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Vietnam Veterens vs Vietnam Veterans Against the War
email

Posted on 01/24/2004 8:57:12 PM PST by annyokie

Subject: Re: Vietnam Veterans vs Vietnam Veterans Against the War:

As forwarded by PJ... S/F- Rick

Subject: John Kerry - SEA Hero or "Anti-war Peacenik"?

Folks, inevitably, the course of our military is linked to politics...thus, I will send out messages such as this one - Nena

Courtesy of Mark Berent....

'War Hero' john kerry

I keep hearing “Vietnam Veteran” every time this joker makes a speech. Below adds some perspective.

As Sen. John Kerry, Massachusetts Democrat, [consolidates his]...bid for the White House, Americans should know a few things about him that he might prefer go unmentioned - and I don't mean his $75 haircuts.

When Mr. Kerry pontificated at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial on Veterans Day, a group of veterans turned their backs on him and walked away. They remembered Mr. Kerry as the anti-war activist who testified before Congress during the war, accusing veterans of being war criminals. The dust jacket of Mr. Kerry's pro-Hanoi book, "The New Soldier," features a photograph of his ragged band of radicals mocking the U.S. Marine Corps Memorial, which depicts the flag raising on Iwo Jima, with an upside-down American flag.

Retired Gen. George S. Patton III charged that Mr. Kerry's actions as an anti-war activist had "given aid and comfort to the enemy," as had the actions of Ramsey Clark and Jane Fonda. Also, Mr. Kerry lied when he threw what he claimed were his war medals over the White House fence; he later admitted they weren't his. [The ones he received are] now...displayed on his office wall.

Long after he changed sides in congressional hearings, Mr. Kerry lobbied for renewed trade relations with Hanoi. [Interestingly] at the same time, his cousin C. Stewart Forbes, chief executive for Colliers International, assisted in brokering a $905 million deal to develop a deep-sea port at Vung Tau, Vietnam - an odd coincidence.

As noted in the Inside Politics column of Nov. 14 (Nation), historian Douglas Brinkley is writing Mr. Kerry's biography. Hopefully, he'll include the senator's latest ignominious feat: preventing the Vietnam Human Rights Act (HR 2833) from coming to a vote in the Senate, claiming human rights would deteriorate as a result. His actions sent a clear signal to Hanoi that Congress cares little about the human rights for which so many Americans fought and died. [Of note], the State Department ranked Vietnam among the 10 regimes worldwide least tolerant of religious freedom.

Recently, 354 churches of the Montagnards, a Christian ethnic minority, were forcibly disbanded, and by mid-October, more than 50 Christian pastors and elders had been arrested in Dak Lak province alone. On Oct. 29, the secret police executed three Montagnards by lethal injection simply for protesting religious repression. The communists are conducting a pogrom against the Montagnards, forcing Christians to drink a mixture of goat's blood and alcohol and renounce Christianity. Thousands have been killed or imprisoned or have just "disappeared." [During the vietnam war] the Montagnards lost one-half of their adult male population fighting for the United States; and without them, there might be thousands more American names on that somber black granite wall at the Vietnam memorial.

As Mr. Kerry…[makes his] run for the presidency, people must remember that he has fought harder for Hanoi as an anti-war activist and a senator than he did against the Vietnamese communists while serving in the Navy in Vietnam.

MICHAEL BENGE, Foreign Service officer and former Vietnam POW (1968 to 1973); Washington

Subject: Kerry stuff I've rec'd in the last week! Some you may have seen; some not!

Veterans Issues First or Out The Door in 2004!! No Compromises!!!!!!!!!

Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 5:14 PM

Subject: Fwd: John Kerry: Presidential Aspirant

I personally know Ray Bowes, he and Pia are good freinds of ours. If he says it, well, you can pretty much bank on it.

BigDoc

On Wednesday, January 21, 2004, at 02:10 PM, Ray Bows wrote:

To all my Vietnam Veteran Brothers

Ref: John Kerry

What about Kerry's status of making political ads at the apex of the

Vietnam Memorial? What about his using the disenfranchised of the Boston

Vietnam Veterans Shelter (many who are not Nam Vets), who he bussed to his

rallies to represent Vietnam Vetrans who support him, during a previous

Senatorial campaign against Jim Rappaport? - What about his involvement in

the Detroit Winter Soldier Trials? Was it his idea to have actors portray

Vietnam Vets in atrocity situations - using real names of vets without

their knowledge and ficticious crimes against the Vietnamese, or did he

just go along with it? - Who has seen copies of Kerry's "Silver Star and

Bronze Star" citations? I requested them years ago and was denied access

to them! I will not monger any rumors I have heard - but this too need

serious investigation! "What about his anouncement at a Boston College

that if the Vietnamese had "lied and lied and lied and lied" (his quote)

that the Vietnamese would never receive aid from the US! He pretty much

sealed the fate of all POWs with that one!

These are my spur of the moment questions to my brothers, but I will dig

out my notes. This guy has used and manipulated Vietnam Veterans and

there causes for years. He needs to be stopped. We do not need another

president of Clinton's caliber in the White House, who has Vietnam Vet

status to boot! God help us all, and all Vietnam Veterans particularly,

but only if we as Vietnam Veterans help ourselves in stopping this guy!

In Brotherhood, A staunch Independant and Vietnam Veteran

Ray Bows, M/Sgt US Army (ret.)

author VIETNAM MILITARY LORE - LEGENDS, SHADOWS AND HEROES

PS: I am at the Library right now and only had a moment to transmit -

Please get the word out and please get back to me!

From: RBalbaton@aol.com

To: peacebwu3@juno.com

Subject: Fwd: John Kerry: Presidential Aspirant

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:30:30 EST

Subject: John Kerry: Presidential Aspirant

Reply-To: Henry Mark Holzer

I JUST SENT THE FOLLOWING EMAIL TO JAMES BATES, REPORTER AT THE LOS

ANGELES TIMES, WHO LAST WEEK BROKE THE STORY (SENT TO ALL OF YOU)

ABOUT THE NEW PRESIDENT OF THE WRITERS GUILD OF AMERICA WEST.

