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HISPANICS: KEY TO GOP'S FUTURE
New York Post ^ | January 15, 2004 | Dick Morris

Posted on 01/15/2004 7:07:05 AM PST by cricket

January 15, 2004 -- PRESIDENT Bush's im- migration/amnesty proposal will probably be remembered in history as the idea that saved a political party. By taking the lead in extending the benefits of legal protections to more than 10 million illegal immigrants now living in the United States, Bush has taken a bold and dramatic step to avert the extinction of his own party.

Until Bush acted, the grinding inevitability of demographic change was likely to doom the GOP to an early death. As America became 1 percent more Hispanic each year, the Republicans could not concede this growing group to the Democrats by 2-1 ratios without risking total annihilation down the road.

The Republicans have got to break the solid demographic phalanx that sustains the Democratic Party: Blacks, Hispanics and single white women. Together, this group cast 25 percent of votes in 1990, 32 percent in 2000 and will account for 40 percent in 2008.

But by embracing the cause of Hispanic immigrants and extending to them elemental civil rights and minimum-wage protections, Bush has struck a blow on their behalf that will resonate in their voting habits for generations to come.

His legislative proposals are akin to the sponsorship of a sweeping civil-rights bill in 1963-65 by Presidents Kennedy and Johnson and will have a similar effect in binding Hispanics to the Republicans as the civil-rights legislation did in linking blacks to the Democrats.

For decades, Republicans systematically alienated Hispanics by insisting on English-only initiatives, opposing benefits for illegal immigrants and demanding an end even to free public schools for the children of those who came here illegally. These measures drove Hispanics into the waiting arms of Democrats. Bush has now acted to reverse the legacy of these initiatives and to welcome Hispanics into the GOP.

As Catholic voters, who take their religion seriously, Hispanics are a natural Republican constituency. Recent data that closely links the frequency of church attendance to party-voting habits supports the theory that this very religious voting group is likely to adhere to the Republican Party once its platform stops repelling them at every turn.

Republican efforts to win black voters have proven largely fruitless. Even the appointment of blacks to the two top jobs in the Bush foreign policy apparatus has failed to generate any significant African-American support for Bush in the polls. But candidates who appeal to the Hispanic vote - Gov. Pataki in New York, Gov. Rick Perry in Texas and the Bushes in Florida and Texas - have shown a real ability to get large shares of Hispanic voters.

As Hispanics follow the traditional paths of upward mobility that immigrant groups have trod before them, they are likely to lean more and more toward the Republicans - just as Irish and Italians do these days, abandoning the Democratic orientation of their ancestors.

Hispanics hold the key to the political outcomes in many major states. California, Texas and Florida are heavily influenced by their participation as are New York, New Jersey and Illinois. These are the key battleground states that hold the balance of power between the parties.

Apart from the politics of the issue, the merits also dictate the Bush initiative. America has 4 percent of the world's population but 25 percent of its wealth. It is incumbent on us to open our doors to those who seek upward mobility.

The only thing standing between subsistence and starvation in Mexico, and much of Central America, is the money sent home to needy families by hard working men and women in the United States who tend our gardens, wash our dishes and clean our floors. It is not American workers who they are putting out of jobs, it is American robots. The alternative to their low wage work is not American labor but machines.

The United States needs the skills, energy, savvy and willingness to work hard of our illegal immigrants. They are illegal only because our laws have been nativist and short-sighted. Now Bush is setting them right.


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: aliens; gop; hispanics; immigrantlist; latinovote; trends
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Do not think we are close to extinction; but there are too many wrongs' in this situation of illegals that need to be righted. It is time for a dramatic shift of policy here that lends itself to the more positive winds of change.
1 posted on 01/15/2004 7:07:05 AM PST by cricket
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To: cricket
My son in law Juan Camacho, Mexican by birth, became a citizen of the USA yesterday in Oklahoma. No one came to his party afterward to celebrate, but he took it in stride. He has joined the Republican party in Tulsa county, and enjoys Rush Limbaugh, Neil Bortz and Dr. Laura. This article has a lot of merit, and if allowed to be brought into the mainstream, hispanics might have some real family hard working concepts to contribute to the party.
2 posted on 01/15/2004 7:12:43 AM PST by rovenstinez
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To: cricket
...Until Bush acted, the grinding inevitability of demographic change was likely to doom the GOP to an early death. As America became 1 percent more Hispanic each year, the Republicans could not concede this growing group to the Democrats by 2-1 ratios without risking total annihilation down the road...

