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Plan For Immigration Reform Dismays Many Conservatives
HUMAN EVENTS ^ | Posted Jan 12, 2004 | Joseph A. D'Agostino

Posted on 01/13/2004 7:04:52 PM PST by Federalist 78

Conservatives generally reacted with dismay to the new immigration reform plan that President Bush outlined in a White House speech January 7.

The proposal has four main planks: 1) granting three-year work visas to millions of illegal aliens now working in the country, 2) allowing employers to import an unlimited number of additional foreign workers as long as they make a "good faith" effort to hire Americans first, 3) allowing aliens working in the United States to receive credit in their nations' retirement systems or giving them tax-preferred savings accounts they can collect when they return home, and 4) increasing the number of aliens allowed to legally and permanently immigrate to the United States.

Illegal aliens who get three-year work visas would be eligible to apply for permanent status (and eventual citizenship) on the same basis as aliens back in their home country who did not break U.S. immigration laws.

"The people of eastern North Carolina who are God-fearing protectors of the Constitution believe, as I believe, that no one should be rewarded for breaking the law," Rep. Walter Jones (R.-N.C.) told HUMAN EVENTS. "You can disguise it any way you want, it's still amnesty."

"Eagle Forum will not support any member of Congress who votes for this, or for amnesty in any form," said Eagle Forum President Phyllis Schlafly, who challenged the proposal on both public policy and political grounds. "Hispanics vote overwhelmingly Democratic, and I don't understand how bringing in more of them helps the Republican Party," she said. "There are probably five billion people in the world who would like to be American workers. Are we going to take workers from Iraq and Iran?"

NumbersUSA, an immigration reform group, estimates that up to 75% of the eight-to-12 million illegal aliens in the country could be eligible for three-year work visas under Bush's plan.

"This is a self-inflicted political landmine," said K.B. Forbes, a Latino conservative who served as communications director for Steve Forbes' (no relation) 2000 presidential campaign and now runs a non-partisan Hispanic advocacy group in East Los Angeles.

"Illegal aliens don't vote," said Forbes. "The Hispanics who vote are second- and third-generation who are tired of being lumped in with the others."

"I think that for the first time, he may have come up with something that may seriously endanger his base," said Free Congress Foundation President Paul Weyrich. "This is a way that terrorists can get into the country, legally and everything," he said.

"As we speak, our borders are being inundated with people who think they might get an amnesty," said Rep. Tom Tancredo (R.-Colo.), chairman of the Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus. Tancredo predicted the plan would not pass the House and contested the President's suggestion that America's current immigration laws are the cause of the immigration crisis. "Mr. President," he said, "the executive branch has chosen not to enforce the law."

Some conservatives, however, do support the proposal. "I'm very pleased," said Rep. Jeff Flake (R.-Ariz.), who along with Sen. John McCain (R.-Ariz.) and Rep. Jim Kolbe (R.-Ariz.) introduced a guest worker bill last year. "It's close to what we introduced." "Over the past decade, we have increased funding for border enforcement by sixfold and we haven't managed to stop anyone who really wants to come," added Flake. "In the aggregate, if you look over the past decade, we've had massive immigration, both legal and illegal, and wages have risen in all sectors."

Rep. Chris Cannon (R.-Utah), who also supports the plan, said that as of now we don't know who the illegal aliens are. "This plan will bring them out of the shadows," he said. "We will have their fingerprints and photos." However, he said, more details on "controlling the border" need to be worked out before the plan can advance. Cannon also cited the retirement provisions in the plan as giving aliens "incentives to go home. They will be able to transfer their retirement accounts to Mexico." Conservatives, he said, must look at the alternatives: "Are we ever really going to send all these illegal residents home? If not, we should get them under the law and weed out the bad ones."

Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R.-Calif.) praised the President for his concern for illegal immigrants but said, "I think his proposals will not serve the best interests of the American people." Rohrabacher argued that the proposal frames the labor issue incorrectly. "I don't think there are any jobs that Americans won't do," he said, "there are jobs that don't pay enough for Americans to do now. The proposal the President is making would tend to keep down wages." He also noted that unforeseen expenses could result from importing more foreign workers. "Are these jobs all going to have health care associated with them?" he asked. "If not, are we going to pay for health care for all these people? . . . The people who vote Republican are not going to like this."

