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Bush Offers Migrant Plan Conservatives Can Support
Arizona Republic ^ | January 18, 2004 | Jeff Flake

Posted on 01/17/2004 6:54:51 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest

President Bush's immigration initiative has sparked a great deal of discussion across the country. Perhaps the most interesting debate centers on whether the president, in announcing the initiative, has embraced conservative principles or abandoned them. I believe a temporary worker program is consistent with conservative principles, and here's why.

First, conservatives value national security, and the status quo encourages anything but national security. The presence of 8 million to 12 million illegal aliens within the confines of our borders should prompt the type of reform the president has suggested.

President Bush's proposal will ensure smarter border enforcement by redirecting resources for border security and the war on terrorism away from the dishwashers and landscapers who are trying to cross the border illegally and toward the smugglers and terrorists who are attempting to cross the border for purposes far more nefarious than filling jobs that American workers are not taking.

We can try to tighten up border enforcement even more than we already have (we've already increased spending on border enforcement six-fold over the past 20 years), but as long as the United States offers foreign workers more opportunity for work than their home countries do, people will risk their lives to cross the border.

According to Steven Camarota of the Center for Immigration Studies, "A real effort to control the border with Mexico would require perhaps 20,000 agents and the development of a system of formidable fences and other barriers along those parts of the border used for illegal crossings."

It should also be noted that some 40 percent of those illegally in the United States first entered the country legally and then overstayed their visas. Even if we did manage to seal the border from illegal crossings, the problem would still be with us. Clearly, we can't solve this problem through border enforcement alone.

A temporary worker program, coupled with serious workplace enforcement, would bring those who are in the shadows out into the open. Temporary workers would be registered. We would finally know who they are, how long they've been here, and when they must return to their home country or change their status.

Again, the "carrot" of a temporary worker program must be coupled with the "stick" of workplace enforcement. With a reasonable legal avenue available, workers should have no excuse for not utilizing it and employers should have no excuse for hiring those who do not.

The latter point is important. Conservatives respect the law. Our current immigration laws, everyone will agree, are so convoluted and out of touch with how people actually organize their lives that it does not foster respect for the law. If we want the law to be enforced, we need to have a law that can realistically be enforced given our labor needs. Which brings me to another point.

Conservatives recognize that America has a need for labor that Americans are unable or unwilling to fill. This is the case today, and will increasingly be the case in years to come as our workforce becomes older and better educated. Now, some will dispute this, noting that "there are some 10 million unemployed in this country, and some 10 million illegal aliens - do the math!"

This math adds up only if you accept that it is the federal government's role, for example, to persuade an unemployed fisherman in Maine to take a job as a landscaper in Phoenix. Or to move an unemployed schoolteacher in Indiana to the lettuce fields in Yuma. The former Soviet Union tried and failed with this type of economic planning for decades. Cuba is still trying. Neither are examples that conservatives should seek to emulate.

Third, conservatives are compassionate, despite what liberals will tell you. The fact that hundreds of illegal aliens, many of whom are women and children, die in the desert each year should compel us to action. Because a temporary worker program would allow workers to enter and exit the country through border checkpoints, the incentive to risk one's life in the desert would be diminished considerably. Under the current situation, those illegally crossing the border in search of work must make the calculation of whether to endure long periods, even years, without seeing their families, or to attempt to bring their families with them. The latter choice often leads to deadly consequences.

Finally, we conservatives are called conservatives because we want to "conserve" practices and principles that have withstood the test of time. There is little about the status quo in immigration policy that is worth conserving. Bush recognizes this. We conservatives, whether we agree with every detail of his plan or not, should applaud him for it.


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; guest; illegal; immigrants; immigration; jeffflake; reform; workers
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: Marak
"If businesses cannot remain solvent without illegal labor, then we have problems other than one of immigration.

If the minimum wage is too high, lower it. "

===

BINGO.

My point exactly. Take away welfare from strong, healthy people, and thus take away the incentive to lay about, instead of working, eliminate minimum wage, and in a while there will be more Americans willing to do menial work, which they shun now, because it's easier to sit and collect welfare.
101 posted on 01/17/2004 10:25:25 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: kingu
And just to clarify -- If the illegal problem can't be solved in California, forget about any problem working. Other states might have problems, we have an epidemic. Something that might cure the ills in New Hampshire will only mean you're giving the people in California a new place to go.

