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To: Luis Gonzalez; Dajjal; Yehuda; yonif; ml/nj; papertyger; PattonReincarnated; F16Fighter; ...
It seems that Daniel Pipes disagrees with you as well.

Daniel Pipes is in an official capacity. He's director of the Peace Institute. Not only that, but even his own kindly position is decried as being genocidal by CAIR and AMC, and their likes -- simply because he accuses them of not being moderate.

You asked me to disagree with particulars, so I am:

You are the enemy, right along with Islamic extremists.

Why is demanding that moderates be counted either as being with us or against us a threat to you? You can say you disagree and why, but why call me the enemy? Sometimes people get angry at those who want to kill them, Luis. To me you sound like you want to dampen that anger. That's fine, you're trying to show the face of reason and logic. I'm not feeling very logical about this problem. But why call me the enemy?

You will not be allowed to involve the 90% of the world's Muslims and Christians who haven't the slightest desire to involve themselves in a "war of religions" to turn this planet into a massive slaughterhouse of religious warfare.

You're assuming I want that. I'm just saying that I doubt that we will gain an advantage by trying not to offend the Muslims. I also disagree with you about the issue of Muslim moderate eschatology. It's more of a problem than you think, and there is plenty of scholarship to back up that claim. I also disagree that the Christians or the Judaists are the problem here. You know the word "reform" because you were raised in a Christian culture. It means something here. You can only dream of it reforming in the east. I'm just saying I hope it happens but I don't think I'm going to bet on it. What then?

You will be stopped from doing that, as Islamic extremist will be stopped from doing the same, you both have the same goal in mind.

I still don't know what you're talking about here, so it's hard to respond. I have the survival of my people in mind, and I'm beyond the point where I can trust that moderate Islam will solve our problems. It seems the burden of proof is on them and on you in that case. I'm saying I don't feel safe. You're demanding that I do behave as if I am safe, and I do not accept your demand. My conclusion requires that I state that we are not safe, and that we must be prepared to accept the results of that failure. If you feel safe, then enjoy it! Why waste you're time trying to make me feel safer?

I don't give a rat's ass about your "newcomer to this land" crap, I am on this land, and I have every right and privilege that you enjoy, the only exception being the fact that I am not allowed to be president. This land is my children's land, and I will protect them from the narrow point of view exhibited by you, regardless of who you yearn to engage in a war of religions, the only possible outcome of such a war being the situation we witness in Israel daily.

First of all, I have no interest in a war of religions. Second, you're again saying that you feel safer from the threat of global warfare if you avoid riling up the moderates and tilting the battle toward a global scale. That tells me a lot. You're afraid, too. You know that if those people get angrier (as if that could be possible) then your children could be at risk. You have a strategy to feel safe. Good for you. It may not work. Then what? In any case, you are a newcomer. I doubt your sincerity, and I'm free to do that. I don't think you've sacrificed much for this country. I think you're pumped full of love and sunshine about all religions getting along with each other in the land of Oz. That's great, but the experiment is falling apart. Certain aspects of it are probably going to change now. I'm sorry if you're unahppy -- your party of love and reconcilliation is failing to materialize. The west needs to learn one thing and learn it quickly: there can be no tolerance for intolerance. If anything, that's just a matter of recollection. We saw it with WWII and the Germans and Japanese. Of course we're being accused of stupendous inhumanity now because we used incindiary and nuclear bombs on populations that were totally sworn to our destruction. Maybe you'd care to join in with the cacaphony of hate?

In order for good people to survive, extremist must not be allowed to run amok, you are every bit the extremist that they are.

Spoken like a true appeaser. You're unhappy that I'm more militant than you are, so you blame me for the war.

Call me what you may, but you will be stopped, and common sense will spite of your best efforts.

Stopped from what? Pointing out that just minding my own business as a free thinking member of a democratic society that refuses to convert to Islam may one day become a liability if I don't point out to my fellow citizens that the end of our freedoms may be near if we don't act? I'm sorry, but I'm not singing Kumbaya anymore, Luis.

121 posted on 01/24/2004 10:47:35 PM PST by risk
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To: risk
In other words, you just dismissed the man's opinion, unquestionably one of the best-informed sources on the Middle East in the U.S., written prior to his having gained any political post, as being politicized?

Are you suggesting that Pipes had foreknowledge of his upcoming appointment, and thus, slanted his views accordingly?


"Why is demanding that moderates be counted either as being with us or against us a threat to you?"

I am growing quite tired of this practice of yours of pissing on my leg, then telling me that it's raining.

You responded to my arguments, by insulting me, and "reminding me" that I should be mindful of my place in this nation as a "newcomer".

"I might remind you that you are a newcomer to this land. You are here reaping the benefits of sacrifice and zealous blows to the enemies of freedom dealt by my people for more than 350 years."

Kiss my ass.

You then called me a traitor.

Kiss my ass.

You throw the word "reconquista" in to once again, remind me of my place, not realizing that the word "reconquista" originated in Spain, and described the taking back of Spanish lands conquered by Muslims.

Along the way, you have been so damned full of yourself, that you have failed to notice that you actually have no disagreement with me.

However, in light of your insulting tone, your calling me a traitor, and your need to remind me to "mind my place", for my unforgivable temerity at being uppity enough to believe that I too can exercise my right to free speech, I called you for what you are...kit and kin to Islamic extremists, every bit as intolerant of dissenting voices as you accuse them of being, and every bit as dangerous.

123 posted on 01/24/2004 11:08:09 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: risk
Calling in reinforcements?
125 posted on 01/24/2004 11:10:22 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: risk
Bloody borders bump.

Perhaps our strategy will be successful and America will convert the world of islam into a peace loving paragon of modernity.

But, I wouldn't bet on it.

The Arab world is the worst and most backwards, next to the Jihadi cesspool of Pakistan. But Pakistan may change, due to GEOTV, showing Indian programs and prompting a lot of wistful nostalgia for the common entertainment cultures of the two countries and Musharraf's recent come to the light moment(s).

152 posted on 01/25/2004 12:05:48 PM PST by swarthyguy
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