Freeper Legal advice needed (Vanity)

[Wombat101]

Freeper needs advice on potential lawsuit...

[Wombat101]

Can anyone tell me if there is a case here?

Let's say a corporation (which shall remain nameless) causes and employee great amounts of mental stress, leading him/her to some sort of mental breakdown. What does the plaintiff have to prove in order to bring the case to a meaningful conclusion in court?

Facts: - Said management of said corporation instituted an unwritten 50-hour work week rule, and required employees to adhere to it by threatening to withhold raises and bonuses from employees. These employees (systems programmers and such) routinely worked 60 or more hours a week, and were being asked for more.

- Management required employees to be on call 24/7/365, equipping them with pagers, and computers/software to enable work from home during non-business hours, and despite having a policy of telecommuting, refused an employee the ability to work from home during normal business hours when a medical condition made it difficult to get to the office.

- When said employee went to his management and explained his medical condition, he was told "To get it fixed or take it elsewhere".

- When management did, in fact, make some sort of accomodation for this employee, it was not to allow him to work from home, but instead, transfer him/her to a different office. The reason behind said transfer, quote: "if you go beserk and kill someone it wouldn't be my problem".

- A manager once told said employee (in front of witnesses) "You'll never amount to much more than you are now".

- A manager once told said employee, while handing over a paycheck "If I were you, I'd save as much of that as I could". Said manager was also drunk at the time.

- Said employee, who lives on an island, was told in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks in New York, that if he/she did not get to work, "it would be remembered". Transportation to/from the island was shut down/cut off during the ensuing lockdown in New York.

- Management routinely created a hostile working enviornment by using the threat of witheld raises, optional bonuses, and bad economic conditions that restricted the availability of obtaining work elsewhere to extract more time, effort or acquiescnce from employees.

- When said employee finally snapped, and took a medical leave, company policy seemed oriented towards forcing the employee back to work -- withholding of pay and benefits.

- While awaiting approval for long-term disability, said employee was denied a paycheck per policy, but still expected to make payments towards medical benefits, which subsumed most of the employee's state disability benefit.

- When said employee, during medical leave, asked for an emergency withdrawl of 401(k) funds to cover expenses, he was informed that it would require a stack of paperwork and five (5) weeks to process the claim, which could still be rejected, to sort out.

- Employee attempted to resign two (2) times and resignation was not accepted, beacuse the firm could not recall any employee ever resigning while on medical leave. As a result, the FIRM started the Long-term disability process on the employee's behalf, without his permission, probably for fear of a lawsuit later on (they did not tell me that...).

Any Freeper lawyers out there care to tell me if there's a case here?

[PurVirgo]

ping - not a lawyer, but I'm interested to see what one would have to say

[bcoffey]

Before you know if there's a case, you have to know what you want from it.

As for me, I'd have left after your Fact #1.

[Wombat101]

If it was my lawsuit, I probably wouldn't have hired you anyway. Your first instinct was "What do you want?"...

[Wombat101]

Continuing: that was a ridiculous question because;

1. Justice, if there's any to be had, must be served...
2. That can be constuedd as you beginning to count your fees BEFORE you do any actual work...
3. It was rude...

[IncPen]

In the state in which I live I believe the limit for damages in a hostile workplace suit is $300,000. That may be a federal limit

I was once advised by a very expensive lawyer, when I had a situation not unlike yours, that the best course of action was to leave and forget it


"You may win $300k," he said. "But they'll destroy you before they hand it over"

I took his advice.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

Facts: - Said management of said corporation instituted an unwritten 50-hour work week rule, and required employees to adhere to it by threatening to withhold raises and bonuses from employees. These employees (systems programmers and such) routinely worked 60 or more hours a week, and were being asked for more.

- Management required employees to be on call 24/7/365, equipping them with pagers, and computers/software to enable work from home during non-business hours, and despite having a policy of telecommuting, refused an employee the ability to work from home during normal business hours when a medical condition made it difficult to get to the office.

