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To: CMAC51
Is there a penalty (monetary or otherwise) that a currently illegal alien pays for guest worker status that an alien who is not illegal does not pay for guest worker status? I have heard the question answered yes, but not by an authority. I have not seen enough details of the plan to answer the question authoritatively myself.

The President calls it a "one-time fee." Illegals have to pay it to be legalized. Legitimate guest worker applicants don't have to pay a fee.

Undocumented workers now here will be required to pay a one-time fee to register for the temporary worker program. Those who seek to join the program from abroad and have complied with our immigration laws will not have to pay any fee.
Text of Bush immigration speech
President outlines plan to give illegals legal status
World Net Daily - January 7, 2004
The answer, whatever is correct determines if an Amnesty is involved.

According the Marion Webster dictionary, an amnesty is granting a pardon to a large group. A pardon is forgiving an offense without a penalty having been paid.

If a penalty is paid, no amnesty exists. The argument is then over how appropriate the size of the penalty is, which I would presume is negotiable during the formation of any bill

Yeah, I've seen the dictionary argument before. It doesn't fly.

Here's the most relevant passage from the most famous pardon in American History...

Now, therefore, I, Gerald R. Ford, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from July (January) 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.
President Ford's Pardon of Richard Nixon
September 8th, 1974

Why do you think that President Ford took such pains to grant a "full, free, and absolute pardon" to Richard Nixon?

The answer is because not all pardons are "full, free, and absolute."

Neither are all Amnesties.

President Bush's Amnesty for Illegal Aliens is an example of that.

There are different kinds of pardons, and different kinds of Amnesties. Pardons and Amnesties can be conditional or unconditional.

Need evidence?

The Google Search on conditional pardon yields over 23,000 results.

The Google Search on unconditional pardon yields over 22,000 results.

The Google Search on conditional amnesty yields over 21,000 results.

The Google Search on unconditional amnesty yields over 32,000 results.

This is not make believe, these are real and long-standing legal doctrines. Selectively parsing an unreasonably narrow definition of "pardon" or "Amnesty" does not erase these doctrines.


37 posted on 01/27/2004 11:12:13 AM PST by Sabertooth (Take the Reagan Amnesty Pop Quiz! - http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1065553/posts)
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To: Sabertooth
There are different kinds of pardons, and different kinds of Amnesties. Pardons and Amnesties can be conditional or unconditional. Need evidence? The Google Search on conditional pardon yields over 23,000 results. The Google Search on unconditional pardon yields over 22,000 results. The Google Search on conditional amnesty yields over 21,000 results. The Google Search on unconditional amnesty yields over 32,000 results. This is not make believe, these are real and long-standing legal doctrines. Selectively parsing an unreasonably narrow definition of "pardon" or "Amnesty" does not erase these doctrines.

Nice try, but no prize. Delving deeper into your "legal" vernacular. A condition is different from a penalty. Requiring illegal aliens to reside outside the country for 6 months prior to application would be a condition. Requiring them to pay a fee based solely on the their illegal status is a penalty.

Now, since we've gotten past amnesty. Which is the correct question? "Should there be a guest worker program? or What penalty is great enough to warrant consideration for guest worker?" Or is it that from your point of view that after breaking the law, no penalty is great enough to atone for the offense?

38 posted on 01/27/2004 11:54:01 AM PST by CMAC51
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