He could have done his job, and secured the borders against the invasion, but what the hey, two per cent of them will vote for him.

3 posted on 01/15/2004 7:16:16 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (The only thing standing between the rule of law and anarchy is that conservatives are good losers!)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
"He could have done his job, and secured the borders against the invasion,"

A worthy idea, but becomes no more than a soundbite really when it comes down to the practical implementation .

4 posted on 01/15/2004 7:53:51 AM PST by cricket
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To: cricket
Bush gives country away

Posted: January 15, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

President Bush's plan to legalize 8 million to 12 million
illegal aliens – maybe considerably more – is one of
the most irresponsible, dangerous, reckless proposals
to come out of Washington in my lifetime.

And that's saying a lot.

In my lifetime, I have witnessed:

wage-and-price controls imposed by Richard
Nixon;

the greatest expansion of unconstitutional,
immoral wealth-transfer programs in the
history of our country;

the use of the Internal Revenue Service by
President Clinton to harass and intimidate
political adversaries;

the sacrifice of more than 50,000 U.S.
servicemen in a war they would not be allowed
to win;

the shredding of the Constitution in a
thousand ways to bring us to the point at
which politicians no longer even question the
limits of the federal government;

the transfer by President Clinton of sensitive
technology with military applications to a
budding superpower for campaign cash;

the demoralization and emasculation of the
country under President Carter;

I watched all this and more in nearly a half-century of
life. But, honestly, President Bush's proposal to
legalize untold millions of illegal aliens is potentially
worse than any of these blunders, any of these
mistakes, any of these abuses.

Why?

First, because it is immoral. Bush claims this is the
"compassionate" thing to do. But he is misusing the
term "compassion" the same way do those who
would most like to unseat him from power. There is
nothing compassionate about inflicting pain on others,
in hurting the country, while accepting none of the
responsibility, nor pain, nor sacrifice yourself. This
move will not materially affect George W. Bush's life.
But it will impact those competing for jobs at the
lower end of the economic ladder. It will impact those
who live in crime-plagued areas of the country and
who don't have Secret Service protection. It will
impact those who chose to obey the laws rather than
flout them as their first act in America.

Second, it is unconstitutional. The federal government
has few and limited areas of responsibility in our
republican system of government. Among those
clearly defined areas are the defense of the nation
and the defense of our borders. This act is a
reprehensible betrayal of the president's oath of
office to uphold the law and execute it.

Third, it is bad policy. Even the simple act of
proposing this notion encourages more illegal
immigration into our country. More foreigners will
want to get in on the action. It sends a horrible signal
that America doesn't really believe in enforcing its
laws. It promotes chaos at our borders and crime in
our streets.

Fourth, it risks national security. Presumably, there
was a reason this president placed the Immigration
and Naturalization Service under the Department of
Homeland Defense. The American people assume it
was because he finally recognized that out-of-control
immigration is a real threat – especially at a time when
terrorists are trying desperately to kill and maim as
many of us as possible.

It's not strong enough to call Bush's proposal
"irresponsible." It is borderline seditious. And there is
a widespread perception he is making this move
because he believes there is personal political gain in
it.

That is hardly "compassion," Mr. President. That is
the worst kind of cynicism. That is the worst kind of
selfishness. That is the worst kind of example a leader
could set for the nation.