Any solution must address California specifically. Yes, like many things, we're the cause of the nation's ills. We're infected, and we'll infect you too unless a cure is found. Any new federal laws must specifically counter all the junk that the RATs have put into place in this state.

Officers here can not inquire as to a person's immigration state until they've been convicted. The criminals can't be deported until after they've served their sentence, and the bus to the border best be on time, or the illegals are free to walk away. No welfare or hospital in the state can ask about someone's immigration status, nor can they inform the authorities if it is discovered through a credit check that the person is using false identification or an illegal.

We nuked the head RAT, but our legislature and courts are loaded with them. We've got vocal groups ready to march, protest and scream at the drop of a hat. If Mexico wins a soccer game, we get mini riots. The problem is here, and the solution best arrive soon.
102 posted on 01/17/2004 10:26:46 PM PST by kingu (Remember: Politicians and members of the press are going to read what you write today.)
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To: FairOpinion
[You are both making the very points, why Bush's guest worker program is a step in the right direction.] Wrong.

[Bush is addressing a serious problem, which existed and has been getting worse for the past 15 years.]
No Bush is not addressing a serious problem. Bush is playing politics with a serious problem. The past amnesty program showed that it was a failure by increasing illegal immigration. The problem has been getting worse becasue we refuse to address it, jsut as Bush is now refusing to address it.

[As for the cost, I guess you don't mind paying for all the lazy bums collecting welfare, just as long as they are citizens.] I have no idea where you are going with this. Do you?
103 posted on 01/17/2004 10:30:22 PM PST by Marak (Let me turn you on to Fantasy.)
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To: FairOpinion
I am all for that -- problem is the US courts, stuffed with liberals, who overturn any sensible measures voters try to pass, such as Prop. 187.

The problem with 187 type plans (and yes, they've cleaned up a lot of the errors in the new system) is that why should California have to pass this law, and what will be the results of it?

Let's say we actually pass an effective law here. The illegals will scatter across the country, doubling in size everywhere. Some state will feel sorry and an idiot RAT will stand up and say they'll give illegals safe harbor.

These things need to be established at the national level to apply to every state, and the states forced to follow them, because otherwise, we just move the illegal population.
104 posted on 01/17/2004 10:31:04 PM PST by kingu (Remember: Politicians and members of the press are going to read what you write today.)
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To: FairOpinion
"You are both making the very points, why Bush's guest worker program is a step in the right direction."

No it doesn't, it institutionalizes the problem. The solution is to bill Mexico for the services provided to their citizens.

Take it out of the money we give them for their exports to this country. If we did that, the Mexican government would stop the illegals before they got to the border. Problem solved for new immigrants... Then go after the employers of the illegals that are already here.
105 posted on 01/17/2004 10:31:32 PM PST by babygene (Viable after 87 trimesters)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
"Again, the "carrot" of a temporary worker program must be coupled with the "stick" of workplace enforcement. With a reasonable legal avenue available, workers should have no excuse for not utilizing it and employers should have no excuse for hiring those who do not. "

Wait a second .... that's my metaphor!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1059957/posts

106 posted on 01/17/2004 10:33:05 PM PST by WOSG (I don't want the GOP to become a circular firing squad and the Socialist Democrats a majority.)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
What a lie. Flake is a sell out on immigration and has been so for a long time. Must be those huge agribiz campaign contributions.
107 posted on 01/17/2004 10:35:37 PM PST by dennisw (“We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way.” - Toby Keith)
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To: babygene
No it doesn't, it institutionalizes the problem. The solution is to bill Mexico for the services provided to their citizens.

Ok, so we bill Mexico for the illegal aliens, Mexico tells us to suck dirt, and then what? We cut their foreign aid? Anyone care to look up how much aid we give Mexico each year? I guess the next step after that is to shut down NAFTA, which was supposed to help strengthen all three countries so that they wouldn't be coming here in the first place.

Strikes me as that is a quick way to go backward, and increase the number of illegals, rather than reduce them.
108 posted on 01/17/2004 10:35:54 PM PST by kingu (Remember: Politicians and members of the press are going to read what you write today.)
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To: kingu
"These things need to be established at the national level to apply to every state, "

==

I am all for that -- but where is the US Congress on this?

Do you think all those bleeding heart Dems would vote for a law to withhold welfare from illegal aliens?

We would have to elect a lot more Republicans to do that.
109 posted on 01/17/2004 10:36:03 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: kingu
[But how do you stop someone coming here through the border checkpoint itself?] Good question. Wish I had a good answer.