"It's nauseating, to be honest with you," said conservative commentator and political consultant Don Feder. "I didn't vote for Bush to get this."

Rep. John Shadegg (R.-Ariz.) said that he might consider Bush's ideas, but only if we secure the border first. "The President mentioned a 40% increase in the Border Patrol, but it's not working," he said. "In Arizona, where I live, the border is completely out of control. [Securing it] must be done first."

"For whatever reason, the federal government hasn't enforced the laws on the books," said Rep. J. D. Hayworth (R.-Ariz.). "The President talked about giving illegal aliens proper documents. Does that include Social Security cards and driver's licenses? With the motor voter law, that could cause problems. This is a Pandora's box." Under Bush's plan, he said, "It will be the policy of the United States to provide an endless supply of cheap labor. It virtually ensures a permanent economic underclass. It raises questions about education, health care. What about the people who are trying to leave welfare for work? Don't we want to help them?"

Joseph D'Agostino is Associate Editor of HUMAN EVENTS.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; Mexico; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: California; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; guestworker; illegalimmigration; illegals; immigrantlist; immigration
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Federal Immigration and Nationality Act

Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)

"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

We are an American Indigenous Hispanics Rights Group concerned about the direction our states elected officials and business leaders have and are considering taking on illegal entrants, their labor and crime and how it is affecting our state and the rule of law.
As an Advocate Group of Diverse Utah Voters we demand a voice in the immigration issues concerning our culture, school overcrowding, students safety, health screening, neighborhood safety, highway overcrowding, government immigration decisions,
employment laws and rights and immigration law enforcement.
We are actively informing Utahans on legal & illegal immigration issues and calling Utah to action. You are needed to vote, attend petition drives and help anyway you can with our struggle to keep Utah culture for Utahans & all legal American citizens. Our leaders will hear the will of the people at the ballot boxes!

Every time they mention amnesty—or regularization, earned legalization, annexation or whatever the euphemism of the day Utahans are becoming more firmly entrenched in their opposition.
Naked defiance of the people’s will is not conducive to re-election.
Vote for officials that obey the rule of law on enforcement of immigration law next election day.

May we suggest that our governor and each and every member of our Congress recall the oath of office they have taken and review Article IV, Section 4 of our Constitution. It reads:The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government and shall protect each of them against invasion and in application of the legislature or of the executive against domestic violence.

The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave

• In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.
• A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.
• The leadership of the Columbia Lil’ Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry following deportation.
Immigration politics have similarly harmed New York. Former mayor Rudolph Giuliani sued all the way up to the Supreme Court to defend the city’s sanctuary policy against a 1996 federal law decreeing that cities could not prohibit their employees from cooperating with the INS. Oh yeah? said Giuliani; just watch me. The INS, he claimed, with what turned out to be grotesque irony, only aims to "terrorize people." Though he lost in court, he remained defiant to the end. On September 5, 2001, his handpicked charter-revision committee ruled that New York could still require that its employees keep immigration information confidential to preserve trust between immigrants and government. Six days later, several visa-overstayers participated in the most devastating attack on the city and the country in history.
But enforcing laws against illegal labor is among government’s lowest priorities. In 2001, only 124 agents nationwide were trying to find and prosecute the hundreds of thousands of employers and millions of illegal aliens who violate the employment laws, the Associated Press reports.
Of the incalculable changes in American politics, demographics, and culture that the continuing surge of migrants is causing, one of the most profound is the breakdown of the distinction between legal and illegal entry. Everywhere, illegal aliens receive free public education and free medical care at taxpayer expense; 13 states offer them driver’s licenses. States everywhere have been pushed to grant illegal aliens college scholarships and reduced in-state tuition. One hundred banks, over 800 law-enforcement agencies, and dozens of cities accept an identification card created by Mexico to credentialize illegal Mexican aliens in the U.S. The Bush administration has given its blessing to this matricula consular card, over the strong protest of the FBI, which warns that the gaping security loopholes that the card creates make it a boon to money launderers, immigrant smugglers, and terrorists. Border authorities have already caught an Iranian man sneaking across the border this year, Mexican matricula card in hand.
Illegal aliens and their advocates speak loudly about what they think the U.S. owes them, not vice versa
. "I believe they have a right . . . to work, to drive their kids to school," said California assemblywoman Sarah Reyes. An immigration agent says that people he stops "get in your face about their rights, because our failure to enforce the law emboldens them." Taking this idea to its extreme, Joaquín Avila, a UCLA Chicano studies professor and law lecturer, argues that to deny non-citizens the vote, especially in the many California cities where they constitute the majority, is a form of apartheid.

