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Mexican Army Incursions Into The United States
The Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus ^

Posted on 01/24/2004 9:54:01 AM PST by Happy2BMe

Incursions

During his travels along the border, Rep. Tancredo learned that the Mexican Army and Law Enforcement Agencies routinely make "incursions" into the U.S. A total of 23 were confirmed by the U.S. government in 2001, and there have been over 115 since 1996. The purpose of these incursions is not totally understood, but U.S. officials have speculated that they are designed to help facilitate the flow of illegal drugs into America, either by creating a diversion or by providing cover for the traffickers.

When Rep. Tancredo sent a letter to the Mexican government, the Embassy in Washington, DC sent a curt response to his inquiry, implying that the troops were merely getting lost. Not a single U.S. law enforcement agent on the ground in the southwest has agreed with that explanation.

Rep. Tancredo’s office has begun documenting new incursions as they take place. Most recently, two disturbing incursions have taken place. On May 17th, a Mexican Army unit led an incursion near Ajo, Arizona that ended with a shot being fired at a Border Patrol Agent. The agent was not hurt, but had two of his vehicle’s windows shot out. On June 14th, the Mexican Army opened fire (with high-powered .308 rifles) on a vehicle with 20 people packed into it. Six of the passengers were injured, two critically.

Despite Rep. Tancredo’s efforts to draw attention to them, each incident received only spotty coverage. You can read the accounts of each incident by following these links:

May 17th Incursion:
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020513-27549872.htm http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020523-865103.htm

June 14th Incursion:
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020615-91529269.htm

The issue of incursions needs to be confronted by the U.S. government before a catastrophic incident involving the loss of life occurs. If you have specific information about an incursion by Mexican military or law enforcement, please contact Rep. Tancredo’s office at (202) 225-7882 or tom.tancredo@mail.house.gov. You will remain anonymous.



TOPICS: Extended News; Mexico
KEYWORDS: aliens; border; immigrantlist; incursions; invasion; mexicanarmy; mexico; reconquista
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To: G.Mason
What I am saying is that if the Mexican military sets foot on American soil, without express approval by the government of the United States, we have an invasion.

They've done that --- but if you saw the border you'd see how they could do that inadvertantly or in hot pursuit. In some areas there isn't much that tells you exactly where the border is. I used to ride my horse back and forth over the border until that area became very dangerous, there were areas where it was nothing more than a barbed wire laying on the ground and I think much of it is still like that.

51 posted on 01/24/2004 1:37:07 PM PST by FITZ
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To: FITZ
"Have you ever once talked with a border patrol agent who works along the Mexican border? You'd be surprised. Unless you think they're all liars."

You can skirt the issue of "proof" all you want. I does not make it a fact that the Mexican military has "invaded" the United States.

I ask for documentation, not hearsay.

52 posted on 01/24/2004 1:37:49 PM PST by G.Mason ("The secret to success is knowing who to blame for your failures" - Old Democrat saying)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
"Try this link as a starting point. I believe there are also some articles here on FR."

I made no allegation the Mexican Army invaded the U.S..

I need no "staring" point.

53 posted on 01/24/2004 1:39:50 PM PST by G.Mason ("The secret to success is knowing who to blame for your failures" - Old Democrat saying)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
"Try this link as a starting point. I believe there are also some articles here on FR."

I made no allegation the Mexican Army invaded the U.S..

I need no "starting" point.

54 posted on 01/24/2004 1:40:25 PM PST by G.Mason ("The secret to success is knowing who to blame for your failures" - Old Democrat saying)
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To: G.Mason
And from what I've been able to observe, it won't be solidly evidenced until - and you're right - one of them is shot on the spot and it's put on the 6 O'Clock News, because it sure as hell doesn't seem like Washington has too much concern over it.
55 posted on 01/24/2004 1:48:42 PM PST by Viking2002
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To: Zipporah
"There's no question in my mind that some of them take these documents knowing full well that they are fraudulent," Suthers said.

And just how are they supposed to know that the documents are phony? The bearer is nervous, perhaps, or "sneaky looking"?

A registration system with an on-line database for employer reference would remove all doubt about the legal status of an individual with a certain name, birthdate and place of origin, but how do you know the person in front of you is the same one in the papers?.

We can't require small business owners to get fingerprint or retina scanners, digital cameras with facial recognition software or DNA testing equipment.

And a chip implant in the legal workers would really raise a stink!

