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Anthrax Mailings: Connecting the Dots [to al-Qaeda] ^ | 18 Jan. 2004 | Ross E. Getman

Posted on 01/19/2004 11:00:30 PM PST by flamefront

[An extensive set of articles referred to lay out a definitive explanation on the source of the anthrax mailings.]

"Dad," he whispered. His Dad could barely hear him. "'I've been arrested, I'm being taken, I don't know where or why." Moazzam Begg was in the trunk of a car being taken away from his apartment in Islamabad. He had been picked up by Pakistan and US agents. The Britoner had come to Pakistan with his wife and children after the US strikes began in Afghanistan.  It was February 2002. Months later, he would confess to being involved with an Al Qaeda plot to disperse weaponized anthrax using a drone.  His name had been found on a money transfer in the one-room chemical bunker of Egyptian scientist Midhat Mursi at a camp in Afghanistan.

In early June 2003, a Central Intelligence Agency ("CIA") report publicly disclosed that the reason for Mohammed Atta's and Zacarias Moussaoui's inquiries into cropdusters was for the contemplated use in dispersing biological agents such as anthrax. An early September 2003 Newsweek article included a rumor by a Taliban source that at a meeting in April 2003 Bin Laden was planning an "unbelievable" biological attack, the plans for which had suffered a setback upon the arrest of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed ("KSM") the previous month in Rawalpindi, Pakistan. In November 2003, a report by a UN Panel of experts concluded that Al Qaeda is determined to use chemical and biological weapons and is restrained only by technical difficulties.    

In November 2003, it was widely reported that a potential terrorist plot had been thwarted in late 2002 after a London-based group tried to buy half a ton of saponin. Saponin enhances the transmission of molecules through biological cell membranes. When combined with a potent toxin, it can ease the absorption of the poison through the skin, experts say. Midhat Mursi had worked on a chemical additive to increase skin absorption.

The CIA reportedly has been quietly building a case that the anthrax mailings were an international plot. This is old news. It's just no longer bureaucratically impolite to openly contest the FBI's (former) theory about a lone, American scientist. Many people have argued that a US-based Al Qaeda operative is behind the earlier Fall 2001 anthrax mailings in the US, and that the mailings served as a threat and warning. This would follow the pattern of letters they sent 1997 to newspaper branches in Washington, D.C. and New York City, as well as symbolic targets. The letters bombs were sent in connection with the detention of those responsible for the earlier World Trade Center bombing in 1993. Handwritten notes and files on a laptop seized upon the capture of KSM, Al Qaeda's #3, included a feasible anthrax production plan using a spray dryer and addressed the recruitment of necessary expertise. What your morning paper did not tell you, however, was that the CIA seized a similar disc from Ayman Zawahiri's right-hand, Ahmed Salama Mabruk, 5 years earlier. The computer disk was confiscated from him during his arrest by the CIA in Azerbaijan and reportedly handed over to the Egyptian authorities. Mabruk, at the time, was the head of Jihad's military operations. There is a risk that observers underestimate the time that Al Qaeda has had to make progress in such recruitment and research and development. 

Some may still think that even in the final stages of the 9/11 plot, Zacarias Moussaoui was going to fly a 5th plane into the Capitol or White House. There is an e-mail by Moussaoui, however, dated July 31, 2001 indicating that he sought to take a crop dusting course that was to last up to 6 months. Moreover, in March 2003, Mohammed, reportedly said that Moussaoui was not going to be part of 9/11 but was to be part of a "second wave." Accused September 11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui told his trial judge that he had an al Qaeda mission that would have come after the terrorist attacks. KSM explained that his inquiries about crop dusters may have been related to the anthrax work being done by US-trained biochemist and Al Qaeda operative, Malaysian Yazid Sufaat. Al Qaeda's regional operative, Hambali, who was at a key January 2000 meeting and supervised Sufaat, has been captured. Hambali reportedly is cooperating. Zacarias Moussaoui, never the sharpest tool in the shed and thought by his superiors to be unreliable, has told the judge at his trial in a filing that he wants "anthrax for Jew sympathizer only."

