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Is President Bush a Deserter? How the military defines the crime.
Slate ^ | Brendan I. Koerner

Posted on 01/28/2004 6:24:05 AM PST by Hillary's Lovely Legs

Wesley Clark has been criticized for refusing to distance himself from filmmaker Michael Moore's assertion that George W. Bush, who served with the Air National Guard, is a "deserter." What is the formal definition of desertion in the military, and does it jibe with the particulars of President Bush's case?

The crime of desertion is covered in Article 85 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. A deserter, in addition to not showing up for work, must also have the "intent to remain away therefrom permanently." In a court martial, prosecutors can demonstrate such intent by presenting evidence that the accused ditched his military uniforms, bought a bus ticket out of town, or remarked to a friend that he was never, ever heading back to base. Evidence to the contrary might include leaving behind personal property, a lengthy record of otherwise first-rate service, or testimony that the accused's absence was due to substance abuse.

During times of crisis, a soldier can be ruled a deserter even when she has not demonstrated any intent to leave permanently. A member of the armed forces who takes off "with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service" can also be found guilty of desertion, and the punishment for abandoning one's duty during combat can include execution. (Click here for Explainer's previous take on the military death penalty.) In rare instances, a desertion court martial is also possible when someone joins another branch of the military, or a foreign army, without first being "regularly separated"—that is, free and clear—from their previous post.

As a practical matter, the military usually divides "absent without leave" cases from desertions by considering the length of the accused's time away. According to a 2002 report by the U.S. Army Research Institute, a missing soldier is considered AWOL until the 31st day of his absence, at which time his status is changed to "Dropped From Rolls," the administrative term for desertion. Few soldiers classified as DFR ever face a court martial for desertion, however; the report states that 94 percent of DFRs are simply given less-than-honorable discharges.

Strictly speaking, Moore's charge is incorrect. "Deserter" is a precise legal term reserved for those who've been court martialed and found guilty. Bush, by contrast, was honorably discharged in 1973. The question then becomes whether Bush's status should have ever been changed to the equivalent of DFR during his term with the Air National Guard, which began after his graduation from Yale in 1968.

The president's allies and critics both seem to agree that Bush's service was beyond reproach until May of 1972, when he left Houston, where he was stationed, for Alabama, to work on a Republican senatorial campaign. The sticking point is whether Bush ever reported for duty with the 187th Tactical Recon Group, based in Montgomery, Ala., as he was supposed to. Bush claims that he did indeed show up for duty, though he did not fly. (A Boston Globe investigation from 2000 quotes a campaign spokesman who said Bush performed "odds and ends" in Montgomery.) Though Bush admits to missing a few required weekends while in Alabama, he says he made up that time when he returned to Texas the following year. He received his honorable discharge in October of 1973, eight months before his scheduled discharge, so he could attend Harvard Business School.

There are conflicting accounts as to whether Bush ever really served in Alabama. The commander of the 187th Tactical Recon Group told the Globe that he has no recollection of Bush's presence. Several Bush friends, however, have insisted that they distinctly remember the president attending drills in Montgomery. The issue has become a partisan lightning rod, with organizations on both right and left offering differing takes on the commander in chief's time with the Air National Guard.

(Excerpt) Read more at slate.msn.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bush43; deserter
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1 posted on 01/28/2004 6:24:05 AM PST by Hillary's Lovely Legs
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
Not this sh$t again!
2 posted on 01/28/2004 6:26:18 AM PST by mystery-ak (Almighty God, Embrace with Your invincible armour our loved ones in all branches of the service.)
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
This is only a story for the seething, hate-Bush crowd.

After 8 years of lies, adultry, Arkancide, and degredation of the office of the President by X42, the hate filled left is compelled to manufacture news of equal shock value against Bush.
3 posted on 01/28/2004 6:28:31 AM PST by Rebelbase ( <a href="http://www.michaelmoore.com" target="_blank">miserable failure put it in your tagline too!)
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
Is it just me or has anybody else noticed that those that seem to most concerned about the military record of our President are people that have absolutely NO MILITARY EXPERIENCE whatsoever?
4 posted on 01/28/2004 6:29:39 AM PST by Howie66 ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people.")
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To: Howie66
those that seem to most concerned about the military record of our President are people that have absolutely NO MILITARY EXPERIENCE whatsoever?