56 posted on 01/24/2004 1:49:23 PM PST by JimRed (Disinformation is the leftist's and enemy's friend; consider the source before believing.)
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To: G.Mason
Others have given you that --- go back and reread the article from the El Paso Times by Diana Washington Valdez --- someone posted the link for that.
57 posted on 01/24/2004 1:55:16 PM PST by FITZ
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To: G.Mason
"The U.S. attorney's office in El Paso will not prosecute the Mexican police officers who crossed the border illegally Sunday at Fabens while chasing a suspect, Assistant U.S. Attorney Sam Ponder said Monday.
The officers were turned over to Mexican officials Sunday night, and their seized vehicle and weapons were returned Monday, U.S. officials said.
"These things do happen ... we don't want them to happen," Ponder said. "Americans (in law enforcement) have been released to us by Mexico before, and we want to continue getting them released. They (Mexican authorities) could also prosecute our people when this happens. It's a two-way street."

March 14 of this year, two Humvees loaded with Mexican soldiers crossed the border illegally near the Sunland Park landfill and chased Border Patrol agents patrolling the area.
Some Mexican soldiers allegedly fired shots at Border Patrol agents before fleeing back to Mexico. Other soldiers were detained and released later by U.S. officials.
A U.S. investigation into that incursion continues.

58 posted on 01/24/2004 2:00:18 PM PST by FITZ
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To: G.Mason
I agree.. it is an invasion. Apparently the Border Guards have been shot upon and it's not being reported in the mainstream press. I understand why you are dubious. It sounds incredible but I've learned since I've been on the journey of research re the immigration issue, that the possibility of Mexican soldiers crossing the border is far from fantasty.
59 posted on 01/24/2004 2:00:55 PM PST by Zipporah (Write inTancredo in 2004)
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To: JimRed
Good question but how do we know anyone's documents are phony? And what does it matter if the use of the matricular consular is acceptable? They have created a monster and it's running amuck.
60 posted on 01/24/2004 2:08:48 PM PST by Zipporah (Write inTancredo in 2004)
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To: Quix
Wellllllllll, there WERE Germans in Mexico at the time!

Yeah, but not 100,000+ soldiers ready to storm across the friggin' Rio Grande. THAT is what the story was.

61 posted on 01/24/2004 3:38:30 PM PST by Poohbah ("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
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To: eskimo
No it is not. Even some of the most poorly equipped military units on the planet have GPS gear.

It may be in the TO&E at the regiment or battalion level, but that doesn't mean (a) that platoon leaders actually get it issued to them, or (b) that the colonel didn't sell it.

Hell, there was a story that a general in the Mexican Air Force black-marketed a couple of F-5s to the Iranians a while back (early 1990s).

And, yes, the border is exceptionally poorly marked. I had a buddy get thoroughly lost a while back after his GPS died--he wound up about three miles into Mexico.

62 posted on 01/24/2004 3:44:30 PM PST by Poohbah ("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
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To: Happy2BMe
bttt
63 posted on 01/24/2004 4:14:56 PM PST by Dante3
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To: Happy2BMe
Rep. Tancredo’s office has begun documenting new incursions as they take place. Most recently, two disturbing incursions have taken place. On May 17th, a Mexican Army unit led an incursion near Ajo, Arizona that ended with a shot being fired at a Border Patrol Agent. The agent was not hurt, but had two of his vehicle’s windows shot out. On June 14th, the Mexican Army opened fire (with high-powered .308 rifles) on a vehicle with 20 people packed into it. Six of the passengers were injured, two critically.

This is an act of war.

64 posted on 01/24/2004 4:52:38 PM PST by TheSpottedOwl (Happy Iraqi Independence Day!!!!)
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To: TheSpottedOwl
"This is an act of war."

And it's been going on for decades.

65 posted on 01/24/2004 4:59:06 PM PST by Happy2BMe (U.S. borders - Controlled by CORRUPT Politicians and Slave-Labor Employers)
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To: FITZ
Correct me if I am offbase here, but wasn't there a case where the Mexican military (not the Federales) killed a U.S. F.B.I. agent on the border in a fire fight?
66 posted on 01/24/2004 5:02:22 PM PST by Happy2BMe (U.S. borders - Controlled by CORRUPT Politicians and Slave-Labor Employers)
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To: Happy2BMe
The issue of incursions needs to be confronted by the U.S. government ... with military force, and charge em for the body bags!
I for one am getting REAL TIRED of being pushed around by the Mexican Government.
Jack
67 posted on 01/24/2004 5:37:48 PM PST by btcusn
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To: Happy2BMe
My guess is that, eventually, a firefight will break out with them: Either with some law enforcement personell or with American civilians. There will likely be casualties. Anyone know what the probable or possible legal outcome would be? Considering treaties, American law, Mexican law, International law and such?
68 posted on 01/24/2004 5:46:25 PM PST by templar
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To: templar; Sabertooth; JackelopeBreeder; B4Ranch; Spiff; Missouri; Ajnin
"My guess is that, eventually, a firefight will break out with them: Either with some law enforcement personell or with American civilians."