This is SOP in companies today. That is why Unions were formed. As abusive as Unions are, they came into being to counteract ABUSES in the workplace.

Business is out of control. And it doesn't look to improve anytime soon. Both sides of the aisle are bought and paid for by Business interests.

The only solution is to work towards a Third Party to take the control away from the Business cabal.

[RLK]

The employee should have quit, day one. Having said that, Sue. Given a good lawyer, you'll win.

[Peace will be here soon]

Sounds like most programmer work environments. Just making room for the "Blue Card" invasion.

[ZOTnot]

The key to succeeding may be in the Americans with Disabilities Act. (ADA) What was the medical condition? (which can be pursued vigorously?...) Or possibly the federal Medical Family Leave Act.

[Wombat101]

The employee tried and the resignation was refused...

[ErnBatavia]

If it was my lawsuit, I probably wouldn't have hired you anyway.

Me neither...because you sound like a professional victim.

[sirshackleton]

Resignation isn't something left up to the employer, it's left to the employee. Unless you're under some kind of contract (which should stipulate work hours, bonuses, pay, whatever), you're resignation is not something that hinges on an employers acceptance. It's you saying "As of [date], you'll have a position to fill. Have a nice day." An employer can't tell you "No...you have to continue working for me!"

[Cicero]

I'm not a lawyer, but I would GUESS that there's no grounds for a lawsuit here. It might depend on the state where it took place, but in general most judges or juries would probably say, "If you don't like the working conditions, you can always get another job."

It cuts both ways. Bosses who mistreat employees usually lose their best workers and as a result get inferior results from those willing to stay. Or they provoke their workers into joining a union.

Maybe a minority employee or a woman might get somewhere, but I doubt it, without specific proof of discrimination.

[Wombat101]

The CONDITIONS were:

1. Post traumatic stress disorder caused by the 9/11 attacks..
2. Anxiety disorder, same cause...
3. Severe agoraphobia (fear of crowds), same cause...
4. Employee was sickened by an enviornment where 3,000 dead people three blocks away was acceptible because a profit was still made...
5. Employee was further sickened by posted photographs of managers on the building roof, with a smoking hole in the background, celebrating the "triumph of 9/11" (i.e. pulling in a profit). Said managers stood on the roof posing like a winning football team or a pact of big-game hunters.
6. A promotional video that floated aroud claiming "we were the only firm to turn a profit on 9/11, because our disaster recovery plan worked flawlessly". The employee was part of the Disaster Recovery Team, and KNOWS for a fact the plan did not work. It was merely a matter of luck thatthe building did not need to be evacuated.

[Wissa]

The employee tried and the resignation was refused..

I thought slavery was abolished in this country some time ago.

Well, you learn something new every day!

[annyokie]

Get another job and move on with your life.

[Az Joe]

Is the illness covered by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)? If it is, maybe you have a case.

In any event, be prepared to interview a lot of attorneys.

Then, be prepared to answer extremely long, far reaching, under oath, written interrogatories.

Then, be prepared to sit through hours and hours of very long, far reaching, under oath, oral depositions.

Then, be prepared to wait a long time to see the inside of a courtroom.

Then be prepared to have your former coworkers testify for and against you in extremely long court proceedings.

The process itself my be worse than the original employment situation was and may make you feel much worse.

Maybe, at any point in the above process they would settle.

Good luck. It may work.

[Dog Gone]

The only solution is to work towards a Third Party to take the control away from the Business cabal.

I'd recommend that you check out the Communist Party. I think they're in agreement with you.

[bcoffey]

If it was my lawsuit, I probably wouldn't have hired you anyway. Your first instinct was "What do you want?"...

Perhaps I should have worded it, "What do you want to see happen?" I'm disappointed you jumped to the conclusion that this is about $$.

When I give lectures on problem solving, I tell my audience they must always ask two mental questions before embarking:

• How do you know if you're right/correct?
• How do you know when you're done?