Clear Law Enforcement For Criminal Alien Removal Act Of 2003 (Clear Act)

Despite the voices of those who naively believe that the influx of this estimated 9 to 13 million illegal aliens into the United States is a positive thing, the fact of the matter is that illegal immigration is having an extremely negative impact upon America at many levels. Unfortunately, the majority of illegal aliens who are here are engaged in criminal activity. Identity theft, use of fraudulent social security numbers and green cards, tax evasion, driving without licenses represent some of the crimes that are engaged in by the majority of illegal aliens on a daily basis merely to maintain and hide their illegal status. In addition, violent crime and drug distribution and possession is also prevalent among illegal aliens.
In summary, let me therefore state unequivocally that as a state prosecutor, I believe that this legislation is necessary. However, I caution you that the ultimate success of this goal will be based upon the political will of both political parties here in Washington. Quite frankly, I am not very optimistic. I believe that both the Republicans and the Democrats are to blame for the present lack of enthusiasm on the part of the government to enforce immigration laws. Business interests that often influence Republican Party politics clearly want cheap labor and often employ illegal aliens in menial jobs paid less than the minimum wage. On the other hand, the Democratic Party continuously at the national level panders to ethnic politics.

Statement

A 29-year veteran assistant chief with the Border Patrol characterized the problem of illegal immigration to me as "worse than epidemic." He said the practice of the Immigration Service has changed – but for the worse, now actually aiding and abetting more and more illegal immigration. This agent said the Immigration and Naturalization Service practice when he started out was to detain all illegal aliens; the only aliens INS released before deportation had extraordinary extenuating circumstances. But now, aliens are routinely released; the only ones held in custody are those with unusual circumstances.
These "let them go" policies and practices have real-world consequences. "Let them go" policies apparently contributed to the year-long rape rampage of Reynaldo Elias Rapalo, the recently apprehended illegal criminal alien from Honduras who is suspected in seven rapes in Miami. Local law enforcement arrested him for "lewd and lascivious" molestation in October 2002, after his visa had expired. But he wasn’t removed from the country.
"Let them go" contributed to the rape of two nuns and the murder of one nun last year in Oregon. El Salvadoran illegal alien Maximiliano Silerio Esparza, who has been indicted in these crimes, had been caught and let go by the Border Patrol, despite his prior criminal record and an outstanding warrant for his arrest.
"Let them go" put Jamaican illegal alien Lee Malvo back on America’s streets after police captured him in Washington State. This occurred just months before the Washington, D.C., sniper shootings of 2002, in which Malvo is a suspect.

Bush Immigration Plan a Bad Idea - David Limbaugh

The fact that even Bush's supporters aren't sure why he's doing this or how he can justify it is all the proof we need that it is wrongheaded. It's a muddled plan, with dubious goals and inevitably negative consequences -- which doesn't bode well for the president's image as a decisive leader with moral clarity.
Beyond undermining the rule of law, this plan devalues the uniqueness of American citizenship by trivializing the laws aimed at making it selective and a special privilege. It sends a message that illegal immigration is a trifling matter.

US Constitution - Preamble

You, the people of the United States, in order to form voting blocks for the DNC, establish cheap labor for the RNC, insure multiculturalism, provide for the current illegals, promote the general welfare OF THE WORLD and forsake the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Amnesty for the United States of the Americas.

Where is the The Bush Record support for this this bill H.R. 2671 introduced 7/9/2003, with 112 Cosponsors.

Will the conservative base continue to "lie back and enjoy it" or put Principle Before Party?

