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To: risk
"Are you sure you're not making the mistake your forebears did when they allowed themselves to be conquered in the first place?"

I'm not even making the mistake of mistaking you for an intelligent individual any longer.

Interestingly enough, you left your statements stand, leading me to believe that indeed, you A) consider the exercise of an individual's First Amendment rights to be treason, and B) you believe that I should not get so uppity as to forget "my place", and attempt to rise above my station in relation to real Americans.

Well, real Americans don't behave in the manner that you behave, real Americans believe in the America of Ronald Reagan, and America where "anyone, from any corner of the world, can come to live in the United States and become an American."..."become an American", not by accident of birth, but as a result of a desire to be free; so I became an American, and along the way, I gained a deep understanding of just how wrong your thought process is.

I also have the advantage of having actually seen just how wrong this thought process of yours can lead a people, by way of living through the fall of my native country (albeit as a very young man) to a despot, who disguising himself as a fighter for freedom and against evil, instead raised evil as a standard. He was aided and abetted by people such as yourself, who failed to recognize the deeper evil behind his intentions. I see the deeper evil behind extreme Islam's intentions, as I see people such as yourself aiding in abetting them by fanning the fires of civilizational strife.

The truth of the matter is that militant Islam is a new movement among Muslims, that it continues to be a minority within the Islamic world community, and that your "wait and see" attitude of standing by idly while Muslims solve their own problem is diametrically opposite to the actual solution to the issue. We are not the first victims of Muslim extremism, moderate Muslims, the vast majority of the adherents, are, and in order to eradicate the growth of Islams, we need to be deeply involved in helping the moderates succeed.

I do not adhere to the notion of standing by and waiting for them to solve the problems within their culture, because I believe, like Edmund Burke believed, that "all that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."...good men will prevail, on their side and on ours, in spite of your best efforts.

So, you go right ahead and do nothing...I will continue to do something; and the molds seem to fit each one of us perfectly.

129 posted on 01/25/2004 7:52:09 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez; dennisw; A. Pole; SauronOfMordor; P.O.E.; marron; Helms; swarthyguy; papertyger; ...
A) consider the exercise of an individual's First Amendment rights to be treason, and B) you believe that I should not get so uppity as to forget "my place", and attempt to rise above my station in relation to real Americans.

Ganelon, there's a difference between what you're doing and what the Rosenbergs did. You're not giving secrets to our enemies or sabotaging our physical defenses. What you are doing is downplaying the threat that Islam and pan-Arab nationalism represent to our national integrity.

In 778, Charlemagne had to leave behind a small group of troops to defend a pass in the Pyreneese mountains. He instructed neighboring allies to come to their rescue if the Moors were to attack.

Attack they did, and Roland blew his horn calling out for help.

Ganelon cried that Roland was merely hunting, when actually he was summoning forces to defend against the 400,000 attacking Moores at Roncesvalles. Because Ganelon purposefully mischaracterized his comrades' alarm, Spain fell. The story is best told here.

Ganelon, can you read this? Please translate it for us:

Aquí clamó a sus escuderos Carlos el enperante;
"Sacat al arçobispo desta mortaldade!
Levemos le a su terra a Flanderes la ciudade."
El enperador andava catando por la mortaldade;
vido en la plaça Oliveros o yace,
el escudo crebantado por medio del braçale;
non vió sano en eyll quanto un dinero vale;
Tornado yaze a orient, como lo puso Roldane.

* * * * *

Con vuestro esfuerço ariba entramos en Espayna.
matastes los moros e las te ras ganastes largas,
adobé los caminos del apóstol Santiago,
non conquis a Çaragoça, ont me ferió tal lançada.

­Con tal duelo estó, sobrino, agora non fues bivo!
Agora ploguies al Criador, a mi seynnor Jhesu-Xristo
que finase en este logar, que me levase contigo.
D' aquestos muertos que aquí tengo conmigo
dizir me ías las nuevas, cada uno cómo fizo.
El rey quando est dixo, cayó esmortecido. 
Another singing of the story is Song of Roland with a set of verses about Ganelon.

I've heard that in the Pyreneese mountains, they sometimes still hear a lonely horn blowing in the night. Luis, the horn is blowing. You're telling us not to listen to it. Wake up, Ganelon. History will not be kind to you.

155 posted on 01/25/2004 2:55:45 PM PST by risk (For mighty blows let our arms be strung, lest songs of scorn be against us sung.)
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