Or loathe the military, e.g., Michael Moore.

5 posted on 01/28/2004 6:33:44 AM PST by mountaineer
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
Is President Bush a Deserter? How the military defines the crime.

Next week:

Is John Kerry a War Criminal? How the Geneva Conventions define the crime.

6 posted on 01/28/2004 6:34:19 AM PST by cookcounty (JohnFoneyFaceKerry: "The only man in history to be on both sides of 3 wars.")
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
Not only is she an expert on the UCMJ, she seems very well informed on other subjects too.

Which Implants Look Fake?

7 posted on 01/28/2004 6:36:07 AM PST by Joe Driscoll (Hey Rocky, Watch me pull a rabbit out of my ass.)
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
The commander of the 187th Tactical Recon Group told the Globe that he has no recollection of Bush's presence.

Wow! A United States Air Force Group commander has no recollection of a lowly LT who served in his unit 30 years ago. Imagine that. Hell I served in Vietnam and have a hard time recalling names and faces of the men I served with. Don't suppose age has anything to do with it do you?

8 posted on 01/28/2004 6:38:50 AM PST by ladtx ( "Remember your regiment and follow your officers." Captain Charles May, 2d Dragoons, 9 May 1846)
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
There should be a paper trail to prove it one way or the other.
9 posted on 01/28/2004 6:46:21 AM PST by mtbopfuyn
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
Who are the Democrats trying to convince, anyway? They gave up the right to use somebody's service record as a campaign issue when the nominated Bill Clinton to run their corrupt little gang of thieves...

Cripes, if Bush was REALLY a deserter, Michael Moore would have nothing but good to say about him.

10 posted on 01/28/2004 6:47:28 AM PST by Kenton ("Life is tough, and it's really tough when you're stupid" - Damon Runyon)
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
Why are there still questions about when, where & how often W showed up? I thought the military kept good records. Finding out the facts, instead of 30 year old memories can't be that tough.
11 posted on 01/28/2004 6:48:41 AM PST by familyofman
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
I like how the author applies active duty regulations about duty time to the National Guard. The two are not the same.
12 posted on 01/28/2004 6:53:09 AM PST by Hillarys Gate Cult (Proud member of the right wing extremist Neanderthals.)
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
The media has repeatedly tried to make it seem as if Bush was AWOL. In fact, it's repeated by certain journalists. They keep it alive. I wish the Bushies would put an end to it, once and for all. The media and Demonrats try to get away with it. Funny how Bush was so out to save his arse that he wanted to fly one of those F-102's. Why didn't he take a desk job? George W.'s whole life is practically following in his father's footsteps-attending Yale, flying, the oil business, politics. Gives credibility to the fact the guy wanted to fly and was seeking the best way to do it. I'm sick of the anti-American, anti-military types on the other side who supported wholeheartedly a draft dodger, 'I loathe the military', lying S.O.B. like Clintoon and now have the nerve to think John Kerry, who has questionable actions returning from war, has an automatic claim to the White House now. The John Kerry's and Weasley Clarks are the type of military loonies the Demonrats get. Just shows they are the home of the radicals.
13 posted on 01/28/2004 6:54:17 AM PST by bushfamfan
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To: familyofman
"Why are there still questions about when, where & how often W showed up?"

That's a simple question to answer. There are still "questions" because some people will ignore the truth and the facts rather than allow their agenda to be derailed. It really is no more complicated than that.
14 posted on 01/28/2004 6:55:57 AM PST by Howie66 ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people.")
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To: familyofman
The left contends that there are no records and this looks bad for President Bush. When he got his discharge, Vietnam had just wound down and admin everywhere was swamped with paperwork. 1972 to 1973 is one of the worst time frames to look up old military records.
15 posted on 01/28/2004 6:58:42 AM PST by Hillarys Gate Cult (Proud member of the right wing extremist Neanderthals.)
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
Having been an air-guardsman fighter pilot during the eighties, I can tell you that the author of this article knows nothing about how the Guard actually works.