[and faking a license is FAR too easy.] Subcontractors here must be licensed at the county level. While I am sure there might be ways to get around it, eventually they would be outed.

[now I have to pay $40,000+ a year per illegal?] They are cost more than that already. You said they are coming here for the money. They don't want to spend a year in jail. Maybe we could make the inmates pick strawberries :)
110 posted on 01/17/2004 10:37:30 PM PST by Marak (Let me turn you on to Fantasy.)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
They need to slap hefty fines on employers and prosecute the touchy-feely organizations that aid and abet them as soon as they step across the border.
111 posted on 01/17/2004 10:37:53 PM PST by abigailsmybaby
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To: FairOpinion
[Some are trying to resurrect a different version of it.]

I hope they are successful. America cannot afford to care for the entire world. I sure wish their own countries would work to make their homelands a better place to live.
112 posted on 01/17/2004 10:39:12 PM PST by Marak (Let me turn you on to Fantasy.)
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To: kingu
"I guess the next step after that is to shut down NAFTA, which was supposed to help strengthen all three countries so that they wouldn't be coming here in the first place."

How was NAFTA going to strengthen the United States? It was a taxpayer givaway to Mexico, that is all.
113 posted on 01/17/2004 10:39:14 PM PST by babygene (Viable after 87 trimesters)
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To: Spiff
Flake is a good guy. How could he let himself get mixed up with the likes of Kolbe and McCain!?

Maybe you need to give the proposal another look. I don't expect everybody to think it will work, but there's nothing liberal about it. Not as I see it, not as Flake sees it. It's unfortunate it has to be couched in a bunch of third-way hooey, but that's salesmanship for you.

114 posted on 01/17/2004 10:41:56 PM PST by MattAMiller
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Comment #115 Removed by Moderator

To: seamole
it would expand the H1-B program which has already made work very difficult to find.

I dealt with the H1-B program for many years. That program DOES NOT ALLOW EMPLOYERS TO PAY A FOREIGN WORKER ON AN H1-B VISA LESS THAN THEIR NORMAL PAY SCALE OR BENEFITS FOR ANY JOB.

116 posted on 01/17/2004 10:52:24 PM PST by Texasforever
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To: FairOpinion
That is the WORST solution. You can't expect employers to be the cops for the INS. You are expecting for employers hiring minimum wage help to do a background investigation on these people, which would have a prohibitive cost.

Acutally I disagree here, you could provide it for free. Just provide instant checks on Social Security numbers. All you need is web page and a database.

117 posted on 01/17/2004 10:53:30 PM PST by MattAMiller
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To: FairOpinion
I am all for that -- but where is the US Congress on this?

Finally talking about it? A month ago, hardly anyone ways. Now every RAT presidential candidate has outed themselves.

Do you think all those bleeding heart Dems would vote for a law to withhold welfare from illegal aliens? We would have to elect a lot more Republicans to do that.

Last I looked, we have a Republican senate, house and president. All are supposedly looking at the issue, yet we've got people all over the place, dredging up wacko programs no one wanted before, and even the proposers of reasonable programs tracing all over the place.

Honestly, who the heck wants a guest worker. Do we suddenly have a shortage of people who want to come and live in this country and become citizens? Aren't there huge backlogs around the world of people?
118 posted on 01/17/2004 10:53:42 PM PST by kingu (Remember: Politicians and members of the press are going to read what you write today.)
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To: babygene
How was NAFTA going to strengthen the United States? It was a taxpayer givaway to Mexico, that is all.

Ahh, come on. NAFTA was a give away to corporations. The idea was somewhat sound - since corporations were looking overseas for production, we could aim them toward Mexico, hopefully improving their financial and political state so that the illegals would stop invading us. Canada would hopefully come along for the party as well.

What happened? Companies went even further abroad and congress couldn't bring themselves to put in import quotas that were needed because it'd hurt their largest contributors. Besides, the unions weren't complaining loud enough because they kept reaching into the service industries.

If Mexico's political and economic condition does not improve, we'll just keep getting people trying to hop the border. When I go shopping, I look for Made in USA first, and pray that I'm not supporting the sweat shops on Guam, then I'll look for made in Mexico or Canada. And nine times out of ten, after I can't find any of that, I'll end up with something made in China or Bangladesh.
119 posted on 01/17/2004 11:01:09 PM PST by kingu (Remember: Politicians and members of the press are going to read what you write today.)
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To: kingu
[Corporate farms, perhaps? Nahh, they use the guest worker program that we already have in place,] Actually there are plenty of illegals on the corporate farms here. They even are organized and give interviews to the newspapers.

