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Kay Says Iraq Likely Had No Banned Arms, says intelligence community owe Bush apology.
Guardian ^ | 01/25/04 | KATHERINE PFLEGER

Posted on 01/25/2004 2:12:15 PM PST by Pikamax

Kay Says Iraq Likely Had No Banned Arms

Sunday January 25, 2004 5:01 PM

By KATHERINE PFLEGER

Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - The former top U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq said Sunday he believes Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq. David Kay said the challenge for the United States now is to figure out why intelligence indicated that the Iraqi president did have them.

``We led this search to find the truth, not to find the weapons. The fact that we found so far the weapons do not exist, we've got to deal with that difference and understand why,'' Kay said Sunday on the National Public Radio program ``Weekend Edition.''

Asked whether he feels President Bush owes the American people an apology for starting the war on the basis of apparently flawed intelligence, Kay said: ``I actually think the intelligence community owes the president rather than the president owing the American people.

``You have to remember that this view of Iraq was held during the Clinton administration and didn't change in the Bush administration. It is not a political `got you' issue. It is a serious issue of how you could come to the conclusion that is not matched by the future.''

``It's not a political issue. Its an issue of the capabilities of one's intelligence service to collect valid, truthful information.''

Since Kay's resignation Friday as the top U.S. weapons investigator in Iraq, Kay has said Iraq had no large-scale weapons production program during the 1990s, after it lost the 1991 Persian Gulf War, and no large numbers of mass destruction weapons were available for ``imminent action.''

Still, ``that is not the same thing as saying it was not a serious, imminent threat,'' he said Sunday. ``That is a political judgment,'' he said, ``not a technical judgment.''

Kay's declaration that weapons of mass destruction did not exist before the war puts him in direct contradiction with the official Bush administration position. On Saturday, President Bush's spokesman said the administration stood by its assertions that Iraq had banned weapons when U.S. and British forces invaded last March. The spokesman, Scott McClellan, said it was only a matter of time before inspectors find them.

Secretary of State Colin Powell, in contrast, held out the possibility Saturday that prewar Iraq may not have possessed such weapons. ``The answer to that question is, we don't know yet,'' Powell told reporters on a trip to Georgia. He said U.S. officials had believed Saddam had weapons prewar but had unanswered questions: ``What was it?'' he asked. ``One hundred tons, 500 tons or zero tons? Was it so many liters of anthrax, 10 times that amount or nothing?''

Kay said he believes the American public and politicians now have to grapple with the question of whether the Iraqi dictator posed an imminent threat. Given the reality on the ground, as opposed to estimates, some may reach different conclusions than they did before the war, he said.

``I must say I actually think Iraq - what we learned during the inspections - made Iraq a more dangerous place potentially than in fact we thought it was even before the war,'' Kay added.

Kay came home from Iraq in December and never returned to Baghdad to continue inspections as head of the Iraq Survey Group, sent by the CIA to track down Saddam's weapons of mass destruction.

CIA Director George Tenet replaced him Friday with Charles Duelfer, the No. 2 weapons inspector for the United Nations for about seven years.

Kay said he left the position because resources were being shifted from the search for Iraq's weapons stockpiles to counterterrorism and troop protection in Iraq.

Duelfer said Friday he has been assured he will have the appropriate resources.

Kay said he now is going to turn his attention to weapons proliferation issues and the recent lessons learned.

In addition to Iraq, he pointed out, the United States has been surprised this year by nuclear programs in Libya and Iran.

``The Iranian program was not found either by the international inspection agencies or by domestic intelligence services. It was Iranian defectors, Iranian opposition groups outside of Iran that brought it to the world's attention,'' Kay told NPR.

In Libya, he said, the surprise has been the connections to Pakistan and Malaysia, where he said it appears plants were producing parts.

``It is in many ways the biggest surprise of all, and it was missed,'' Kay said. ``We need to understand our capabilities and what needs to be done to make the nation better.''