First of all, it is extraordinarily difficult to qualify in a fighter - not to mention dangerous. The Guard is not a dodge - it is a great way to serve, especially if you have other business interests. Secondly, as soon as they qualify in type, the Guardsman fighter pilot spends most of his time trying to figure out how to get paid as many mandays as possible for as few appearances as possible (i.e., we got paid 4 times for one weekend's work - it's just how the system works). The less BS surrounding your sorties, the better.

When changes in his personal life such as a move or change of job affect his ability to put in the required time to stay current (remember - this is typically a part time job - not in all cases, but often), the Guardsman will try to get on with another unit either in a flying position or a position that will enable him to receive retirement credits and hopefully get paid. Ultimately, you miss too many weekends to get credit for the year and you formally ask to separate.

So the president's on again, off again record is typical of many guardsmen - that's a fact.
16 posted on 01/28/2004 6:59:28 AM PST by americafirst
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
When I enlisted back in 67 it was pretty well established that getting into a Nat Guard unit
was a good way to avoid going to Vietnam where one might get seriously hurt and ruin your
civilian life plans

The National Football League got their players into guard units just for this reason...

I suspect that is the real reason Pres Bush was in a Guard Unit instead of going Regular Airforce, volunteering for active duty or requesting being sent to Vietnam to do what he was trained to...

In my family duty to God and country were impressed upon us...and with my high school buddies dying in Vietnam...I had to go...wild horses couldn't have dragged me or my true friends away..
and from the guys I served with there...I was nothing special...most of those dead recorded on that black wall....were volunteers for both the military and Vietnam
17 posted on 01/28/2004 6:59:42 AM PST by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
Again , Ketchup boy and his buddies "better put some ice on it" with this one. Ketchup Boy might regret it with this background during this era.
18 posted on 01/28/2004 7:00:39 AM PST by The South Texan (The Democrat Party and the leftist (ABCCBSNBCCNN NYLATIMES)media are a criminal enterprise!)
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To: joesnuffy
I tried to get into the Air Guard in 1968. Flunked the physical and then enlisted in the Army in 1969. Did nothing spectacular in Vietanm except managed to keep my name off of the wall. Too bad some of the politicians won't let this sleeping dog alone.
19 posted on 01/28/2004 7:08:09 AM PST by SLB ("We must lay before Him what is in us, not what ought to be in us." C. S. Lewis)
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To: americafirst
There are LINKS in this article to follow, so click on the link and take a gander at Bill Hobbs debunking of this crap.

Was Bush "AWOL"?

As the presidential campaign season heats up, you are sure to hear some Democrats charge that President Bush was, long ago, "AWOL" from his Texas Air National Guard duties - and imply also that he joined the guard to avoid Vietnam. Their allegations simply do not hold water.

Last May I wrote several posts about the "Bush was AWOL" charge. Here are the links. Arm yourself with knowledge. You won't convince the hate-Bush crowd, but there are those in the middle who might not know what to believe. Assuring them of the truth may help assure they vote for George W. Bush in November. And just what are the facts?

Bush voluntarily joined a military unit part of which was at that very moment involved in combat in Vietnam. He learned to fly fighter jets. He served honorably and was well-regarded by his fellow pilots. He put in more than his required time of service. And he was honorably discharged.

Those are the facts.

The hate-Bush crowd likes to point to some missing paperwork and an aging colonel's inability to remember one man out of thousands, and claim it proves Bush served dishonorably and was "absent without leave." But paperwork snafus are as common in the military as guns. And the absense of evidence is NOT evidence of absense. The "Bush was AWOL" claim is so thin that the New York Times, hardly a bastion of Bush support, debunked and dismissed it.

You can find the links to all of my blog posts on the "Bush AWOL" lie, here. The earliest, posted May 7, is at the bottom. Scroll up for the most recent posts (including this one).

UPDATE: This post was inspired by this debate at the History Channel's website, in which the Bush-haters are losing in part because their side claims Bush was not honorably discharged, and then post links to documents that say Bush was, in fact, "honorably discharged."