Shame on Bush. Shame on his party for standing by
quietly as he sets out to destroy the fabric of our
nation. Shame on the opposition for suggesting his
move doesn't go far enough. Shame on all Americans
who lie down and accept this outrage from
Washington.
5 posted on 01/15/2004 7:55:13 AM PST by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: cricket
Hispanics are traditionally liberal because they are primary beneficiaries of all the government goodies. Morris is one of the RINO-est of RINOs and is best only when slamming the Clintons. When it comes to issues other than the Clintons, his leftist politics dominate. He has an amazing track record of being wrong on every issue he has espoused that didn't relate to the Clintons, and he's wrong on this.

He supports this Bush "initiative" (it's hard to call it an initiative related to Bush because Vicente Fox has pushed this for years and McCain is writing the bill to try to push it through Congress). Bush is just the PR man for this, it's not his idea and there is no "initiative" on his part attached to it. Morris knows that legalizing millions of illegal immigrants is good for the Dems because it brings millions of dumbed down handout seeking voters for the Dems to pander to and destroys Bush's chance at a second term.

And seeing Bush replaced by a Dem would please Morris to no end.
6 posted on 01/15/2004 7:55:25 AM PST by DustyMoment (Repeal CFR NOW!!)
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To: DustyMoment
"because they are primary beneficiaries of all the government goodies"

You have any stats or are you just "puting that out there"?

7 posted on 01/15/2004 7:57:17 AM PST by manfromlamancha
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To: cricket
Bush has struck a blow on their behalf that will resonate in their voting habits for generations to come.

I have my doubts that it will make any difference at all. But we'll see. If Bush's Hispanic vote in 2004 is higher than the statistical pattern among white voters, it will have made a difference.

8 posted on 01/15/2004 7:57:36 AM PST by Zack Nguyen
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To: cricket
As Catholic voters, who take their religion seriously, Hispanics are a natural Republican constituency.

This is what I've been saying all along. President Bush is doing more for conservatives than any other president in my lifetime. Anyone who knows these people personally will tell you that for the most part they are family oriented, God fearing people who will work hard and appreciate this country. It breaks my heart to see dissparaging generalizations made against a "natural Republican constituency".

9 posted on 01/15/2004 8:13:10 AM PST by mgist
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To: rovenstinez
My son in law Juan Camacho, Mexican by birth, became a citizen of the USA yesterday in Oklahoma. . . .He has joined the Republican party in Tulsa county, and enjoys Rush Limbaugh, Neil Bortz and Dr. Laura. This article has a lot of merit, and if allowed to be brought into the mainstream, hispanics might have some real family hard working concepts to contribute to the party.

Heartfelt congratulations to Juan on his becoming an American citizen. He is off to a wonderful start by his 'talk radio' choices; enjoying and learning from those who believe in individual achievment/excellence and empowerment. . .

versus, of course, the voices of the anti-individual/personally dis-empowering, collective-Democrat-Left-wing voice of rest of the Media.

May he lead by his example so that others will follow. . .

10 posted on 01/15/2004 8:13:26 AM PST by cricket
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To: DustyMoment
Hispanics are traditionally liberal because they are primary beneficiaries of all the government goodies.

Wrong, hispanics a traditionally liberal because Pat Buchanan, and the like, scare the bezjeesus out of them. If you had some Republican calling you a freeloading lettuce picker, after working 12 hour shifts, you would vote Democrat also.

11 posted on 01/15/2004 8:17:22 AM PST by mgist
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To: All
This time Morris is wrong. Dem rat liars scared many Americans of Hispanic origin away from Prop 187. They'll do it year after year on all issues.

When Prop 187 qualified for the ballot more than half of Americans of Hispanic origin favored it. Then came the months of fear white America campaign 24/7 on TV. Finally, the day before the election..

"SAN FRANCISCO, Nov. 5, 1994 -- On the eve of Tuesday's election, Proposition 187 maintains a lead in polls but has lost one of its most valuable public relations tools: a majority of Latino voters.

"A recent poll showed that 62 percent of Latino voters surveyed opposed Prop.187, while only 22 per cent said they would vote for the measure to bar illegal immigrants from public schools and health care. "

"'What is happening is the community was not educated before,' said Victor Marquez, a San Francisco opponent of Prop. 187 and an attorney with La Raza Centro Legal.