In light of the current directives outright muzzling and impeding our Border Patrol from effectively sealing our borders due to the political incorrecntess of such actions, it would not be unreasonable for such an incident never to reach the light of day.

Border Patrol orders agents to restrict forays into cities.

The Plight of the U.S. Border Patrol - INS Being Strapped From Fullfilling It's Job

69 posted on 01/24/2004 5:58:04 PM PST by Happy2BMe (U.S. borders - Controlled by CORRUPT Politicians and Slave-Labor Employers)
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To: All
Border Patrol orders agents to limit patrol areas

70 posted on 01/24/2004 5:59:20 PM PST by Happy2BMe (U.S. borders - Controlled by CORRUPT Politicians and Slave-Labor Employers)
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To: Poohbah
It may be in the TO&E at the regiment or battalion level, but that doesn't mean (a) that platoon leaders actually get it issued to them, or (b) that the colonel didn't sell it.

Yeah, that could be too, but surely not the only reason for 115 incidents in the last 8 years. Some of these have to be planned actions.

71 posted on 01/24/2004 6:09:36 PM PST by eskimo
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To: Happy2BMe
"This is an act of war."

And it's been going on for decades.

What can we do about it? This has to stop.

72 posted on 01/24/2004 6:26:24 PM PST by TheSpottedOwl (Happy Iraqi Independence Day!!!!)
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To: TheSpottedOwl; Spiff; B4Ranch; JackelopeBreeder
"What can we do about it? This has to stop."

For that question, the answer must come from our president. A good place to begin answering some of these questions would be Cochise County, Arizona . .

President Bush - stand up and tell us the truth

73 posted on 01/24/2004 6:31:08 PM PST by Happy2BMe (U.S. borders - Controlled by CORRUPT Politicians and Slave-Labor Employers)
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To: Happy2BMe
Oh my God, where are the tree hugging jackasses? This is disgusting!

Paging President Bush...clean up on aisle 3!
74 posted on 01/24/2004 6:38:11 PM PST by TheSpottedOwl (Happy Iraqi Independence Day!!!!)
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To: Darksheare
MAJOR BUMP SIR!

Shoot first,srtight,often
75 posted on 01/24/2004 6:38:19 PM PST by TMSuchman (sic semper tranis,semper fi! & you can't fix stupid either!)
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To: Happy2BMe
There's nothing wrong with our border problem that can't be fixed by some concertina barbed wire, German shepards, and bounties.
76 posted on 01/24/2004 6:43:08 PM PST by Mulder (Fight the future)
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To: Mulder
"There's nothing wrong with our border problem that can't be fixed by some concertina barbed wire, German shepards, and bounties."

Obviously you are not running for president.

77 posted on 01/24/2004 6:53:55 PM PST by Happy2BMe (U.S. borders - Controlled by CORRUPT Politicians and Slave-Labor Employers)
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To: Happy2BMe
Obviously you are not running for president.

And your point is.... ?

78 posted on 01/24/2004 7:01:11 PM PST by Mulder (Fight the future)
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To: Mulder
Such practical solutions as physically sealing the border with Mexico are not conducive to winning the presidency.
79 posted on 01/24/2004 7:03:01 PM PST by Happy2BMe (U.S. borders - Controlled by CORRUPT Politicians and Slave-Labor Employers)
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To: Happy2BMe
Shoot first, ask questions later.

Trajan88

80 posted on 01/24/2004 7:16:20 PM PST by Trajan88 (www.bullittclub.com)
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To: Happy2BMe
Such practical solutions as physically sealing the border with Mexico are not conducive to winning the presidency

The one-party system that runs this country would never allow a candidate like that to get in a position to prevail.

But I believe a majority of the American people would support sealing the border.

81 posted on 01/24/2004 7:20:05 PM PST by Mulder (Fight the future)
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To: TheSpottedOwl
There are hundreds of spots just like it all over this county. Be glad you can't smell it. Every clump of brush or fold in the ground that offers concealment ends up just like this. Note the absence of porta-potties as well.

The tree huggers do nothing. They do not so much as whimper or even try to clean up the mess. The clean up gets done by neighborhood or corporate volunteer groups. Our government does nothing, but in a show of official largesse provides official trash bags -- in fact, they get snippy if you use unofficial trash bags.

Once bagged, the garbage has to be taken to the dump which is forty to fifty miles away. Admission is not free.