If you can't answer those two questions satisfactorily, it will be a waste of time to start.

Oh well.

[MileHi]

Answer, get a new job. Or are you looking for the lottery?

[RLK]

The employee tried and the resignation was refused...

------------------------

Ever hear of provisions against involuntary servitude? There's no way to keep a person on a job short of kidnapping or illegal imprisonment.

[Pahuanui]

I'd recommend that you check out the Communist Party. I think they're in agreement with you.

I'd recommend that you pull your head out.

It should clear up that comprehension issue you have, as soon as you Qtip your ears.

[ZOTnot]

Sounds much like PTSD to me. Would you agree, damages are in order? If not, who provides the legal relief?

[Wombat101]

Guess again..This employee worked himself up the corporate ladder, beginning as a computer operator and ending up as a systems programmer, with a stop in a management position along the way. He sacrificed holidays, weekends, and free time to build a career and never asked for anything other than his just rewards. What he needed, atthe time, was a bit of compassion, and instead got corporate ass covering and bureaucracy, rumors circulated about him, and a mess of frustration disguised as "the firm doing right by him". Professional victim no, a poor schlub who devoted 10 years to his company and got treated like a dog, yes.

P.S. You sound like a professional moron....

[Who dat?]

The employee tried and the resignation was refused...

Ha. That's pretty funny.

A resignation is a resignation. It cannot be refused. I suppose it could be "refused" if it is contingent on the company doing other things on behalf of that employee...

Otherwise, a resignation is notice that you will no longer be available to fill a position after (month)/(day)/(year) *PERIOD*

No further communication required or solicited.

For instance:

Dear Sirs,

As of 2/15/2004 I will no longer be available to fill my position as ________.

Thank you,

_______

The end. No refusal solicited or possible. Done it myself a dozen+ times. Don't expect a going-away present though.

[Dog Gone]

Oh, you think business is bad, too. I'm very impressed with your argument.

[ikka]

No advice to offer, but best of luck and hope your health returns, from one Freeper to another!

[redheadtoo]

For a law suit you have to prove two things. #1. Were you damaged by the actions of another? #2. Was this a deliberate wrongful act? If the answer is yes to both of these questions then you have a law suit.

But there is a third unofficial question to ask. Will you win enough money to make this suit worth your time and effort? Consult a good attorney and he will answer these questions for you.

[tubebender]

If you have a labor complaint in Calif the first stop is the State Labor Commission, then Cal OSHA, then the ADA police. It sounds like they are treating you like a contract worker. Do you pay all of your own taxes, expenses and med insurance etc?

[Pahuanui]

Oh, you think business is bad, too.

No, I think people who bring in the Communist Party when it has no bearing on a post or topic is a damned idiot. In this case, that means you.

I'm very impressed with your argument.

I haven't made the argument that you attribute to me.

But then, you're stupid, and you are incapable of seeing that.

[Wombat101]

Yes to all of the above...Resignation was tendered twice and refused (unofficially) because, quote: "We don;t know what to do...No one has ever quit on us while on medical leave before..."

[kcar]

Wuss. The door swings both ways. Try the door knob more vigorously next time before turning to a lawyer. A lawyer should be a recourse for an actual violation of your constitutional rights. Unless you were handcuffed, you're presumed to be an adult that can rise above "mental intimidation" and act for yourself. Worse case, company's more demanding than you think is reasonable, bolt out the door at 5:00 p.m. with a ta-ta to all.

[sirshackleton]

Yup, it happens...devote x number of years of your life and get shat upon at some point.

Look, I commiserate, but at some point one needs to move on. How much emotional energy is this person expending going through all of this, when he could just give the boss the finger (and from the sound of it, that would be an awfully sweet way to quit this joint) and ride off into the sunset? It sounds like he has a good resume, and is marketable. Why rot away at some job like that?

I'm not a judge/lawyer, so I don't know the nuances of the law, but my first question would be "Why did you stay?"...and the whole "They didn't accept the resignation" thing would not fly. They can't force you to work for them.