POLITICS IS ONE THING, BUT A MAN SEEKING THE PRESIDENCY OF THE UNITED

STATES WHO WOULD DESECRATE FOR POLITICAL GAIN WAR MEDALS, EVEN IF

LEGITIMATELY WON, DESERVES OUR CONTEMPT.

******************************

Jim:

The information you want is at pages 135-136 of Stolen Valor by

Burkett and Whitley, Verity Press, 1998.

In essence, in April 1971 Vietnam Veterans Against the War held a

demonstration in DC called Dewey Canyon III. Kerry was an organizer

and leader. According to Burkett and Whitley, "Kerry flung a handful

of medals--he had received the Silver Star, a Bronze Star Medal, and

three purple hearts--over the fence [of the Capitol]. * * * But years

later, after his election to the Senate, Kerry's medals turned up on

the wall of his Capitol Hill office. When a reporter noticed them,

Kerry admitted that the medals he had thrown that day were not his."

Burkett and Whitley source this statement with: "Phil Duncan, editor,

"Congressional Quarterly's Politics in America," 102nd Congress, 1992,

p. 678."

If this reportage is true--and I believe that it is--given Kerry's

current status and his aspirations, he deserves a high place in the

pantheon of Fake Warriors and the American public deserve (and need)

to know about his dissembling and political theater. For further

information see Stolen Valor and our book, Fake Warriors: Identifying,

Exposing and Punishing Those Who Falsify Their Military Service

(www.fakewarriors.com).

HENRY MARK HOLZER

Professor Emeritus, Brooklyn Law School

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 7:03 PM Subject: [election2004white_house] Re:

Click here: AOL Presidential Match Main

Issues: . Mexico Border Terrorism-Immigration, Budget, Campaigns/Election . Civil Liberties, Courts/Judiciary, Crime/Police, Defense/Military . Disabilities, Economy, Energy, Foreign Affairs . Guns/Weapons, Health, Immigration, Intelligence, Medicare/Medicaid . Medicine, Nominations, Rural Affairs, Social Security, All Taxes . Veterans Issues, Welfare, Abortion xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry

FYI. . . . >>>

Click here: Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry

http://www.usvetdsp.com/jf_kerry.htm

Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry (Jim Ewart)

--__--__--

Message: 2 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:35:32 -0500 Subject: Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry>

Dave dug up some info on the author of the page. I cut and pasted the info below.

The main page of the site:

http://www.usvetdsp.com/main.shtml

And the bio of the person behind the site:

http://www.usvetdsp.com/sampbio.htm

For those who don't wanna take the time to look, it seems that the man behind this is an ex special forces type who has been a very active POW/MIA advocate for over 30 years.

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In response to the recent revelations and conversations on John Kerry's activities as a leader in the Jane Fonda financed Vietnam Veterans Against The War during the seventies.

START:

Kerry and his compatriots in The Vietnam Veterans Against The War were and ARE a minuscule MINORITY within the Vietnam Veteran community.

Matter of fact,

91% of Vietnam Veterans say they are glad they served.

74% said they would serve again even knowing the outcome.

There is no difference in drug usage between Vietnam Veterans and non veterans of the same age group. (from a Veterans Administration study)

http://www.vhfcn.org/stat.html

Also, the specific alleged "atrocities" that these "combat veterans" (anyone can pin on medals and claim to be anything they like. Lord knows, we have ferreted out far too many of them in the ensuring years who make outlandish claims of heroism, service and sacrifice, and terrible atrocities, only to be "outed" as complete frauds later) recount cannot be verified as factual.

http://www.rjsmith.com/war_myth.html#atrocity

Did atrocities occur in Vietnam? Certainly.

BUT; and here's the rub; they were the EXCEPTION and NOT the rule as Kerry, Fonda, Hayden, et al. would have the world believe.

I would submit that atrocities occur in ALL wars. On each side. The actions of a few undisciplined misfits does not a national policy make.

Conversely, the NAV/VC used atrocities both strategically, tactically, and by prior design, as military and governmental policy.

Now Kerry wraps himself in his Vietnam Veterans service? A service he described as, "A filthy obscene memory" when it was in his then political interest to do so?

Some wonder why are many combat veterans are still outraged by his past antiwar activities?

Salient point is, Kerry BROKE FAITH with those STILL in the field under arms and his actions were tantamount to providing aid and comfort to the enemy in terms of useful propaganda, which was used to encourage the enemy troops to "stay the course" and fight on, (even when they were horrible decimated during the TET offensive and were faltering. Reference: http://www.grunt.com/colonelbuitin.htm) The end result of his, and others, in the "peace Movement" of the era (sic) ! actions resulted, ironically, in producing MORE causalities, NOT LESS ... on BOTH sides.

Kerry's antic's we're to ingratiate himself with the movers and shakers of the "peace movement" at that time (Sic)! for future PERSONAL gain.

In summary, he built his political career (as did many politicos, entertainers, academicians, and journalists. Hey, "PEACE" was a big business back then!), on the bodies of a bunch of dead and maimed GIs. Marines, Airman, and Sailors. (And, Vietnamese, both military and civilian alike, North and South, for that matter.)

The man is a political prostitute.

As for being "right," ask all the Vietnamese, Cambodians, and Laotians, who were executed by the brutal communist regimes who followed the collapse of Saigon, Phnom Penh, and Vientiane.

The citizens of the aforementioned were not escaping by the millions because they were fleeing a "Workers Paradise."

The Cold War was fought on many fronts. S.E. Asia was merely one battle (Albeit the' hot battle within a Cold War) in the overall victory over communism, in our fifty-year war COLD WAR of containment, and, eventually democracy's victory over worldwide communist expansionism.

We won. They lost.

Kerry, Fonda, Clinton, et al., etc., betrayed, dodged, and profited.

Got it?

Can't have it both ways there ...Mr. "Ketchup Kerry."

So, which is it?

Are you proud, or, are you ashamed of being a Vietnam Veteran? And, are you proud or ashamed of your part in the overall Cold War ... which stopped communist expansion worldwide or not?

