Our Border Brigades (Illegal Immigration: Why President Bush's Plan Is Necessary)

Wall Street Journal ^ | 27 January 2004 | Editorial Staff

[shrinkermd]

Conservatives of a certain ilk are piling all over President Bush's immigration reform, and one of their favorite complaints is that the U.S. has never really tried to "control its borders." One question: Then what is it we've been doing for nearly 20 years now?

[shrinkermd]

For your perusal.

[luckydevi]

for later

[junta]

They are liars since having passed completely thru the delusional state they now just recycle propaganda.

[W04Man]

I know I'm going to get bombed by the ultra right and Michelle Maulkin followers. But I have felt this way from the first announcement of the Bush Plan for Guest Worker permits. I thought it was a good way to roust out some of the lurking terrorists, if only by accident. We need to identify the "guests" who are already here first. Tightening the boarders would be the next step through other means.

[livius]

Without these immigrants, employers would be forced to AUTOMATE

Anybody who thinks employers are going to raise menial wages to enough to "attract" an American is being very unrealistic. Anybody noticed the growing number of self-checkout counters in supermarkets and places like Target, KMart, etc? Field harvesting can also be much more automated than it is. This is the wave of the future.

There's a limit to what producers and distributors can pay in overhead such as labor costs and still keep their prices low enough to attract American buyers (who are used to cheap goods).

[livius]

I think it's a good way to get a grip on an out of control situation. I have friends and family members in LE in the West, and the problem is that they have absolutely no way of identifying the people that they arrest or determining any fixed and reliable address for them. At the same time, because these people do not have real local addresses, they do not pay many of the local taxes and fees that would contribute to services, so the cities are really hurting. Bush's plan would offer an incentive to these people to register and give a genuine address, and then we would have a much smaller pool of people that we would have to actively pursue through other means.

Another thing I think is that Mexico has to enforce the border from its side, as well, and one of the problems is that it's pretty lax. This is because Mexico depends on the money sent back by its immigrants. Allow Mexico to keep a great part of this income stream, and I think the border will be much more enforceable because Mexico will cooperate. It's not just Mexicans who cross that border, but Chinese, Arabs, etc. - anybody who can pay the people smugglers. And until Mexico seriously cracks down on the smuggling rings, there won't be any change.

So I think Bush's program is realistic, although obviously some of the details still remain to be worked out.

[mgist]

Thank you for this piece of logic. I hope that conservatives will maintain logic and compassion when dealing with other human beings, foreigners or not. Some of the posts I've read here almost scare me. It is our Judeo-Christian duty to help others, and know that while doing so, we are helping ourselves and our country.

[Captain93728]

$3.8 billion to secure our borders is NOTHING compared to the billions spent on education, healthcare and social services for illegals. Last research I did estimated $7-$8 billion is spent on the above for Arizona, Texas, New Mexico and California alone.

How would our current budget crisis in CA be affected by having an additional $4B (our share of the above) to spend on education and healthcare for US citizens?

[Captain93728]

Helping others is absolutely fantastic ONLY if it doesn't take away from the legal citizens of our country.

What we, as a nation, need to do is address the root cause and not band aid the end result.

Illegals are running TO this land of "opportunity" FROM countries that can't take care of their own. This is where we should be looking to help others, but not at the cost of our own families.

How many families of US citizens do you know that can't get a job or healthcare? Shouldn't this be the people we help first through our Judeo-Christian spirit?

[mgist]

I think you're missing the point. We are spending billions and our borders are STILL NOT secured. Even if we put up the China wall across the entire Mexican border, they would come from Canada, sea, or air. A lot more has to be done, but nothing will be immediately effective.

I think the California crisis is caused by bunch of liberal white guys. Don't worry, an immigrant is going to fix it.

[Quilla]

I'm still undecided. As much as I'd like to believe in and back the President's plan, I read a post yesterday that hit a nerve with me. A freeper was "spitting nails" as their state and several others had passed free medical care for illegal aliens. This is the ultimate slap in the face to me with April 15 just around the corner.