In 1990 Clayton Williams was the Republican candidate for governor in the state of Texas. He was locked in a tight race with Democrat Ann Richards but seemed to be gaining momentum in the final weeks of the campaign. Then it happened. The brash millionaire opened his mouth and inserted his foot up all the way up to his knee.
Hoping to curry favor with the press, Williams invited several reporters for some informal "off the record" time at his ranch. In casual conversation, the subject of the weather came up. Williams could not resist the temptation to play meteorologist and commented that bad weather is sort of like rape: "as long as it's inevitable, you might as well lie back and enjoy it."

Compare the goals of Free Republic to The Bush Record and then to anyone of these:

  1. Welcome to the Constitution Party National Internet Headquarters
  2. America First Party
  3. American Patriot Party Website Home

1 posted on 01/13/2004 7:04:53 PM PST by Federalist 78
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To: KantianBurke; goldstategop; Map Kernow; Klickitat; B4Ranch; sarcasm
XXX
2 posted on 01/13/2004 7:07:35 PM PST by Federalist 78
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To: conspiratoristo; StoneColdGOP; fatso; WOSG; 4.1O dana super trac pak
If you are a compassionate executive, you don't have to enforce the law or uphold the Constitution?

That clause is in there somewhere!

3 posted on 01/13/2004 7:11:29 PM PST by Federalist 78
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To: Federalist 78
Plan For Immigration Reform Dismays Many Conservatives

Dismays? LOL I'm way beyond dismayed. I'm so far past that, I'll actually not sweat if a Dem gets elected.


Our politicians are a bit scared. KEEP THE PRESSURE ON! Continue to write, phone, fax and email your politicians on this issue. Let them absolutely FEAR for re-election over this. NumbersUSA has a report card on each of them on this issue. Most are near flunking! VOTE THEM OUT! They'll put this one off until after the elections, then PRESTO..it'll be shoved down our throats with total abandon. Don't let that happen. We have to be prepared to IMPEACH them if they do this to us.

SHUT THE DOOR IN 2004! VOTE TANCREDO!
4 posted on 01/13/2004 7:16:53 PM PST by ETERNAL WARMING
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To: ETERNAL WARMING
Americans for Better Immigration
5 posted on 01/13/2004 7:20:17 PM PST by Federalist 78
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: Federalist 78
Yes, the hyper-capitalists are enacting there end-runaround the free-market.

They actually HATE the free market, because left to a true "laissez faire" policy, (another thing they secretly hate - it's beyond their control) wages would rise and fall depending upon the nature of the work plus the state of the economy balanced against the salary.

But with an imported source of taxpayer subsidized slaves (Make no mistake, these folks tax our schools, housing, foodstamps, welfare, civil services... et al) these "Pseudo" Capitalists are cheating the game at our Country's expense.

The true cost of their workforce is being foisted on the rest of us!

When will Patriots re-awake?

7 posted on 01/13/2004 7:30:56 PM PST by StatesEnemy
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To: Conservativewhohatesfakecons

I have also heard that you will get banned from this site very easily if you disagree with Bush too much. I know of some "true conservatives" who were banned from here for NO reason;) I hate Dean and the other socialist democrats but it doesn't mean I won't be vocal about Bush when he does something stupid like this immigration policy that very well could destroy the United States of America.

true conservatives like those that support the goals @ Free Republic which the RNC should review from time to time, since they refuse to look at the Constitution.

I understand that they bleed 'em out and then feed 'em back. Something like a revolving door policy with varying delay.

I think Marine Inspector may have been bled and is now back.

8 posted on 01/13/2004 7:32:15 PM PST by Federalist 78
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To: StatesEnemy

They actually HATE the free market, because left to a true "laissez faire" policy, (another thing they secretly hate - it's beyond their control) wages would rise and fall depending upon the nature of the work plus the state of the economy balanced against the salary.

Like this lettuce rights advocate...lettuce over law...rule of lettuce....

Who is gonna pick my lettuce?

30 posted on 01/12/2004 12:41:04 PM CST by junta

9 posted on 01/13/2004 7:35:24 PM PST by Federalist 78
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To: Conservativewhohatesfakecons
re:Comment #6 Removed by Moderator
 
By pulling #6, The moderator just proved your point.
This is getting ridiculous. I can't wait to hear why this was pulled.
10 posted on 01/13/2004 7:37:26 PM PST by tomakaze ( Todays "useful idiot" is tomorrows "useless eater")
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To: Federalist 78
"I think that for the first time, he may have come up with something that may seriously endanger his base," said Free Congress Foundation President Paul Weyrich. "This is a way that terrorists can get into the country, legally and everything," he said.