20 posted on 01/28/2004 7:08:18 AM PST by GailA (Millington Rally for America after action http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/872519/posts)
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To: ladtx
Wow! A United States Air Force Group commander has no recollection of a lowly LT who served in his unit 30 years ago.

Yeah, if the CO was say a bird colonel, he would have been approximately 45 to 50 yrs old in 1972. That would make him 75 - 80 yrs old today. Now my 85 yr. old grandmother is still as sharp as a tack, but many in that age range...

21 posted on 01/28/2004 7:09:06 AM PST by Tallguy (Does anybody really think that Saddam's captor really said "Pres. Bush sends his regards"?)
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To: Rebelbase
The Real Military Record of George W. Bush: Not Heroic, but Not AWOL, Either

Bush 'Desertion' Charge Debunked

22 posted on 01/28/2004 7:10:42 AM PST by Howlin
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To: mountaineer; Mo1
Mo1 has some "good stuff" on Kerry's "service."

Mo, this might be a good thread to add it to. :-)
23 posted on 01/28/2004 7:12:27 AM PST by Howlin
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs; maica
This is a great picture of President Bush!
24 posted on 01/28/2004 7:15:04 AM PST by Freee-dame
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To: joesnuffy
When I enlisted back in 67 it was pretty well established that getting into a Nat Guard unit was a good way to avoid going to Vietnam where one might get seriously hurt and ruin your civilian life plans

Flying fighter jets is more dangerous and likely to ruin your civilian life plans than going to Vietnam. Especially the F-102, which killed quite a few pilots who were not up to snuff.

25 posted on 01/28/2004 7:17:18 AM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
President Bush's minor screw ups as a kid of privilege are kinda irrelevant at this point in time
As are Kerry's brave acts one day on a Mekong tributary

The past is as they say..just that.. past...had there been a life long series of peccadillo's or high crimes as ,imo, there are in the Clintler's lives...in President Bush's life (which there arent)
This would imo be a prime consideratin if not a determinate as to his suitability to POTUS

President Bush is not any less suitable a candidate for re-election for having gone AWOL nearly 50 yrs ago then Kerry is for election because he saved someones life 50 yrs ago

What their respective beliefs are...what they intend on accomplishing if left in charge...thats what really matters...thats all that matters..

When left with the choice of the Bush of today vs the Kerry of today...ya gotta go with Bush

Unless a viable third party...with more traditional conservative values comes along

The two party cabal has pretty much got us all by the short and curlies..so to speak
imo
26 posted on 01/28/2004 7:19:11 AM PST by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: familyofman; mtbopfuyn; Hillary's Lovely Legs
G.W.Bush spent 2 full years on active duty, and he qualified to fly the F-102 supersonic jet fighter. After qualifying, the USAF decided to retire the jet, and GWBush had the option of returning to active duty for another 6 months to qualify on the newer jet, and extend his 6 year obligation by another 2 years - and he his choice was to drop his status as a qualified pilot.

After returning from his 1 year leave from Alabama, the records show that he drilled for 36 days - which is the same as 1 year of drills (2 days per month), and the 2 weeks annual training period (Monday to the following Fri - or 12 days.)

I have had command of 2 Navy reserve units ... and flexible scheduling is regularly considered. Flexibility can benefit the military ... and might help keep someone IN rather than dropping out.

GWBush - as an "ex-fighter pilot", after the F-102 was retired, did not have any critical skills that would have REQUIRED his regular presence ... chances are, his last year would have been make work (if he stayed in TX and had drilled regularly) ... but his make-up drills might have allowed him to work on some meaningful projects.

PAPERWORK ... paperwork from the late 60's and early 70's sucked! I started serving in 1975, and let me tell you that some of my records from the late 70's is poor quality, based on hand-written entries, etc. I would hate to "re-create" the stuff if the Navy lost it. (And I think some of the archives where GW Bush's records were stored were burned in a fire, resulting in the destruction of some of those records!)