I am an employer and am required by law to fill out an I-9 verifying (under penalities of perjury) my employees' employment eligibility. Somehow, businesses out there are getting around this, paying wages in cash, not withholding taxes or matching taxes, avoiding workman's comp, and breaking the law left and right. If the President's plan is implimented, I hope these cheaters are exposed, fined, and made to reimburse the fed. The workers, in registering to relieve the fear of being caught, will hopefully expose these "employers".

[Captain93728]

Me missing a point won't be the first time! :)

What I was trying to get across was that comparatively speaking, we're spending more supporting illegals than we are trying to stop the migration.

What I really don't understand is what's so difficult in obtaining citizenship? Is the problem in obtaining a green card because they're limited in number? I ask this because the rest of the requirements for citizenship shouldn't be a deterrent nor should they be forgiven. Not being a member of the Communist Party, passing a test on english, history and government, and believing in the principles of the Constitution is paramount.

[mgist]

To be honest with you I don't know any American families that can't get healthcare. I also don't know any immigrants living off welfare. I'm sure they exists, but most of them are really hard working, good people. I know a cleaning lady that uses a TIN # instead of a social security card. She doesn't have papers but pays taxes. She prays for Bush every day. She's as good as they come. I know plenty who are also very educated. Maybe not as nice though.

[realpatriot71]

Put up a friggin' wall! Avoid the entire discussion.

[mgist]

What I really don't understand is what's so difficult in obtaining citizenship? Is the problem in obtaining a green card because they're limited in number?

I'm not sure why it is so hard, but it really is. To get a green card legally it costs thousands of dollars. For example to go from an H1B visa to a greencard can cost 10K in legal fees. An investment visa is 100k. It really isn't easy. I'm not sure what early immigrants had to go through, but I'm sure it wasn't like it is now.

[Captain93728]

Unfortunately I do. My wife is a home healthcare RN for the county and we're usually giving a small part of our monthly income to someone in need.

I don't personally know of any illegal immigrants on welfare but do know of their children who, by birth, are entitled to welfare, social services, healthcare, and Earned Income Credits by the IRS. The "unknown" father of the children can be seen at the house on any given day and he recently told me (almost proudly) that he owes in excess of $80,000 in back child support. This young man is in his early twenties, is able bodied, and refuses to get a permanent job because child support and taxes would take most of his paycheck.

While I detest HIS principles, his wife and kids are left without phone or car while he can be seen with a six pack of beer at any given time.

It's certainly depressing but we continue to try and help where we can.

If this isn't part of the illegal immigration problem then I don't know what is...

[Captain93728]

"I'm not sure why it is so hard, but it really is. To get a green card legally it costs thousands of dollars. For example to go from an H1B visa to a greencard can cost 10K in legal fees. An investment visa is 100k. It really isn't easy. I'm not sure what early immigrants had to go through, but I'm sure it wasn't like it is now."

Shouldn't this be a good place to start?

[mgist]

"While I detest HIS principles, his wife and kids are left without phone or car while he can be seen with a six pack of beer at any given time."

Unfortunately the same can be said for too many able bodied legal citizens.

[mgist]

I get the sense that the quality of immigrants going into California is very different than here in South Florida. The other day I asked about an acre lot in South Miami being sold for 750k, the lady told me that a Venezuelan family just purchased it for sale price in cash. A lot of investment money comes through here from South America, as does an educated work force. We have caused a huge brain drain in many countries that don't offer a stable economy. I don't know any Mexicans but I'm sure there are some nice and educated ones.

[bc2]

"Others want to deploy the U.S. military, as if an already stretched Army doesn't have enough missions. Somehow draining the terror swamp in the Middle East seems a lot more vital to U.S. security than stopping busboys from crossing the Rio Grande."

I am a closed borders Libertarian. I think that peaceful people should probably be free to cross borders for commerce.

How can I say that and still be a "closed border Libertarian"? It's easy. A lot of people are not peaceful nor are they motivated by peaceful means.

Firstly, we need to dismantle public education, national healthcare, social security, and most public welfare. These systems need to go not just to aleviate the current immigration problem, but to ensure the longevity of our Republic instead of watching it devolve into a Socialist State. Secondly, and this will kind of touch on another thread I was just browsing discussing the new American empire, and relates to the above quote, why not close down our military bases in Germany, Japan, and the 100+ other countries, and then maybe we WOULD have the resources to prevent the foreign drugs, criminals, aliens, terrorists etc from coming over (NOTE: I think we should totally end both all Socialist programs as described above AND end the War on Drugs, as that will also no doubt make a huge dent in illegal immigration and smuggling etc).

