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Sensational News: Joan of Arc was not executed. She died at 57
Pravda ^ | 1/17/04 | RIA "Novosti"

Posted on 01/17/2004 12:51:31 PM PST by paltz

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Sensational News: Joan of Arc was not executed. She died at 57
01/17/2004 16:25

A Ukrainian anthropologist Sergey Gorbenko claims that Joan of Arc was not burned at the stake. She lived till 57.

He was able to reach such conclusion after examining several skulls of the French royal family of Ludwig XI at the Notre Dame de Cleri Cathedral near Orleans, reports Ukrainian newspaper "Uryadovy cur"r" ("The Government's courier").

In the course of his studies, the anthropologist revealed that a skull which used to be considered to belong to the king himself, in fact belongs to a woman. Authentic king"s skull turned out to be previously considered skull of his wife Charlotte.

Later, Gorbenko discovered that the King's wife has died at 38. The skull he examined however belonged to a 55-57 year-old-woman. After carefully examining the remains, correspondence of the royal family members, numerous engravings and chronics, it appeared obvious that "the woman whose skull had been mistaken for that of King Ludwig XI for 100 years, turned out to be Joan of Arc herself," tells Gorbenko.

Ukrainian anthropologist was haunted by doubts regarding a sixteen-year-old peasant girl's ability to wear heavy knight's amour. Some of the survived letters of Joan of Arc indicate that she was extremely knowledgeable person, thus disproving a preconceived notion of being a mere peasant from Lorraine.

As it was later determined, the original Joan of Arc was in fact Margarita d"Champdiver, later Valua. She was am illegitimate child of King Karl VI and his mistress Odetta d'Champdiver. The king raised his daughter as a true warrior for self-defense, since both of his sons had been defeated>

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in a fight for the throne by Louis' supporters. In order to avenge himself, Karl VI has acknowledged his son in law Henry V of Lancaster as his successor. Majority of French nobleman accepted King"s proposal lawful and did not resist the Englishmen.

Karl VII did not have any legitimate rights for the throne. He had to use God"s ideology and protection in a fight for power. It was during this time that a new legend of a virgin who is destined to save France is being created. This role was assigned to Margarita d'Champdiver.

After numerous victories, Joan of Arc's began to annoy Margarita and Karl VII. Such constant female's leadership was becoming too dangerous for the army. Besides, margarita was planning to start a family. So a precise plan had been developed according to which Joan d'Arc was supposed to disappear for good. However, Englishmen took another woman captive. Instead of burning d'Champdiver at stake, a different woman had been executed.

Several facts indicate Joan d'Arc was buried and not burnt. For instance, the woman's (pseudo Joan d'Arc) face was cloaked when she was burnt at the stake on May 30, 1431. There also exists a burial tomb where one can clearly see the virgin's seal.

Ukrainian anthropologist claims, "I did not discover anything that could discredit Joan of Arc. She was a magnificent leader, a true believer in God, a loyal wife and a kind mother. Can these facts sabotage her sainthood?"

Gorbenko is certain that "Papa and Vatican are entitled to canonize Joan of Arc and no scientific discoveries can disprove this."



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: biclighter; frenchstakeburners; godsgravesglyphs; joanofarc; onstrike; pravda

1 posted on 01/17/2004 12:51:31 PM PST by paltz
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To: paltz
In Russian, 'Pravda' means 'truth'.

But we all know how truthful Pravda has been in the past.

I'm highly skeptical of this story, to say the least.

EV
2 posted on 01/17/2004 12:56:39 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: paltz
Sensational News: Joan of Arc was not executed. She died at 57

How long before Joan of Arc is hooked into "The DaVinci Code"?
3 posted on 01/17/2004 12:58:03 PM PST by VOA
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To: paltz
the original Joan of Arc was in fact Margarita d"Champdiver, later Valua. She was am illegitimate child of King Karl VI and his mistress Odetta d'Champdiver

Actually she was the daughter of Helen Thomas, who is now 600 years old, as you can plainly see from recent pictures.

4 posted on 01/17/2004 12:58:44 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: EternalVigilance
But we all know how truthful Pravda has been in the past.

Well, if the employment situation in American journalism is anything like
it is in academic science (influx of lots of USSR/Eastern European workers)...
I tend to think that best of the Cold-War-Era journalists of Pravda (and Isvestia)
are now chief editors at The NY Times, Los Angeles Times, Washington Post,
and lots of mainstream news outlets.