[sirshackleton]

Yes to all of the above...Resignation was tendered twice and refused (unofficially) because, quote: "We don;t know what to do...No one has ever quit on us while on medical leave before..."

Sounds like it might be beneficial to them to earn some experience in those matters. In essence...that's THEIR problem, NOT "yours".

I would think that if you're on medical leave and you resign, you resign. That's it. Position is no longer filled. Hell, it wasn't filled anyway..."you" were on medical leave! Now they can go right and hire someone instead waiting for "you" to come back.

[Wombat101]

Knuckle dragger, I see...By that I mean a moron in a three-piece suit with an MBA (or equivalent "qualification"). The attitude definately identifies you as a manager type... When you're done casting aspersions upon good people you know nothing about, I'm sure Howard Dean has a Nazi Party card waiting with your name on it...

[Dog Gone]

Did you even read the post I responded to?

Do you agree with that post?

Which alternative party rails about a "business cabal"?

Why are you so defensive about communism?

Have you considered anger management control classes or medication?

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

Depends on what state probably. Said employee should not have a case. We all have free choice. Work somewhere else. Furthermore, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a written or unwritten 50 hr work week. What do you think this is, France? (of course, if you are hourly and meet the overtime rules, you are entitled to it).

[Texasforever]

ARRRG...when did so-called conservatives become such whiners?

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

How is this an abuse? If you don't like the company you work for, leave. Does anyone actually believe in a free market system anymore?

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

What do you mean it was refused? Just don't go in again.

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

Sounds like you work for scumbags. That doesn't mean you should be able to sue them. Just don't work for the scumbags anymore...

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

I find it very interesting that Eternal Warming wants more government intervention in the market place. What a Free Republic. </sarcasm> Why are you even here?

[ErnBatavia]

P.S. You sound like a professional moron....

OK...you win; I'm such a 'professional moron' that I got to quit my "big bucks" job two years ago (in my very early fifties) and move to the most beautiful part of the country to enjoy life while I'm young and healthy enough to realize what I'm doing.

Yeah, I'm the moron....and I never, ever during my high stress, high pressure bidness life pissed, moaned, whined and cried like "your friend". I was a big boy, ya see. Being a realist and a fighter instead of a whiner can pay off, if you don't wet your pants while you're getting there, like "your friend" appears to be doing.

Be happy.

[razorback-bert]

So, stay home and collect paychecks or get another job and double dip.

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

You may have been screwed. But for goodness sake, you were paid your salary and you worked. If you didn't like it, you should have left. I can think of no reason why your employer owes you money.

[Wombat101]

Would you want to leave a job where you had a good paycheck, good benefits and had 10 years invested?

The problem is not that the company itself was a terrible place to work, but that the MANAGERS that ran it were such terrible people, especially when an employee came to them and TOLD them he/she was having a documented, provable, medical problem, and were a) unconcerned and b) oblivious to the fact that adding additional stress to their employees was detrimental. All that was important was deadlines, bottom lines, etc.

This person would have stayed with this firm for as long as was humanly possible. The problem was that he got ill and the people he worked for were determined to make life even more difficult. If he didn't know any better, he would think they actually FORCED him to leave by taking advantge of his condition, so that they would not have to deal with the potentially messy results of firing a mental patient.

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

Yes, if you work in the peoples Republic of Kalifornia, you are certainly entitled to wealth redistribution. Those evil corporations...

[Baynative]

I've been through plenty of these. You have to present well documented proof of allegations with very specific time, date and name details. If the EEOC sees merit which takes about 4 months then their letter of acknowledgment will bring lawyers to your cause - often for contingency fees of about 40-50%.

If plaintiff can prove any sort of minority status the case is very strong. If plaintiff is white EEOC will normally not waste paper on a memo.

[Wombat101]

Did anyone ask if there was compensation to be had? I don't recall that being said anywhere...Jumping to conclusions, I see...