"The Spanish-language network Univision contributed $100,000 to Taxpayers Against 187, but denies bias in daily news coverage of the measure. Coverage has been unusually heavy in most Spanish-language media outlets because of the strong interest many Latino immigrants have in the initiative." [end excerpts]

From "Prop. 187 Losing Latino Support Majority of Mexican Americans now oppose anti-immigration measure," by Susan Ferriss Special to The Free Press (San Francisco)

http://www.azteca.net/aztec/immigrat/n5prop18.html

Note the Latino "news" reporting network gave money and had "no bias." Note that the racist group "The Race" (La Raza) "educated" the masses. It wasn't just them it was all Democrat "news"papers and, if you read the article, it was also Republicans. To wit, "William Bennett and Jack Kemp came out strongly against it last month. Earlier this month, Florida GOP gubernatorial candidate Jeb Bush -- son of ex-President George Bush -- also criticized Prop. 187."

Forty percent of California voters that showed up were there just to vote for prop 187. Twenty-five to thirty percent of Americans of Hispanic origin voted for it. It won big time but Gov. Davis refused to continue Gov. Wilson's appeals. Instead Davis arranged for mediation among opponents of Prop 187. That killed it. Or did it..

Prop 187 is back. Signatures are being gathered now for Nov., 2004. This time it says the state must follow federal law prohibiting non-citizens here ILLEGALLY from having certain benefits and ILLEGALS must be reported to immigration authorities.

The only thing standing between subsistence and starvation in Mexico, and much of Central America, is the money sent home to needy families by hard working men and women in the United States who tend our gardens, wash our dishes and clean our floors. It is not American workers who they are putting out of jobs, it is American robots. The alternative to their low wage work is not American labor but machines.

The United States needs the skills, energy, savvy and willingness to work hard of our illegal immigrants. They are illegal only because our laws have been nativist and short-sighted. Now Bush is setting them right.

Morris, I bet, knows many of the corrupt, criminal ruling class elites in the cesspool of corruption called Mexico. They are the real reason for subsistence and starvation.

They are illegal only because our laws have been nativist....

Hmm, Morris like many posters here who scream Racist! Anti-immigrant! Bigot! Xenophobe! has a little too much Jesse Jackson in him.

If Morris is right then Mexican politicians like California Democrat Party leader Art Torres are right when they say that we are seeing the "last gasp of white America."

12 posted on 01/15/2004 8:18:18 AM PST by WilliamofCarmichael
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To: cricket
HISPANICS: KEY TO GOP'S FUTURE

I couldn't disagree more strongly. INDIVIDUALS ARE THE KEY TO GOP'S FUTURE. Once the GOP heads down the demoncRAT's "group rights," and "group benefits" road, the GOP is toast. Nobody can lie, cheat, and pander to groups as well as the dishonest demoncRATs. The demoncRATs used to keep their power by giveaways to groups. They are loosing power and offices quickly. People are realizing that individual rights are the proper, and Constitutional, way to go.

13 posted on 01/15/2004 8:19:21 AM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: mgist
"It breaks my heart to see dissparaging generalizations made against a "natural Republican constituency".

Agree; what people do not differentiate are the core values; the work ethic of the people who come into our country.

Of course, not all. . .but many, many of these people whether from Mexico, Brazil or Peru etal; share our vision for the future of America; share the values that made our country great.

They are fleeing the experience and hardship resulting from the very politics that the Democrat-Left would impose upon our country.

They know the difference. More than we can say about many here.

14 posted on 01/15/2004 8:23:17 AM PST by cricket
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To: cricket
This is a losing horse, IMO.
15 posted on 01/15/2004 8:24:09 AM PST by riri
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird
People are realizing that individual rights are the proper, and Constitutional, way to go.

When you are not in a vulnerable situation, you are free to act as an individual. Many of these people are scared and their livelyhoods are at stake. They will migrate to anything that offers support. Example, The threat of Clinton is what made Freerepublic so popular. There is a reason grassroots efforts come together. People have a cause. We either offer a compassionate solution or the Democrats will pretend to embrace them and turn them against us for years to come. And will all be wondering why the Republican party has been lost.