Sufaat, according to both KSM and Hambali, did not have the virulent US Army Ames strain that would be used. That would require someone who had access to the strain. But if experience is any guide, nothing would stand in the way of Dr. Ayman Zawahiri's decade-long quest to weaponize and use anthrax against US targets that was described by one confidante to an Egyptian newspaper reporter. The islamist had been released from Egyptian prison and had known Zawahiri well for many years. Zawahiri was the leader of a faction of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad known as the Vanguards of Conquest. He was seeking to recreate Mohammed's taking of mecca by a small band through violent attacks on Egyptian leaders. By the mid-1990s, Zawahiri had determined that the group should focus on its struggle against the United States and hold off on further attacks against the Egyptian regime. A key question is how they acquired the anthrax strain first isolated by the Texas Veterinary Medical Diagnostic Lab in 1980. According to senior counterterrorism officials, both here and abroad, among the supporters of these militant islamists were people who blended into society and were available to act when another part of the network requested it.

A few days before Christmas 2003, after a renewed audiotape threat by Zawahiri of attacks, to include in the US homeland, the threat level was raised to orange or "high." According to some reports, Zawahiri is thought by intelligence to be Iran, on the border adjacent to Pakistan and Afghanistan. Wherever he is, authorities need to focus on the traceable connection between him and those he recruited.

First, Al Qaeda has had anthrax, the raw seed product in its unweaponized form, since at least 1997, when it was purchased by Bin Laden through the Moro Islamic Liberation Front ("Moro Front" or "MILF"). Zawahiri, Al Qaeda's #2, is head of Al Qaeda's biochemical program. The CIA has known of Zawahiri's plans to use anthrax for a half decade. The confidante and right-hand man of Dr. Ayman Zawahiri admitted that Zawahiri succeeded in obtaining anthrax and intended to use it against US targets. Another senior Al Qaeda member (a shura or policy-making council member no less) was working for the Egyptian intelligence services and he confirmed the report in a sworn lengthy confession. Even Zawahiri's attorney in 1999 said that Bin Laden and Zawahiri were likely to resort to the biological and chemical agents they possessed given the extradition pressure senior Al Qaeda leaders faced. A recently released islamist who had been a close associate of Zawahiri said that Zawahiri spent a decade and had made 15 separate attempts to recruit the necessary expertise to weaponize anthrax in Russia and the Middle East. The US Army recipe was not used, and obtaining the unprocessed Ames strain of anthrax used does not pose much of an obstacle or warrant the weight given it by some press accounts. There was lax control over the distribution of the Ames strain that was used, especially in light of the fact that transfers were not even required to be recorded prior to 1997. Significantly, the individual who isolated it nearly a quarter century ago (now retired), upon being contacted, does not report that he sent the only copy of the strain to Ft. Detrick.

Al Qaeda's anthrax production plans on Khalid Mohammed's computer did not evidence knowledge of advanced techniques in the most efficient biological weapons. At least according to the public comments by bioweaponeer experts William Patrick and Kenneth Alibek, under the optimal method, there is no electrostatic charge; in the case of the anthrax used in the mailings, there was an electrostatic charge. Although there was a dominance of single spores and a trillion spore concentration, there were clumps as large as 40 - 100 microns. (Spores must be no bigger than 5 microns to be inhalable.) As Kenneth Alibek, the former head of Russia's anthrax production program, explained on March 31, 2003 in response to a written question, "This anthrax wasn't sophisticated, didn't have coatings, had electric charge and many other things." Many point to the trillion spore concentration as extraordinary. It is far simpler, however, to achieve a trillion spore concentration in the production of a few grams than in industrial processing typical of a state sponsored lab. The "trillion spore" issue was at the heart of a lot of mistaken theories of the matter concluding that state sponsorship was necessarily indicated. The reported finding at Dugway undermines the argument of both the "bomb Iraq" crowd and the liberals focused on Dr. Steve Hatfill who object to US biodefense research because they view it as being useful for offensive purposes.  

USDA employee Johnelle Bryant first told us, in sensational detail, of Atta's inquiries about purchasing and retrofitting a cropduster. Khalid Mohammed then told interrogators that Zacarias Moussaoui's inquiries about crop dusting may have related to Yazid Sufaat's anthrax manufacturing plans. Although the details of the documents on Mohammed's computer may (or may not) point to possible difficulties in aerial dispersal, they are fully consistent with the product used in the anthrax mailings. Al Qaeda had both the means and opportunity.