And, depending on your answer;

When were you lying to us?

Then, or now?

- END

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

NOTE: As a decorated Viet Nam Veteran (Bronze Star among other medals) who did his duty without bitterness, this story about John Kerry is appalling to me. You might find it worth a couple minutes to read - Richard

Special Insider Report From NewsMax.com: The REAL John Kerry By Chuck Noe for NewsMax.com With his win in Iowa, Sen. John Kerry could be on his way to the White House. But most Americans are unaware of the real Kerry. NewsMax has some of the inside story about one of America's most liberal Senators. Here are facts and quotations that reveal the character of the new Democrat leader:

Denouncing America with ‘Hanoi’ Jane: Although Wesley Clark and others have attacked former front-runner Howard Dean as a draft-dodging ski bum, Kerry is far more complex than the simple war hero he portrays himself as. He became a celebrated organizer for one of America's most extreme appeasement groups, Vietnam Veterans Against the War. He consorted with the likes of “Hanoi” Jane Fonda and Ramsey Clark, Lyndon Johnson’s radical former attorney general. He attended a seminar bankrolled by Fonda in Detroit in February 1971. Watching 125 self-proclaimed Vietnam veterans testify at a Howard Johnson’s about atrocities allegedly committed by U.S. forces, the man who would be president later said he found the accounts shocking and irrefutable. Operation Dewey Canyon III began on April 18, 1971, when nearly 1,000 Vietnam veterans and people claiming to be veterans gathered on Washington’s Mall for what they called “a limited incursion into the country of Congress.” The group staged mock firefights on the steps of the Capitol and Supreme Court and defied U.S. Park Police after the Department of Justice issued an injunction barring it from camping on the Mall.

Those evil American soldiers: Testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 23, 1971, Kerry claimed that U.S. soldiers had “raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam.”

‘We are not the best’: In his testimony, Kerry claimed there was no communist threat and said: “In 1970 at West Point Vice President Agnew said ‘some glamorize the criminal misfits of society while our best men die in Asian rice paddies to preserve the freedom which most of those misfits abuse,’ and this was used as a rallying point for our effort in Vietnam. But for us, as boys in Asia whom the country was supposed to support, his statement is a terrible distortion from which we can only draw a very deep sense of revulsion, and hence the anger of some of the men who are here in Washington today. It is a distortion because we in no way consider ourselves the best men of this country ….”

Throw as I say, not as I do: On that same day he led members of VVAW in a protest during which they threw their medals and ribbons over a fence in front of the U.S. Capitol. Kerry later admitted the medals he threw were not his. To this day they hang on the wall of his office.

The book he doesn’t want you to see: When Kerry ran for election to the U.S. House of Representative in 1972, “he found it necessary to suppress reproduction of the cover picture appearing on his own book, The New Soldier. His political opponent pointed out that it depicted several unkempt youths crudely handling an American flag to mock the famous photo of the U.S. Marines at Iwo Jima,” according to Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry. “Suddenly, copies of the book became unavailable and even disappeared from libraries. But the Lowell (Mass.) Sun said of the type of person shown on its cover: ‘These people spit on the flag, they burn the flag, they carry the flag upside down, [and] they all but wipe their noses with it in their efforts to show their contempt for everything it still stands for,’” the New American reported. Even today it is hard to find this infamous photo and book.

Friendly with the enemy: Kerry’s fondness for Vietnam’s communist dictatorship, one of the most oppressive in the world, continues. As chairman of the Select Senate Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, created in 1991 to investigate reports that U.S. prisoners of war and soldiers designated missing in action were still alive in Vietnam, Kerry badgered the panel into voting that no American servicemen remained in Vietnam. “[N]o one in the United States Senate pushed harder to bury the POW/MIA issue, the last obstacle preventing normalization of relations with Hanoi, than John Forbes Kerry,” noted U.S. Veteran Dispatch.

More extreme than Hillary and Kucinich: Among the White House wannabes, long-shot Rep. Dennis Kucinich has the reputation of holding the most left-wing congressional voting record. In fact, this “honor” goes to Kerry. According to American Conservative Union, Kerry has a lifetime rating of 6 percent, compared to 13 for the demolished Rep. Dick Gephardt, 14 for Sen. John Edwards, 15 for Kucinich and 19 for Sen. Joe Lieberman. Sens. Hillary Clinton and Tom Daschle score 13 percent. Only the likes of Sens. Teddy Kennedy and Barbara Boxer have more left-wing records than Kerry. In contrast, Sen. John Breaux, one of the upper chamber’s few remaining moderate Democrats, has a 46.

Drive as I say, not as I do: Like Al Gore and other self-described environmentalists, Kerry has a radical agenda that would devastate the U.S. economy in favor of the likes of communist China, yet he enjoys the gas-guzzling modern conveniences that greens denounce. However, although Kerry spouts the party line on anti-U.S. ecopolicy, he doesn’t like to practice what he preaches. Kerry was humiliated in April 2002 when photographed attending a rally against energy independence and then heading back to his SUV, the symbol of all that is evil to greens.

Bone to pick: Bush-hating conspiracy theorists find it alarming that the president, like his father, was a member of the secretive Skull and Bones society at Yale University. Another alum of this club: John Kerry.

Waffling on Iraq: Kerry has the tough job of wooing Howard Dean’s anti-war Democrats despite his support of the war in Iraq. His favorite tactic, claiming the president outfoxed him, doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. On “Meet the Press” in late August, Tim Russert played a tape of Kerry addressing the Senate in October 2002 with a hard-line speech declaring Iraq “capable of quickly producing weaponizing” of biological weapons that could be delivered against “the United States itself.” Kerry insisted: “That is exactly the point I’m making. We were given this information by our intelligence community.” However, as columnist Robert Novak noted, “as a senator, Kerry had access to the National Intelligence Estimate that was skeptical of Iraqi capability. Being tricky may no longer be as effective politically as it once was.” No doubt Dean, Lieberman, Clark and other rivals will now use these and other details to do to Kerry what the Democrats did to Dean.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From a recent colloquy ... People should know the complete background of these guys. The younger generation especially... Feel free to pass it along and save it for next Nov. Should JFK become the DP nominee. S/F- Rick

Salient point is, Kerry BROKE FAITH with those STILL in the field under arms and his actions were tantamount to providing aid and comfort to the enemy in terms of useful propaganda, which was used to encourage the enemy troops to "stay the course" and fight on, the end result of his and others in the "peace Movement" (sic) ! produced MORE causalities on BOTH sides.

