill your neighbor.

The problem is not the fact of the communication, the problem is the content of the message.
16 posted on 01/12/2004 12:45:06 PM PST by Restorer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Restorer
This is essentially the same teaching found in the Bible.

Not hardly, the Bible says not to lie and the Koran says lying is ok if the situation warrants it. Situational Ethics is a foundation of Islam, but not present in the Bible.

17 posted on 01/12/2004 12:46:26 PM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
Aw, they never ask this guy the right questions. Now, what I'd like to know...

Dear Imam,

So what's the deal about shaving your pubes before you go off to murder kiddies with plastique? I can't find it anywhere in the Koran - is this one of those kinky things you guys do to while away those lonely nights in that cave in Pakistan after the evening rug-munch and a big, steaming plate of grubs? Just curious, and my boyfriend Percy is kind of curious, too - he says the size of your turban is directly related to...but what the heck does he know? Anyhow, I wouldn't recommend it, personally - nothing puts you off your detonator timing like a bad case of razor burn You Know Where.

Say howdy to Fatima for me.

yer buddy,
BilltheDrill

18 posted on 01/12/2004 12:48:50 PM PST by Billthedrill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
Good old Mufti Ebrahim Desai. He's currently issuing fatwas in South Africa. Life as an Indian Muslim must have accelerated his lying proclivities. Ebrahim.

When it comes to Islam Q & A, I prefer the Kuwati imams. They hand out advice on how a Muslim should properly go to the bathroom, brush teeth, and other such helpful advice for the hapless who aren't certain about such things.

19 posted on 01/12/2004 12:52:10 PM PST by xJones
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: American in Israel
The principle of obedience to God above obedience to man is the same principle. This particular imam applies it to mean that lying is okay if if makes your life more convenient.

Sort of the way it is wrong to commit adultery you really, really want to.

20 posted on 01/12/2004 12:52:58 PM PST by Restorer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Restorer
Question.

If islamists regard infidels as not human until they are converted, are they guilty of bestiality if they take an unbeliever into their bed?
21 posted on 01/12/2004 1:05:36 PM PST by DeepDish (I no longer capitalize french or france, only things proper or significant are capitalized.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
I wonder if Mufti Ebrahim Desai has realized that he has totally rendered worthless the oathes of any Muslim.

An oath that is given under false pretenses is not valid. Only a fool would accept it.
22 posted on 01/12/2004 1:11:29 PM PST by Ronin (Quos amor verus tenuit, tenebit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: joesnuffy
Yes they do, and they really don't care if we know it.
23 posted on 01/12/2004 1:12:04 PM PST by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: Aquinasfan
Bump.
26 posted on 01/12/2004 1:26:22 PM PST by DoctorMichael (Thats my story, and I'm sticking to it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
As Islam appears nearly entirely contrary to The Law of Moses, it seems like idolotry to me.
27 posted on 01/12/2004 1:28:23 PM PST by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: gridlock
Islam = Master Race
28 posted on 01/12/2004 1:39:45 PM PST by observer5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: rageaholic
Islam condones lying, cheating, stealing to reach its own ends.
29 posted on 01/12/2004 1:46:43 PM PST by John Frum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: DeepDish
If islamists regard infidels as not human until they are converted, are they guilty of bestiality if they take an unbeliever into their bed?

Yes but it doesn't count as adultery since it's with an animal and that's fine as long as it is not an unclean animal like a dog or hog.

31 posted on 01/12/2004 1:53:35 PM PST by NeoCaveman (McNaab is still overrated)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
History shows that Islam was put in place to hold people together - it is a made up religion with many fables woven into its fabric, many taken from the Hebrews and Christians. Muhammad was born around 570 AD - It has been suggested that Muhammad(P) mixed Biblical stories and Jewish myths of the Tower of Babel, the story of Esther and Moses into a single confused account when composing the Qur'an.
32 posted on 01/12/2004 2:07:46 PM PST by yoe (Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest............the Clark mantra)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Restorer
"...lying is okay if if makes your life more convenient...?" ...is he talking about Mrs. Clinton...?
33 posted on 01/12/2004 2:10:59 PM PST by yoe (Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest............the Clark mantra)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: dubyaismypresident
In islam it is only adultery with an unclean animal if that animal is female. male dogs and pigs are prized by allah, the pig god.
34 posted on 01/12/2004 2:11:41 PM PST by DeepDish (I no longer capitalize french or france, only things proper or significant are capitalized.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: American in Israel
re: "Situational Ethics is a foundation of Islam, but not present in the Bible."

Well, it is, sort of,,,

It is a fundamental Jewish teaching that in ANY situation, ANY of the Biblical laws can be broken in order to SAVE a life,,,

Oh, wait, I guess that is kinda different, huh?



35 posted on 01/12/2004 2:13:22 PM PST by RonHolzwarth
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Restorer
Acck!