US-trained Malaysian biochemist Yazid Sufaat met with 9/11 plotters and two hijackers in January 2000. Sufaat was a member of Al Qaeda and a member of Jemaah Islamiah ("JI"). JI has ties with the Moro Front. Sufaat used his company called Green Laboratory Medicine to buy items useful to Al Qaeda. (Green symbolizes "Islam" and Prophet Mohammed's holy war). Zacarias Moussaoui, who had a crop dusting manual when he was arrested, stayed at Sufaat's condominium in 2000 when he was trying to arrange for flight lessons in Malaysia. Yazid Sufaat provided Moussaoui with a letter indicating that he was a marketing representative for Infocus Technologies and allegedly provided him $35,000. The crop dusters were to be part of a "second wave."

After 9/11, Yazid Sufaat traveled to Afghanistan and Pakistan to work for the Taliban Medical Brigade and to continue his work with anthrax. As described in US News, a former reporter from the Kabul Times apparently actually met Sufaat, without realizing it, while traveling near Kabul in October 2001, perceiving him as Filipino. The fellow was carrying papers from Zawahiri and bragging about his ability to manipulate anthrax. Sufaat was arrested in December 2001 upon his return to Malaysia. Newsweek reported that a "second wave" involving biological attacks had been thwarted upon the arrest of Al Qaeda members who had been intended to provide logistical support.

Various doctors, both foreign and American, are associated with Al Qaeda leaders or operatives, to include the doctors Abdul Qadoos Khan, a bacteriologist from Rawalpindi and Aafia Siddiqui, PhD, from Karachi. Microbiologist Abdul Qadoos Khan was charged along with his son, Ahmed, for harboring the fugitives. As of March 28, 2003, he was in a hospital for a cardiac problem and had been granted "pre-arrest bail." Yet all you read about at the time was the arrest of the son Ahmed Abdul Qadoos, who receives a stipend from the UN for being officially low-IQ due to lead poisoning.

It was  Khalid Mohammed who told authorities about MIT-trained biologist Aafia Siddiqui, who at one time was thought to be traveling with a Florida "Atta level" pilot. All the Pakistani press reported that she was nabbed in Karachi after being spotted at the international airport on March 29. For the longest time, no US newspaper had yet reported that she was captured and instead stories continued to state that the FBI is seeking her for questioning. If the sources relied upon by these journalists did not even know (or would not reveal) that Aafia had been caught, why do these reporters think they know what's going on in the Amerithrax matter? Amerithrax is a confidential investigation. The Pakistan ISI and CIA rarely grant press interviews in connection with an ongoing manhunt. The CIA did not even allow the FBI access to KSM for 10 days after his arrest. As agent Van Harp, then head of the Amerithrax investigation said, the information coming from Khalid Mohammed is classified with the authorities releasing only certain limited information. According to the Pakistan reports, Aafia Siddiqui was spotted at the international airport and detained (after she was followed to a relative's house).  Some reports say she was coming from abroad, but the original report the others are all copying say she was coming from "upcountry." (Karachi is in the south). The reports say she is suspected of having been a member of Al Qaeda's "Chemical Wire Group." Perhaps something got lost in the translation, but the phrase "Chemical Wire Group" has appeared in all the english Pakistan and India papers.  

Officials have not publicly confirmed anything about the detention or interrogation.  There still is a very hot pursuit of the "Atta-level" Florida pilot that Siddiqui is thought to have known and been assisting.  He is said by one FBI agent to be "very, very, very" dangerous. The United States truly no longer has time for faulty analysis or politically-based preconceptions. In early June 2003, a CIA report concluded that the reason for Atta's and Zacarias Moussaoui's inquiries into cropdusters was in fact for the contemplated use in dispersing biological agents such as anthrax. It has long been known Osama Bin Laden was interested in using cropdusters to disperse biological agents (since the testimony of millennium bomber Ahmed Ressam).

The hijacker Ahmed Alhaznawi appears to have contracted cutaneous anthrax in Afghanistan. It's reasonable to credit his statement that he got the lesion after bumping into a suitcase he was carrying at a camp in Afghanistan. The lesion is further evidence of Al Qaeda's anthrax production program in Afghanistan.