82 posted on 01/24/2004 7:38:17 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: Happy2BMe
Are any of these Mexican troops found mysteriously dead by some unknown cause ?..
or even their vehicles abandoned due to them not working anymore ?
83 posted on 01/24/2004 8:18:11 PM PST by hosepipe
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To: JackelopeBreeder
Soooo, how do we alert Sierra Club, Greenpeace,etc about this gross pollution? I'm serious! Why should us "despoilers of their earth" have to clean up this crap?

Oh yeah, bet it smells like hell. This could be an interesting project for an enterprising individual. Contact enviromental activists and ask them what they plan to do about this problem. Hahahahaha!!! Then publish the results...

Seriously, this sucks.
84 posted on 01/24/2004 9:30:04 PM PST by TheSpottedOwl (Happy Iraqi Independence Day!!!!)
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To: Happy2BMe
bttt
85 posted on 01/25/2004 12:42:52 AM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Zipporah; FITZ; Viking2002; JackelopeBreeder
I thank you for bearing with me while I attempt to get the facts on exactly what is happening here.

Needless to say, if these chargess are true, my perception of this administration is going to change dramatically.

In my mind, the headlines of all newspapers, and all news media "talking heads" should be screaming about this.

86 posted on 01/25/2004 4:03:26 AM PST by G.Mason ("The secret to success is knowing who to blame for your failures" - Old Democrat saying)
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To: Pro-Bush; FairOpinion; FITZ; moehoward; Nea Wood; Joe Hadenuf; sangoo; appalachian_dweller; ...
Rep. Tancredo learned that the Mexican Army and Law Enforcement Agencies routinely make "incursions" into the U.S.

I'd like to see the President do this, mayhaps would open his eyes to the reality of what he wants to 'doom' us to

87 posted on 01/25/2004 2:07:23 PM PST by JustPiper (Register Republican BUT Write-In Tancredo for March !!!!)
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To: JustPiper
I sadly think he knows but will not act to stop it. If he does not then we have to ask why?
88 posted on 01/25/2004 2:08:42 PM PST by RiflemanSharpe (An American for a more socially and fiscally conservation America!)
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To: JustPiper
I'd like to see the President do this, mayhaps would open his eyes to the reality of what he wants to 'doom' us to

Mexico would never have dared do something like this when Eisenhower was president. Back then sovereignty had meaning.

89 posted on 01/25/2004 2:12:47 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: eskimo
Yeah, that could be too, but surely not the only reason for 115 incidents in the last 8 years. Some of these have to be planned actions.

Yes, some are. Like I said, they're escorting drug smugglers in those cases.

Also, a 'Nam vet FReepmailed me and reminded me that when they were shooting at Mr. Charles, or the PAVN, his unit didn't exactly stop at the Cambodian border--if the enemy went across and was still shooting, the CO said "hot pursuit" and continued mission. Some of the Zapatista terrorists are US citizens. (Ready for a real shocker? Some of them are Anglos--they're "Red Diaper Babies" a la Lori Berenson).

90 posted on 01/26/2004 4:53:13 AM PST by Poohbah ("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
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To: TheSpottedOwl; JackelopeBreeder
Contact enviromental activists and ask them what they plan to do about this problem. Hahahahaha!!! Then publish the results...

Hmmm....sue the Southwest Center for Bio-Dumbness for inactive activism? Is there even such a thing in environmental law?

91 posted on 01/26/2004 6:35:54 AM PST by HiJinx (Go with Courage, go with Honor, go in God's good Grace. Come home when you're done. We'll be here.)
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To: G.Mason
I don't know if you've been following this weeks news about the border area --- more proof that Mexican military and police are heavily involved with drug smuggling, torture and murder.

Newest police crime scandal rocks Mexico: Juarez lawmen linked to bodies in back yard

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1068668/posts

Involvement of corrupt police and military units in the lucrative narcotics trade has been a long-standing problem in Mexico.

Successive presidential administrations have for more than a decade routinely purged and reorganized the federal police force, to little avail. Macedo announced earlier this week that another purge of some 900 federal agents was under way.

Similar crackdowns have roiled Mexico's army and navy with about the same results. And state and local police in drug-producing or border states, and along the corridors through which Colombian cocaine is smuggled, are often found to be in the pay of traffickers.

92 posted on 01/31/2004 11:55:08 AM PST by FITZ
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To: FITZ
'I don't know if you've been following this weeks news about the border area --- more proof that Mexican military and police are heavily involved with drug smuggling, torture and murder."

I appreciate the thought, and information.

I have been "educating" myself on this, and must say it is discouraging, to say the least.

We are dying from a thousand cuts.




Regards

93 posted on 01/31/2004 12:44:39 PM PST by G.Mason ("The secret to success is knowing who to blame for your failures" - Old Democrat saying)
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