Weyrich is right on this. The President appears to have abandoned defense of our borders along with his duty to enforce the law.

11 posted on 01/13/2004 7:41:24 PM PST by The_Eaglet (Michael Peroutka for President!)
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To: Federalist 78
LOL and then cry.
12 posted on 01/13/2004 7:43:07 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: B4Ranch
Its Over
13 posted on 01/13/2004 7:47:01 PM PST by fatso
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To: fatso
You're not allowed to say that on FR!
14 posted on 01/13/2004 7:48:33 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: The_Eaglet
Robertson: God Will Bless Bush With 'Blowout' Victory -- GOPUSA
"I think George Bush is going to win in a walk," Robertson said, explaining that the Lord has been speaking to him a lot recently about the upcoming presidential election.
He added, "I really believe I'm hearing from the Lord it's going to be like a blowout election in 2004. It's shaping up that way."
Robertson stated that Bush has found favor with God and that the president is reaping the benefits as a result of his dedication to and faith in the Lord.
"The Lord has just blessed [Bush]," Robertson explained.
In fact, Robertson asserted that Bush is virtually unbeatable because of God's favor on him.
"I mean, [Bush] could make terrible mistakes and come out of it," Robertson continued.

15 posted on 01/13/2004 7:49:12 PM PST by Federalist 78
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To: fatso

Its Over

Bush has nine lives, see post #15

16 posted on 01/13/2004 7:51:22 PM PST by Federalist 78
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: tomakaze; Federalist 78
Oh He**! Now #8's gonna hafta get pulled, too.
The post-yanking is getting mucho loco.

BTW, did #6 have any threats of violence or personal attacks, or something else verboten, that wasn't quoted in the comment I read in #8, that may have been a reason to pull it?

18 posted on 01/13/2004 7:53:05 PM PST by tgslTakoma (In the USA we don't reward lawbreakers - or do we? No amnesty for illegal aliens.)
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To: All
2 or 3 years go by....

Whatever screwy-faloowie 'Guest Worker' documentation the beurocrats have decided on, are now well in the counterfieters bag of tricks...

The INS is completely gutted, and disillusioned - so as to be relegated to a "Welcoming Comittee" - passing out brochures (en espanol) that highlight how to obtain in state tuition for your bambinos.

And the terrorists will LAUGH!

"All we have to do Akmed, is learn spanish! If we shave these silly beards, we can pass for Mexican!"

19 posted on 01/13/2004 7:53:24 PM PST by StatesEnemy
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To: Federalist 78
And today, Rush played a quote of former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neil saying he will vote for Bush in November.
20 posted on 01/13/2004 7:54:03 PM PST by Consort
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To: Federalist 78
There appears to be a conflict between what Mr. Robertson claims what God spoke to him and the revealed Word of God:

"Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house."
- Proverbs 17:13

21 posted on 01/13/2004 7:54:18 PM PST by The_Eaglet (Michael Peroutka for President!)
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To: StatesEnemy
We are awakening.
Rescuing system next target of reformers-Campaign Finance Reform thread-day 34

22 posted on 01/13/2004 7:56:50 PM PST by The_Eaglet (Michael Peroutka for President!)
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To: Federalist 78
A FReeper's Guide To Immigration Reform
23 posted on 01/13/2004 8:03:58 PM PST by Happy2BMe (Liberty does not tolerate lawlessness and a borderless nation will not prevail.)
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To: The_Eaglet

There appears to be a conflict between what Mr. Robertson claims what God spoke to him and the revealed Word of God:

Robertson is a good conservative humanitarian and businessman who supports missionary work.

There are many conflicts between his claims and the revealed Word of God:

24 posted on 01/13/2004 8:06:56 PM PST by Federalist 78
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To: Federalist 78
What Is Considered An Illegal Activity Under Immigration Law?

Here are some examples of the most common violations of United States Immigration laws:

Examples:

(This is not a complete list of violations.)



