Scientist claims to explain parting of the waves

Ananova ^ | Wednesday 21st January 2004

[presidio9]

A Russian mathematician says he's come up with a logical explanation for Moses' parting of the waves.

Naum Wolzinger says it had more to do with the changing of the tide than divine intervention.

The scene where Moses parts the waves and leads the Israelites across the Red Sea is one of the most well known stories in the Bible.

But Mr Wolzinger, from St Petersburg, said it was not a miracle.

He says there is a riff six or seven metres under the water that runs from one bank of the Gulf of Suez to the other at the spot where the Exodus occurred.

He said depending on the movement of the tides and if there was a strong wind it was possible to cross the Red Sea keeping your feet almost dry.

A drop in the wind though and the water would flood back over the riff in large waves, explaining why they would have come crashing down on the Egyptians when they entered the seabed.

[My2Cents]

The low tide occurred just as the Egyptian army was about to slaughter the Hebrews. Good timing. Still a miracle.

[farmfriend]

ping

[CindyDawg]

So now we know how He may have done it. Nice try though.

[Voltage]

Wouldn't they get stuck in the mud, or does his theory explain why the bottom was nice and solid?

[Sloth]

#1.) This is hardly a new hypothesis, and #2.) "So the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea on the dry ground, and the waters were a wall to them on their right hand and on their left." -- Exodus 14:22

[presidio9]

[Ancesthntr]

The low tide occurred just as the Egyptian army was about to slaughter the Hebrews. Good timing. Still a miracle.

Yes, especially since it "fortuitously" followed the 10 plagues - all of which can be explained as natural events - and was itself followed by the Pharoah's army being swallowed up in the same sea. What we have here is several miracles.

The fact is that G-d oftentimes uses what we call "natural forces" to produce a miracle. It is the conjunction of those improbable events with the need for them by a faithful person or people that gives rise to a miracle.

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

Wouldn't they get stuck in the mud, or does his theory explain why the bottom was nice and solid?

His theory also states that they had early versions of mudbog derby jackasses to haul their possessions across the Red Sea.

[RiflemanSharpe]

God did it, it does not matter how. He just did.

[presidio9]

Digging Out The Truth Of Exodus

[RandallFlagg]

Sorry. I couldn't resist...


I'm just in one of those moods...

Carry on..

[RightWhale]

why the bottom was nice and solid?

Solid theology, can't get bogged down with the 72 names of God. The Muslims later with their 99 names of God tried to improve on that with the obvious results--schisms and sects and terrorists. Christians improved with the Trinity. Mess with the Father, mess with the Son, but don't even think of messing with the Holy Ghost.

[Williams]

I'm more interested in how "scientists" earn a living and get publicity by "studying" for the umpteenth time pointless issues with no practical application whatsoever. My favorite was the scientist on Animal Planet who rigged up a device stuck through a snake's head that "recorded" when the snake struck at a doll. The scientist said this was the first recorded signal from a snake strike. The culmination of SEVEN YEARS' WORK.

[My2Cents]

I once heard someone explain that low-tide on the "Sea of Reeds" (some people's identity of the Red Sea) often results in a water depth of two inches, making it easy for a large group of people to traverse. In response, another person said, "The entire Egyptian army drown in two-inches of water! It's a miracle!"

[Professional Engineer]

ping

[vetvetdoug]

Dr. Ruskie, now prove your hypothesis, especially with an Army on your butt.

[Yehuda]

"He says there is a riff ..."

was this a jazz riff or a blues riff?


".."six or seven metres "

in 6/7 time?

[Elsie]

He said depending on the movement of the tides and if there was a strong wind it was possible to cross the Red Sea keeping your feet almost dry.

Ya need to polish that 'theory' just a tiny bit more........

---

Exodus 14:21-22
21. Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and all that night the LORD drove the sea back with a strong east wind and turned it into dry land. The waters were divided,
22. and the Israelites went through the sea on dry ground, with a wall of water on their right and on their left.

[r9etb]

The fact is that G-d oftentimes uses what we call "natural forces" to produce a miracle.

The argument is, apparently, that God is not allowed to use natural forces to do whatever He does. Very convenient for those who do not have eyes to see.

It is the conjunction of those improbable events with the need for them by a faithful person or people that gives rise to a miracle.

Precisely.

My own personal example is the time I was in a narrow, crowded, construction barrier-lined corridor on the freeway, in the left-hand lane. Some bozo came onto the freeway from an on-ramp, going about 20 mph, right in front of some other guy. Cars started to veer and skid, and there was a car coming toward me. I was trapped, and a wreck was unavoidable, involving me, the other car, and the barrier.

Suddenly, the barrier wall opened up to another lane, and allowed me to move over to my left. The new lane was just long enough for me to avoid the wreck, and pull back onto the freeway.

