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To: Marak
I truly believe going after the companies that hire illegals is the best approach. Dry up the labor market and make it more expensive to hire an illegal. Hit these employers with a fine of $100,000 for each illegal they hire.

I don't know where you live, but such a thing would be a joke in California. Ahh, yes, I could see the headlines now.. 'Mom and Pop restaurant shut down by heavy fine' I am sure, somewhere, there is a major corporation that has hired illegals, but such things would be rare. Sure, you might nail Taco Bell, but with so many companies now running credit checks on all their hires, they tend to catch illegals. When Jose Gonazalas' report comes back saying that Mrs. Marple has fair credit, the company declines to hire them.

Corporate farms, perhaps? Nahh, they use the guest worker program that we already have in place, even sending teams of people down into El Salvador and other dirt pits to sign up and hire people.

The places you'll really find them is in construction industries, independent contractor cleaning firms (like Wallyworld found out), clothing subcontractors (though their workers tend to be locked up) and the most likely place - employed by another illegal. They've got a huge market in landscaping.

I doubt that there would be much success in fining Walmart for having a subcontractor that hires illegals - the company that committed the crime isolates them. Hitting up the housing developer for the illegals hired by subcontractors again isolates the people with money.

So, anyway, I wish I could agree with you, because I really want there to be a simple solution. But the problem is twenty years old with a lack of enforcement coupled with courts that have given repeated rights to the criminals. In any case, I want SOMETHING done - I do not want the status quo to continue.
74 posted on 01/17/2004 9:38:59 PM PST by kingu (Remember: Politicians and members of the press are going to read what you write today.)
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To: kingu
"I don't know where you live, but such a thing would be a joke in California. Ahh, yes, I could see the headlines now.. 'Mom and Pop restaurant shut down by heavy fine' "

==

Not to mention a bunch of small homeowners being fined and lose their homes, because they hired an illegal to mow their lawn or clear the brush from their backyard, babysit their kid, or take care of their elderly parent, while they are working.

Yeah, fine the "employers" of illegal aliens!

(/sarcasm)
77 posted on 01/17/2004 9:43:46 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: kingu
Right. Also, this is not a good time to hit American business with another huge government-imposed expense, singly or en masse. You want to see jackboots? Let the feds shut down a Denny's because one employee had a convincing social security card or someone managed to get his illegal cousin on the payroll. We saw what happened to our economy when the feds went after Microsoft during the Clinton regime. It wasn't a pretty thing. I doubt there's a large corporation anywhere in America that doesn't have illegals on the payroll in some way. The question is whether they know it--and whether they could afford to hire a legal, unionized employee to do the same job.

The economy won't grow if the government starts seizing businesses and locking up business owners left and right. And we know what a reversal of the upward trends means politically.
79 posted on 01/17/2004 9:44:43 PM PST by Triple Word Score (2004: Even M&Ms are now BLACK AND WHITE.)
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To: kingu
[I don't know where you live]
Southern Florida

[there is a major corporation that has hired illegals]
Tyson Foods for one

[Corporate farms, perhaps? Nahh, they use the guest worker program that we already have in place,] Actually there are plenty of illegals on the corporate farms here. They even are organized and give interviews to the newspapers.

[The places you'll really find them is in construction industries] Yes, discovered working on a Federal building in Miami among other places. The jobs were NOT jobs that Americans would refuse either.

[They've got a huge market in landscaping.]
Very huge. In fact, legal landscapers down here can't compete. Many of them are folding up.

The point is, it has to be painful to ignore the law. That is the ONLY way there will be any adherence to it. If subcontractors go out of business for knowingly hiring illegals, great. The legal contractors will have more jobs and require more legal workers.

If the case of Walmart and companies like that that utilize subcontractors to get around the law, I think they should be liable if it can be proved they knew that illegals were being used.

I am not declaring that I know the answer to this problem, but I think by discussing it a better plan can be found than the one the President is proposing.

I see three areas to address:
1) at the border. Make it harder to get in.
2) the employer. Make it harder for him to turn a blind eye to the practice of hiring illegals.
3) the illegal immigrant. Make the punishment for violating our laws hurt him. Whether that includes a fine, jail time, removal from the legal immigration process, etc.

Think about it. Maybe you will come with better ideas, but something needs to be done besides a blanket acceptance of the law breakers.
85 posted on 01/17/2004 10:01:26 PM PST by Marak (Let me turn you on to Fantasy.)
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