One potential lead concerned a Fort Lee New Jersey $100,000 processor possibly of a type that could have been used to weaponize the anthrax. The processor was paid for in cash after a check-kiting scheme. The processor was delivered to a business front in Ft. Lee at 215 Main St. The address was 1 mile from pilot Nawaf al-Hazmi at 96 Linwood Plaza, one of the two hijackers who had attended the January 2000 meeting with anthrax technician Yazid Sufaat. Nawaf Al-hamzi and Khalid Almidhar stayed at Yazid Sufaat's condominium outside Kuala Lumpur. It eventually was determined that these two were on a level comparable to Atta for planning purposes.

The present evidence relating to Atta's travel to Prague does not warrant a conclusion that Al Qaeda obtained the Ames strain from Iraq. Iraq, however, remains a possible source of the Ames. Former Russian bioweaponeer Ken Alibek has said that a key Russian scientist assisted Iraq and that Russia had the Ames strain. Zawahiri traveled to Baghdad in 1998 with an entourage to attend the birthday party of Saddam's son. The papers found at headquarters of the Mukhabarat, Iraq's secret police, show that an entourage from Al Qaeda group was sent to the Iraqi capital in March 1998 from Sudan. According to at least some reports, Bin Laden rejected the suggestion of a closer alliance -- preferring to pursue his own concept of jihad. Two top Iraqi scientists, code named Charlie and Alpha, are helping the coalition to learn more about Iraqi's anthrax program, according to Dr. David Kay, head of the Iraq survey group in charge of the hunt for WMD. He has said that the Iraqis made surprising innovations in the milling and drying processes needed to weaponize anthrax.

Second, the media coverage has been seriously confused on the issue of motive and the reason Senators Daschle and Leahy would have been targeted -- tending to simplistically view them as "liberals." Zawahiri likely targeted Senators Daschle and Leahy to receive anthrax letters, in addition to various media outlets, because of the appropriations made pursuant to the "Leahy Law" to military and security forces. That money has prevented the militant islamists from achieving their goals. Al Qaeda members and sympathizers feel that the FBI's involvement in muslim countries like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Indonesia, and the Philippines interferes with the sovereignty of those countries. Indeed, the "Leahy Law" had one of its most well-known applications in Indonesia. Senator Leahy was Chairman of both the Judiciary Committee overseeing the FBI and Appropriations Subcommittee in charge of foreign aid to these countries. In late September 2001, it was announced that the President was seeking a blanket waiver that would lift all restrictions on aid to military and security units in connection with pursuing the militant islamists. This extradition and imprisonment of Al Qaeda leaders, along with US support for Israel and the Mubarak government in Egypt, remains foremost in the mind of Dr. Zawahiri. At the height of the development of his biological weapons program, his brother was extradited and executed pursuant to a death sentence in the "Albanian returnees" case. It's hard to keep up with the stories about billion dollar appropriations, debt forgiveness, and loan guarantees to countries like Egypt and Israel and now even Pakistan -- and those appropriations pale in comparison to the $87 billion in a "Supplemental" appropriation relating to the invasion of Iraq. Al Qaeda had a motive in mind.

In his Fall 2001 book titled "Knights under the Banner of the Prophet," Zawahiri argued that the secular press was telling "lies" about the militant islamists -- to include the suggestion that the militant islamists were somehow the creation of the United States in connection with expelling the Russians from Afghanistan. Zawahiri argued instead that they have been active since the assassination of Anwar Sadat in Egypt because of the treaty between the Camp David Accord and the resulting peace treaty between Egypt and Israel. The anthrax letters were sent on the date of the Camp David Accord and then the date Anwar Sadat was assassinated as if to underscore the point to anyone paying attention. Most of the "talking heads" on television, however, knew only that Daschle and Leahy were liberal democrats and did not know anything of Al Qaeda beyond what they read in the newspapers. The FBI's profile includes a US-based supporter of the militant islamists. Attorney General Ashcroft has always said that an "either-or" approach is not useful. The media has tended to overlook the fact that when the FBI uses the word "domestic" the word includes a US-based, highly-educated supporter of the militant islamists.

There is an emerging consensus that anthrax was contained in a letter to AMI, the publisher of the National Enquirer -- in a goofy love letter to Jennifer Lopez enclosing a Star of David. A report by the Center for Disease Control of interviews with AMI employees (as well as detailed interviews by author Leonard Cole) supports the conclusion that there were not one, but two, such mailings containing anthrax. (The letters apparently were to different AMI publications -- for example, one may have been to the National Enquirer and another to The Globe.)

Third, this tactic of letters is not merely the modus operandi of these militant islamists inspired by Zawahiri, it is their signature. The islamists sent letter bombs in January 1997 to newspaper offices in New York City and Washington, D.C. in connection with the earlier bombing of the World Trade Center and the imprisonment of the blind sheik, Sheik Abdel Rahman. The former leader of the Egyptian Al-Gamaa al-Islamiya ("Islamic Group"), he was also a spiritual leader of Al Qaeda. The letter bombs were sent in connection with the treatment of the Egyptian islamists imprisoned for the earlier attack on the WTC and a related plot. The purpose of the letter bombs -- which resulted in minimal casualty -- was to send a message. (There is an outstanding $2 million reward). There was no claim of responsibility. There was no explanation. Once one had been received, the next ten, mailed on two separate dates, were easily collected. Sound familiar? Two bombs were also sent to Leavenworth, where a key WTC 1993 defendant was imprisoned, addressed to "Parole Officer" (a position that does not exist).

Abdel Rahman's son was captured in Quetta, Pakistan in mid-February 2003. That arrest in turn led to the dramatic capture of Khalid Mohammed, Al Qaeda's #3. Mohammed was hiding in the home of the Pakistani bacteriologist Dr. Abdul Qadoos Khan. Along with Zawahiri, Abdel Rahman and his two sons have long had considerable influence over Bin Laden. He reportedly treated them like sons. Zawahiri and OBL are Rahman's friends. The imprisoned WTC 1993 plotter Yousef was KSM's nephew. Thus, the leaders in charge of Al Qaeda's anthrax production program had a close connection to those imprisoned in connection with the earlier bombing of the World Trade Center. Osama Bin Laden had asked Iraqi intelligence for technical assistance in sending letter bombs a half year before the Al Hayat letters were sent.

A sender purporting to be islamist sent cyanide in both early 2002 and early 2003 in New Zealand and ingredients of nerve gas in Belgium in 2003. There's even a chapter titled "Poisonous Letter" in the Al Qaeda manual. Just because Al Qaeda likes its truck bombs and the like to be effective does not mean they don't see the value in a deadly missive. As Brian Jenkins once said, "terrorism is theater."

The mailer's use of Greendale School is revealing. Documents establish that Zawahiri used "school" as a code word for Al Qaeda in his correspondence. Green symbolizes Islam and was the Prophet Mohammed's color. By Greendale School, the anthrax perp was being cute, just as Yazid Sufaat was being cute in naming his lab Green Laboratory Medicine. "Dale" means "river valley." Greendale refers to green river valley -- i.e., Cairo's Egyptian Islamic Jihad or the Islamic Group. The sender is announcing that he is of either Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Egyptian Islamic Group or Jihad-al Qaeda, which is actually the full name of the group after the 1998 merger of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad and al Qaeda.

Fourth, as to opportunity, though seldom reported, there is a wealth of "open source" information about possible Al Qaeda or Egyptian Islamic Jihad or Islamic Group in the United States and Canada. The public information mostly relates to those suspected sleepers who have been detained or who are at large and are being sought. Zawahiri's mission in the United States in 1995 was to do spadework for terrorism, not fundraising. He traveled under an alias and was accompanied by a US Army sergeant anemd Ali Mohammed. What mosques exactly did they visit and who did they meet?

Whatever your political persuasion (mine is Naderite), the FBI and CIA deserve our support. We are, after all, in this together. First, the nature of such an investigation is that we lack sufficient information to second-guess (or even know) what the FBI is doing. Media reports are a poor approximation of reality because of the lack of good sources. Second, hindsight is 20/20. Third, with the "new age" Efrem Zimbalist, Jr. in charge of the investigation, it is not likely we could do better in striking the appropriate balance between due process and national security.

Finally, the "Hatfill theory" seems to have been exhausted or at least lost public favor. The "Hatfill theory" accusing Dr. Stephen Hatfill was always highly dubious. The suspicion was founded on many false premises, and there was no reliable evidence indicating his guilt. The FBI's fixation on Hatfill (at least as rumored by some reporters) may have stemmed from a warning by one Senator that careers hung in the balance. Leahy's chief of staff started with the strong predisposition that some right-winger was involved because two liberal democrats had been targeted. The Hatfill theory -- to include ongoing interviews and ongoing 7/24 surveillance by 8 surveillance specialists -- is now the subject of a pending civil rights claim of uncertain merit. The statute of limitation for the libel suit threatened against the New York Times expired in most jurisdictions the first week in July 2003. The Hatfill theory ironically may best be understood as an Al Qaeda theory, with a coincidental Malaysian connection adding to the other circumstances. Given the regrettable leaks that he was under suspicion, it is only fair that the FBI leak with equal enthusiasm the fact that Dr. Hatfill has now been dropped as a suspect.

TOPICS: Anthrax Scare; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: anthrax; attasanthraxties; biologicalweapons; cbw; domesticterrorism; getman; hambali; jihadinamerica; ksm; mohammedatta; sufaat; wmd; zawahiri
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To: EdLake
And I'm still waiting to hear your evidence of where Patrick said there was no silica coating. Where did you pull that one out of? Telling more porky pies and hoping nobody will question it?
141 posted on 01/24/2004 2:49:56 PM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: Van der Waals
Food for thought.
142 posted on 01/24/2004 2:53:35 PM PST by Ciexyz
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To: EdLake
"Perhaps they changed their mind and decided that "fatigue" was not sufficient to be officially the onset of a disease."

The classic early symptoms of inhlational anthrax are fatigue for a few days, followed sometimes by a respite, but then the patient gets REALLY sick and has to be hospitalized.

ALL the EVIDENCE clearly points to the fact that Blanco was exposed to anthrax BEFORE the Septemebr 25 letter was opened. This is the conclsion of the CDC, and it a correct conclusion.

You have to twist this around because you desperately don't want the September 19 letter to be an anthrax letter.

Your whole screwball theory is perverted and twisted to demonstrate that Muslims could not possibly have sent the anthrax.

Most other people look at ALL the FACTS and draw INTELLIGENT conclusions based on these FACTS.

143 posted on 01/24/2004 2:57:58 PM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: jpl; Sanchito
Me, neither. I've never called for a zot, never even hit the abuse button.

Evidently he had other transgressions that did him in.

Thanks, sanchito, for the laugh... it DOES look like what you say, but that's not what happened.

144 posted on 01/24/2004 4:48:49 PM PST by txhurl (That was funny)
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To: Van der Waals
Van der Waals's dissertation had some flaws in it -- his equations work, but that may be just spaghetti against the wall. At least that's what my electro-magnetism professor used to say. Not the spagghetti -- that's my paraphrase . Just that the lucky results were pulled like a rabbit from a hat of a bad theoretical development.
145 posted on 01/24/2004 5:04:51 PM PST by bvw
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To: EdLake; jpl; Sabertooth; genefromjersey; Allan; Mitchell; pokerbuddy4
Ed, I just received a freepmail from someone I trust who has informed me that someone lobbied the guy who oversees the UCLA website, and that this person persuaded the UCLA webmaster to change Blanco's onset date to Sep 30.

I'm told that this person was you!

And yet you write above:
"....but the CDC uses Sept. 30, which UCLA considers "most likely"."

However, what you don't tell us is that it was YOU who "considers this date" "most likely".!!!!

How far are you willing to go to twist and pervert this entire investigation to suit your own needs???

You have now been caught in a gross act of misinformation - and not for the first time. You lobbied to get the date changed, and then you come on here and try to tell us that UCLA did this on their on volition! That is outrageous, and people really need to now question the ENTIRE content of you website. How many other pieces of misinformation are there - probably plenty!

146 posted on 01/25/2004 7:30:31 AM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: TrebleRebel
ALL the EVIDENCE clearly points to the fact that Blanco was exposed to anthrax BEFORE the Septemebr 25 letter was opened. This is the conclsion of the CDC, and it a correct conclusion.

Most other people look at ALL the FACTS and draw INTELLIGENT conclusions based on these FACTS.

Against my own better judgement, I'm responding one last time to you.

You apparently cannot read. In message #91 I very clearly stated:

Ernest Blanco evidently inhaled anthrax spores when he dumped the mail bag containing the anthrax letter onto a sorting table, then checked the bag to make certain it was empty, and then folded the bag so it could be returned to the post office. That probably happened on Friday, September 21, 2001, or Monday, September 24.

I don't know how more clearly I can say that Ernesto Blanco was exposed before the letter was opened. So were the postal workers who handled that unopened letter and other unopened letters.

What's so difficult to understand about that?

The conclusion of the CDC is that they have no idea when Ernesto Blanco was exposed. You yourself pointed that out when, in message #136, you posted a link to the obsolete CDC chart HERE and HERE. Can't you see the big question mark indicating that they do not know how long the incubation period lasted? Moreover, that CDC chart was last reviewed on December 20, 2001 and is therefore very obviously obsolete.

The current and up-to-date information about Ernesto Blanco is HERE. It was last reviewed January 12, 2004. It says Blanco's onset date was September 28, and that's the date I use. So, the September 24 onset date you said in message #136 that you use is based upon obsolete information.

So, as you say, "Most other people look at ALL the FACTS and draw INTELLIGENT conclusions based on these FACTS." Maybe it's time for you to start doing that instead of just ranting like some snotty 14-year-old.

Have a nice day.


147 posted on 01/25/2004 8:05:01 AM PST by EdLake
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To: TrebleRebel
Ed, I just received a freepmail from someone I trust who has informed me that someone lobbied the guy who oversees the UCLA website, and that this person persuaded the UCLA webmaster to change Blanco's onset date to Sep 30.

Hmmm. So I have to respond again to show that you cannot read. On the UCLA site, Ernesto Blanco's onset date is given as September 28, which is the date I've stated again and again I use.

I did not "lobby" to have Ernesto Blanco's onset date changed. I don't recall ever discussing Ernesto Blanco's onset date with UCLA. We discussed Bob Stevens' onset date, which they did change to September 30. But they didn't change it because I lobbied them. They changed it to agree with the CDC's onset date for Stevens. The official CDC date for Stevens is HERE and is September 30.

You really do need to learn how to read.


148 posted on 01/25/2004 8:14:39 AM PST by EdLake
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To: EdLake
"Can't you see the big question mark indicating that they do not know how long the incubation period lasted?"

Listen to me you snotty old man - I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT INCUBATION PERIODS! I never was - it was YOU that brought that up!

I was talking about WHEN he got sick - in other words his ONSET date!

As usual, you are twisting my words. My words were PERFECTLY CLEAR.

You are NOT looking at ALL the FACTS. You really need to look at ALL the FACTS. Then things might make MORE sense to YOU. Until you FINALLY decide to DO that, you will NEVER understand this CASE, and your website will CONTINUE to be TOTAL CRAP!
149 posted on 01/25/2004 8:14:59 AM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: EdLake
You LOBBIED them to change BOTH dates - I even heard that you BOASTED about how you persuaded them to change the dates. Of course, that you made very happy, since it moved BOTH dates up, further away from the JLo letter whuch is the letter that apparently terrifies you.

When you look at ALL the FACTS, you will see that a quite different picture emerges, one in which Stevens and Balanco were infected by the September 19 letter.

But since you refuse to look at ALL the FACTS, you will never see this.
150 posted on 01/25/2004 8:18:56 AM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: EdLake
You continue to make outrageous statements about "obselete" dates - which is something you apparently make up simply to suit your own needs.

The CDC officially concluded that Bob Stevens got sick from the September 19 JLo letter. There is nothing "obselete" about that. It must make you squirm and terrify you, but it's there in black and white. Live with it!
151 posted on 01/25/2004 8:22:46 AM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: TrebleRebel

Hmmm. You not only cannot read, you evidently don't even understand what you are talking about.

You stated: "ALL the EVIDENCE clearly points to the fact that Blanco was exposed to anthrax BEFORE the Septemebr 25 letter was opened." The date he was exposed would be his exposure date. Understand. And the onset date would be the date he first showed symptoms. That would be - according the the CDC's current data - September 28, not the obsolete September 24 date you stated that you use.

You really seem like you are getting upset. Take a pill. Lie down. Maybe it will help you think more clearly. You really seem to be getting everything confused - particularly when you insist on using obsolete information.