16 posted on 01/15/2004 8:25:53 AM PST by mgist
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To: cricket
They know the difference. More than we can say about many here.

Exactly, people who think all immigrants are trash, haven't seen Jerry Springer. Sometimes I think the exact opposite is true.

17 posted on 01/15/2004 8:27:40 AM PST by mgist
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To: cricket
"A worthy idea, but becomes no more than a soundbite really when it comes down to the practical implementation."
Not to rain on your parade but if we can secure the border in South Korea we can sure secure the borders to Mexico and Canada. And anyone who tells you different hasn't spent a day in combat. In fact, if GWB wants to know how to secure the borders he should ask his buddy Fox how he secures the border with Guatemala. And with the cost of 40 billion dollars that illegal immigrants cost us yearly I can guarantee you that I could secure those borders in a heartbeat with those funds. And until the borders are secured; there is no "war on terrorism", there is no "war on drugs" and there is definitely no "homeland security." Point, Game, Set, Match! Semper Fi, Kelly
18 posted on 01/15/2004 8:31:05 AM PST by kellynla ("C" 1/5 1st Mar. Div. U.S.M.C. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi!)
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To: mgist
Memo to Buchanan:
It looks more likely that a coalition of immigrants, other minorities and bleeding heart Liberals which, when taken together, could add up to a majority, might actually deport anglos instead of the other way around. They will be aided by the Democrat Party, other Leftist Parties, and the perpetually disgruntled on the Right who want to fragment Conservatives into the Republican, Libertarian, Constitution, and other assorted Parties.
19 posted on 01/15/2004 8:33:27 AM PST by Consort
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To: mgist
There is a reason grassroots efforts come together. People have a cause.

The only cause people have nowadays is "give me freebies." Nobody in this country is hurting. If you want proof go to any third world country and see what hurting is actually like. Here we say hurting is someone earning $20,000/year, while still having cable TV, two cars, and still getting thousands of dollars transfered to himself from me, via taxes. DemoncRATs have fallen from power because they run strictly on pandering to the "gimme" causes... Free health care... Free drugs... free days off work if your dog is sick... etc.

20 posted on 01/15/2004 8:35:33 AM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: DustyMoment
I can't vouch for the Hispanics in Florida but I can definitely vouch for the Hispanics in CA. You have to differentiate between Hispanic-Americans and illegal immigrants. Hispanic-Americans who are predominantly Mexican-American citizens in CA who are conservative, pro-life and pro-family Catholics. The Hispanic-Americans are hard working, patriotic tax-paying citizens. Those Hispanic-American citiizens are just as much against GWB's amnesty plan as the majority of non-Hispanic-Americans.
21 posted on 01/15/2004 8:40:36 AM PST by kellynla ("C" 1/5 1st Mar. Div. U.S.M.C. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi!)
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird
"Nobody can lie, cheat, and pander to groups as well as the dishonest demoncRATs. The demoncRATs used to keep their power by giveaways to groups. They are loosing power and offices quickly. People are realizing that individual rights are the proper, and Constitutional, way to go."

Agree that no one can do more harm to our country than the Demonrats and that they are relentless in their pursuit to do just that.

Repubs have to reach out and show these people that we in fact share core values; rather than allowing the 'Left' to succeed in their corrupting of another population.

A challenge we can and must meet; and one with a great payoff for our Country.

The Democrat/Left, in truth, would rather these people compete only as 'illegals' where their power as a group is only one of dependent disenfranchisement.

22 posted on 01/15/2004 8:50:52 AM PST by cricket
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
but what the hey, two per cent of them will vote for him.

Heck, he already got about 40% of the Hispanic vote in 2000. What do you mean 2%? Bush got something like 8-10% of the Black vote. Try breathing some fresh air.