Just as a follow up to what I was saying about the illegals giving interviews down here, check this out. Article in Tomorrow's Naples Daily News

120 posted on 01/17/2004 11:01:12 PM PST by Marak (Let me turn you on to Fantasy.)
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To: Marak
Just as a follow up to what I was saying about the illegals giving interviews down here

I'll hop over to that thread for my opinion on THAT type of thing.
121 posted on 01/17/2004 11:10:18 PM PST by kingu (Remember: Politicians and members of the press are going to read what you write today.)
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Comment #122 Removed by Moderator

To: Marak
No Bush is not addressing a serious problem. Bush is playing politics with a serious problem. The past amnesty program showed that it was a failure by increasing illegal immigration.

Nobody has said that simply granting illegals legal status will fix the problem. We've said that we have a way to fix the problem and we'll allow illegals to participate in it if they cooperate and that's not the centerpiece of this proposal.

123 posted on 01/17/2004 11:16:49 PM PST by MattAMiller
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To: seamole
Look deal with reality or don't even bother. I spent 30 years in engineering and 20 in upper management. We avoided H1B like the plague. They were the highest maintenance most expensive class of employee we dealt with. Keep it honest.
124 posted on 01/17/2004 11:18:32 PM PST by Texasforever
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To: Spiff
Except for a handful, I would imagine all of them in D.C. are dirty, bought, or buyable. What passes for rock ribbed conservative these days we considered liberal fifteen years ago.
125 posted on 01/17/2004 11:19:39 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: kingu
"How was NAFTA going to strengthen the United States? It was a taxpayer givaway to Mexico, that is all.

Ahh, come on. NAFTA was a give away to corporations. "

I repeat, how was this going to strenghen the United States?
126 posted on 01/17/2004 11:20:36 PM PST by babygene (Viable after 87 trimesters)
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To: babygene
I repeat, by improving Mexico's economy so that the illegals stop coming here. By improving Mexico's political system so we don't have a poor time bomb on our doorstep.
127 posted on 01/17/2004 11:24:49 PM PST by kingu (Remember: Politicians and members of the press are going to read what you write today.)
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Comment #128 Removed by Moderator

To: seamole
Or perhaps it isn't. You could read it another way, too.

Well jeez hopefully not. I have personal experience with the suckitude of the H1-B program. And it's possible this could be just as bad but on a grander scale. But we've had a guest worker program in the past without demolishing the middle class so I'm going to guess it's possible.

129 posted on 01/17/2004 11:36:39 PM PST by MattAMiller
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To: MattAMiller
[Nobody has said that simply granting illegals legal status will fix the problem. We've said that we have a way to fix the problem and we'll allow illegals to participate in it if they cooperate and that's not the centerpiece of this proposal.]

Okay let me get this straight. We have an immigration problem. We are going to pass laws to create a legal rememdy to this problem. A cornerstone of this legal rememdy is to ignore the illegal status of the participants? That is not correcting a problem. That is changing the definition of the problem so that it appears to go away.

We are currently incapable of enforcing our immigration laws, but this new plan guarantees that we will enforce those laws. Color me skeptical. Either we can enforce the laws or we cannot. If we can, enforcing them should be the first step in any new immigration plan.
130 posted on 01/17/2004 11:37:17 PM PST by Marak (Let me turn you on to Fantasy.)
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To: Marak
That is not correcting a problem. That is changing the definition of the problem so that it appears to go away.

No that is looking at the present situation and a possible re-evaluation of how to do things. I don't think this proposal will do anything at all to stop future illegal immigration. I don't think there is any remedy short of an "illegal immigration martial law" for the period of time it would take to actually round them up followed by militarizing the borders. That is not going to happen as bad as some may want it.

131 posted on 01/17/2004 11:46:34 PM PST by Texasforever
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Comment #132 Removed by Moderator

To: Marak
[As for the cost, I guess you don't mind paying for all the lazy bums collecting welfare, just as long as they are citizens.] I have no idea where you are going with this. Do you?

===

Americans shun menial labor. Hence there is a need for workers, who are willing to do that kind of work. Enter the illegal aliens, who are more than willing to do that kind of work at lower than minimum wage.

If we took away the incentive from Americans to lay about, instead of working -- because we are handing out welfare, maybe they would actually work, then there may not be as much demand for illegal aliens, as workers.