Keery's antic's we're to ingratiate him with the movers and shakers of the "peace movement" at the time (Sic)! for future PERSONAL gain.

In Summary, he built his political career on the bodies of a bunch of dead and maimed G.I.'s. (And, Vietnamese, both north and south, for that matter.)

The man is a political whore.

As for being "right," ask all the Vietnamese, Cambodians, and Laotians, who were executed by the brutal communist regimes who followed the collapse of Saigon, Phnom Penh, and Vientiane.

The citizens of the aforementioned were not escaping by the millions because they were fleeing a "Workers Paradise."

The Cold War was fought on many fronts.

S.E. Asia was merely one battle in the overall victory over communism in our fifty-year war COLD WAR of containment, and eventually, democracy's victory over worldwide communist expansionism.

We won. They lost.

(Kerry, Fonda, Clinton, et al. , etc., betrayed and profited.)

Got it?

Ironman0311

quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Temp If Kerry was GOP and Bush was a Democrat the rhetoric surrounding both in this thread would be reversed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WRONG!

Just judging the ACTIONS of the individual. Let the politics fall where they may.

I have NO use for people who willing allow themselves to be used by the ENEMIES of our nation (Foreign or domestic) in any venue for propaganda.

Particularly, those who espouse their actions as motivated by there commitment to "peace" and "morality," then line their pockets with cash and stoke their resumes on the graves of those they helped "save."

R's or D's ... matters not. At that point they really are no longer even Americans and should become citizens in the enemy camp ... in this particular combat veteran's eyes.YMMV.

Bastards and Bitches all.

Ironman0311

Kerry and the VVAW excerpt:

"Realizing that running for public office in Eastern Massachusetts as a decorated Vietnam veteran was not at that time politically correct, Kerry moved hard to the left, seeking a leadership position in Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), a rabid pro-communist veterans organization.

Kerry attended a February 1971, VVAW conference bankrolled by Jane Fonda, the group's most prominent promoter. Over 125 self-proclaimed Vietnam veterans testified at a Detroit Howard Johnson's about wholesale rape, torture, and murder they claimed U.S. soldiers of committed in Vietnam. Kerry later said he found the accounts shocking and irrefutable.

As a national leader of VVAW, Kerry campaigned against the effort of the United States to contain the spread of Communism. He used the blood of servicemen still in the field for his own political advancement by claiming that their blood was being shed unnecessarily or in vain.

Under Kerry's leadership, VVAW members mocked the uniform of United States soldiers by wearing tattered fatigues marked with pro-communist graffiti. They dishonored America by marching in demonstrations under the flag of the Viet Cong enemy.

Kerry organized one of the most confrontational protests of the entire Vietnam War called Operation Dewey Canyon III. It began April 18, 1971, with nearly 1,000 Vietnam vets gathered on the Washington, D.C., Mall for what they called "a limited incursion into the country of Congress."

On April 23, 1971, Kerry led members of VVAW in a protest during which they threw their medals and ribbons over a fence in front of the U.S. Capitol.

"We came here to undertake one last mission, to search out and destroy the last vestige of this barbaric war," Kerry told the cheering mass.

At a jammed Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on April 23, 1971, Kerry took his case to Congress. With television cameras lining the walls and Kerry dressed in his green fatigues decorated with his Silver Star and Purple Heart ribbons, he gave testimony that defined him and made possible his political career. In a style, reminiscent of John Kennedy, Kerry asked, "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam – How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"

Much of Kerry's speech before Congress painted his fellow GIs as so brutal that, today, they could easily be mistaken for Saddam Hussein's Fedayeen killers.

He told Congress that U.S. soldiers had "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam."

By the following day, April 24, the publicity from the 22nd and 23rd helped draw at least 250,000 people to the Mall in a massive protest.

Kerry, wearing his combat jacket, addressed the rally from the Capitol steps. In less than a week, Kerry was transformed from little-known former swift boat skipper to a national icon for a movement that advocated against U.S. involvement in Vietnam and for the communist Vietnamese.Kerry was a supporter of the "People's Peace Treaty," a supposed "people's" declaration to end the war, reportedly drawn up in communist East Germany.

It included nine points, all of which were taken from Viet Cong peace proposals at the Paris peace talks as conditions for ending the war.

One of the provisions stated: "The Vietnamese pledge that as soon as the U.S. government publicly sets a date for total withdrawal [from Vietnam], they will enter discussion to secure the release of all American prisoners, including pilots captured while bombing North Vietnam."

In other words, Kerry and his VVAW advocated the communist line to withdraw all U.S. troops from Vietnam first and then negotiate with Hanoi over the release of prisoners. Had the nine points of the "People's Peace Treaty" favored by Kerry been accepted by American negotiators, the United States would have totally lost all leverage to get the communists to release any POWs captured during the war years.

Several weeks later, Kerry was featured in a on CBS's "60 Minutes." Correspondent Morley Safer, in the segment portrayed Kerry as an eloquent man who had a "Kennedyesque" future. "Do you want to be president of the United States?" Safer asked Kerry. "No," Kerry replied. "That's such a crazy question when there are so many things to be done and I don't know whether I could do them."

Vice President Spiro T. Agnew said that Kerry, "who drew rave notices in the media for his eloquent testimony before Congress," was using material ghosted for him by a former Kennedy speech writer (Adam Walinsky).

During Memorial Day weekend, he joined a throng of antiwar protesters on the green in Lexington, Mass., where he and hundreds of others were arrested.