When I passed that spot a couple of weeks later, the opening was not there, and there was no sign it had ever been there.

Miracle? I think so. (Coincidentally, my wife and kids were praying for me at about that time to have a safe trip....)

[presidio9]

"But the Israelites went through the sea on dry ground, with a wall of water on their right and on their left." -Exodus 14:29

[Califelephant]

God works in mysterious ways. Another "natural miracle" took place when Atila the Hun was about to invade Rome. Pope Leo I interceded with prayer and diplomacy. At about the same time, Attila's army was hit with a bad case of some kind of plague (possibly malaria). For this and other reasons, Attila withdrew and Rome was saved.

[Finalapproach29er]

Behold, His mighty hand!

[Lazamataz]

He says there is a riff six or seven metres under the water that runs from one bank of the Gulf of Suez to the other at the spot where the Exodus occurred. He said depending on the movement of the tides and if there was a strong wind it was possible to cross the Red Sea keeping your feet almost dry. A drop in the wind though and the water would flood back over the riff in large waves, explaining why they would have come crashing down on the Egyptians when they entered the seabed.

And it was all just a big honkin' coincidence that it happened right when Moses commanded it.

Scientists can be real morons sometimes.

[mywholebodyisaweapon]

Yeah. Sad that Prof. Wolzinger will become a believer some day -- the hard way, too late!

[RightWhale]

depending on the movement of the tides and if there was a strong wind it was possible to cross the Red Sea keeping your feet almost dry.

It would aid the scientist's hypothesis if he or someone has actually recently observed this happening at some time.

[winodog]

Yes maybe everyone would be happier if God had snappend his fingers and a huge hoover dam popped up then as the last hebrew crossed the dam were to vanish.

[MississippiMan]

I've seen variants of this explanation offered up before. IIRC, this underwater "bridge" is a hard reef of some sort. As others have already pointed out, maybe this is how God chose to do it. Still a miracle of course. Or maybe this brilliant scientist would like to recreate the event as it happened, allowing the Israelites to cross precisely when they needed to, then bringing the water back in on the Egyptians precisely when they needed to be stopped. :-)

MM

[Sacajaweau]

Heard this about 30 years ago from a theology student. The truth is...believe what you wish.

[steve8714]

seven years federal funding...

[ZULU]

EXACTLY. Knowing the "how" doesn't necessarily answer the "why".

This is the trap the - gasp - dare I say it - dare I start another thread lost in the morass of EVOLUTION?? Yes. I'll say it.

This is the trap that athestic scientists who study evolution fall into. Evolution is a scientific fact. Species change over time from one species to another. Scientists believe this is due to natural selection action to favor certain genetic changes to a greater degree in certain environments as these environments changes. So far so good. Then the scientists say ergo, man is the product of a series of accidents and that God didn't create him.
They confuse the "how" with the "why".

[El Gran Salseron]

So Moses didn't raise his "stick" and part the Red Sea?

What he did was raise his "stick" so that the winds would blow the tides out? Sounds good to me! Either way it works out. :-)

You mean Charlton Heston wasn't really there?

I'm SHOCKED, I tell you.....just SHOCKED!

[JOAT]

He says there is a riff six or seven metres under the water that runs from one bank of the Gulf of Suez to the other at the spot where the Exodus occurred.

So the wind blew strongly enough to part the water to a depth of over 20 FEET and the Israelites could still stand up and walk along?

The underwater bridge is a well-documented fact. One now deceased researcher photographed the gold overlays of chariot wheels that were unique to that period of Egyptian history on that bridge, along with coral encrusted skulls.

[El Gran Salseron]

My brother is a scuba diver and a very religious person. He claims that researchers have sent down camera robots in the Red Sea and these cameras have recorded what appears to be decayed chariot pieces.

[My2Cents]

I think it's fair to say that scientists are trained to ask "How?", not to ask "Why?" That is left to the philosophers and the theologians. This being said, the scientists would be well to stick to "How?" and not delve into "Why?", where they are ill-equipped to intelligently speculate.

[plain talk]

Evolution is a scientific fact.

Right, they have a theory they claim as fact. Amazing how sure man can be on selective topics.

[Ranxerox]

And it was all just a big honkin' coincidence that it happened right when Moses commanded it. Scientists can be real morons sometimes.

IIRC the Israelites pulled off a similar "miraculous coincidence" when crossing the Jordan for the first time.

[JOAT]

IIRC the Israelites pulled off a similar "miraculous coincidence" when crossing the Jordan for the first time.

Correct. Also when Elijah and Elisha were preparing for the transition between them, when Elijah was taken up in a fiery chariot to heaven.

[FourPeas]

Scientist claims to explain parting of the waves

Whoa, what a coincidence, I can, too. My explanations just a bit more plausable, though: God.