25 posted on 01/13/2004 8:06:56 PM PST by Happy2BMe (Liberty does not tolerate lawlessness and a borderless nation will not prevail.)
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To: Federalist 78
I have also heard that you will get banned from this site very easily if you disagree with Bush too much. I know of some "true conservatives" who were banned from here for NO reason;)

I'm the type of "grassroots conservative" that puts my country and its Constitution above---WAY above---some "Fearless Leader" like Bush or his party. If my opposition to this treasonous "This is not an amnesty! This is NOT an amnesty!" plan gets me banned, I'll wear it as a badge of honor.

26 posted on 01/13/2004 8:07:20 PM PST by Map Kernow ("I hold that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing" ---Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Federalist 78
Have you read Robertson's book The New World Order?
27 posted on 01/13/2004 8:08:46 PM PST by Happy2BMe (Liberty does not tolerate lawlessness and a borderless nation will not prevail.)
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To: tgslTakoma
re:BTW, did #6 have any threats of violence or personal attacks, or something else verboten, that wasn't quoted in the comment I read in #8, that may have been a reason to pull it?
 
Not that I saw.
I think an admin has a bug up their keister because everyone aint falling in lockstep to support Bush's immigration disaster.
That's their perogotive, but it's just plain asinine.
Hell, just a few days ago poor old putupon's tagline was thrown up against the wall, shook down for it's lunch money and thrown in a locker.
It was harmless, women didn't miscarry upon reading it, frogs didn't fall from the sky, and old people didn't keel over at the site of it. -something to the effect of "immigration somthing something, El Presidente Jorge Del RINO Arbusto" or something like that.
28 posted on 01/13/2004 8:14:51 PM PST by tomakaze ( Todays "useful idiot" is tomorrows "useless eater")
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To: Federalist 78
This move is 100% pandering for the Hispanic vote, and it won't work. This is probably one of the worst moves Bush and Co. could have made. Let us hope the reps in Congress don't get bought off.
29 posted on 01/13/2004 8:15:36 PM PST by vpintheak (Our Liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain!)
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To: Federalist 78
"I think that for the first time, he may have come up with something that may seriously endanger his base," said Free Congress Foundation President Paul Weyrich. "This is a way that terrorists can get into the country, legally and everything," he said.

In view of the President's conduct respecting the CFR Act [signed it], the vastly expensive prescription benefits legislation, remarks concerning the possible extension of the AWB, and finally, his catastrophic sellout on illegal immigration, Real Americans are entitled to ask whether the President holds any respect whatsoever for the Constitution he swore to defend and protect. Does he have strongly held principles? And to put it in crass political terms, if Rove is the prime movant in this long Train of Abuses, are Real Americans not then entitled to conclude that Rove has persuaded the President that he may endlessly disregard his conservative base? We all recall Lee Atwater telling President Read My Lips that he could disregard the conservative base on taxes, among other things. Lee Atwater's judgment was spectacularly unsound and I fear that of his protege Rove may be worse. In the four cases cited above, there is no upside for the President or the country - just a Pandora's Box of downside for the country and an increasingly estranged and alienated conservative base, that is, the party bedrock. Thus it seems that Rove has convinced the President that no matter what outrage the President commits against the conservative principles he ran on, the conservative base will be there not only on election day, but during the campaign. Moreover, Rove does not understand that the bizarre spectacle of our President mud wrestling in Monterey in a dogpile of pygmies does not go down well with Americans, including many Democrats, who believe in our national sovereignty. Let us all pray that God will grant the President light to see. Amen and may God Bless America

30 posted on 01/13/2004 8:40:02 PM PST by Bedford Forrest (Roger, Contact, Judy, Out. Fox One. Splash one.<I>)
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To: tomakaze

few days ago poor old putupon's tagline was thrown up against the wall, shook down for it's lunch money and thrown in a locker.It was harmless, women didn't miscarry upon reading it, frogs didn't fall from the sky, and old people didn't keel over at the site of it. -something to the effect of "immigration somthing something, El Presidente Jorge Del RINO Arbusto" or something like that.

LOL!

31 posted on 01/13/2004 8:42:16 PM PST by Federalist 78
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To: tomakaze
That's their perogotive, but it's just plain asinine.

