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Couple lose their home over $120 debt
The Sacramento Bee ^ | January 24, 2004 | Michael Kolber -- Bee Staff Writer

Posted on 01/25/2004 5:49:41 AM PST by DelaWhere

Edited on 04/12/2004 6:04:31 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Couple lose their home over $120 debt By Michael Kolber -- Bee Staff Writer Published 2:15 a.m. PST Saturday, January 24, 2004 Get weekday updates of Sacramento Bee headlines and breaking news. Sign up here.

COPPEROPOLIS -- A retired couple's dispute with their homeowners association has spiraled out of control in this Calaveras County community -- and now they have lost their home less than a year after failing to pay $120 in annual dues.


(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: abuse; association; constitution; homeowner; property; propertyrights; radcliff; rights
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I plan to FREEP this one - anyone else? To contact the office:Tuesday to Saturday 7:30 AM to 4 PM Primary Business Address; 920 Black Creek Drive Copperopolis CA 95228 Phone: 209-785-2688 Fax: 209-785-2698 Email: ccltoa@caltel.com
1 posted on 01/25/2004 5:49:41 AM PST by DelaWhere
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To: DelaWhere
So, a $120 charge turned into damn near $2,000, and the HOA isn't "really" an HOA, but a loose association of their neighbors?

Frankly, I'd rather live next door tot he Mengeles. They'd probably be more neighborly.

ANd I'm waiting to see what the HOA defenders have to say on this one.

You'd have to be NUTS to live in a development with an HOA.

2 posted on 01/25/2004 5:53:42 AM PST by Malacoda
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To: DelaWhere
and now they have lost their home less than a year after failing to pay $120 in annual dues.

I don't care what the reason, if anybody tried to take away my home, they'd be looking at the wrong end of my .45 ACP!

3 posted on 01/25/2004 5:54:13 AM PST by Pern ("It's good to know who hates you, and it's good to be hated by the right people." - Johnny Cash, RIP)
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To: DelaWhere
Some HOA's are benign.

But I won't take that chance.

4 posted on 01/25/2004 5:55:40 AM PST by Lazamataz (The Republicans have turned into Democrats, and the Democrats have turned into Marxists.)
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To: DelaWhere
This is unbelievable. I know some on this forum will say that the Radcliffs entered into a "voluntary contract" and hence deserve no special consideration.

Myself, I vote for common sense. I think the HOA should be sued for financial terrorism.

5 posted on 01/25/2004 5:56:11 AM PST by sauropod (Graduate, Boortz Institute for Insensitivity Training)
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: Pern
I don't care what the reason, if anybody tried to take away my home, they'd be looking at the wrong end of my .45 ACP!

The problem is, they'd be looking at the wrong end of a .45 ACP -- but you'd be looking at the wrong ends of about 30 M16's and about 10 Remington 700's.

7 posted on 01/25/2004 5:56:46 AM PST by Lazamataz (The Republicans have turned into Democrats, and the Democrats have turned into Marxists.)
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To: DelaWhere
reminds me of a true story about a rich man who was in charge of the owner's committee at an exclusive Park Ave place.

one of the owners was having a little bit of difficulty paying his maintenance -- I believe it was six figures. the committee man offered to give the owner time to get his affairs in order.

and these lowlifes wanna ruin someone's life for 120 measly dollars? that's just plain evil.

8 posted on 01/25/2004 5:56:47 AM PST by the invisib1e hand (do not remove this tag under penalty of law.)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: DelaWhere
The Radcliffs can receive about $60,000 from the sale of their house after paying off the homeowners association and a lien for past-due income taxes.

Sounds like forgetting to pay their association dues wasn't the ONLY problem this couple had.

10 posted on 01/25/2004 5:57:58 AM PST by Leroy S. Mort
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To: DelaWhere
There is also an allusion to a tax lien on the property.

More to the story here. Maybe the Radcliffs have Alzheimer's or something?

11 posted on 01/25/2004 5:58:50 AM PST by sauropod (Graduate, Boortz Institute for Insensitivity Training)
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To: DelaWhere
"One of the unfortunate things about people is when you get a little power, it goes to their heads," said Anita Radcliff, 61.

Welcome to the planet, Anita. If you ever vote for a proponent of big government again, you haven't learned your lesson.

