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25% of Pakistani Illegal Aliens Deported Themselves since 2001 - Facts against the Bush Amnesty
January 15th, 2003 | Sabertooth

Posted on 01/15/2004 10:10:31 AM PST by Sabertooth

In the wake of President Bush’s “not an Amnesty” Amnesty proposal to legalize millions of Illegal Aliens under the cover of a “guest worker” program, the argument has surfaced that we as Americans have no choice but to pursue this Amnesty, because the only alternatives would be the current status quo, or “deport them all and build a wall” police-state measures.

I’ve long held that draconian measures are unnecessary to solve the Illegal Alien problem. Recently I posted Eighteen Illegal Alien solutions that are better than any Amnesty, which outlined a number of quite reasonable measures that would encourage Illegal Aliens to deport themselves.

While it may seem self-evident that diligent enforcement of existing laws combined with a few new tactics results in a decrease in the targeted crime, many dig in their heels against the notion that Illegals would respond sensibly to the same utilitarian application of law enforcement.

Fortunately, we’ve had something of a test case on the idea, and the results are promising.

Following the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001, the Justice Department under Attorney General John Ashcroft targeted Illegal Aliens from certain Middle Eastern nations as a result of the War on Terror. Among those receiving increased scrutiny were Pakistanis.

As a result, according to the Pakistani Embassy, More that 15,000 Pakistani Illegals have left America since September 11th, 2001.

“Residual foreign born” the Census Bureau’s euphmism for Illegal Alien (does every federal agency have one?). Unfortnately, the Census 2000 Estimates of Residual Foreign Born does not include a specific estimate for the number of Pakistani Illegal Aliens in the United Sates at that time. The last available federal estimate is a 1996 INS report, which put the number of Pakistani Illegals at 41,000.

It’s a fair bet, given the laxity of enforcement of our immigration laws under President Clinton, that there were more Pakistani Illegals in the country five years later, at the time of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. We can be quite confident of some increase, given that by every other measure there was an increase of the Illegal Alien presence in the country over the same 1996 – 2001 time period.

If we assume an increase to 50,000 Pakistani Illegals, the 15,000 self-deportations reported by the Pakistani Embassy would represent 30% of the total.

Even if we assume 60,000, almost half-again more than the 41,000 Pakistani Illegals reported in 1996, those 15,000 self-deportations would represent a huge 25% of the total.

Keep in mind that returning to Pakistan requires a not inexpensive airline ticket, as well as a transoceanic and transcontinental flight.

Now, apply that conservative 25% self-deportation rate to DHS Secretary Tom Ridge’s recent estimate of 8 to 12 million Illegals currently in the country.

25% of 8 to 12 million would equal 2 to 3 million self-deportations of Illegal Aliens.

Isn’t that a better plan than President Bush’s current proposal to legalize these same Illegals?


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; US: Arizona; US: California; US: New Mexico; US: Texas; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: aliens; bushamnesty; illegalaliens; illegals; immigrantlist


1 posted on 01/15/2004 10:10:33 AM PST by Sabertooth
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To: CheneyChick; vikingchick; Victoria Delsoul; WIMom; kmiller1k; mhking; rdb3; Travis McGee; Shermy; ..





FYI


2 posted on 01/15/2004 10:12:00 AM PST by Sabertooth (Eighteen solutions better than any Amnesty - http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1053318/posts)
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To: *immigrant_list; A Navy Vet; Lion Den Dan; Free the USA; Libertarianize the GOP; madfly; B4Ranch; ..
ping
3 posted on 01/15/2004 10:12:25 AM PST by gubamyster
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To: Sabertooth
Amen. Even as a huge Bush supporter, I just don't get this one. Never will.
4 posted on 01/15/2004 10:13:49 AM PST by Gerasimov (Oh calm down ... it was a joke. **mostly**)
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To: Sabertooth
Regardless of the spin the President puts on this he WILL lose a significant number of votes if he insists on pushing this crap on us.