But it is worth restating - after the F-102 was retired, GW Bush was probably considered of minimal use in the Guard/Reserve. He was probably shuffled around and given meaningless work (and how much work can be "turned over" from regular workers who work 9 - 5 Mon-Fri., to a drilling reservist who shows up 1 weekend a month. You really don't dump much work on someone like that. As a junior officer, he was probably given significant leeway in rescheduling drills . . . the idea being that if he was going to resign his commission, why invest significant time/effort in him (additional training, etc.) And the fact that he did his final year of drills in one extended period of time (36 days) is actually very positive, because he probably could be assigned a task that could be completed in a short time.

The Democrats are grasping at straws in a futile effort to smear the President. GW Bush's service might not have been spectacular, but it certainly was honorable. I also have served with junior officers who joined the reserves, but due to various job/family or other conflicts, they stopped drilling, AND ULTIMATELY - WE DIDN'T CARE. If that individual didn't want to continue - he might as well be let go. No one was listed as AWOL, and certainly no one was accused of desertion. They were dropped from the rolls - end of story. If the individual had "owed" a payback for special training, then it would be reasonable to expect the individual to stick around and complete the payback. But GW Bush trained in a F-102 that was then retired. He had no additional "payback", and in fact, if he wanted to continue flying, he would have had to commit to additional time in the service for re-training, and for a payback time after completing the training.

Mike

27 posted on 01/28/2004 7:21:20 AM PST by Vineyard
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To: joesnuffy
When I enlisted back in 67 it was pretty well established that getting into a Nat Guard unit was a good way to avoid going to Vietnam where one might get seriously hurt and ruin your civilian life plans.

Yes, but flying high-performance jets -- especially the F-102 -- was not exactly a "safe" way to put in your time. In your era, 1967, there were some F-102's on strip alert in Vietnam waiting for the stray MiG-21 to show up. Given that this aircraft type (Fighter-Interceptor) was in-use early in the American involvement, there was at least a "theoretical" possibility that GWB's F-102 Squadron (or parts of it) may have been called to active duty in 'Nam.

By 1972 the F-102 was being phased-out with ANG units. It doesn't surprise me that an ANG pilot who was "getting short" would not be allowed to transition to the next type (possibly the F-4C ?) before separating from his unit.

28 posted on 01/28/2004 7:23:04 AM PST by Tallguy (Does anybody really think that Saddam's captor really said "Pres. Bush sends his regards"?)
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
The president's allies and critics both seem to agree that Bush's service was beyond reproach until May of 1972, when he left Houston, where he was stationed, for Alabama, to work on a Republican senatorial campaign. The sticking point is whether Bush ever reported for duty with the 187th Tactical Recon Group, based in Montgomery, Ala., as he was supposed to. Bush claims that he did indeed show up for duty, though he did not fly. (A Boston Globe investigation from 2000 quotes a campaign spokesman who said Bush performed "odds and ends" in Montgomery.) Though Bush admits to missing a few required weekends while in Alabama, he says he made up that time when he returned to Texas the following year. He received his honorable discharge in October of 1973, eight months before his scheduled discharge, so he could attend Harvard Business School.

To put this in perspective:

Juanita Broaddrick was raped by Bill Clinton in 1978, five years later. :-)

29 posted on 01/28/2004 7:30:00 AM PST by an amused spectator (articulating AAS' thoughts on FR since 1997)
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To: Pukin Dog
"Flying fighter jets is more dangerous and likely to ruin your civilian life plans than going to Vietnam. Especially the F-102, which killed quite a few pilots who were not up to snuff."

My recollection is that fighter training can be dangerous, that there are a lot of fatalities. A few years ago at Whidbey Island Naval Air Station, I believe they had three or four fatal crashes in a year or two. So I agree that pilot training is not a risk-free endeavor by any stretch of the imagination.
30 posted on 01/28/2004 7:30:13 AM PST by Steve_Seattle ("Above all, shake your bum at Burton.")
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
This is from a web site that was set up to counter some of these lies. It says:

• "I have received a number of e-mails regarding the story that GWB was AWOL for a period of months during the Vietnam War. The story, which I believed to be mainly true, is in fact false. George W. Bush did not “go AWOL” during his time in the service. George magazine published an article entitled “The Real Military Record of George W. Bush: Not Heroic, but Not AWOL, Either”. I have included that article in the section discussing Bush’s military record.