OK, a few of them are probably at The Guardian and the BBC! Not to mention CNN.
5 posted on 01/17/2004 1:01:18 PM PST by VOA
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To: paltz
This is BS.

We all know that she is still alive and Chiraq keeps her in one of his torture dungeons.

6 posted on 01/17/2004 1:02:15 PM PST by mvonfr
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To: paltz
A lot of conjecture for a bit of evidence.
7 posted on 01/17/2004 1:05:26 PM PST by unspun (The uncontextualized life is not worth living. | I'm not "Unspun w/ AnnaZ" but I appreciate.)
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To: VOA
How long before Joan of Arc is hooked into "The DaVinci Code"?

That is exactly what I was thinking.

8 posted on 01/17/2004 1:05:31 PM PST by mware
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To: paltz
But what about the girl with x-ray vision? That sound interesting.
9 posted on 01/17/2004 1:10:54 PM PST by savedbygrace
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To: savedbygrace
sound = sounds
10 posted on 01/17/2004 1:11:11 PM PST by savedbygrace
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To: mware; VOA
me too! i was going to say, how do we know she wasn't the Holy Grail.
11 posted on 01/17/2004 1:12:14 PM PST by xsmommy
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To: paltz
Oh, my God!!!! This should be in Breaking News!! (/sarcasm)
12 posted on 01/17/2004 1:28:47 PM PST by TommyDale
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To: Joan_of_Argghh!
Arrgh!
13 posted on 01/17/2004 2:00:36 PM PST by martin_fierro (Caught you looking)
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To: paltz
This just in ...

Joan of Arc is still dead!
14 posted on 01/17/2004 2:01:59 PM PST by fnord (Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence)
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To: paltz

Hopefully, this means Hollywood will stop producing really bad movies about her life.


15 posted on 01/17/2004 2:04:55 PM PST by Fintan (Proudly annoying people since 1950...)
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To: paltz
Sigh. It's grant application time once again.
16 posted on 01/17/2004 2:15:41 PM PST by Grut
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To: paltz
Interesting. Could be an old story though. Simply attack some established belief with a sort of pseudo-science and wait for the outrage- and possibly the dollars to roll in. Still, maybe a gentle scam, nothing hateful.

At this time permission is being sought to exhume a person who claimed to be Billy the Kid.

Quite possibly that hardly one on Gods green earth, figures anthing but that the kid was cut down by Garratt at Fort Sumner. Follow the money?. Lots of fun for those who like to rack the brains though. I know that Hillaire Belloc, author long gone, wrote an essay on the propensity of intellectual university types, to offer opposite versions of established facts- having fun checking my old used books. LOL.

17 posted on 01/17/2004 2:16:12 PM PST by Peter Libra
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To: paltz
I'm sure as the 'research' progresses, they'll find that Joan of Arc was a lesbian, too.

...and a vegetarian.

...who favored universal health care.

18 posted on 01/17/2004 2:25:51 PM PST by Lizavetta (Savage is right - extreme liberalism is a mental disorder.)
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To: Fintan
This is rot!

Joan of Arc's life was EXTREMELY well chronicled.

She NEVER wore a knights "heavy "amour"", rather she wore a kit MADE FOR HER ALONE (and it was White, not dark, as in that depiction). "Arc" or D'Arc was a refrence to her parentage, it wasn't some title as it seems to be regarded in this story.

While Joan of Arc was very smart she was ILLITERATE! In the "brains" department she pretty much Beatach-slapped Bishop Cauchon, her MAIN tormentor, but she was not schooled at all. In fact you can read the trial today and be impressed and amused with her easy dismissal of Cauchon--a man and politician who was schooled to the nth degree!!!!

Where she came from and her history there WAS NEVER IN DOUBT!

This whole story reads like a lame attempt at humor.
19 posted on 01/17/2004 2:26:33 PM PST by TalBlack ("Tal, no song means anything without someone else...")
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To: paltz
I thought that it was generally accepted that Joan wasn't executed. I have heard (and read) that for at least 40 years. Of course, Robin Hood didn't exist either.
20 posted on 01/17/2004 2:31:38 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: paltz
Mark Twain loved his book,"Joan of Arc", of all the books he had ever written. He did very little research in writing his books but spent 12 years doing so on her biography, and he reached his conclusion about Joan's unique place in history only after studying accounts by both sides, the French who might have slanted matters to favor her and the English who might have wished to justify executing her. His quote,"I have constantly used five French sources and five English ones and I think no telling historical nugget in them has escaped me. Twain's reference to the importance he gave to history in writing his book indicates that he was more serious about the historical Joan than about his creative fictional inventiveness. A very good read but also a remarkably accurate biography of the life and mission of Joan of Arc which will put to rest the various claims made by the anthropologist referred to in this post.
21 posted on 01/17/2004 3:22:49 PM PST by Sneer
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To: paltz
So Joan of Arc outsourced her own burning at the stake? She was cleverer than we thought.