On another thread a few of us were sharing anecdotal and actualy well known info, that if you hire "an American" to clean up your back yard, or do menial work, he wants a lot of money, it takes him a long time and won't even do a decent job. You hire a Mexican legal or illegal, and the work is done fast and well, because they actually WORK.
133 posted on 01/17/2004 11:54:41 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: Texasforever
[I don't think there is any remedy short of an "illegal immigration martial law" ]

That is quite a pessimistic thought. You are really saying that we can't find any remedy that is palatable to the American public?

I would like to think we are more resourceful than that. There are reasons that people break the law. Most often it is to make more money than they can earn in their homeland. Our lack of enforcement of current immigration laws are obviously not a deterrent. So that suggests several rememdies.

Increase enforcement of our current laws to make it more expensive to come here, and make it so there is less chance that they will earn the desired dollars if they do make it here. If they cannot achieve their goals, they will not come.
134 posted on 01/17/2004 11:54:50 PM PST by Marak (Let me turn you on to Fantasy.)
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To: Marak
Increase enforcement of our current laws to make it more expensive to come here, and make it so there is less chance that they will earn the desired dollars if they do make it here. If they cannot achieve their goals, they will not come.

Very good. Now, if we can agree that the majority of illegal immigrants from south and central America are working in minimum wage level jobs and that once they register those employing them will have to at least meet that minimum standard as this proposal lays out then we have something to discuss and debate. The problem so far is not having anyway to determine who is legal and who is not.

135 posted on 01/18/2004 12:00:15 AM PST by Texasforever
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To: FairOpinion
[You hire a Mexican legal or illegal, and the work is done fast and well, because they actually WORK.]

I am not opposed to legal immigration. There are millions of people who would love to come here and would accept any work they could find. They would also be desireous of making America their new homeland. I would much prefer to see that happen than illegals sneaking across the border to take the money back home.

As for the whole welfare problem, that is another road to travel, and it is much longer than this one.
136 posted on 01/18/2004 12:01:52 AM PST by Marak (Let me turn you on to Fantasy.)
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To: Texasforever
Very good. Now, if we can agree that the majority of illegal immigrants from south and central America are working in minimum wage level jobs and that once they register those employing them will have to at least meet that minimum standard as this proposal lays out then we have something to discuss and debate. The problem so far is not having anyway to determine who is legal and who is not.

I don't know that I can agree as to the wages earned by illegals. I suspect that you might be right that they are minimal, but I read too many stories of illegals in construction work paying 20-40 per hour. There are also lawn services down here that pay exorbitant rates. Legal landscapers are going out of business because they are being undercut. But for the sake of argument, let's assume your statement is correct.

You state that the proposal calls for minimum wages. I read Bush's speech and did not see that in there. In fact, I remember thinking about whether they could get around minimum wages laws somehow. Correct me if I am wrong here.

You further assume that the illegals will register. I posted an article tonight from the Naples Daily News where the illegals talk about not registering. In fact, they kind of like the way it is with the exception of getting caught. Only a complete amnesty would get them to come out of the woods.

Another assumption is that everyone (workers and employers) will play by the new rules. Why should they? They don't now and we do nothing about it. I know that Bush promised strict enforcement in the future, but quite frankly I don't believe that either. There is no desire to enforce our immigration laws. We are told that it is not feasible to do so right now, but it will be in the future? I don't buy it. Let the government show they can enforce the laws first.

Think about this for a moment. If we truly need a guest a program, why not offer it only to those who are NOT here? You want to get enrolled, go back home and sign up. The reason: We can't enforce the laws we have now. We are hoping that the illegals will walk into the INS office and give themselves up. That is what this program is all about and the illegals are not that stupid.

137 posted on 01/18/2004 12:17:14 AM PST by Marak (Let me turn you on to Fantasy.)
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To: Southack
a far better solution than using force to militarily round up 8 million illegals, house them in temporary concentration camps, and eventually march them home in great masses like battlefield refugees.

It doesn't need to be carried out that way. You should read up on Operation Wetback which was implemented in 1954 to round up illegal aliens. We didn't have to physically round up all of the illegal aliens (most left voluntarily), we didn't house them in concentration camps, and we didn't march the illegal aliens home in great masses like battlefield refugees

138 posted on 01/18/2004 12:26:09 AM PST by usadave
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Comment #139 Removed by Moderator

To: Marak
You further assume that the illegals will register. I posted an article tonight from the Naples Daily News where the illegals talk about not registering. In fact, they kind of like the way it is with the exception of getting caught. Only a complete amnesty would get them to come out of the woods.