Someone on his staff should wake him up to the fact that the American people don't want this crap.
5 posted on 01/15/2004 10:19:02 AM PST by Bikers4Bush (Bush and Co. are quickly convincing me that the Constitution Party is our only hope.)
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To: Sabertooth
Your soltion is the best I have seen anywhere on the net.
6 posted on 01/15/2004 10:19:08 AM PST by international american
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To: Sabertooth
I read your 18 suggestions, and think that they are all quite brilliant; and would love to see them implimented. I think your points are fair, workable and would serve in the best interests of American. However, I do take issue with this one.

Shut off new immigration to nations that offer dual citizenship. Disqualify current immigrants from those nations from future American citizenship.

As you may (or may not) be aware, America is almost unique in that we allow non-citizens to own land and houses. There are people here, who work hard and pay taxes and own businesses (raise families, go to chruch, blah, blah, blah), yet have dual citizenships. If they renounce their dual citizenship status, they forfeit land from thier home country that have been in their family for generations. So, they will have a choice; forfeit their family's farm, businesses, home, and lands or leave America. That is unfair.

For example, I work with an engineer from India who is married to an American woman and is raising two children. His family owns considerable amounts of land in India. He is here legally, works hard, has bought a home and is legally pursuing the dual citizenship registration. He pays taxes like anyone else, he just gets to pay both US taxes, as well as taxes on his assets in India as well.

7 posted on 01/15/2004 10:22:33 AM PST by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Sabertooth
You and I are thinking along the same lines. My plan says take what you have and leave or if we catch you, you'll go without anything but the clothes on your back!

"The National Population Council reported that 9.9 million Mexicans call America home and that more than 7.82 million of those - or 79 percent - do not have U.S. citizenship. It did not break down how many had legal residence papers."

"According to a RoperASW poll from last year, 83 percent of Americans support mandatory detention and forfeiture of property for illegal immigrants, followed by deportation."

I'm one of the 83%.

If the President Bush or Tom Ridge would announce that in six months they will be paying a $50 per head bounty for each illegal alien on American soil there would be a mad rush for the borders.

A policeman in a car costs the average city about $200 an hour. Helicopters cost at least $2000 an hour with the ground crews. What is the full cost of a teacher per hour? $140.00 or there about.

If we could get illegal aliens to turn each other in, just the ones trying to slip through the net, (I know thousands would attempt it) we would save billions in law enforcement, welfare programs, unemployment, medical care, job training and schools the first year.

Do all this under Executive Order and tell the Courts to back off. This is national security!

Any employer who has employed an illegal alien more than five months from the announcement date will be fined $5000 per employee. One month later enforcement begins. This will give employers 5 months to shed the illegals and hire legally papered actual American citizens.

Then on the announced date, start in a state such as Oklahoma. Well centered, not overly populated and clean the state out. This would give Homeland, INS and Border Patrol time to install their co-agents in various court houses around the country to verify a persons paperwork, i.e.. birth certificates, hospital records, etc.

Go state to state from the epicenter sweeping out the criminals who have successfully avoided suspicion. They already had 5 months to get out, hanging around to test the system carries a SEVERE penalty. They won't be able to say they weren't warned.

Divide a state into quadrants depending on population per square mile., First arrest those whose names were turn in for the bounty. Then others suspected by local law agencies. When arrests slow down, open an adjoining quadrant.

Get caught after the selected dated and the result would be every foreign national who is not in America legally would forfeit all their belongings (houses, cars, bank accounts, etc.) and be deported within 24 hours. These forfeited belongings would then be given to local churches for distribution to the needy in that community. Another cost saver!

This enforcement would apply to illegals from every country in the world, not just Mexico.

Imagine the number of Chinese who would be taking the ship home with everything in the house, new cars, you name it would be on those ships. The thousands of Canadians who decided the USA was better than Canada would be again headed North.

How many schools could be closed? How many hospitals and state paid housing tracts? How many welfare offices? How many planned jail enlargements could be stopped for lack of need?

How many state and federal employees would find out that they have the time to actually give good service to their American customers?

Oh yes, it would be an economic shocker in the amount of taxes that could be reduced or used to actually improve something needed for American citizens, instead of illegal foreigners.

Want an approximate number of the population drop? Try 50 million+ with the majority over 30 years of age, having been illegal residents of America for over ten years.