Yet those stupid Libertarians! All they want is open borders and drugs paid for by someone else! Forget saving the Republic or her Constitution! JUST OPEN THE BORDERS AND GIVE ME THE WEEEED!

< /sarcasm >

[lonewacko_dot_com]

You can read responses to this article here:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/responses.html?article_id=110004610

Most of them point out the flaws in the WSJ's argument.

Here's my response, which the WSJ didn't print:

Your editorial reads like a left-wing screed, starting with the use of the word "nativists" in an attempt to smear your opponents and ending with the newspeak "undocumented immigrants."

While the chart is nice, it's also misleading. A better chart might include the money spent on interior enforcement, specifically workplace enforcement. How many employers have been fined or put in federal prison over the past few years? Perhaps you would care to tell your readers that instead of misleading them to believe that following our laws has failed. (See for instance http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20040111-9999_1n11workers.html says: "In San Diego County, only one owner, whose company hired workers for major hotels, has been prosecuted since 2000, and he was given probation. No business has been fined."

"Somehow draining the terror swamp in the Middle East seems a lot more vital to U.S. security than stopping busboys from crossing the Rio Grande."

A brief look at history will show you that any country that can't control its borders is in serious trouble.

"But there's no guarantee that even this--so insulting to American traditions--would work."

Illegal immigration is not an "American tradition." There are many other differences between current illegal immigration and that that occured in the 1800s and early 1900s. Most of those immigrants came through entry points, and were pre-selected by the shipping companies that brought them here. And, most people who came here did so for good and severed ties with the "old country."

"Or how about mass roundups and deportations?"

Why not get more hysterical, and suggest cattle cars and gulags?

"so if a policy keeps failing for nearly two decades maybe some new thinking is in order."

The policy of weak workplace enforcement has definitely failed. The policy of endless amnesties has also definitely failed. Remember how the 1986 Amnesty was supposed to be the last one? If the Bush/Fox Amnesty is passed, millions more illegal immigrants will come here in expectation of the next "last amnesty."

"immigrants today allow some industries to survive and expand"

Cheap serf labor does no one any good. If you care about American industry, encourage them to develop automation and improve productivity.

See, for instance "The Mirage of Mexican Guest Workers" from 80 Foreign Affairs No. 6: "...political leaders have often belatedly discovered that admitting temporary low-wage workers unnaturally sustains industries with low productivity and wages, such as garment manufacturing, labor-intensive agriculture, and domestic services. In consequence, the economy's overall productivity and growth suffer..."

The vast majority of Americans do not support the Bush/Fox Amnesty. Hopefully they'll make their voices heard in upcoming elections.

[mgist]

The vast majority of Americans do not support the Bush/Fox Amnesty. Hopefully they'll make their voices heard in upcoming elections.

Gee, I'm sure Kerry or Dean will just make everything hunky dory.

[AuntB]

"To be honest with you I don't know any American families that can't get healthcare"

If you are an American, who has never really worked or sustained himself, or an "immigrant" who has never paid into the system, there is no problem getting all the healthcare you want. But if you get sick, can't work you will have to hand your home over to state medicaid to get it. No one wants to believe this, but it is true, the state leins your home...not for the medical care you recieve, but for what it costs the state (over inflated of course) to cover you whether you get cared for or not.

[lonewacko_dot_com]

"Gee, I'm sure Kerry or Dean will just make everything hunky dory."

From an immigration standpoint, they probably wouldn't be much worse. And, their bills would probably stand much less chance of becoming law than the Bush/Fox Amnesty.

[AuntB]

"to a greencard can cost 10K in legal fees."

Because, mgist, we can't take a breath in this country without having to hire an attorney. As long as we keep voting them to office, it will only get worse. By the lawyers, for the lawyers...

[mgist]

Because, mgist, we can't take a breath in this country without having to hire an attorney. As long as we keep voting them to office, it will only get worse. By the lawyers, for the lawyers...