23 posted on 01/15/2004 8:55:58 AM PST by Dave S
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To: manfromlamancha; DustyMoment
because they are primary beneficiaries of all the government goodies"

You have any stats or are you just "puting that out there"?

Of course he doesnt. Sounds like he's just jealous someone other than himself is sucking on the government tit.

24 posted on 01/15/2004 8:58:24 AM PST by Dave S
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To: kellynla
I'll concede that we are both generalizing and revert my previous comments to apply only to illegal immigrants. There are a lot of fine Hispanics in this country who work hard, pay their taxes and support the American way of life. My intent was not to impugn them and, by being less careful with with terminology, I inadvertently did.

I don't care for lawbreakers, and that's what illegal immigrants are. They have not earned citizenship in this country because they broke our laws and don't deserve Bush's amnesty.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!!

:-)
25 posted on 01/15/2004 9:00:03 AM PST by DustyMoment (Repeal CFR NOW!!)
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird
I couldn't disagree more strongly. INDIVIDUALS ARE THE KEY TO GOP'S FUTURE

Which individuals???? Any politician has to target his efforts. Do you suggest that we spend just as much per individual attempting to convince gay college professors in states like Massachusetts and Vermont as in attracting middle class residents in battle ground states like Ohio and Pennsylvania? Learn basic marketing before you come up with up such dawdle. GOP is not talking about becoming panderers like the Dems, we are talking about not going out of our way to present bigots like Tancredo as the face of the Republican Party.

26 posted on 01/15/2004 9:05:55 AM PST by Dave S
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To: DustyMoment
"I don't care for lawbreakers, and that's what illegal immigrants are. They have not earned citizenship in this country because they broke our laws and don't deserve Bush's amnesty.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!!"

Well if you've read any of my posts you would know thatI am 100% with you on the issue of illegals. Deport the illegals and secure the boders. There is no substitute! And I am glad that you have recognized the difference in the two groups.
27 posted on 01/15/2004 9:08:18 AM PST by kellynla ("C" 1/5 1st Mar. Div. U.S.M.C. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi!)
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To: cricket
PRESIDENT Bush's im- migration/amnesty proposal will probably be remembered in history as the idea that saved a political party. By taking the lead in extending the benefits of legal protections to more than 10 million illegal immigrants now living in the United States, Bush has taken a bold and dramatic step to avert the extinction of his own party.

-----------------------------

I'm not interested in saving a political party so it can be a continuing playground for incompetent eternal rich high school kids like Bush. I'm concerned about the future of the nation. Bringing in loads of 10,000,000 immigrants to stuff ballot boxes isn't going to do much to improve this country.

The best thing to do to save the Republican party would be to send the Bushs back to Kinnebunkport and relace them with mature men of seriousness.

28 posted on 01/15/2004 9:09:38 AM PST by RLK
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To: mgist
Watch Mexican tv sometime --- they have shows that are equivalent to Jerry Springer there. No shortage of morons in any culture. Besides --- when you watch Jerry Springer you can see there are Americans who need low-skilled jobs --- you really don't want certain kinds handed an RN license to take care of you in a hospital.
29 posted on 01/15/2004 9:12:52 AM PST by FITZ
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To: cricket
All these pundits [including Bush] got it so wrong.

The Hispanics aren't going to become Dimocrat or Republican. Their alliegance will remain with Mexico and issues such as the defacto reclaiming of the Southwest for Mexico.
30 posted on 01/15/2004 9:26:09 AM PST by citizen (Write-in Tom Tancredo President 2004!)
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To: cricket
Given the volume of Mexicans already here and the acceleration due to curerent polocies - no doubt true that any and every party will have to cater to hispanics first.

Probably why there is metered quotas on immigration.

To help create stability and balance.
31 posted on 01/15/2004 9:52:10 AM PST by Kay Soze (“The Bush immigration plan is heavily dependent on enforcement agencies we don't have”- WFBuckley)
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To: *immigrant_list; A Navy Vet; Lion Den Dan; Free the USA; Libertarianize the GOP; madfly; B4Ranch; ..
ping
32 posted on 01/15/2004 9:55:21 AM PST by gubamyster
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To: cricket
Do not think we are close to extinction; but there are too many wrongs' in this situation of illegals that need to be righted. It is time for a dramatic shift of policy here that lends itself to the more positive winds of change.