Thus my "pessimism" regarding the proposal. This is not a fix. I laid out the most draconian fix which is never going to happen but there is another one less draconian but also stands little chance of working.

The INS has a grand total of 2000 field agents to enforce the immigration laws over the entire country. Do the math 2000 divided into anywhere from 8 to 14 million depending who is publishing the numbers. The Feds could boost the number of field agent a hundred fold and still not make a dent. It is obvious that without the help of the State and local governments the Feds alone cannot make the difference. The problem is that the Bush administration has already ask for state cooperation and even after 911 almost to a man they told him to kiss off. The ugly truth is that these illegal aliens are not only tolerated by the states they are protected from the Feds. That is why I am pessimistic. That is why nothing effective will ever be done until the states themselves get involved.

140 posted on 01/18/2004 12:28:59 AM PST by Texasforever
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To: Texasforever
I agree with your assessment on manpower. Just think of the numer of speeding tickets that are issued daily in this country. If each cop nabbed one illegal the problem would be over.

I am not sure about the states getting in the way though. I remember reading that the INS and the state of Florida had agreed to allow the state to arrest illegals for immigration violations. I believe it was back in 2002. Sorry that I cannot remember the details better, but that is the key to the numbers problem. We have a large force of law officers already available. We need to use them.
141 posted on 01/18/2004 12:35:59 AM PST by Marak (Let me turn you on to Fantasy.)
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To: FairOpinion
In other words: make businesses close down or move to Mexico, because they couldn't stay in business. I guess you want to pay $20/lb for strawberries too.

Labor costs only account for about 10% of the retail price of produce at the grocery store.

142 posted on 01/18/2004 12:38:51 AM PST by usadave
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To: Marak
I am not speaking lightly here. Florida was the exception to a very defined rule and the fact that the governor of Florida is the President's brother makes that a poor gauge of state reaction.
143 posted on 01/18/2004 12:38:52 AM PST by Texasforever
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To: Texasforever
Who's rule is it? Is it the federal government telling the states not to, or the states refusing to?
144 posted on 01/18/2004 12:42:34 AM PST by Marak (Let me turn you on to Fantasy.)
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To: Marak
Is it the federal government telling the states not to, or the states refusing to?

The sates refusing to. Look up a thread entitled the "illegal immigration crime wave". It talks about LA and California. The thread was posted by the dump Bush crowd but it is a case study in the problem I have talked about. This is a problem that can never be solved without police state measures or the full cooperation of states whose economic health is largely built on cheap labor forgo that benefit and stop protecting those that are here illegally.

145 posted on 01/18/2004 12:48:40 AM PST by Texasforever
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To: Texasforever
Well the federal government has never been shy about telling the states what to do. They managed to get the 55 mph speed limit into effect. If they truly want to solve this problem, they can. That is the true problem, they don't really care to address it. It is easier to do some hocus pocus and say the problem no longer exists. Ten years down the road we can address it again.
146 posted on 01/18/2004 12:55:44 AM PST by Marak (Let me turn you on to Fantasy.)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
Bush Offers Migrant Plan Conservatives Can Support

After hearing President Bush's speech, do you (normally, typically, conservative, Bush supporting Freepers) approve of his immigration reform plan?

Yes - 21%

No - 67%

Undecided - 11%

There you have it, is that so difficult for them to comprehend?

147 posted on 01/18/2004 12:58:21 AM PST by lewislynn
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To: Marak
Now see? I laid out facts and you come back with emotion. The 55 MPH was a lot like illegal immigration, it was not enforceable. No one paid any attention to it and the Feds were not about to raise taxes to pay for state resources to enforce it. Nice try though.
148 posted on 01/18/2004 1:01:50 AM PST by Texasforever
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To: lewislynn
There you have it, is that so difficult for them to comprehend?

I voted no also. Now, in your opinion, what is the significance of that poll?

149 posted on 01/18/2004 1:04:00 AM PST by Texasforever
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To: Marak
N.Y.C., for but one example, has told the police, social workers, and teachers to NOT bother the illegals they find.

Without cities' and states' help/enforcement, the Feds can NOT do all that much.And YES, this is after 9/11 !

150 posted on 01/18/2004 1:09:21 AM PST by nopardons
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