So maybe Edwards is a better choice for some. I simply can't see the rational behind some of these posters who want to see Bush out of office. There are no better choices no matter how anti-immigration you are. At least in thise next election cycle.

[AuntB]

It's not that they want Bush out of office. I'll vote for Bush and encourage anyone to do so, but I'll tell him when he's wrong. I would rather think that Bush is misguided on this one...haven't we all been at one time, than to think it's another dishonest political ploy.

[mgist]

Now that's logical.

[varon]

"His temporary guest worker proposal would provide a means for new immigrants to enter the country legally as well as a way for the government to keep track of their whereabouts in the interests of homeland security."

While the above statement holds true and has merit, it does in no way eliminate the illegals who will keep coming just as they do now.

What could possibly happen is a tremendous increase in legal guest workers in ADDITION to the constant flow of illegals. The illegals will sneak in under the shadow of the legal guest workers.........think about it.

[Baster]

You might be right, though I expect it depends as much upon what customers will accept or pay for. Price doesn't always trump convenience and service; what it does is create a tiered retail market, which is fine. I build and repair computers on the side, and my suppliers are tiered as well. Some are good for anything I ask of them, their people are there on the phone, and I pay a little more for pasts from them. Some other suppliers are equivalent to one-off hucksters. They can be the choice sometimes as well, it just depends.

Service from cheap illegal mexican labor doesn't deliver much of the satisfaction that either american-staffed or self-serve provide. That how it usually strikes me, anyway.

In any case, machines and self-service do not require you pay the lifetime socialized costs of Illegals' families, something they cannot even begin to cover. We don't get a good deal with them, we are merely allowing employers to cost-shift.

[livius]

I agree. People will pay more for "value added," in the sense of dealing with a knowledgeable person, having a transaction go smoothly, etc. I, for example, had a horrible experience with a budget airline that appeared to have offshored its customer service to the Virgin Islands (or someplace with a similar accent). It was awful, and I have gone back to flying my usual airline, even though it's a little more expensive.

I was referring to jobs that really are menial - harvesting, plucking chickens, etc. If the labor for these gets too expensive, then employers will probably mechanize rather than pay higher labor costs. Even things such as checkout counter personnel have a limit (witness the strike over the reluctance to pay more in California for already well-paid checkout clerks), and their jobs may be automated.

I agree that providing social services is a burden, and that's precisely why I like the idea of getting these people registered with a temporary status that lets us know their names and addresses - and tax them accordingly or charge them whatever fees we normally charge. Cities are going broke because of the services they provide to illegal immigrants, and for which they receive no or insufficient reimbursement. (Whether these services should be provided to anybody is a whole different matter, but that's not the subject of this thread.) I would like to see these people identified and paying into the system. I also think Mexico, which has a nice income stream from its immigrants, should contribute something to this cost of services, or should at least be more cooperative in things like repatriating criminals. But I can't see any of this happening until the first step is taken: identification.

This is something that we've been trying to do for a long time. But we've had little success, so I think it's time for a new approach, and that's what it seems Bush is trying to do.

[jimt]

I notice not a single word about the biggest part of the illegal alien iceberg - ballooning socialist services costs and the anchor babies which guarantee their increase.

Not a single argument made here is of the slightest importance until those two are solved, and Jorge's plan does exactly zip to solve them. Instead it's "bend over and smile" !

[mgist]

Thanks, I like to be able to understand where people are coming from, and respect your opinions. I would consider myself a conservative and Republican because of my spiritual values. I can really relate to President Bush and am impressed with him. I happen to think that more damage was done to California by a bunch of liberal white guys, than anyone else. A lot of things get blamed on immigrants but there are also a lot of dysfunctional families/people born and bred in the USA. My experience with immigrants in South Florida has been positive. Strong moral and family values are, for the most part, what I've seen. I suppose California is different.

[shiebalove]

Having had my wife killed by a drunken Mexican illegal alien who had been arrested 21 times and never deported and having him escape justice by fleeing back to Mexico, I take exception to your blog. Not only has he escaped justice we now have to support his illigimate children on welfare till they are 18. In my working class neighborhood there are only 3 familys left who speak English and pay Federal and State income tax. When will there be enough diversity for you.