There will also be another shift - Christians away from the Republican party. People are now starting to wake up to the deception, i.e. that republicans are conservative and represent traditional values.

Check out this website for enlightenment on the deception:

www.bushrevealed.com

33 posted on 01/15/2004 9:58:05 AM PST by exmarine ( sic semper tyrannis)
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To: RLK
I'm not interested in saving a political party so it can be a continuing playground for incompetent eternal rich high school kids like Bush. I'm concerned about the future of the nation. Bringing in loads of 10,000,000 immigrants to stuff ballot boxes isn't going to do much to improve this country.

The best thing to do to save the Republican party would be to send the Bushs back to Kinnebunkport and relace them with mature men of seriousness.

Here! Here!

34 posted on 01/15/2004 10:00:39 AM PST by exmarine ( sic semper tyrannis)
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To: cricket
Who cares about a political party aside from the election at hand? I would like to know where the Plymouth car went. Seems like a car company would have more permanence than a political party. What's the warranty on an elected candidate? Six years or six political junkets, whichever comes first? In five years both Rs and Ds could be gone and forgotten, bank accounts depleted, nothing left at HQ but some partly used cans of banner paint.
35 posted on 01/15/2004 10:08:43 AM PST by RightWhale (How many technological objections will be raised?)
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To: gubamyster
Quizá Presidente Bush de Eeuu sabe lo que él hace a fin de cuentas. Si nuestro destino está en las manos de hispanos, entonces yo obtendré a bordo temprano y haré mis postes del futuro en la República Libre en el español.

Viva Presidente Bush!
36 posted on 01/15/2004 10:28:20 AM PST by Barnacle (A Human Shield against the onslaught of Leftist tripe.)
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To: Dave S; manfromlamancha; DustyMoment
You have any stats or are you just "puting that out there"?

Try the links at this post

Or the chart at this post

37 posted on 01/15/2004 10:34:15 AM PST by gubamyster
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To: cricket
Apart from the politics of the issue, the merits also dictate the Bush initiative. America has 4 percent of the world's population but 25 percent of its wealth. It is incumbent on us to open our doors to those who seek upward mobility.

Did it ever occur to Dick that we're this wealthy because the rest of the 3rd world DOESN'T live here? Maybe he'll be pleased when we're 15% of the population and have 15% of the wealth. He just strikes me as that kind of guy.

38 posted on 01/15/2004 10:38:39 AM PST by Deport Billary
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To: Deport Billary
Maybe he'll be pleased when we're 15% of the population and have 15% of the wealth. He just strikes me as that kind of guy.

-----------------------

This is called Christian equality.

39 posted on 01/15/2004 10:47:30 AM PST by RLK
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To: gubamyster
Who is Nicholas Stix and why should I put any more credibility in what he says than what you say? Did he sing with Tommy Shaw and the others in the rock group, Styxx?
40 posted on 01/15/2004 10:49:45 AM PST by Dave S
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To: joesnuffy
Shame on all Americans who lie down and accept this outrage from Washington.

Agree. BUMP

41 posted on 01/15/2004 10:50:23 AM PST by janetgreen
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To: Deport Billary
"Did it ever occur to Dick that we're this wealthy because the rest of the 3rd world DOESN'T live here?" ???
42 posted on 01/15/2004 10:55:02 AM PST by cricket
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To: exmarine
"There will also be another shift - Christians away from the Republican party. People are now starting to wake up to the deception, i.e. that republicans are conservative and represent traditional values. "

Have not 'gone there' but read about this group this morning.

Seems some Christians are working themselves into a 'jihad' mode. We surely do not need 'extreme thinking' Christians to muddy the political waters; but do not think they have much collective credibility .