I also received a very detailed e-mail from a Navy instructor in California, who asked to remain nameless:

All the cited documents so far are an assortment of standard form letters that are found in many reserve pilots records. The "smoking gun" AWOL proof cite is actually a standard report evaluation of ANG members that have transferred during an evaluation period. Each command is required to submit an evaluation record even if the member is no longer there to keep a constant an unbroken line of evaluation. The "smoking gun" terminology of "Not observed at this station" is the exact proper wording found in any members record of evaluation during a transfer which oddly the previous cited documents actually prove was the case. This is the standard evaluation extension language used in almost all military records. For the Navy the block is listed with "Not Observed" for the Army it lists "not present for evaluation”. The flight suspension letter is also a commonplace form letter suspending flying till an annual physical exam is completed.

This other "smoking gun" is such a common occurrence especially in the ANG that there are other people than George Bush listed on it using the same exact terminology.

Further investigating the documents finds that the AWOL claim is merely wishful thinking by some who simply misunderstand what the military documents say or don't know how common they really are in many service members records.

As you pointed out in your investigation in the final months of George Bush's ANG reserve commitment "when Bush decided to go to business school at Harvard in the fall of 1973, he requested and got an honorable discharge--eight months before his service was scheduled to end." The military does not and cannot by regulation, issue an Honorable Discharge to anyone that has been AWOL or otherwise seriously reprimanded as the resume tries to claim.

You can find reference citation on the Resume' claimed cites of AWOL at Bureau of Naval Personnel under the Uniform Regulations Manual and PERSNET as well the manpower regulations and report evaluation procedures. "

The address for the source is:

http://www.crossbearer.com/resume/The_Truth.pdf

31 posted on 01/28/2004 7:31:11 AM PST by mbynack (<a href="http://www.michaelmoore.com/" title="Miserable Failure">"Miserable Failure"</a>)
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To: ladtx
I talked to Col. Holmes back in '97. He had a sharp memory of Slick Willy. He, also, had some vivid memories of the Bataan Death March [he was a survivor].
32 posted on 01/28/2004 7:33:07 AM PST by Chapita
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
Psssst...pass it on. Michael Moor and ALL the reporters for Slate are Pedophiles. I have no proof or evidence of this, and I don't have a sound reason for saying it... but as long as it's ok to smear people with no proof...
33 posted on 01/28/2004 7:37:00 AM PST by Wheee The People (If this post doesn't make any sense, then it also doubles as a bump.)
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To: ladtx
Hell I served in Vietnam and have a hard time recalling names and faces of the men I served with.

Me too. Dug out the old pictures a while back and was amazed at how many faces I couldn't put names to any more. Remember every one of the personalities though, even if I can't put it to the right name and face any longer.

34 posted on 01/28/2004 7:39:57 AM PST by templar
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To: Chapita
I have vivid memories of some of the flights I made in Vietnam, but I have no recollection of a specific crewchief that I may or may not have even flown with who was in the same flight platoon.
35 posted on 01/28/2004 7:43:11 AM PST by ladtx ( "Remember your regiment and follow your officers." Captain Charles May, 2d Dragoons, 9 May 1846)
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To: Wheee The People
Well, that's what I heard! :-)
36 posted on 01/28/2004 7:43:55 AM PST by an amused spectator (articulating AAS' thoughts on FR since 1997)
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To: Vineyard
"GW Bush's service might not have been spectacular, but it certainly was honorable."

When even his supporters use this type of argument - it's no wonder his detractors try making it an issue. Politics can be very messy.
37 posted on 01/28/2004 7:45:03 AM PST by familyofman
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To: Wheee The People
You didn't read the article, did you?
38 posted on 01/28/2004 7:46:55 AM PST by John H K
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To: mtbopfuyn
There should be a paper trail to prove it one way or the other.