A sad state of affairs...

32 posted on 01/13/2004 8:51:48 PM PST by tgslTakoma (In the USA we don't reward lawbreakers - or do we? No amnesty for illegal aliens.)
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To: Bedford Forrest

Thus it seems that Rove has convinced the President that no matter what outrage the President commits against the conservative principles he ran on, the conservative base will be there not only on election day, but during the campaign.

The first time I heard, "I didn't leave the democratic party, the party left me," was during the 1988 elections. Those folk found the BIG RNC TENT.

There is a claim being made, "For every conservative we lose, we pick up two from the DNC." I have no link, statistic, or anyone to quote. The more probable case is, WHERE THEY GONNA GO! What are the conservatives going do? The third parties have made no preparation whatsoever, except the Libertarians.

Just like Robertson said, BUSH CAN DO NO WRONG!

33 posted on 01/13/2004 8:54:15 PM PST by Federalist 78
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To: Federalist 78
Robertson stated that Bush has found favor with God and that the president is reaping the benefits as a result of his dedication to and faith in the Lord.

Let's not forget that Pat was the guy who ended up apologizing for saying that 9/11 was God's punishment on Evil America.

34 posted on 01/13/2004 9:11:14 PM PST by pawdoggie
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To: pawdoggie
bump to read later
35 posted on 01/13/2004 10:08:17 PM PST by meema
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To: Federalist 78
The third parties have made no preparation whatsoever,

I think Bush and Rove are in the process of creating one.

36 posted on 01/13/2004 10:17:38 PM PST by Pelham
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To: Map Kernow
"The National Population Council reported that 9.9 million Mexicans call America home and that more than 7.82 million of those - or 79 percent - do not have U.S. citizenship. It did not break down how many had legal residence papers."

"According to a RoperASW poll from last year, 83 percent of Americans support mandatory detention and forfeiture of property for illegal immigrants, followed by deportation."

I'm one of the 83%.

If the President Bush or Tom Ridge would announce that in six months they will be paying a $50 per head bounty for each illegal alien on American soil there would be a mad rush for the borders.

A policeman in a car costs the average city about $200 an hour. Helicopters cost at least $2000 an hour with the ground crews. What is the full cost of a teacher per hour? $140.00 or there about.

If we could get illegal aliens to turn each other in, just the ones trying to slip through the net, (I know thousands would attempt it) we would save billions in law enforcement, welfare programs, unemployment, medical care, job training and schools the first year.

Do all this under Executive Order and tell the Courts to back off. This is national security!

Any employer who has employed an illegal alien more than five months from the announcement date will be fined $5000 per employee. One month later enforcement begins. This will give employers 5 months to shed the illegals and hire legally papered actual American citizens.

Then on the announced date, start in a state such as Oklahoma. Well centered, not overly populated and clean the state out. This would give Homeland, INS and Border Patrol time to install their co-agents in various court houses around the country to verify a persons paperwork, i.e.. birth certificates, hospital records, etc.

Go state to state from the epicenter sweeping out the criminals who have successfully avoided suspicion. They already had 5 months to get out, hanging around to test the system carries a SEVERE penalty. They won't be able to say they weren't warned.

Divide a state into quadrants depending on population per square mile., First arrest those whose names were turn in for the bounty. Then others suspected by local law agencies. When arrests slow down, open an adjoining quadrant.

Get caught after the selected dated and the result would be every foreign national who is not in America legally would forfeit all their belongings (houses, cars, bank accounts, etc.) and be deported within 24 hours. These forfeited belongings would then be given to local churches for distribution to the needy in that community. Another cost saver!

This enforcement would apply to illegals from every country in the world, not just Mexico.

Imagine the number of Chinese who would be taking the ship home with everything in the house, new cars, you name it would be on those ships. The thousands of Canadians who decided the USA was better than Canada would be again headed North.

How many schools could be closed? How many hospitals and state paid housing tracts? How many welfare offices? How many planned jail enlargements could be stopped for lack of need?

How many state and federal employees would find out that they have the time to actually give good service to their American customers?

Oh yes, it would be an economic shocker in the amount of taxes that could be reduced or used to actually improve something needed for American citizens, instead of illegal foreigners.