[JOAT]

Also when Elijah and Elisha were preparing for the transition between them, when Elijah was taken up in a fiery chariot to heaven.

2 Kings 2:6-15

6 Then Elijah said to him, "Stay here; the LORD has sent me to the Jordan."
And he replied, "As surely as the LORD lives and as you live, I will not leave you." So the two of them walked on.
7 Fifty men of the company of the prophets went and stood at a distance, facing the place where Elijah and Elisha had stopped at the Jordan.
8 Elijah took his cloak, rolled it up and struck the water with it. The water divided to the right and to the left, and the two of them crossed over on dry ground.
9 When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, "Tell me, what can I do for you before I am taken from you?" "Let me inherit a double portion of your spirit," Elisha replied.
10 "You have asked a difficult thing," Elijah said, "yet if you see me when I am taken from you, it will be yours-otherwise not."
11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
12 Elisha saw this and cried out, "My father! My father! The chariots and horsemen of Israel!" And Elisha saw him no more. Then he took hold of his own clothes and tore them apart.
13 He picked up the cloak that had fallen from Elijah and went back and stood on the bank of the Jordan.
14 Then he took the cloak that had fallen from him and struck the water with it. "Where now is the LORD , the God of Elijah?" he asked. When he struck the water, it divided to the right and to the left, and he crossed over.
15 The company of the prophets from Jericho, who were watching, said, "The spirit of Elijah is resting on Elisha." And they went to meet him and bowed to the ground before him.

That funny Jordan river just kept parting, on at least 3 occasions, and the people in question were walking on dry ground. Not almost dry.

[JOAT]

Joshua 3:13-17

13 And as soon as the priests who carry the ark of the LORD -the Lord of all the earth-set foot in the Jordan, its waters flowing downstream will be cut off and stand up in a heap."
14 So when the people broke camp to cross the Jordan, the priests carrying the ark of the covenant went ahead of them.
15 Now the Jordan is at flood stage all during harvest. Yet as soon as the priests who carried the ark reached the Jordan and their feet touched the water's edge,
16 the water from upstream stopped flowing. It piled up in a heap a great distance away, at a town called Adam in the vicinity of Zarethan, while the water flowing down to the Sea of the Arabah (the Salt Sea [2] ) was completely cut off. So the people crossed over opposite Jericho.
17 The priests who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD stood firm on dry ground in the middle of the Jordan, while all Israel passed by until the whole nation had completed the crossing on dry ground.

[telebob]

"It would aid the scientist's hypothesis if he or someone has actually recently observed this happening at some time."

Check. If it were true it would be a regularly observed phenomena, enshrined in the local folklore, taken advantage of by the local fishermen and photographed by the tourists.

Nova would have a special on it and National Geographic would devote an issue...

It would also have a really snappy name.

[txhurl]

Hey, man I am having the weirdest thing happen to me. A 1/10th full gallon of milk on the top shelf in the fridge, when pushed to the side of the fridge, slides right back to its position. I'm not kidding and I can't find any physical laws which could enable this. This is happening in my grandmother's fridge. It slides back for her, too.

[BikerTrash]

Scientist claims to explain parting of the waves

Godless commie shoots mouth off like an idiot.

[ZULU]

I agree. You put it more succinctly than I.

[RightWhale]

It might be noted that this miraculous event happened several 1000 years ago when the sea level seems to have been lower. If we are at the beginning of a new ice age we might yet observe the phenomenon as sea level falls again and New York is buried under a mile of ice. Worth waiting for.

[ZULU]

Evolution is a "Theory" and not a "Law" because the mechanics of how it actually occurs is still open to study, debate and definition. It can't become a "Law" until all aspects of how it opeates are satisfactorily defined.

No one contests "Boyle's Law". The behavior of a gas has been studied and quantifiably described in laboratory experiments. Trying to prove Evolution in a Laboratory is obviously difficult on the macro-scale, but has been reasonably approximated on the microscale level. In no way does this however detract from the scientifically accepted validity of this "Theory". These are distinctions which are not obvious to the layman as "theory" has a different connotation in conversational English than it does in scientific jargon.

Its sort of like confusing "militia" in the Second Amendment with Militia as in the National Guard. Same word, two different nuances.

[MississippiMan]

He claims that researchers have sent down camera robots in the Red Sea and these cameras have recorded what appears to be decayed chariot pieces.

I've seen videos of that same thing, and if they're not chariot wheels, I don't know what the heck they are. Fascinating stuff.

MM

[IronJack]

"If it wasn't for my lucky astrology mood watch, I'd have NOTHING to believe in!"

--- Steve Martin

[LiteKeeper]

INTREP - Of course, he is able to repeat this scientific observation and to test it confirm his "SPECULATIONS"