Kerry run for election to the U.S. House in 1972 during which he found it necessary to suppress reproduction of the cover picture appearing on his own book, The New Soldier. His political opponent pointed out that it depicted several unkempt youths crudely handling an American flag to mock the famous photo of the U.S. Marines at Iwo Jima.

He graduated from Boston College Law School in 1976, then worked as an Assistant District Attorney in Middlesex County.

He was elected Lieutenant Governor in 1982

Elected to the U.S. Senate in 1984

More to come. "

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TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; johnkerry; kerry; kerryfraud; vvaw
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Hubby received this email today from an informed source who was a career Military officer. I know much of this has been reported here before, but the responses from other Vets are interesting, indeed.

It is very long, but worth the read.

1 posted on 01/24/2004 8:57:13 PM PST by annyokie
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To: annyokie
From News Info alerts pow/mia network

Broadcast Over Radio Hanoi To American Servicemen Involved In The Indochina War
by Jane Fonda
American Actress, Political Activist

August 22, 1972 - The following public domain information is a transcript from the US Congress House Committee on Internal Security, Travel to Hostile Areas, HR 16742, 19-25 September, 1972, page 671.

This is Jane Fonda. During my two week visit in the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, I've had the opportunity to visit a great many places and speak to a large number of people from all walks of life--workers, peasants, students, artists and dancers, historians, journalists, film actresses, soldiers, militia girls, members of the women's union, writers.

I visited the (Dam Xuac) agricultural co-op, where the silk worms are also raised and thread is made. I visited a textile factory, a kindergarten in Hanoi. The beautiful Temple of Literature was where I saw traditional dances and heard songs of resistance. I also saw unforgettable ballet about the guerrillas training bees in the south to attack enemy soldiers. The bees were danced by women, and they did their job well.

In the shadow of the Temple of Literature I saw Vietnamese actors and actresses perform the second act of Arthur Miller's play All My Sons, and this was very moving to me--the fact that artists here are translating and performing American plays while US imperialists are bombing their country.

I cherish the memory of the blushing militia girls on the roof of their factory, encouraging one of their sisters as she sang a song praising the blue sky of Vietnam--these women, who are so gentle and poetic, whose voices are so beautiful, but who, when American planes are bombing their city, become such good fighters.

I cherish the way a farmer evacuated from Hanoi, without hesitation, offered me, an American, their best individual bomb shelter while US bombs fell near by. The daughter and I, in fact, shared the shelter wrapped in each others arms, cheek against cheek. It was on the road back from Nam Dinh, where I had witnessed the systematic destruction of civilian targets-schools, hospitals, pagodas, the factories, houses, and the dike system.

As I left the United States two weeks ago, Nixon was again telling the American people that he was winding down the war, but in the rubble-strewn streets of Nam Dinh, his words echoed with sinister (words indistinct) of a true killer. And like the young Vietnamese woman I held in my arms clinging to me tightly--and I pressed my cheek against hers--I thought, this is a war against Vietnam perhaps, but the tragedy is America's.

One thing that I have learned beyond a shadow of a doubt since I've been in this country is that Nixon will never be able to break the spirit of these people; he'll never be able to turn Vietnam, north and south, into a neo-colony of the United States by bombing, by invading, by attacking in any way. One has only to go into the countryside and listen to the peasants describe the lives they led before the revolution to understand why every bomb that is dropped only strengthens their determination to resist.

I've spoken to many peasants who talked about the days when their parents had to sell themselves to landlords as virtually slaves, when there were very few schools and much illiteracy, inadequate medical care, when they were not masters of their own lives.

But now, despite the bombs, despite the crimes being created--being committed against them by Richard Nixon, these people own their own land, build their own schools--the children learning, literacy--illiteracy is being wiped out, there is no more prostitution as there was during the time when this was a French colony. In other words, the people have taken power into their own hands, and they are controlling their own lives.

And after 4,000 years of struggling against nature and foreign invaders--and the last 25 years, prior to the revolution, of struggling against French colonialism--I don't think that the people of Vietnam are about to compromise in any way, shape or form about the freedom and independence of their country, and I think Richard Nixon would do well to read Vietnamese history, particularly their poetry, and particularly the poetry written by Ho Chi Minh."

Nice people that John Kerry worked with! Are we going to have Brian Becker or Medea Benjamin running for President down the road?

2 posted on 01/24/2004 9:10:40 PM PST by armymarinemom (My Son Liberated the Honor Roll Students in Iraq)
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To: armymarinemom
Please pass this around. Thanks!
3 posted on 01/24/2004 9:23:09 PM PST by annyokie (Wesley Clark: Howard Dean with medals!)
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bump
4 posted on 01/24/2004 9:28:32 PM PST by clintonh8r ("Hugh" and "series" are SO last year....)
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To: armymarinemom
I read the whole thing, what a traitor scumbag.
5 posted on 01/24/2004 9:33:36 PM PST by bulldogs
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To: annyokie
I just checked abe.com. There are two copies of The New Soldier listed. One for $300 and one for $850. Gee, I guess "the little people" will never be able to read John Effing Kerry's story! (After he loses the election they'll be available for $5 again).
6 posted on 01/24/2004 9:34:47 PM PST by clintonh8r ("Hugh" and "series" are SO last year....)
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To: clintonh8r
It is currently available on eBay as per another poster the other night.
7 posted on 01/24/2004 9:39:22 PM PST by annyokie (Wesley Clark: Howard Dean with medals!)
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To: clintonh8r
The $850 seller now has the book on ebay with a minimum bid of $1000. No takers so far. Maybe Rush could buy it an read excerpts on the air!
8 posted on 01/24/2004 9:41:12 PM PST by clintonh8r ("Hugh" and "series" are SO last year....)
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To: clintonh8r
an=and
9 posted on 01/24/2004 9:42:16 PM PST by clintonh8r ("Hugh" and "series" are SO last year....)
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To: annyokie; MeekOneGOP; onyx; My2Cents; JohnHuang2; Dog Gone; Dog; isthisnickcool; OKSooner; VOA; ...
Thanks for posting this -- I had been finding some of this in research I was doing tonight about Kerry but you have even more.