43 posted on 01/15/2004 10:59:04 AM PST by cricket
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To: Dave S
Who is Nicholas Stix and why should I put any more credibility in what he says than what you say? Did he sing with Tommy Shaw and the others in the rock group, Styxx?

Was I supposed to laugh at this?

You can choose to believe what you want. I just provided the stats. I don't see any stats coming from your side to refute these numbers. I suppose you also chose to disbelieve the CIS stats, which if you read the study, are very well footnoted with gubmint numbers. But then again, I'm sure you have better info. If you do, please provide your links.

44 posted on 01/15/2004 10:59:04 AM PST by gubamyster
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To: exmarine
There will also be another shift - Christians away from the Republican party. People are now starting to wake up to the deception, i.e. that republicans are conservative and represent traditional values. Check out this website for enlightenment on the deception:

What a crock of fundamentalist bullcrap! If Bush didnt stop abortion yesterday and kill or lock up every queer in this country and throw away the key you kooks wouldnt be happy.

BTW,Your website still hasn't corrected the false rumour about Bush inviting Ozzie Osbourne to the White House for dinner. You damn fools, he was invited by Fox News to a White House Press charity function, not held at the White House by the way. So intolerant of others but so loose with the "facts" when they they can be used to bash Bush.

45 posted on 01/15/2004 11:00:40 AM PST by Dave S
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To: gubamyster
You can choose to believe what you want. I just provided the stats. I don't see any stats coming from your side to refute these numbers. I suppose you also chose to disbelieve the CIS stats, which if you read the study, are very well footnoted with gubmint numbers.

I didnt see any stats. I wonder if you know what the word means. If James Carville was to throw out a number and say Bush was responsible for the deaths of 50,000 Americans because of some environmental decision, would you call that a stat? I dont know what you are referring to about CIS? What is CIS and why should I care?

46 posted on 01/15/2004 11:03:51 AM PST by Dave S
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To: Dave S
I didnt see any stats.

Obviously you didn't read the links at the posts but instead merely responded. Maybe if you did a little research rather and read studies and reports regarding the cost of illegal immigration, then you may have an opinion based upon something other than emotions.

I dont know what you are referring to about CIS? What is CIS and why should I care?

This again proves you did not read the links that I provided to facts researched by The Center for Immigration Studies. If you really wanted to be informed on the subject rather than react emotionally, then you should care to read their well-researched studies.

47 posted on 01/15/2004 11:14:47 AM PST by gubamyster
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To: Dave S
If you want to name call, you will be held accountable. Keep it up! I didn't see any defense from you for the litany of liberal policies and statements made by Bush. All you can do is insult, which is the last resort of people with no effective argument.
48 posted on 01/15/2004 11:18:17 AM PST by exmarine ( sic semper tyrannis)
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To: cricket
Seems some Christians are working themselves into a 'jihad' mode. We surely do not need 'extreme thinking' Christians to muddy the political waters; but do not think they have much collective credibility .

I see, anyone who hold Bush accountable for his liberal actions is EXTREME? heh? Far Right maybe? KKK? Lunatic fringe? Spare me. Just address the facts about Bush ...if you can! Is it true that Bush praised a Gay church? Is it true that he fed Taiwan to the Chinese dogs (so much for Freedom)? Is it true that he expanded govt. at a clip that a democrat can only admire? Is it true that he equated Allah with Jesus Christ? Is it true that he is tepid on pro-family agenda as respected conservative groups are saying? Is it true that he signed unconstitutional bills like the Patriot Act and CFR? Is it true that he support removal of teh 10 commandments monument? Well? If you can't argue substance, then don't bother answering.

49 posted on 01/15/2004 11:27:12 AM PST by exmarine ( sic semper tyrannis)
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To: mgist; cricket
"As Catholic voters, who take their religion seriously, Hispanics are a natural Republican constituency."

Look what Mexico's Catholic bishops had to say about Bush's new immigration proposal.

http://www.el-universal.com.mx/pls/impreso/noticia.html?id_nota=2753&tabla=miami
50 posted on 01/15/2004 11:28:47 AM PST by texastoo (a "has-been" Republican)
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