12 posted on 01/25/2004 5:58:54 AM PST by ovrtaxt (You got an extra Koran? I'm like totally out of toilet paper.)
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To: Malacoda
A friend of mine who lives a couple of blocks to the south of me is a very active person in the Republican party. She has held fund raisers for the Bushes, Tom DeLay, Ron Paul, Kay Bailey Hutchinson, etc. in her home. She told me the other day that her HOA doesn't allow campaign signs in the front yard in her neighborhood! I told her I would not put up with that, also being active in the Rep. party. She said "We decided to do that!" I can't believe anyone would want to live on her street and be unable to have a campaign sign in the yard once every four years. We have deed restrictions that call for a garage, brick homes, home a certain size... but no HOA.
13 posted on 01/25/2004 5:58:54 AM PST by buffyt (You don't have a leg to stand on, Howard Dean, because you have both feet in your mouth!)
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To: the invisib1e hand
and these lowlifes wanna ruin someone's life for 120 measly dollars? that's just plain evil.

Could this foreclosure be reversed somehow? I sure would like to see this couple be able to simply pay the 120 and be done with it.

14 posted on 01/25/2004 5:59:00 AM PST by Lazamataz (The Republicans have turned into Democrats, and the Democrats have turned into Marxists.)
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To: buffyt
So what's the higher authority, the first amendment, or the bylaws?
15 posted on 01/25/2004 6:01:00 AM PST by ovrtaxt (You got an extra Koran? I'm like totally out of toilet paper.)
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To: Leroy S. Mort; Lazamataz
"The Radcliffs can receive about $60,000 from the sale of their house after paying off the homeowners association and a lien for past-due income taxes. All expect the home's current owner to demand much more than the $70,000 he paid for the house to sell it back to the Rad-cliffs."

"I doubt if that would be a viable option. He's going to look for profit," said Don Morger, the senior vice president of Coast Assessment Service."

"The new owner could not be reached for comment."

The new owner is a prick. He should be sued also. Bet he's a 'Rat.

16 posted on 01/25/2004 6:01:44 AM PST by sauropod (What happens at CPAC stays at CPAC)
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To: Lazamataz
but you'd be looking at the wrong ends of about 30 M16's and about 10 Remington 700's.

Oh, it's a given that the SWAT team Rambo wannabes would be on me like a pack of wolves, but they'd have to kill me first.

17 posted on 01/25/2004 6:02:27 AM PST by Pern ("It's good to know who hates you, and it's good to be hated by the right people." - Johnny Cash, RIP)
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To: ovrtaxt; AAABEST; countrydummy
Courts have held in this country that it is the bylaws.

Severe damage to freedom has occurred and most folks don't even know it.

18 posted on 01/25/2004 6:03:52 AM PST by sauropod (What happens at CPAC stays at CPAC)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: Pern
Oh, it's a given that the SWAT team Rambo wannabes would be on me like a pack of wolves, but they'd have to kill me first.

See, I don't intend to go out like that.

I'd rather be an irritant for the next 20 years. Lawsuits, injunctions, discovery, investigation, et. al. Day after day. Week after week. Month after month. Year after year.

Like rain wearing away a mountain.

20 posted on 01/25/2004 6:08:34 AM PST by Lazamataz (The Republicans have turned into Democrats, and the Democrats have turned into Marxists.)
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To: sauropod
It sounds like he was just engaging in real estate speculation-ever here those ads telling you how to get rich quickly in real estate? What he's doing is probably perfectly legal, though it isn't the nice thing to do.
21 posted on 01/25/2004 6:09:06 AM PST by Nathaniel Fischer (Herman Cain for Senate!)
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To: DelaWhere
There has to be more to this than what we are being told.

If not, this story just added to my lack of faith in the human race....

The guy that bought the house knew exactly what he was getting into...I wouldn't be suprised if he was someone's relative.

He's just as much a culprit as anyone else.
22 posted on 01/25/2004 6:10:07 AM PST by baltodog (So, can we assume that a job that an illegal alien won't do must be REALLY bad?....)
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To: ovrtaxt
So what's the higher authority, the first amendment, or the bylaws?

The first amendment is a right. It says nothing about consequences. Only the govt. is prevented from abridging that right, not private entities. If you work for a corporation, you have no freedom of speech at work, but you still have your first amendment right.

23 posted on 01/25/2004 6:10:07 AM PST by nwrep
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To: sauropod
The new owner is a prick. He should be sued also. Bet he's a 'Rat.