The names have passed through a German version at some point. Ludwig XI = Louis XI (reigned 1461-1483); Karl VI = Charles VI (1380-1422); Karl VII = Charles VII (1422-1461). Charles VII is the king Joan helped; I've read that there is some doubt that he was really the son of Charles VI (his own mother supposedly said that he was not).

22 posted on 01/17/2004 3:25:36 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: VOA
How long before Joan of Arc is hooked into "The DaVinci Code"?

Just when you're convinced that it's Mary Magdelene on the right!
Now I'm gonna have to read the book all over again...then make a trip to the Louvre.....ahhh crap...that's in France...isn't it.

23 posted on 01/17/2004 3:28:37 PM PST by Focault's Pendulum
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To: Cicero
Actually she was the daughter of Helen Thomas...

Close. She was the great-granddaughter of Helen Thomas.

24 posted on 01/17/2004 3:53:25 PM PST by Jeff Chandler (2004: The Neocons vs. The Neocoms)
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To: paltz
Is The Sory Of Lady Godiva True?
25 posted on 01/17/2004 3:57:21 PM PST by blam
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 240B; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

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Note: this topic is from January 17, 2004.

Thanks paltz. Amazing what remains to be rediscovered here on FR. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

·Dogpile · Archaeologica · Mirabilis.ca · LiveScience · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
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26 posted on 06/28/2010 4:54:58 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: paltz

Oh, for the days when the only place you saw this kind of drivel was in Prava.


27 posted on 06/28/2010 5:25:37 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: paltz

Oh, for the days when the only place you saw this kind of drivel was in Prava.


28 posted on 06/28/2010 5:28:18 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: SunkenCiv
The sentence was pronounced and carried out in the Old Market public square in Rouen in front of a huge crowd. The English then burned the body and spread the ashes to avoid there being any relics.

But this guy finds an old skull he can't identify so, heck, maybe it was all faked 'cause that skull just has to be Joan. So it was all fake, you know, like the Moon landing.

29 posted on 06/28/2010 5:53:51 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-353422.html

http://www.stjoan-center.com/Trials/

dead link:
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:xbKNeh-e5CkJ:www.hup.harvard.edu/pdf/HOBTRI_excerpt.pdf+&hl=en


30 posted on 06/28/2010 7:43:35 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/dec/17/france.alexduvalsmith
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/joan-of-arc-portrait-found-1159726.html
http://andreaskluth.org/2010/05/29/the-wrong-heroine-joan-of-arc/
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-592974.html
http://csis.pace.edu/grendel/WS2/research1.html
http://law.hamline.edu/files/pdfs/jlr/pdfs/Tiefenbrun.pdf


31 posted on 06/28/2010 7:51:20 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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http://www.stjoan-center.com/topics/armor.html


32 posted on 06/28/2010 7:52:42 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: Fintan

You mean you didn’t like her in bill & ted’s excellent adventure? ;)


33 posted on 06/28/2010 8:25:31 PM PDT by Trillian
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To: SunkenCiv

http://www.johnspeedie.com/healy/algoof.wav


34 posted on 06/28/2010 8:33:55 PM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: SunkenCiv
Quite true. Very detailed notes, almost a transcript, were kept of the trial of Joan by two notaries, who compared their work.

What they don't/can't document but has always been rumored is that after Joan repented and had been forgiven she was not released from irons and her guards repeatedly assaulted and/or raped her until she relapsed to wearing mens' clothing, which triggered the subsequent proceeding leading to the death sentence.

Human beings are capable of great cruelty. They are also capable of believing amazing things, as this fellow documents. :-))

35 posted on 06/29/2010 9:19:30 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Jeff Chandler

How dare you demean Joan of Arc by alleging she is related to Helen Thomas.


36 posted on 06/29/2010 1:15:45 PM PDT by conservativebuckeye
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