Everyone needs armed with these facts and needs to send them to everyone they know.

10 posted on 01/24/2004 9:45:26 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04)
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To: PhiKapMom
I don't trust John Kerry and think he would be disasterous for the USA. He's a liberal, a liar and a phony. In fact, Kerry's voting record is more liberal then FatTeddyK`s. Hard to believe, but true. Brit Hume mentioned it the other night. Kerry is a privileged northeasterner, who couldn't carry any southern state.

The President deserves reelection and he will be getting my vote come November.

Btw, did you check out that LINK I gave you the other day on John Kerry's background?

11 posted on 01/24/2004 9:59:21 PM PST by Reagan Man (The choice is clear. Reelect BUSH-CHENEY in 2004)
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To: Reagan Man
Thanks -- I sure did and have it bookmarked. Have learned more about Kerry in the last week then I ever knew before.

For instance, I didn't realize he was more liberal then Ted Kennedy until you posted that fact. That is scarey.

Was thinking back today to the 1984 debates when the media said that Mondale was going to win as President Reagan couldn't beat Mondale in debates. I remember him leveling Mondale in the one debate and going on to win in a landslide. The media hasn't changed that much in all these years but at least we have the Internet now to get out the facts.

Just cannot believe that Kerry may be their nominee!

Thanks again -- anything you find -- just send me the link.

12 posted on 01/24/2004 10:06:06 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04)
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To: PhiKapMom
You're very welcome, Mom. I need to think to post to you great patriots who are the keepers of the ping! lists.

Thanks for forwarding it!

13 posted on 01/24/2004 10:08:08 PM PST by annyokie (Wesley Clark: Howard Dean with medals!)
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To: bulldogs
"I read the whole thing, what a traitor scumbag."

I found this picture on a traitor scumbag web site commemorating Dewey Canyon

Notice Ketchup boy playing pocket pool.


14 posted on 01/24/2004 10:11:22 PM PST by Wumpus Hunter (We must insure there is room for all animals - right next to the mashed potatoes!)
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To: annyokie
I decided to use the Bush-Cheney ping list on this very good thread so all could see what a lowlife (actually too nice of word) that Kerry is. Everyone needs to see what you husband received.

Just ping me anytime and I will use the list!
15 posted on 01/24/2004 10:18:25 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04)
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To: PhiKapMom
WOW!!

Plus, what's this about Kerry not really receiving some of his medals???

Oh .. and wouldn't this be considered a special interest??

Long after he changed sides in congressional hearings, Mr. Kerry lobbied for renewed trade relations with Hanoi. [Interestingly] at the same time, his cousin C. Stewart Forbes, chief executive for Colliers International, assisted in brokering a $905 million deal to develop a deep-sea port at Vung Tau, Vietnam - an odd coincidence.

16 posted on 01/24/2004 10:20:47 PM PST by Mo1 (Join the dollar a day crowd now!)
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To: PhiKapMom
Thanks! I'll make a mental note to do so in the future! Hubby gets many very interesting things that I post for all and then they fade since I forget that I need to ping you about them.

I'd tell you what we call John F*** Kerry around the house, but I'd get banned!
17 posted on 01/24/2004 10:22:39 PM PST by annyokie (Wesley Clark: Howard Dean with medals!)
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To: PhiKapMom
Just so happened today, I came across the 1989 PBS interview that PresReagan gave to Jim Lehner. Reagan said about his first debate with Mondale:

"I want to tell you, I just had more facts and figures poured at me for weeks before than anyone could possibly sort out and use, and I call it overtraining. When I got there, I realized that I was wracking my brain so much for facts and figures on whatever subject we were talking about, that I knew I didn't do well. And the second debate, I wasn't overtrained.

In 1984, Reagan won 49 states, 58% of the popular vote and more electoral votes then anyone in history, 525. Plus, the 489 electoral votes versus Jimmah Carter in 1980. I luv GOP landslides.

18 posted on 01/24/2004 10:28:04 PM PST by Reagan Man (The choice is clear. Reelect BUSH-CHENEY in 2004)
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To: annyokie
Great conpendium! Thanks for posting it.
19 posted on 01/24/2004 10:30:32 PM PST by Bobsat
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To: Bobsat
You're very welcome. I haven't seen anyone use "compendium" in a sentence since grad school, kudos to you!

20 posted on 01/24/2004 10:44:55 PM PST by annyokie (Wesley Clark: Howard Dean with medals!)
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To: annyokie
I don't use compendiums anymore since I got married to the same woman all the time.

I need a hobby............FRegards

21 posted on 01/24/2004 10:58:10 PM PST by gonzo (Soon...........very soon.........)
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To: gonzo
At least you didn't say condominiums. ; )
22 posted on 01/24/2004 11:01:02 PM PST by annyokie (Wesley Clark: Howard Dean with medals!)
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To: PhiKapMom
His testimony before the congress should be on film somewhere. Wouldn't it make a nice campaign ad?
23 posted on 01/24/2004 11:02:49 PM PST by McGavin999 (Evil thrives when good men do nothing!)
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To: annyokie
YO!!............FRegards
24 posted on 01/24/2004 11:17:52 PM PST by gonzo (I just had a birthday. I'm now old enough to realize that there's nothing left to learn the hard way)
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To: bulldogs
Its too bad those bombs didn't land where she was sitting
25 posted on 01/24/2004 11:42:47 PM PST by tj005
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To: McGavin999
His testimony before the congress should be on film somewhere. Wouldn't it make a nice campaign ad?