Make that, "Sort of the way it is wrong to commit adultery UNLESS you really, really want to."
36 posted on 01/12/2004 2:20:58 PM PST by Restorer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: yoe
Actually, Mohammed and his earliest followers were bandits who uesd to rob/murder/rape/ passing caravans (all with Allah's blessing). Mohammed took 20% of the take off the top and his followers split the rest. His followers grew when it became obvious that Islam was a license to steal. Islam is what you would get if Charles Manson founded a major religion. It is a classic cult, founded by a lunatic who justified his murderous perverse behavior using "revelations" from an imaginary god. If you don't believe me, LOOK IT UP.
37 posted on 01/12/2004 2:45:04 PM PST by BadAndy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: philetus
Liberals think that oaths and affirmations are just "words" anyway. That is why divorce is especially popular among them. That is why they don't get married in the first place.
38 posted on 01/12/2004 3:02:08 PM PST by RobbyS (XPqu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: BadAndy
Most governments historically are founded on theft.
39 posted on 01/12/2004 3:03:53 PM PST by RobbyS (XPqu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: BadAndy
Makes you think of Kwanzaa, the brainchild of African-American radical activist, academic and convicted felon Ron Karenga. It has fooled a lot of people - LOL
40 posted on 01/12/2004 3:27:20 PM PST by yoe (Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest............the Clark mantra)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: yoe
Kwanza is silly but mostly harmless. Unlike Islam the supporters of Kwanza don't DEMAND that all those who refuse to celebrate it be murdered.
Islam is also unlike most religions in that there are no miracles associated with it to suggest a supernatural being. Mohammed's "revlations" were accepted at face value with nothing to support them.
41 posted on 01/12/2004 3:40:51 PM PST by BadAndy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Restorer
This is essentially the same teaching found in the Bible.

Yes, but this isn't. "Hence, keeping this in mind if one is forced to sign the above in order to become a citizen or the only way of attaining citizenship is by acknowledging the above, then one may sign it with the intention that Shari’ah and Deen will always be his yardstick."

Sharia law is Mohammedan law and is not the same thing as natural law. My understanding is that, under Sharia law, Jews and Christians are treated as dhimmini (second class citizens whose freedom of worship is severely restricted) and members of other religions are treated even worse.

42 posted on 01/12/2004 4:55:55 PM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: gridlock
the obvious strategy is to make a temporary false peace and lie low until the decadent West becomes distracted by MTV or Britney Spears' latest nuptial scandal.

Yes. Their timing was off when they pulled 9/11. They should have done it under Clinton. They also bit off more than they can chew when they attacked the US. They should have been satisfied with getting away with their violence in Nigeria, Chad, the Sudan, Ethiopia, Israel, Yugoslavia, Chechnya, India, Thailand and the Philipines.

43 posted on 01/12/2004 5:02:05 PM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: BadAndy
If you don't believe me, LOOK IT UP.

To quote my co-worker: "Don't show me, I don't want to know."

44 posted on 01/12/2004 5:06:05 PM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS
Most governments historically are founded on theft taxes.
45 posted on 01/12/2004 6:02:21 PM PST by Lessismore
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
Hence, keeping this in mind if one is forced to sign the above in order to become a citizen or the only way of attaining citizenship is by acknowledging the above, then one may sign it with the intention that Shari?ah and Deen will always be his yardstick and that he will never sacrifice any of the teachings of Deen.

I'm not sure who or what "Deen" is, but overall that sounds just about like what (former) Justice Roy Moore believes: he'll obey the Constitution and laws of the country so long as they do not interfere with his religious beliefs. In fact most religious persons would place their obedience to their religion above their obedience to the government.

46 posted on 01/12/2004 6:23:55 PM PST by Looking for Diogenes
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
Sharia law is Mohammedan law and is not the same thing as natural law. My understanding is that, under Sharia law, Jews and Christians are treated as dhimmini (second class citizens whose freedom of worship is severely restricted) and members of other religions are treated even worse.>/i>

One reason why Israel drives some of them them mad. They believe it is against the will of God that Jews should govern Muslims.

47 posted on 01/12/2004 6:24:23 PM PST by RobbyS (XPqu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Lessismore
The theu that developed in England was that taxes were voluntary donations of the citizenry to the Crown, the idea that underlay our slogan "No taxation without representations."
48 posted on 01/12/2004 6:27:10 PM PST by RobbyS (XPqu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Looking for Diogenes
In fact most religious persons would place their obedience to their religion above their obedience to the government.

See #42.

49 posted on 01/12/2004 7:14:00 PM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
Notice how our pundits and talking heads fail to bring this point up.
50 posted on 01/12/2004 7:19:23 PM PST by AmericanVictory (Should we be more like them, or they like us?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-104 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson