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New Research Shows Dangers of Condoms in HIV Prevention
SeaMax News ^ | 1/14/2004 | Fr. Michael Reilly

Posted on 01/20/2004 11:08:11 AM PST by Hugenot

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1 posted on 01/20/2004 11:08:12 AM PST by Hugenot
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To: Hugenot
medical experts presented findings which indicate that the wisespread availability of condoms statistically increase promiscuity

This couldn't be true! The liberals have been telling us that promiscuity is in no way linked to the availability of condoms!

2 posted on 01/20/2004 11:15:14 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: Hugenot
Dry sex isn't helping things, either.
3 posted on 01/20/2004 11:17:39 AM PST by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
In africa you have a larger issue, all sorts of STD's are rampant... a condom won't stop the spread of HIV if your genetals have open sores from other diseases when you are having sex... If your crotch is full of open wounds, a condom isn't going to do much to stop bodily fluid transmissions.

Sub sahara Africa is a very different world than the first world.
4 posted on 01/20/2004 11:21:11 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: gcruse
Back in the eighties (!), the army had a file on more than 150 military personnel HIV cases in Germany (I think it was just Germany) contracted from infected prostitutes even though condoms were used in every case and the soldiers didn't perform 'risky' oral actions on the prostitutes. The military study settled upon bodily fluids entering the bloodstream via the capillaries in the pubic region where hair follicles act to 'direct' virus to the bloodstream.
5 posted on 01/20/2004 11:25:41 AM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Hugenot
Not surprising. More important than the technical shortfallings of the condom though are the cultural issues involved that are entirely missed in the approach of the article. When the men, despite proper usage training, stop pulling the condoms over their walking sticks as fertility totems and start using them the right way, there might be some effect.

To understand the cultures we are dealing with you have to read the articles on Vampire politics and flying african wizards.

6 posted on 01/20/2004 11:29:33 AM PST by gnarledmaw
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To: HamiltonJay
Yet in at least one sub-Saharan African country ABSTINENCE and MONOGAMY have been publically endorsed as the best way to avoid and control the spread of AIDS and guess what? It works!
7 posted on 01/20/2004 11:55:10 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: Hugenot
This is not new news. The government has always known that condoms will not prevent AIDS, the virus is small enough to pass through the microscopic openings in the latex. I was told this back in 1984, by an epidemiologist who was brought to LA to study and track the epidemic there. He was warning me to double glove. He said that the gov't didn't want the public to panic, so they let the condom and latex glove recommendation go out.
8 posted on 01/20/2004 12:00:49 PM PST by Eva
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To: gnarledmaw
Exactly. They also hand them out to kids to blow up like balloons.
9 posted on 01/20/2004 12:03:29 PM PST by tdadams
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To: Hugenot
Dr. Green, Harvard: "20 years into the pandemic there is no evidence that more condoms leads to less AIDS."

bump
10 posted on 01/20/2004 12:06:02 PM PST by polemikos (The solution to AIDs is behavior, not condoms)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
SAVAGE had the best quote on this subject: "Bush wants to spend $15BIL on a country that can't keep it's zippers up!"
11 posted on 01/20/2004 12:06:15 PM PST by OXENinFLA
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To: Eva
the virus is small enough to pass through the microscopic openings in the latex. I was told this back in 1984

This is an ages old rumor that has it's origins with the abstinence-is-the-only-answer fundamentalists. It was long ago proven to be utter nonsense.

12 posted on 01/20/2004 12:10:15 PM PST by tdadams
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To: Hugenot
Maybe Bono and Paul O'Neill should do a new Africa Tour to talk talk about this.....oh no, they might lose their popularity with the liberals. Can't have that!
13 posted on 01/20/2004 12:12:17 PM PST by cookcounty (A "Shaheed" is NOT a "Martyr.")
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To: Hugenot
according to Austin Ruse of the Culture of Life Foundation

Just show me that and I'll tell you which way the research went.

14 posted on 01/20/2004 12:12:38 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: tdadams
This is an ages old rumor that has it's origins with the abstinence-is-the-only-answer fundamentalists. It was long ago proven to be utter nonsense.

IIRC, in their "research" they filled condoms with a fluid containing millions of microscopic balls the size of the virus. They delcared that condoms won't stop transmission of the virus when they found that after several hours some of the capsules had permeated the latex.

I guess they're right in a real-world sense if the guy ejaculates 1/2 cup of semen and the girl keeps the condom in her for a couple hours afterwards.

15 posted on 01/20/2004 12:18:24 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: Hugenot
"The Ugandan government, which promoted abstinence and faithfulness, helped bring about a 75% decline in HIV prevalence among 15-19 age group, 60% in the 20-24, and a 54% decline overall by 1998. "

This literally represents millions of lives saved, yet the world media continuously ignore the Ugandan turn-around, prefering to tell the world we need more condoms, quilts and AIDwalks. Posturing for "compassion" while millions die---how sick.

16 posted on 01/20/2004 12:19:51 PM PST by cookcounty (A "Shaheed" is NOT a "Martyr.")
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To: NYer
Could you please ping the usual suspects?

There is an article in this months Discover about this. Condoms are better than nothing, but the whole continent of Africa has a massive problem of multiple sexual partners.

If I can find a link I will post it.
17 posted on 01/20/2004 12:23:16 PM PST by redgolum
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To: antiRepublicrat
Not to get graphic on you, but filling up the condomn with liquid is not unlike it being stretched and strained by ...well you know. Sounds like a valid research approach to me, although the "hours" business would seem to be a problem.

Are you sure it was "hours"? (how many hours?)

18 posted on 01/20/2004 12:25:21 PM PST by cookcounty (A "Shaheed" is NOT a "Martyr.")
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To: Hugenot
At the Medical Institute for Sexual Health HIV/Pandemic in Washington, DC last week medical experts presented findings which indicate that the wisespread availability of condoms statistically increase promiscuity and therefore the risk of contracting HIV.

Yet again scientific knowledge finally discovers what the believers have known all along.

Shalom.

19 posted on 01/20/2004 12:28:32 PM PST by ArGee (Scientific reasoning makes it easier to support gross immorality.)
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To: tdadams
It is not a rumor, the man who told me this was a top gov't epidemiologist, working with the doctors at either USC or UCLA, I can't remember which. He was telling me for my own protection.
20 posted on 01/20/2004 12:37:25 PM PST by Eva
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To: tdadams
I should add, that what was proven is that the virus is so fragile, that it had little chance of surviving long enough to pass through the micro-scopic openings in the latex, not that it was not possible.
21 posted on 01/20/2004 12:39:44 PM PST by Eva
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To: *Homosexual Agenda; EdReform; scripter; GrandMoM; backhoe; Yehuda; Clint N. Suhks; saradippity; ...
Homosexual Agenda Ping - AIDS is prevented by by one thing and one thing only.


And it works every time it's tried.

If anyone wants:

(A) ON
or
(B) OFF

this ping list, ping me!
22 posted on 01/20/2004 12:49:20 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: *Homosexual Agenda; EdReform; scripter; GrandMoM; backhoe; Yehuda; Clint N. Suhks; saradippity; ...
Homosexual Agenda Ping - AIDS is prevented by by one thing and one thing only.


And it works every time it's tried.

If anyone wants:

(A) ON
or
(B) OFF

this ping list, ping me!
23 posted on 01/20/2004 12:49:33 PM PST by little jeremiah
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Sorry for the duplicate!~
24 posted on 01/20/2004 12:50:32 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: Eva
You guys can argue about this as long as you like; me, being a recent small-earth convert, will take good news wherever I find it.
25 posted on 01/20/2004 12:51:34 PM PST by Old Professer
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To: cookcounty
Are you sure it was "hours"? (how many hours?)

I read it a long time ago so I can't remember specifics, but it was an absurdly long time. My feeling at the time after reading about the research methods were that they were completely unrealistic.

It's the same reaction I'd have to an anti-smoking group telling you you'll get X tar and Y nicotine off a cigarette, and their tests hook a vacuum to the back of a cigarette from light time to finish, including what you get from the burning butt. Just not real-world.

26 posted on 01/20/2004 12:57:25 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: gnarledmaw
"All cultures are equal!"

I remember talking to someone about how we shouldn't impose our ideas and values as that might upset them. Reading stuff like this makes me think that we should impose and if they don't like it, tough.

They'll thank us later.

27 posted on 01/20/2004 12:57:59 PM PST by Killborn (I'd rather have Big Bizniz than Big Guvmint. (Happy New Year and God bless you all!))
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To: antiRepublicrat; tdadams; .45MAN; AAABEST; AKA Elena; al_c; american colleen; Angelus Errare; ...
This is an ages old rumor that has it's origins with the abstinence-is-the-only-answer fundamentalists. It was long ago proven to be utter nonsense.

IIRC, in their "research" they filled condoms with a fluid containing millions of microscopic balls the size of the virus.

Regardless of whether this point is valid, condoms have a 20% failure rate in real world usage in preventing pregnancy.

A woman can only get pregnant 7 to 10 days per months, if the condom fails.

But she can get HIV 365 days a year.

So by simple math, the failure rate at preventing HIV transmission for condoms will be MUCH higher than 20%, as the article in this thread proves.

28 posted on 01/20/2004 1:10:10 PM PST by Polycarp IV (http://www.cathfam.org/)
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To: OXENinFLA
Then SAVAGE is an idiot who thinks Africa is a country.
29 posted on 01/20/2004 1:21:17 PM PST by zimdog
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To: antiRepublicrat
My feeling at the time after reading about the research methods were that they were completely unrealistic.

It was probably like a lot of "research" that's put forth by those with a vested interest in swaying public opinion, come to a conclusion first and then find a way to get to that conclusion.

30 posted on 01/20/2004 1:33:19 PM PST by tdadams
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To: CAtholic Family Association
condoms have a 20% failure rate in real world usage in preventing pregnancy.

I'm sure you won't mind linking me to a legitimate study that affirms the 20% figure you mention. Frankly, that seems utterly implausible, even when factoring in human error.

31 posted on 01/20/2004 1:36:05 PM PST by tdadams
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To: Hugenot
According to Dr. Rand Stoneburner (formerly of the WHO and an independent advisor to USAID), "declines of HIV in Uganda are linked to behavior change…[and] include primary risk avoidance with a 65% decline in casual sex."

I think this is the very first time I've ever seen an "AIDS official" actually say this obvious fact in public.

32 posted on 01/20/2004 1:38:27 PM PST by r9etb
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To: CAtholic Family Association
condoms have a 20% failure rate in real world usage in preventing pregnancy.

... when used improperly. Of course abstinence is the best way to prevent STDs, but the scare tactics of the abstinence crowd go overboard. For people with intelligence, the outrageous claims and connections make them a laughingstock just as are most of the ONDCP anti-drug commercials out there.

33 posted on 01/20/2004 1:46:30 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: tdadams
I'm sure you won't mind linking me to a legitimate study that affirms the 20% figure you mention. Frankly, that seems utterly implausible, even when factoring in human error.

I've seen this figure before, too. IIRC it's much lower, around single digits, with "perfect use". I think the 20% is with "typical use", meaning all the times people don't bother to use one or they use it incorrectly. For all I know, people in African countries use a condom once a year, thinking it's some sort of magical charm instead of understanding how it's really supposed to work. I guess that would make for a pretty high typical failure rate, too.

34 posted on 01/20/2004 1:54:48 PM PST by ReagansShinyHair
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To: tdadams
No more nonsensical than the claim that the distribution of condoms will stop the spread of AIDS, even in the developed countries. Irresponsible behavior kills people.
35 posted on 01/20/2004 2:13:58 PM PST by RobbyS (XPqu)
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To: Killborn
They'll thank us later. You mean the gays will thank the cops for stopping orgies? I thought the whole point of the gay rights movement is to keep the people from hasseling them?
36 posted on 01/20/2004 2:18:01 PM PST by RobbyS (XPqu)
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To: ReagansShinyHair
You think many 16-year old kids will bother to use them correctly? Yeah, like they drive their cars in accordance with the rules of the road.
37 posted on 01/20/2004 2:20:18 PM PST by RobbyS (XPqu)
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To: RobbyS
I was talking about foreign cultures and traditions/ideas that are morally and ethically wrong to anyone with several brain cells (of course the libs don't have any). In any case, I was saying that we should impose our culture so we no longer have to deal with the kind of BS we have in the Middle East and Africa.

I wasn't thinking about the gay factor at all.
38 posted on 01/20/2004 3:03:03 PM PST by Killborn (I'd rather have Big Bizniz than Big Guvmint. (Happy New Year and God bless you all!))
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To: Killborn
It is not all a matter of primative culture. Thailand has a terrific problem with AIDS and other STDs because of the sex-tourists from places like Germany and Japan.
39 posted on 01/20/2004 3:14:58 PM PST by RobbyS (XPqu)
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To: RobbyS
I'm not just talking AIDS, I'm talking most problems in general. The culture problem goes both ways. We not only have to deal with barbaric, primitive culture as seen in Africa and the Arab world, we also have to deal with nihilistic, self absorbed culture as espoused by libs.

When I say "our" culture, I meant one of freedom, responsibility, and justice, the true ideals and values of America.
40 posted on 01/20/2004 3:41:47 PM PST by Killborn (I'd rather have Big Bizniz than Big Guvmint. (Happy New Year and God bless you all!))
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To: tdadams
"Failing" refers to leaks, breaks, and incorrect or inconsistent use.

How effective are condoms in preventing pregnancy?

For adults, the failure rate is about 14% per year of use. That means every year about 1 in 7 condom users experience an unplanned pregnancy. For persons under the age of 18, condoms were found to have a failure rate of 18% over one year. For unmarried minorities, the condom failure rate is 36% per year, and for unmarried Hispanics, the failure rate is as high as 45% annually. Spermicidal condoms have not been proven more effective than the non-spermicidal type.

University of Texas, Medical Branch, Galveston, Texas
Press Release: June 7, 1993, Condoms Fail 31% of the time to prevent HIV
Contact: Susan Weller at 409-772-2618. published: June, 1993 in Social Science and Medicine, #36-120, analysis of data from 11 different studies

1995 American Journal of Epidemiology article, reported a Brazilian study of 204 heterosexual couples, each comprising of an HIV-positive man and an uninfected woman. Among couples who used condoms 100% of the time, 23% of the women were infected with HIV.

Fact Sheet on Condom Failure
1. "24 sets of condoms tested and all failed" and almost 71% failed "In respect of one or more of the physical requirements of the specification, notably freedom from pinholes." SABS report April 89.

2. "Spillage from condoms occurs as much as 65% to 75% of the time." Bjorklund and Gordon. Univ of Manitoba. Nov. 1990.

3. "The rubber comprising latex condom has intrinsic voids about 5 microns in size." The HIV virus is 0.1 micron. Roland, Rubber World. June 1993. Roland and Sobieski, Rubber Chemistry and Technology. Vol. 62, 1989.

4. Condoms reduce the risk of HIV infection by about 70% if they are used "consistently and correctly" IPPF (International Planned Parenthood Federation) Medical Bulletin Feb. 1997.

5. "It is not established whether the condom is as effective at preventing heterosexual transmission of HIV as it is for preventing conception." "The level of protection approximates 87%, with a range depending upon the incidence (of HIV) among condom nonusers. Thus the condom's efficacy at reducing heterosexual transmission may be comparable to or slightly lower than its effectiveness at preventing pregnancy." Family Planning Perspectives, 1999.

6. The failure rate for condoms in preventing pregnancy is 10%. K. Niswander. Manual of Obstetrics 1980.

7. The ISO standard for condoms allows 2 per 350 to be defective (about six defects per thousand.) (Tough luck if you happen to be one of those six)

8. "Increased condom use will increase the number of [HIV/AIDS] transmissions that result from condom failure" and "a vigorous condom promotion policy could increase rather than decrease unprotected sexual exposure if it has the unintended effect of encouraging a greater overall level of sexual activity." "Condoms and seat belts: the parallels and the lessons" The Lancet, 29 Jan 2000

9. In one test, 33% of latex condoms leaked HIV sized particles. Sexually Transmitted Diseases. vol.19. 1992

10. Ontario Ministry of Health campaign to promote condoms by means of televised AIDS messages made respondents more inclined to use condoms but less inclined to avoid casual sexual partners. Wilde, Target Risk, PDE Publications, 1994.

11. IPPF indicates that the risk of contracting AIDS during so-called "protected sex" approaches 100 percent as the number of episodes of sexual intercourse increases. Cates Medical Bulletin, IPPF 1997.

12. The only sure ways to avoid sexual transmission of diseases (including AIDS, chlamydia, genital herpes, genital warts, gonorrhoea, hepatitis B, and syphilis) are not to have sex at all or to limit sex to one uninfected partner who is also monogamous. Food and Drug Administrationc (USA) Consumer Magazine Sep 1990.

41 posted on 01/20/2004 4:24:06 PM PST by Polycarp IV (http://www.cathfam.org/)
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To: antiRepublicrat
For people with intelligence, the outrageous claim that condoms prevent AIDS is the saddest laughingstock of all. "People with intelligence" is obviously a subjective term in your current usage.
42 posted on 01/20/2004 4:37:11 PM PST by Polycarp IV (http://www.cathfam.org/)
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To: CAtholic Family Association
For people with intelligence, the outrageous claim that condoms prevent AIDS is the saddest laughingstock of all

Anyone claiming condoms 100% prevent AIDS is just as irresponsible as the abstinence crowd. The claim can be made that condoms do reduce the chances of contracting AIDS.

43 posted on 01/20/2004 6:28:33 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: RobbyS
You think many 16-year old kids will bother to use them correctly?

No, I don't. I don't expect anyone to use them correctly.

44 posted on 01/20/2004 6:35:47 PM PST by ReagansShinyHair
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To: CAtholic Family Association
Well, thanks for that big block of data, but it seems even the statistics you provide yourself are in total disagreement.

Looking at your data, we can't be certain if the failure rate is 14%, 45%, 23%, 71%, 10%, 33%, or none of the above.

And I'd still like to know which study you were citing when you claimed it was 20%, because I didn't see that figure listed among the studies you posted.

45 posted on 01/21/2004 4:30:25 AM PST by tdadams
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To: antiRepublicrat
IIRC, in their "research" they filled condoms with a fluid containing millions of microscopic balls the size of the virus. They delcared that condoms won't stop transmission of the virus when they found that after several hours some of the capsules had permeated the latex.

This shows that it could possibly happen, not what the odds are that it would happen.

This is similar to using research results of developing an amino acid chain from electrifying a simulated "primordial soup" to say that the chains could have formed without direction. It doesn't say they did or would or what the odds are, just that it is possible.

Shalom.

46 posted on 01/21/2004 6:52:07 AM PST by ArGee (Scientific reasoning makes it easier to support gross immorality.)
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To: CAtholic Family Association
1995 American Journal of Epidemiology article, reported a Brazilian study of 204 heterosexual couples, each comprising of an HIV-positive man and an uninfected woman. Among couples who used condoms 100% of the time, 23% of the women were infected with HIV.

Just where, in Heaven's name, did they find the test sample?

Whenever someone tells you that condoms are effective at controlling the spread of AIDS, you can generally shut the conversation down by asking, "Oh, is your partner HIV positive?" Only a nutcase would knowingly risk exposure to the disease by just putting a little rubber balloon on his (or her partner's)penis.

Shalom.

47 posted on 01/21/2004 7:03:57 AM PST by ArGee (Scientific reasoning makes it easier to support gross immorality.)
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To: ArGee
This shows that it could possibly happen, not what the odds are that it would happen.

But they then spun the results to say that condoms don't work at all to conform with their agenda.

Abstinence is a good idea, but these people shame themselves with all of their lies and deceit. The fact that abstinence is the only way to prevent STDs should be able to speak for itself.

48 posted on 01/21/2004 7:06:41 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: ArGee
I have to agree, why on earth would anyone with half a brain, tie his mortality to a statistical study of condoms with any percentage of risk. If it is one tenth of one percent risk, I wouldn't be testing it, but then who am I.
49 posted on 01/21/2004 7:37:30 AM PST by wita (truthspeaks@freerepublic.com)
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To: little jeremiah
New Research Shows Dangers of Condoms in HIV Prevention

Too bad. Doesn't fit into homosexual/pro-promiscuity agenda. Will be thrown out.

50 posted on 01/23/2004 3:27:10 PM PST by Terriergal ("arise...kill...eat." Acts 10:13)
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