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: apology; davidkay; intelligence; wmd

1 posted on 01/25/2004 2:12:16 PM PST by Pikamax
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To: Pikamax
Are there two different stories out there? I thought that I read somewhere else that Kay thinks the weapons are in Syria.
2 posted on 01/25/2004 2:16:45 PM PST by Thebaddog (Woof this!)
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To: Thebaddog
Yes, he did say thru interviews with iraqi officials material was sent to syria.
3 posted on 01/25/2004 2:18:08 PM PST by Pikamax
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To: Thebaddog
I think he said it was a small amount sent to Syria, not the vast stocks we have been searching for.
4 posted on 01/25/2004 2:25:47 PM PST by Sockdologer (Yeeeagh!)
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To: Pikamax
I still have no explanation for why Saddam did not prove he had gotten rid of the weapons if he had. That could have been documented. He could have made Bush look like a fool if he proved it right before the invasion started.
5 posted on 01/25/2004 2:43:38 PM PST by Honestfreedom
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: Pikamax
This is bad, bad news for Bush. Unless he is holding a trump card and this is all smoke/mirrors, Bush may well be toast come November. His support has been slowly dripping away - this story has been used against him since April 2003 and will only get worse. Bush either has to drop the bravado of knowing there are WMDs hidden, or show his cards.
7 posted on 01/25/2004 2:50:15 PM PST by over3Owithabrain (just kidding folks - I support W)
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To: Pikamax
Whoa. This is an interesting interpretation of Kay's remarks.
8 posted on 01/25/2004 2:51:04 PM PST by mewzilla
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To: Thebaddog
In the Daily Telegraph, it's posted.
9 posted on 01/25/2004 2:53:11 PM PST by GailA (Millington Rally for America after action http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/872519/posts)
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To: Sockdologer
I remember reports of scientists throwing themselves at the UN people trying to defect and being given back to Saddam's people. There were also stories about Dr. Germ and videos of tests on human subjects. There have to be facilities where this all went on. And Abu Nidal was killed before things got hostile. My bones are telling me that Saddam had the time he needed to make the stuff and the people go away to thwart this very search. And I think that the feds know more than what they are able to discuss. Kay was also all over the TV a year ago saying he was certain he would find them.

Dontcha think that Occam's Razor points to the goods being real and being stashed out of our reach?

10 posted on 01/25/2004 2:54:46 PM PST by Thebaddog (Woof this!)
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To: Allan
ping
11 posted on 01/25/2004 2:55:55 PM PST by keri
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To: sorrrow; Admin Moderator
That's three times you've posted that picture of these fools. Do you have an agenda? By the way, welcome to FR.
12 posted on 01/25/2004 2:59:34 PM PST by wolf24 ("Leave the gun. Take the cannollis.")
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: cyncooper
ping.
14 posted on 01/25/2004 3:03:35 PM PST by EllaMinnow
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To: sorrrow
The war was a desaster for diplomacy and they still don't realize.

A view taken by marxists and Euro-socialists who genuflect at the Franco-Germanic altar but I have yet to meet a conservative who gives a crap about what France and Germany think about America protecting it's own interests as we see fit.

15 posted on 01/25/2004 3:07:58 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: sorrrow
"We'd all be better serve if they were pushed out of the sphere of influence in Republican politics."

Yep, all of our enemies would definitely agree with you. They were a lot safer when more reasonable people like Cohen and Albright were around. Don't you agree?
16 posted on 01/25/2004 3:08:00 PM PST by wolf24 ("Leave the gun. Take the cannollis.")
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To: over3Owithabrain
IRAQ’S WEAPONS ROSTER – A SAMPLING

Biological Weapons

Iraq has done research on a multitude of lethal biological agents – anthrax, botulinum toxin, aflatoxin, ricin, as well as agents that cause gas gangrene, plague, typhus, tetanus, cholera, camelpox and hemorrhagic fever. UN inspectors reported that Iraq has failed to fully disclose the scope and nature of its biological weapons program. Multiple sources confirm the existence of mobile units producing biological weapons, which Iraq denies.

Anthrax – Iraq declared producing nearly 8,500 liters but denied its ability to produce dry agent. UN inspectors believe Iraq may have produced 26,000 liters and can produce dry agent.
Botulinum toxin – Iraq declared 19,000 liters. The UN believes it could have produced more than double that amount.
Chemical Weapons

VX Nerve Gas – The UN concluded that Iraq had not accounted for 1.5 tons of the VX agent. Just one drop is enough to kill a person.