I've always wondered how many folks are on Medicare that don't deserve it. I'll bet that would save a big chuink of money that could be used for American war veterans and citizens health problems.

Just imagine the frantic squealing from our politicians thinking of the lost votes and contributions. That would be a sideshow worth watching!

Scan the whole page for good reading!
Conservative Debate Handbook

8 posted on 01/15/2004 10:27:14 AM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: Sabertooth
deport the other 75%
9 posted on 01/15/2004 10:28:17 AM PST by petercooper (DEAN = Democrats Experiencing Another Nightmare)
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To: Sabertooth
While it may seem self-evident that diligent enforcement of existing laws combined with a few new tactics results in a decrease in the targeted crime, many dig in their heels against the notion that Illegals would respond sensibly to the same utilitarian application of law enforcement.

That is the same argument New York socialists used for years, pre-Giuliani, to argue against enforcing the law aginst street criminals. Then, when law enforcement under Giuliani showed some success, the socialists just shitfed their grounds to the claim that the street criminals WEREN'T street criminals, BECAUSE the majority of them were black (and 90% were black or Hispanic), and so it was racist to enforce the law. (If you criticize the logic, Sabe, just remember that it ain't mine.)

10 posted on 01/15/2004 10:29:59 AM PST by mrustow
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To: Sabertooth
Following the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001, the Justice Department under Attorney General John Ashcroft targeted Illegal Aliens from certain Middle Eastern nations as a result of the War on Terror. Among those receiving increased scrutiny were Pakistanis.

As a result, according to the Pakistani Embassy, More that 15,000 Pakistani Illegals have left America since September 11th, 2001.

Amazing isn't it? When they know they have to get out, they DO!

Your proposals - and I went off to read the linked threads - are the best I've read anywhere. I only wish that the President and his advisors had come up with something even close to approaching what you have put forth.

Bravo zulu!

11 posted on 01/15/2004 11:13:48 AM PST by TruthNtegrity (I refuse to call candidates for President "Democratic" as they are NOT. They are Democrats.)
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To: Sabertooth
You do your 'homework' so well.......

Be nice to have someone in the 'media' report these numbers.

It's absurd for GWB & Co. to try to convince the public that enforcement of our immigration laws is not "workable", & that "rewards" are the only solution.

btw.....Have you seen Ridge's latest statement?? He continues to convince me, he is not the man to head our HSD.....Does he think 'the plan' is going to end drug traffickers too??, & that they wouldn't smuggle terrorists also, if the price was right?? Looks like he thinks 'the plan' will also end the phony ID business.....Next he'll say 'the plan' will end all crimes, I guess.

"If you can engage in the trafficking of illegal aliens, you can engage in the trafficking of terrorists," Ridge said. "It (the plan) basically puts (traffickers) out of business because human smugglers and fraudulent documents won't do you any good. In the long run, that dries up networks that terrorists have used in other countries and conceivably have used here."
12 posted on 01/15/2004 11:20:28 AM PST by txdoda ("Navy-brat")
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To: Sabertooth
Most illegal aliens swill self deport if:
13 posted on 01/15/2004 11:46:36 AM PST by dennisw (“We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way.” - Toby Keith)
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To: Sabertooth
The WSJ editorial board weeps at this news.
14 posted on 01/15/2004 12:04:08 PM PST by junta
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To: Hodar
Gotta disagree with you on dual citizenship. Most dual citizens are not, truly, equally loyal to both states. They have one nation to which they are loyal, and one that is a "flag of convenience."

The US risks having its citizenship become a flag of convenience for Mexicans as it already has done for some south asians and many Israelis. Dual Citizenship means somebody is fundamentally disloyal -- to one or the other.