I like the way your mind works :0)

26 posted on 01/24/2004 11:44:51 PM PST by Mo1 (Join the dollar a day crowd now!)
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To: annyokie
In grad school, you probably proof read what you wrote to make sure you spelled words correctly!
27 posted on 01/24/2004 11:58:03 PM PST by Bobsat
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To: Bobsat
I corrected your spelling. No offense.
28 posted on 01/25/2004 12:52:32 AM PST by annyokie (Wesley Clark: Howard Dean with medals!)
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To: PhiKapMom
Thanks for the "ping"...important information here. I don't want a President who is determined to lead us back to the 60s.
29 posted on 01/25/2004 4:07:59 AM PST by Right_in_Virginia
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To: annyokie
Thanks for posting this!
30 posted on 01/25/2004 4:08:38 AM PST by Right_in_Virginia
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To: PhiKapMom; annyokie
Sen. Kerry, the "noble statesman" and "highly decorated Vietnam vet" of today, is a far cry from Kerry, the radical, hippie-like leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) in the early 1970s. After Kerry, as a Navy Lieutenant (junior grade) commanding a Swift boat in Vietnam, was awarded the Silver he found it advantageous to quit the Navy, change the color of his politics and become a leader of VVAW. He went to work organizing opposition in America against the efforts of his former buddies still ducking communist bullets back in Vietnam. Kerry gained national attention in April 1971, when he testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, then chaired by Sen. J. William Fulbright (D-AR), who led opposition in the Congress against U.S. participation in the war. During the course of his testimony, Kerry stated that the United States had a definite obligation to make extensive economic reparations to the people of Vietnam.

Kerry's testimony, it should be noted, occurred while some of his fellow Vietnam veterans were known by the world to be enduring terrible suffering as prisoners of war in North Vietnamese prisons. Kerry was a supporter of the "People's Peace Treaty," a supposed "people's" declaration to end the war, reportedly drawn up in communist East Germany. It included nine points, all of which were taken from Viet Cong peace proposals at the Paris peace talks as conditions for ending the war.

One of the provisions stated: "The Vietnamese pledge that as soon as the U.S. government publicly sets a date for total withdrawal [from Vietnam], they will enter discussion to secure the release of all American prisoners, including pilots captured while bombing North Vietnam." In other words, Kerry and his VVAW advocated the communist line to withdraw all U.S. troops from Vietnam first and then negotiate with Hanoi over the release of prisoners. Had the nine points of the "People's Peace Treaty" favored by Kerry been accepted by American negotiators, the United States would have totally lost all leverage to get the communists to release any POWs captured during the war years.

Kerry was fundamental in organizing antiwar activists to demonstrate in Washington, including the splattering of red paint, representing blood, on the Capitol steps. Several hundred of Kerry's VVAW demonstrators and supporters were allowed by Fulbright to jam into a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing in 1972 and to chant "Right on, brother!" as Sen. George McGovern (D-SD), then the only declared Democratic presidential candidate, accused U.S. troops of committing barbarisms in Vietnam

Source

31 posted on 01/25/2004 4:49:04 AM PST by prairiebreeze (God Bless and Protect the Allied Troops. And the families here at home---they are soldiers too.)
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To: annyokie
Today's (Sunday's) AJC mentions that Kerry was the co-founder of "Vietnam Veterans of America".

More media truth twisting.

32 posted on 01/25/2004 5:54:18 AM PST by Atlantian
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To: PhiKapMom
Thanks for the ping! I'm sending this to all the veterans I know (of course, they probably weren't voting for Kerry, anyway, LOL!)
33 posted on 01/25/2004 6:02:15 AM PST by alwaysconservative (Dems: Dim, Derivative, Deadly, Demented, and Drooling)
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To: PhiKapMom; xzins; yall
Mornin' ! Thanks for posting this.

Please Help !!! ...

On this thread, we are trying to find a pic with John 'F' Kerry and 'Hanoi' Jane Fonda.

If anyone has the pic (whether it's an authentic one or a modified pic), can you please post it to me ??

Thanks in advance !

_______________________________________________________


34 posted on 01/25/2004 6:26:41 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Check out this HILARIOUS story !! haha!: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1060580/posts)
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To: autoresponder; PhilDragoo; yall


35 posted on 01/25/2004 6:29:14 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Check out this HILARIOUS story !! haha!: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1060580/posts)
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To: PhiKapMom
Good stuff! I'll pass it around!
36 posted on 01/25/2004 8:33:41 AM PST by blackie
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To: annyokie
One of my favorite quips by Mark Twain goes something like "Any man who doesn't know more than one way to spell a word is uneducated."

However, in this case, it was just a typo that's been good for three bumps of a truly important thread. :)
37 posted on 01/25/2004 9:22:58 AM PST by Bobsat
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To: PhiKapMom; joanie-f; Mudboy Slim; FBD; sultan88; cherry_bomb88; ALOHA RONNIE
"The communists are conducting a pogrom against the Montagnards, forcing Christians to drink a mixture of goat's blood and alcohol and renounce Christianity."

Just when ya thought you'd heard it all, along comes something like this. ~geshhhh.

"So, which is it?
Are you proud, or, are you ashamed of being a Vietnam Veteran? And, are you proud or ashamed of your part in the overall Cold War ... which stopped communist expansion worldwide or not?
And, depending on your answer; When were you lying to us? Then, or now?"

Agitha Christie couldn't have summed it up any better.

As a vet myself, I think ret M/Sgt US Army, Ray Bows says all there is needing to be said about *Senator* John Kerry:

"This guy [Kerry] has used and manipulated Vietnam Veterans and there causes for years. He needs to be stopped. We do not need another president of Clinton's caliber in the White House, who has Vietnam Vet status to boot!"

The 'Rats best know now, Kerry's "COA".

..."Cooked On Arrival."

38 posted on 01/25/2004 10:35:24 AM PST by Landru (Tagline Schmagline...)
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To: annyokie; Landru; Reagan79
Thanks for posting and for the ping!
39 posted on 01/25/2004 11:18:08 AM PST by sultan88 ("I keep a close watch on this heart of mine, I keep my eyes wide open all the time...")
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To: clintonh8r
Maybe Rush could buy it an read excerpts on the air!

As I understand it, Kerry's flunkies have been buying up all copies, at any price, since his first run for Congress in 1972 where it was used against him (and he got beaten like a gong). However, there is not much to read. It's mostly a photo group.