Sued. And sued. And sued. Then contact the press. And contact them. And contact them. Take out paid advertising. Erect websites. Start a cause.

What happens at CPAC stays at CPAC.

The first rule of Fight Club, is nobody talks about Fight Club.

24 posted on 01/25/2004 6:10:44 AM PST by Lazamataz (The Republicans have turned into Democrats, and the Democrats have turned into Marxists.)
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To: sauropod
Courts have held in this country that it is the bylaws. Severe damage to freedom has occurred and most folks don't even know it.

Or even care when they do find out about it.

25 posted on 01/25/2004 6:11:32 AM PST by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: buffyt
I can see why they would ban those. They can look ugly, and people tend to leave them up for months at a time (also, elections are at least once every two years). It would seem to be reasonable for them to just have limits on when the signs can be up, though (make the owners remove them immediately after the election).
26 posted on 01/25/2004 6:12:22 AM PST by Nathaniel Fischer (Herman Cain for Senate!)
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To: Lazamataz
Some states have some laws set up to protect the ignorant from such foreclosures. In this case, they ignored the process for a year and failed to make arrangements for the debt they agreed to secured by their property. As it appears they have other liens and debts ignored, they probably have some issue going on with either outright inablility to handle their affairs or outright unwillingness to be in the land of human interaction.

HOAs are always in the closing papers, you can buy elsewhere. We have a modest HOA which covers a community pool and some common area landscaping maintainace. But we also have those who didn't pay, used the pool for two years when the subdivision was new, sold their homes last year and walked away leaving the other responsible Owners stuck with their share.

We have the power to delay dues or allow a homeowner to put it against the property value, but we have now added a lien procedure to use when someone just ignores obligations that they have agreed to upfront.

27 posted on 01/25/2004 6:12:46 AM PST by KC Burke
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To: DelaWhere
HOAs can go pound sand. Bunch of unelected, unaccountable nobodies who have suddenly gained a little power, and mean to use it. I will *never* live somewhere where I have to deal with them. My ideal circumstances are a decent house out in the woods somewhere, with a lot of land around me so I don't have to look at or listen to anyone else.

I don't really do anything that would normally attract their ire, but paying them money to constantly send their petty little 'thou shalt not' edicts into my mailbox is more than I can stomach.

28 posted on 01/25/2004 6:13:35 AM PST by Riley
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To: Malacoda
The Mengeles might give you some lamp shades as an Xmax present.
29 posted on 01/25/2004 6:13:45 AM PST by RossA
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To: nwrep
You are absolutely correct, but so many in this forum fail to understand that.
30 posted on 01/25/2004 6:13:48 AM PST by Nathaniel Fischer (Herman Cain for Senate!)
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To: DelaWhere
I'm lost. Why didn't they pay the $120?
31 posted on 01/25/2004 6:14:28 AM PST by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: Pern
That's a Colt way to greet liberals and lawyers!
32 posted on 01/25/2004 6:14:57 AM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: sauropod
We are approaching a point where the courts and the constitution are diametrically opposed. When critical mass is reached, probably through some seminal event, bigger and more intrusive than Waco or Elian Gonzalez, the words of the Founding Fathers will carry more weight.

I know nobody wants to seriously discuss armed resistance right now, (despite some of the posts here), but I can see it coming. Regardless of who gets elected.
33 posted on 01/25/2004 6:15:07 AM PST by ovrtaxt (You got an extra Koran? I'm like totally out of toilet paper.)
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To: DelaWhere

his three sons are carpenters and painters

The sons couldnt find 120 bucks between themselves to bail out MOM and DAD.....I have issue with this more than anything....

34 posted on 01/25/2004 6:15:32 AM PST by alisasny (Thankyou to all who made 12/28 party so wonderful in NYC)
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To: DelaWhere
The unhappy couple wrote a letter to their Congresscritter, Barbara Boxer, about this.
35 posted on 01/25/2004 6:16:27 AM PST by Johnny_Cipher (Miserable failure = http://www.michaelmoore.com/ sounds good to me!)
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To: baltodog
The guy that bought the house knew exactly what he was getting into...I wouldn't be suprised if he was someone's relative.

He's just as much a culprit as anyone else.

All that guy would get from me would be a burnt-out shell with a toxic waste problem in the back yard if I was 64 and just lost my home over $120.

36 posted on 01/25/2004 6:17:08 AM PST by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: Pern
"but they'd have to kill me first"

With that attitude, one must conclude that you are dissatisfied with your life. OR, talk is cheap!