Chemical and Biological Weapons Delivery Systems

UNMOVIC has reported that Iraq failed to provide evidence to account for 1,000 tons of mustard gas, 550 mustard gas filled munitions, and hundreds of biological weapons-capable aerial bombs. Iraq has denied any connection between its Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) Programs and chemical or biological agent dispersal, despite a previous admission and has failed to turn over all of its UAVs to the UN. From a truck in Iraq, its small UAVs can reach Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, or Israel. From a ship, one can reach New York, Paris, London, Berlin, or Beijing.

Nuclear Development

Iraq has repeatedly sought to illegally procure aluminium tubes controlled by the Nuclear Suppliers Group, that are consistent with its pre-Gulf War design to enrich uranium.

Ballistic Missiles

Iraq admitted that multiple test flights of the al-Samoud 2 and al-Fat’h Ballistic Missiles exceeded the 150 kilometer limit set by the UN, but falsely declared that these missile systems comply with UN requirements. UNMOVIC declared al-Samoud 2 prohibited and should be destroyed.

IRAQ WEAPON FACTS

Anthrax: Iraq declared 8,500 liters; the UN estimated 26,000.

Botulinum Toxin: Iraq declared 19,000 liters; the UN estimated 38,000.

VX Nerve Gas: 1.5 tons unaccounted for.

Biological/Chemical Delivery Systems: Over 30,000 munitions, shells, bombs unaccounted for.

Nuclear Development: Iraq has repeatedly sought enrichment equipment

Ballistic Missiles: Multiple flight tests of missiles exceeding 150 kilometer limit.

NNNN

17 posted on 01/25/2004 3:10:10 PM PST by Rome2000 (Ban "Jihad", not smoking)
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To: redlipstick
``I must say I actually think Iraq - what we learned during the inspections - made Iraq a more dangerous place potentially than in fact we thought it was even before the war,'' Kay added.

I do not understand why Kay is giving these interviews to the English media. He says things that can be used against Bush, then says they ought not be used against Bush, then adds eyebrow raisers like the above.

What did they learn during inspections that made Iraq potentially more dangerous than they thought before the war? Terrorist ties or what?

I don't think he's helping by putting this out in this fashion.

18 posted on 01/25/2004 3:17:37 PM PST by cyncooper
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To: Pikamax
I am beginning to believe that George Tenet is going to be very hot water soon. Either that, or this is all just a ruse to make people complacent or throw them off the trail.
19 posted on 01/25/2004 3:23:03 PM PST by FranklinsTower
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To: Pikamax
Do not exist or DID NOT EXIST???????? One hell of a difference.
20 posted on 01/25/2004 3:25:43 PM PST by cksharks (quote from)
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To: wolf24
Apparently, Kay hadn't checked with Saddam , WHO ADMITTED TO HAVING THE FOLLOWING WMD ON HAND IN 1995:

Iraq admitted in 1995 to possessing nearly 8,500 liters of anthrax, one production facility, 50 R-400 bombs, and five missiles with anthrax.

Yet the new report from UNMOVIC suggests that Iraq may have produced as much as 25,000 liters of anthrax (with 10,000 liters still in existence), two production facilities, and more than 5 warheads. There is no accurate information on Iraq's stockpiles of R-400 bombs.

Iraq's chemical weapons declarations in 1991 and 1992 did not admit having the capability to produce VX, but its revised declaration in 1995 showed it had VX capabilities. Iraq's production of VX since then has been the direct result of Iraqi deception during the 1991 and 1992 declarations, and Iraq still has not submitted proof that it has destroyed its VX capabilities.

Iraq initially claimed to have 1,200 R-400 bombs, but its revised estimate in 1995 added another 350 bombs. UNSCOM has never been able to verify this number. Iraq has admitted to filling 157 such bombs with biological weapons, but that number has also not been verified by inspections teams, nor has the bombs' destruction been verified.

21 posted on 01/25/2004 3:28:40 PM PST by Rome2000 (Ban "Jihad", not smoking)
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To: cyncooper
I do not understand why Kay is giving these interviews to the English media.

It will be interesting to see if the Goebbels style "Big Lie" will work in the age of the internet.

I think not.

The left may be looking for a new role model.

The Goebbels model just doesn't work anymore.