I suspect the secret is the very low percentage of VVAW that were actually combat veterans. Because in the "Winter Soldier" investigation there were so many serious charges of atrocities, the Naval Investigative Service examined the issues. Kerry ordered his minions not to cooperate, and they didn't. The NIS tracked down some of the "atrocity" participants, and found that a number of them weren't veterans, and a number of the actual veterans never appeared in Detroit -- some guys using their names did, but it wasn't them. In other words Kerry and VVAW perpetrated a massive identity theft in order to assist the NVA. (There's a little on this in Stolen Valor).

You can read the complete WInter Soldier testimony as it was read into the Congressional Record by pro-NVA Senator Mark Hatfield (D[what else?]-OR) here. If you're a real veteran, some of the bogus claims will jump out at you.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

40 posted on 01/25/2004 11:38:32 AM PST by Criminal Number 18F
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To: Atlantian
Vietnam Veterans of America

Look, you have to expect Democratic papers like the AJC to lie for their guy. That's what they do. Always did, always will.

But there's a germ of truth in what they say. The VVA is an offshoot of the VVAW, and the "leaders" share the communist ideology and the tendency to be phonies (about 1 in 4 VVA members was never in the military, says one guy who obtained a copy of their membership database. Among the leaders, the percentage of wannabees is higher). An introduction to the whole sordid history is in Stolen Valor which I can't recommend too highly: if you're a Vietnam vet or have one in your family, or a vet of another war, or just an American who wants to support the real soldiers and "out" the phonies that give them a bad name, you really need this book. One of the authors, Jug Burkett, has been given the Army Distinguished Civilian Service award for his work in outing phonies and restoring the Army's (especially the Vietnam War Army's) unfairly tarnished reputation.

By the way, some have questioned the credentials of James Rassmann, the SF officer that Kerry fished out of the drink after he fell off Kerry's boat. There was a 1LT Rassmann in SF in Vietnam, so we assume he is legit as far as that goes.

Likewise, some have questioned the legitimacy of Kerry's medals. They were awarded legitimately and while you might quibble, if you don't have higher valour awards you have no business bitching about it -- and it just makes us look petty and churlish. I say, give him credit for what he did that's creditable -- and slam him for the stuff he's done that isn't!

Sooner or later, I reckon, the Kerry campaign will trot out phonies, again, as it has with the 'homeless veterans.' (That Boston Homeless Veterans shelter is a whole other story -- even the "veteran" that started it is a phony, and it basical exists to skim money off the public so that the staff can live well).

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

41 posted on 01/25/2004 11:56:23 AM PST by Criminal Number 18F
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To: Landru
"We do not need another president of Clinton's caliber in the White House..."

Hear hear...Kerry's a Massachusetts Kennedy-style Lib'ral with the Slickness of DerSchleekMeister!! Last thing this country needs is another POTUS like that...MUD

42 posted on 01/25/2004 2:34:26 PM PST by Mudboy Slim (RE-IMPEACH Osama bil Clinton!!)
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To: MeekOneGOP
LOL...John "Treebeard" Kerry...MUD
43 posted on 01/25/2004 2:35:54 PM PST by Mudboy Slim (RE-IMPEACH Osama bil Clinton!!)
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To: Mudboy Slim
Hehe ! :O)

44 posted on 01/25/2004 3:48:22 PM PST by MeekOneGOP (Check out this HILARIOUS story !! haha!: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1060580/posts)
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To: Landru
As bad as I thought Kerry was, I didn't have any idea until these articles started coming out and I did my own research. Had someone tell the thread last night that Middle America supported Kerry on the war and wouldn't like it we were going after Kerry and is antiwar movement.

Took me all of 10 seconds to start a post back to him. Couldn't believe anyone would think that John Kerry, vietnam war protestor, would be liked here in Middle America where support for the military has always remained high.

This man would be so bad as President that I cannot even fathom him getting elected. And those Freepers that want to teach the rest of a lesson can go jump off the nearest bridge with their alternative party plans. If Kerry is the candidate, the 3rd party or naysayers better stay out of our way with their continual trashing of the President which gives aid to the Democrats and John Kerry.

My two cents!
45 posted on 01/25/2004 4:32:56 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04)
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To: Landru; Diva Betsy Ross; annyokie
.

NEVER FORGET


And now this ...just for the CLARITY of it:



'Early KERRY: Disband CIA, Put U.S. Troops Under U.N. Control'

http://www.Newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/1/25/214708.shtml



QUOTE


GI's in Vietnam, KERRY said, had "personally raped [Vietnamese civilians], cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephone to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan."

KERRY later admitted he hadn't personally witnessed any of the atrocities he claimed his fellow soldiers had committed.


UNQUOTE


NEVER FORGET

46 posted on 01/25/2004 10:29:17 PM PST by ALOHA RONNIE (Vet-Battle of IA DRANG-1965 www.LZXRAY.com.)
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To: ALOHA RONNIE
"KERRY later admitted he hadn't personally witnessed any of the atrocities he claimed his fellow soldiers had committed."

HA!!
Kinda reminiscent of a certain other Liberal-Socialist politician who claimed to have witnessed church burnings as kid in his hometown, Littlerock, AR.; which, was later proved to have been an outright lie.

Or on the subject of "lies" & "outright liars," how about that very same pol's wife claiming she was named after a famous explorer when in fact, she was born 12 months before said explorer arose to prominence; hence, before anyone had ever heard the guy's name? :o)

Ahhhh yes.
Pesky things, *memories*.

"Birds of the feather," Sarge.

...they do indeed flock together.

47 posted on 01/26/2004 6:41:17 AM PST by Landru (Tagline Schmagline...)
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To: annyokie
bookmark for later reference.
48 posted on 01/26/2004 7:39:44 PM PST by CPT Clay (57 in '04)
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To: MeekOneGOP
They are shaking hands with their left hands - suspect at the very least that this photo is Left/Right reversed. (unless commies actually do shake hands with their left hands - if they do it's the first I've heard of it!)
49 posted on 01/27/2004 6:44:58 AM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
It is flipped as you suggest ! The real pic is a right-hand shake ...

50 posted on 01/27/2004 6:56:49 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Check out this HILARIOUS story !! haha!: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1060580/posts)
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