152 posted on 01/25/2004 8:28:43 AM PST by EdLake
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To: EdLake
How dumb can you be? It doesn't take a genius to work out that if Blanco got sick BEFORE the September 25 letter was opened, that it WASN'T the September 25 that INFECTED him!

If he started getting fatigue on September 24 that means he was exposed BEFORE September 24. Are you following this, or is too complex for you?

It means that he was very likely exposed 4-5 days BEFORE this - which means he was exposed by the September 19 letter. Duh!

You really need to look at ALL the FACTS - then things will BECOME CLEAR to you.
153 posted on 01/25/2004 8:34:04 AM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: TrebleRebel
You LOBBIED them to change BOTH dates

I have every e-mail I ever exchanged with UCLA. So, tell me when I did this, and I'll check it out.

I do not recall ever mentioning Ernesto Blanco to UCLA. But I find it very amusing that you think I lobbied UCLA to change the date to agree with the CDC's date, when you argued in message #140 that "UCLA have NOTHING WHATSOVER to do with the official medical investigation" and that you use the CDC's date. You really are confused.


154 posted on 01/25/2004 8:35:52 AM PST by EdLake
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To: EdLake
And I'm STILL WAITINMG - to see your "evidence" that Patrick said there was no silica coating. Where is it, Ed?

Or is that YET ANOTHER of your fabricated "facts"?
155 posted on 01/25/2004 8:37:02 AM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: TrebleRebel
The CDC officially concluded that Bob Stevens got sick from the September 19 JLo letter.

If the CDC "officially concluded" such nonsense, they were mistaken. The evidence clearly shows that the J-Lo letter did NOT contain anthrax.


156 posted on 01/25/2004 8:41:25 AM PST by EdLake
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To: EdLake
I say the CDC date is September 24. That's when Blanco got sick. The Septemebr 24 date is CLEARLY the correct date. The September 28 is CLEARLY wrong. ALL the EVIDENCE points to the fact that September 24 is the date that Stevens got sick.

You say the CDC date is September 28, and you use the UCLA webpage to somehow justify that, when in fact it was you who persauded UCLA to write that.

I admit that the CDC do give September 28 in another paper, but this date is not helpful. We need to know the FIRST signs of symptoms, so we can understand when he was EXPOSED.

The FIRST signs of symptoms were September 24 - and that's why Blanco was infected by the September 19 letter.

It's really very simple - you are just deliberately trying to confuse things, because you can't handle the Septemebr 19 letter.

You really ought to look at ALL the FACTS.
157 posted on 01/25/2004 8:42:46 AM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: EdLake
If you look at ALL the FACTS, it is obvious to anyone that the September 19 letter CONTAINED anthrax.

You really ought to TRY to LOOK at ALL the FACTS.

It is the OFFICIAL conclusion of the CDC - Robert Stevens died from a primary aerosol of anthrax from the JLO letter he held close to his face on September 19.

When you look at ALL the EVIDENCE and ALL the FACTS this is the inescapable conclusion.
158 posted on 01/25/2004 8:46:06 AM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: TrebleRebel
How dumb can you be? It doesn't take a genius to work out that if Blanco got sick BEFORE the September 25 letter was opened, that it WASN'T the September 25 that INFECTED him!

Really? What's your reasoning? Are you totally unware of all the postal employees who got anthrax from unopened anthrax letters?

Whether it was the J-Lo letter or the real anthrax letter, Blanco still would have had to get anthrax from an unopened letter. His job was to deliver unopened letters. The J-Lo letter was delivered unopened. And Stephanie Dailey opened the real anthrax letter.

The evidence indicates that Ernesto Blanco inhaled anthrax spores from either the letter or from the mail bag that contained the letter. Probably on Friday, September 21, 2001. He delivered the unopened letter to Stephanie Dailey's desk, where it remained until she returned from vacation and opened it on September 25.

Don't you check facts at all?


159 posted on 01/25/2004 8:48:33 AM PST by EdLake
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To: EdLake
By the way, I'm STILL WAITING for your evidence on the Patrick "no silica" question.

What's wrong Ed? Caught in another little transgression that you can't get out of?
160 posted on 01/25/2004 8:48:35 AM PST by TrebleRebel
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