22 posted on 01/25/2004 3:34:35 PM PST by Rome2000 (Ban "Jihad", not smoking)
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Preemption doesn't require that the bad guys any weapons. It proactively precludes the possibility.
23 posted on 01/25/2004 3:36:35 PM PST by Consort
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To: Pikamax
isn't funding the people that attacked us on our own soil enough???
24 posted on 01/25/2004 3:39:41 PM PST by cajun-jack
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To: Pikamax
Between noon and 2PM, when Brian Williams was hosting, Fox quoted Colin Powell as saying this today:

"The decision to go into Iraq was based upon credible evidence."

25 posted on 01/25/2004 3:46:14 PM PST by Matchett-PI (Why do America's enemies desperately want DemocRATS back in power?)
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To: over3Owithabrain
This is bad, bad news for Bush. Unless he is holding a trump card and this is all smoke/mirrors, Bush may well be toast come November. His support has been slowly dripping away - this story has been used against him since April 2003 and will only get worse. Bush either has to drop the bravado of knowing there are WMDs hidden, or show his cards.

Bush HAS shown his cards from the beginning and everything he said is true.

Quotes from his speech;

"The United Nations concluded in 1999 that Saddam Hussein had biological weapons sufficient to produce over 25,000 liters of anthrax -- enough doses to kill several million people. He hasn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.

"The United Nations concluded that Saddam Hussein had materials sufficient to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin -- enough to subject millions of people to death by respiratory failure. He hadn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.

"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. In such quantities, these chemical agents could also kill untold thousands. He's not accounted for these materials. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them."

What President Bush said was true.

And if Bush is responsible to explain why stockpiles haven't been found, so do all these people.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...." Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

26 posted on 01/25/2004 4:03:53 PM PST by Jorge
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To: Thebaddog

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/25/wirq25.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/01/25/ixnewstop.html



Saddam's WMD hidden in Syria, says Iraq survey chief
By Con Coughlin
(Filed: 25/01/2004)

David Kay, the former head of the coalition's hunt for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, yesterday claimed that part of Saddam Hussein's secret weapons programme was hidden in Syria.






In an exclusive interview with The Telegraph, Dr Kay, who last week resigned as head of the Iraq Survey Group, said that he had uncovered evidence that unspecified materials had been moved to Syria shortly before last year's war to overthrow Saddam.

"We are not talking about a large stockpile of weapons," he said. "But we know from some of the interrogations of former Iraqi officials that a lot of material went to Syria before the war, including some components of Saddam's WMD programme. Precisely what went to Syria, and what has happened to it, is a major issue that needs to be resolved."

Dr Kay's comments will intensify pressure on President Bashar Assad to clarify the extent of his co-operation with Saddam's regime and details of Syria's WMD programme. Mr Assad has said that Syria was entitled to defend itself by acquiring its own biological and chemical weapons arsenal.

Syria was one of Iraq's main allies in the run-up to the war and hundreds of Iraqi officials - including members of Saddam's family - were given refuge in Damascus after the collapse of the Iraqi dictator's regime. Many of the foreign fighters responsible for conducting terrorist attacks against the coalition are believed to have entered Iraq through Syria.

A Syrian official last night said: "These allegations have been raised many times in the past by Israeli officials, which proves that they are false."


27 posted on 01/25/2004 4:19:08 PM PST by RaceBannon
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To: Thebaddog
You could be right. It's hard to tell now.
28 posted on 01/25/2004 6:31:32 PM PST by Sockdologer (Yeeeagh!)
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To: over3Owithabrain
"This is bad, bad news for Bush."

Maybe not....this Kay person has managed to walk that fine line in not blaming Bush or even Saddam. Instead, the blame is put on the shoulders of the intelligence community and if people begin to attack Bush, then the same attack should also be felt by Clinton.
29 posted on 01/25/2004 7:15:45 PM PST by Arpege92
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To: Rome2000
I guess the story is that he said he did, but was just making it all up as a deterrent.
30 posted on 01/25/2004 7:25:16 PM PST by GraniteStateConservative ("Howard Dean is incontrovertible proof that God is on Bush's side in the 2004 election"- Dick Morris)
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To: Jorge
Good post!
31 posted on 01/25/2004 7:59:42 PM PST by B4Ranch ( Dear Mr. President, Sir, Are you listening to the voters?)
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