It is not unreasonable to expect a man to pick one nation and deal with the disadvantages of his choice, as well as enjoy the benefits thereof.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F
15 posted on 01/15/2004 1:22:28 PM PST by Criminal Number 18F
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To: Sabertooth; Pro-Bush; FairOpinion; FoxFang; FITZ; moehoward; Nea Wood; Joe Hadenuf; sangoo; ...
BumPing!
16 posted on 01/15/2004 6:04:25 PM PST by JustPiper (Register Independent and Write-In Tancredo for March !!!!)
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To: Gerasimov
A FReeper's Guide To Immigration Reform

"What remains to be seen is if this country has the capacity to accommodate, and assimilate, an unending wave of mass immigration ¯ because failure to do so will result in a balkanized, fragmented, strife-torn and dysfunctional America."

Federation for American Immigration Reform - FAIR

~ Take the FReeper Immigration Reform Poll ~

17 posted on 01/15/2004 6:11:38 PM PST by Happy2BMe (Liberty does not tolerate lawlessness and a borderless nation will not prevail.)
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To: Sabertooth
Good post bump.
18 posted on 01/15/2004 6:18:21 PM PST by dagnabbit (Tell Bush where to put his Amnesty and Global Labor Pool for American Jobs- Vote Tancredo in Primary)
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To: Criminal Number 18F
To Illegal alien supporters or Americans who don't see anything wrong with America being under massive foreigner invasion.

I have this strange affliction that I suffer from. It's called PATRIOTISM.

I would prefer not to have dual citizenship foreigners living or working in America because I don't want anyone to have divided loyalties when it involves patriotism.

Which country is more important to you. America or your home country? If you have to make choices between your home country and America, then as far as I'm concerned make the choice to go home.

Your foreign co-worker who does not want American citizenship is coming here to suck the sweet juices out of America and then take the fruits of his labor back to his/her homeland.

America shouldn't be a country for the "convenience" of others. Too many of our citizens fought and died to make it what it is.

These people come here because their homeland isn't as productive and free as America is.

Countries that require citizenship to own property are not too business smart. Would I invest millions of dollars to start a company in a foreign country on my own? Possibly, I would if the business climate was right and I could locate competent employees.

If I have to share my business control with a foreign businessman because I am not a citizen of that country, hmmmmmm, now I would hesitate.

I am the one putting up my cash and he's putting forth his citizenship. Big Deal!

Of course, I could open my company up to shareholders, then it's not my cash anymore. So, if I lose everything it's no great loss to me personally. Just a dent in my reputation. That's what we see in international companies. The Board of Directors doesn't have a personal investment in how the company does. There is no personal loss if the company fails in a foreign country.

This policy of non-enforcement of immigration laws in America has an even more destructive effect to our communities. In many immigrant communities, assimilation into gangs is winning against assimilation into our civic culture.

The Bush administration has allowed this matricula consular card, over the strong protest of the FBI. This allow the free movement of illegal aliens across America.

I am not a social engineer but I do recognize the steps that our local, state and federal politicians have been taking to destroy the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

"America is the one place where it is taboo to be proud of your culture, which is ironic given America's record as the freest, most prosperous and most benevolent society in world history."

Being proud of our culture is what made America the country of first choice for immigration. Mexico and many other South American countries are encouraging their criminals and lower uneducated class to emmigrate to America.

Will the continued invasion of these people do anything to guarantee that America will remain the country of first choice?

19 posted on 01/15/2004 8:19:30 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: Jackie222
ping
20 posted on 01/15/2004 8:23:38 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: Sabertooth
It would be better but Bush's plan isn't to stop illegals (why would he repeat legistration that has shown repeatedly that the result is in increased illegal immigration) or does he even consider it. His plan is to increast immigration .. legal or otherwise.
21 posted on 01/15/2004 8:53:39 PM PST by Zipporah (Write inTancredo in 2004)
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To: junta
The WSJ editorial board weeps at this news.

Hardly. The Journal (which has long advocated open borders) is well aware of the phenomenom of Pakistanis fleeing America once the FBI announced its post-9/11 intention of interviewing non-citizens from countries that export terrorism.

Their response was to run a major article claiming discrimination and death-threats had driven Pakistanis from a Brooklyn neighborhood.

When the liberal soccer moms that instituted a post-9/11 Muslim outreach program through the neighborhood association and PTA protested the biased article, the reporter refused to consider their evidence or revisit the issue.

22 posted on 01/16/2004 8:51:31 AM PST by browardchad
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