Israeli Rabbis Hope to Search Vatican

Associated Press ^ | Jan. 15, 2004 | Gavin Rabinowitz

[Askel5]

Jesus did say he'd come "with a sword" but I can see where many Jews would have been disappointed in him as Messiah given the fact they actually are expecting a warrior of this world.

[Alouette]

I don't believe "Satan" is some guy in red underwear with horns and a pitchfork, but that nasty little voice inside each and every one of us that tries to tempt you into doing the wrong thing, whether it's commit murder, vote Democrat or eat that jelly doughnut. So yes, everyone has to be on guard against listening to that little voice.

[missyme]

Christianity would mean "nothing" if it wasn't rooted in Judiasm and had a vision by G-d for the Gentile world.

[Conservative4Ever]

Good post...I say, if it still is in existance...give it back..along with whatever else belongs in Jerusalem.

Red

[missyme]

I agree with you, but as "both" Beleivers in the Book of "Genesis" Satan was an angel that was basically kicked out of heaven by G-d for his behaviour right?

So he is real by what scripture says in Genesis?

[eddiespaghetti]

They melted it down and made it into money, odds are.

I'd heard that the menorath from the temple had been taken away by the Vandals when they sacked Rome in 410 AD.

[Senator Pardek]

Besides that, Rome was sacked by the Goths in 410 and by the Vandals in 455...

But it was nullified by an "offsides" call.

[rmlew]

Do you think you will be deceived by "Satan" A wolf in sheep's clothing.
That does everything you are expecting?
There have been false messiahs in the past and there will be those in the future. These have ranged from the deluded lik Bar Kochba to the evil like Shabbatai Zvi.

[Verginius Rufus]

Besides that, Rome was sacked by the Goths in 410 and by the Vandals in 455...

But it was nullified by an "offsides" call.

That's a part of the story that is seldom told.

[yarddog]

I think I am finally beginning to understand what "chutzpah" means.

[missyme]

Again no dis-respect intended but that is not my question.

Do you beleive that you can be fooled by "Satan" who comes as everything your expecting? everything?

Or let me put it this way, if in your lifetime a leader who brings Peace the re-building of the temple is done the Jews have there homeland, if this happens in your life time will you have any any thought at all this might be the Anti-Christ "Satan" or will you not even question that in your mind.

[rmlew]

We are not occupying Arabia, periodically staling from the Kaba, settling Arabia with non-Muslims, imposing foreign "converted" leaders*,we are not imposing crushing taxes on the poor of those countries.
*Antipater, Herod, and Herod's decendants were descended from Iudumeans (Edomites) forced to convert by Simeon II. Antipater's grandfather had been a pagan cheiftan. Considering that the Herodians failed to follow Jewish law, I don't consider them to be Jews and neither did most Israelite Judeans.

[Antoninus]

Uh, it's unlikely that the Vatican has the original Menorah. If it was still in Rome by 410 AD, it was likely carried off by Alaric and his Goths, who took an enormous treasure away with them after their sack of the city. If I remember him history correctly, Alaric buried his treasure in a riverbed and it has never been found to this day.

If the menorah happened to remain after Alaric left, I highly doubt it survived much worse sack by the Vandals in 455. If the Vandals got their hands on it, it was probably melted down.

[Brad’s Gramma]

Ping-a-ling

[Alouette]

Satan was an angel that was basically kicked out of heaven by G-d for his behaviour right?

Where in Genesis does it say this? This is not part of Jewish belief.

Our view of "Satan" is this is the tempter, the accuser and the "Malach Hamavet" (Angel of Death) but could not be an opponent or an enemy of G-D because that would imply dualism.

[JoeFromSidney]

It's simply inconceivable that the Vatican would be hiding it. If they had it, they would say so. And in the present climate of opinion, they would return it to the Jews, although it's not altogether obvious who it would be returned to

When I visited the Naval Museum in Istanbul, I saw a banner that had been captured from the Turkish fleet at the Battle of Lepanto. The accompanying description said it had been returned by the Vatican shortly before I saw it, as a gesture of good will to the Turks on the part of Pope John Paul II.

[rmlew]

Again no dis-respect intended but that is not my question.
Please take no offense at my response.

Do you beleive that you can be fooled by "Satan" who comes as everything your expecting? everything?
1. There is a Satan in Judaism. However, he is a the prosecutor/entraper of man, not an enemy of God.
http://www.beingjewish.com/basics/satan.html
2. Yes, I do fear the possibilty that a false Messiah may come and leave nothing but death and destruction in his path.
Now let me ask you a question. Do you ever fear that you are praying to a false Messiah who committed blaspheme and cannot be teh "Son of God"/God if God's word is true?
I doubt it.

Or let me put it this way, if in your lifetime a leader who brings Peace the re-building of the temple is done the Jews have there homeland, if this happens in your life time will you have any any thought at all this might be the Anti-Christ "Satan" or will you not even question that in your mind.
Only if he breaks the Law, tries to supercede it, or proclames himself a diety.

[Antoninus]

It's hard to believe the early Church would have inherited (with no fanfare or mention by historians) a relic like that from the Romans who'd persecuted them for centuries.

Spoils of war were traditionally stored in pagan temples such as the Temple of Vesta, Mars Ultor, or Jupiter Optimus Maximus in the various Roman fora. The Church began appropriating temples and cleansing them of their idols after the reign of Constantine in the 4th century, but I don't recall ever reading that the Church took control of any of the big temples in the Forum before Alaric arrived in 410.

My guess is that the Menorah was spirited away either by Alaric and hidden somewhere (still to be found??), or by Gaiseric and his Vandals in AD 455. If the latter, it probably exists in the form of Byzantine coinage from the 6th century.

[William Terrell]

Also, why would the Romans keep the menorah and not melt it down? It's not like they valued the item as a religious icon.

That makes the most sense. Though probably if God wanted to perserve an artifact, I reckon He would.

[missyme]

Then what was the serpent in the Garden of Eden?