37 posted on 01/25/2004 6:20:35 AM PST by verity
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: nwrep; Nathaniel Fischer
But the courts uphold entities and theie rules over the individual's right to property. Am I off base here? Seems to me the right to life, liberty and property trumps EVERYTHING else.
39 posted on 01/25/2004 6:21:59 AM PST by ovrtaxt (You got an extra Koran? I'm like totally out of toilet paper.)
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To: verity
With that attitude, one must conclude that you are dissatisfied with your life. OR, talk is cheap!

Nah. It's just that some people have a line in the sand. This must be his.

40 posted on 01/25/2004 6:22:56 AM PST by Lazamataz (The Republicans have turned into Democrats, and the Democrats have turned into Marxists.)
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To: AppyPappy
Oh, I thought you read the article.....

"The tussle began last January when the Radcliffs didn't have enough cash to make the annual dues payment. Anita Radcliff said she became distracted over the following months by a series of ailments that struck her husband, now age 64. He had a knee replaced and then was bitten by a spider, which required months of recuperation."

I would also assume that the tax obligation fell into the same situation.
41 posted on 01/25/2004 6:23:20 AM PST by DelaWhere
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To: The Wizard
Obviously you have a degree in conflict resolution. lol
42 posted on 01/25/2004 6:23:34 AM PST by verity
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To: Orangedog
All that guy would get from me would be a burnt-out shell with a toxic waste problem in the back yard if I was 64 and just lost my home over $120.

NEVER overload an electric circuit. It could start a fire! ;^)

43 posted on 01/25/2004 6:23:47 AM PST by Lazamataz (The Republicans have turned into Democrats, and the Democrats have turned into Marxists.)
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To: alisasny
The sons couldnt find 120 bucks between themselves to bail out MOM and DAD.....I have issue with this more than anything....

Mom and Dad probably never told their kids they were having money problems. Most parents would rather saw off one of their own limbs than have to ask their kids for money.

44 posted on 01/25/2004 6:26:21 AM PST by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: DelaWhere
He had a knee replaced and then was bitten by a spider, which required months of recuperation.

Damnable Brown Recluse, I bet. I used to love spiders. Then when I came down south, I met many friends who had been bitten by Brown Recluses. The resultant wound looks like a bullet entry would.

Now I kill every spider I see.

45 posted on 01/25/2004 6:26:26 AM PST by Lazamataz (The Republicans have turned into Democrats, and the Democrats have turned into Marxists.)
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To: DelaWhere
I have a friend who's been on the boards of the HOAs of the condos she's lived in. Based on her experiences, some people are deadbeats and just won't pay. If the HOA didn't take action to collect their money, they'd never get it from those people, so they have to use the tools available to them, up to and including foreclosure. The people in this story got notice after notice and either threw them in a corner without reading them or consciously decided to ignore them. There's only so much you can do before the HOA has to either forget it (meaning they'll have increasing numbers of owners deciding not to pay, since it won't hurt them) or take it all the way.

If you don't want to be subject to HOA rules, don't live in a home where there is one. I don't like being told what to do on my own property, so I live in a house without an HOA to deal with. I can put up political yard signs, paint the house hot pink, cut the grass into a mohawk, or any other thing I please, and my neighbors might hate it but there's no HOA to make me stop.
46 posted on 01/25/2004 6:28:16 AM PST by John Jorsett
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To: Lazamataz
Perhaps! But also painting a bullseye on one's center-of-mass seems less than rational.
47 posted on 01/25/2004 6:28:32 AM PST by verity
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To: DelaWhere
HOAs are turning people away from such housing in droves.
48 posted on 01/25/2004 6:28:58 AM PST by pabianice
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To: verity
With that attitude, one must conclude that you are dissatisfied with your life.

Not at all. I simply wouldn't allow the fruits of my labors to be taken from me. Would you allow someone to take away your home over a measly $120?

49 posted on 01/25/2004 6:29:38 AM PST by Pern ("It's good to know who hates you, and it's good to be hated by the right people." - Johnny Cash, RIP)
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To: Lazamataz
Hehe! Sometimes people forget to turn off the upstairs tub faucet!
50 posted on 01/25/2004 6:30:26 AM PST by ovrtaxt (Sick of big government Republicans, but you have nowhere to go? Visit www.rlc.org)
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