Want an approximate number of the population drop? Try 50 million+ with the majority over 30 years of age, having been illegal residents of America for over ten years.

I've always wondered how many folks are on Medicare that don't deserve it. I'll bet that would save a big chuink of money that could be used for American war veterans and citizens health problems.

Just imagine the frantic squealing from our politicians thinking of the lost votes and contributions. That would be a sideshow worth watching!

Scan the whole page for good reading!
Conservative Debate Handbook

37 posted on 01/13/2004 11:40:20 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: Federalist 78
I really don't understand the crazy logic of prefering wage depressing illegals over a healthy wage for an American taxpayer that helps to pay the national debt down.

It has to be plain and simple old sell out corruption.
38 posted on 01/13/2004 11:51:41 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: Federalist 78
Thanks for posting this thread. I agree completely that Bush is making a horrific mistake. I am working on the S.O.S. (Save Our State) petition here in California--a State constitutional amendment denying welfare, drivers licenses, etc. to illegal aliens-- and many Republicans who are siging it are disgusted with Bush's decision regarding illegal aliens.
39 posted on 01/13/2004 11:59:51 PM PST by tame (If I must be the victim of a criminal, please let it be Catwoman! Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!)
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To: tame
I agree with you that Bush is making a horrific mistake. I am working overseas right now and, from where I stand, this is just an unbelievably horrible move by Bush and the Republican leadership. They are panderers surrendering their principles. What ARE they thinking??

And, judging from the personal email I have received over the past several days from my friends back home, there are plenty of other mainstream Republicans who are outraged about this, too.
40 posted on 01/14/2004 12:18:42 AM PST by MissouriForBush
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To: MissouriForBush
Michelle Malkin is sure right on the money on this whole issue!
41 posted on 01/14/2004 12:29:14 AM PST by tame (If I must be the victim of a criminal, please let it be Catwoman! Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!)
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To: MissAmericanPie
I really don't understand the crazy logic of prefering wage depressing illegals over a healthy wage for an American taxpayer that helps to pay the national debt down.

Americans just aren't there to do all these jobs. It's not that Americans aren't willing it's just that we have other things we do. Just what are all these potential fruit pickers doing now? Of the 5.9% that's currently unemployed most are going to be boing back to some sort of white collar work in a little bit, others will find work in nice air conditioned stores. Then you've got your people who wouldn't work if you put a gun to their head.

You can try raising wages but eventually it's just not worth it and businesses are forced to close taking other jobs and investments with them. That's part of the reason why some of us here think a "kick the bums out" policy without a guest worker program is doomed to either fail or cause a recession.

42 posted on 01/14/2004 12:29:26 AM PST by MattAMiller
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To: MissouriForBush
Speaking of illegal aliens, excuse me while I change my tag line...
43 posted on 01/14/2004 12:31:18 AM PST by tame (Are you willing to do for the truth what leftists are willing to do for a lie?)
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To: tame
Love your new tagline!
44 posted on 01/14/2004 12:45:10 AM PST by MissouriForBush
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To: *immigrant_list; A Navy Vet; Lion Den Dan; Free the USA; Libertarianize the GOP; madfly; B4Ranch; ..
ping
45 posted on 01/14/2004 12:47:41 AM PST by gubamyster
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To: gubamyster
bttt
46 posted on 01/14/2004 1:07:09 AM PST by lainde (Heads up...We're coming and we've got tongue blades!!)
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: MissouriForBush
Love your new tagline!

Thanks :o)

48 posted on 01/14/2004 1:20:46 AM PST by tame (Are you willing to do for the truth what leftists are willing to do for a lie?)
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To: Federalist 78
BTW, I love your profile page! Harvard could become a first rate school if they made your page mandatory reading :0)
49 posted on 01/14/2004 1:41:27 AM PST by tame (Are you willing to do for the truth what leftists are willing to do for a lie?)
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To: Federalist 78
Thanks for the extra links for third parties.

I have voted straight Republican all of my life. The only time I didn't vote was the Ford/Carter election.

Since the party has left me, I will be looking for a new party or possibly write in.
50 posted on 01/14/2004 1:57:07 AM PST by texastoo (a "has-been" Republican)
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