Not necessarily. I got an unofficial 30 day leave in December of 1967 before departing for Vietnam. There was no paperwork. There would be paperwork if Bush had been expected to report and did not. That would be remembered.

The fact that no one remembers indicates he had unwritten permission to be absent. It happens.

39 posted on 01/28/2004 7:56:05 AM PST by js1138
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Not that it matters, but the following is a copy of his honorable discharge.....


40 posted on 01/28/2004 7:58:36 AM PST by deport (BUSH - CHENEY 2004.........)
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To: Howlin
Heroism, and growing concern about war

On Friday, however, the National Archives provided the Globe with a Navy "instruction" document that formed the basis for Kerry's request. The instruction, titled 1300.39, says that a Naval officer who requires hospitalization on two separate occasions, or who receives three wounds "regardless of the nature of the wounds," can ask a superior officer to request a reassignment. The instruction makes clear the reassignment is not automatic. It says that the reassignment "will be determined after consideration of his physical classification for duty and on an individual basis." Because Kerry's wounds were not considered serious, his reassignment appears to have been made on an individual basis.

Moreover, the instruction makes clear that Kerry could have asked that any reassignment be waived.

The bottom line is that Kerry could have remained but he chose to seek an early transfer. He met with Horne, who agreed to forward the request, which Horne said probably ensured final approval. The Navy could not say how many other officers or sailors got a similar early release from combat, but it was unusual for anyone to have three Purple Hearts.

41 posted on 01/28/2004 8:44:20 AM PST by Mo1 (Join the dollar a day crowd now!)
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To: Mo1
"The bottom line is that Kerry could have remained but he chose to seek an early transfer."

My understanding is that one of the wounds caused him to miss two days duty and the other two were mere scratches. So he requested and received a return to the states after only 4 months in-country. I'd be willing to bet he wrote himself up for the Silver Star as did LBJ. I hope this crap comes out before November. I served 12 months in Vietnam which is 33% more than Gore and Kerry combined.

42 posted on 01/28/2004 11:09:18 AM PST by Jaxter ("Vivit Post Funera Virtus")
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To: Jaxter
more from that link

Kerry declined a request from the Globe to sign a waiver authorizing the release of military documents that are covered under the Privacy Act and that might shed more light on the extent of the treatment Kerry needed as a result of the wounds.

43 posted on 01/28/2004 11:13:22 AM PST by Mo1 (Join the dollar a day crowd now!)
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To: Howlin
BTW .. I have a question

Didn't Edwards say he was too young to serve in the war back then?
44 posted on 01/28/2004 11:16:41 AM PST by Mo1 (Join the dollar a day crowd now!)
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To: Mo1
Yes.
45 posted on 01/28/2004 11:25:48 AM PST by Howlin
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To: Howlin; Mo1
Hmm...he's the same age as my veteran husband. My husband wasn't in Viet Nam, per se, but was in US Navy planes making drops over Viet Nam, and definitely during the war.
46 posted on 01/28/2004 11:29:09 AM PST by EllaMinnow (If you want to send a message, call Western Union.)
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
Kerry gave comfort to the enemy in Nam while our boys were being killed, as per John McCain.Kerry and Hanoi Jane were protesting the War, and loving the Commies, Oh well George W is a hero compared to Kerry the Traitor.

OPs4 God BLess America!
47 posted on 01/28/2004 11:35:10 AM PST by OPS4
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To: Howlin
Correct me if I am wrong ... but It's my understanding that the draft ended in 1973

Edwards was 20 yr. old in 1973
48 posted on 01/28/2004 11:37:16 AM PST by Mo1 (Join the dollar a day crowd now!)
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To: redlipstick
Hmm...he's the same age as my veteran husband. My husband wasn't in Viet Nam, per se

Yes, he's the same age as my older brother .. he wasn't in Viet Nam either .. but he was in the Marines

49 posted on 01/28/2004 11:39:38 AM PST by Mo1 (Join the dollar a day crowd now!)
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To: Mo1
I think Mr. Edwards will have a little 'splainin' to do.
50 posted on 01/28/2004 11:42:06 AM PST by EllaMinnow (If you want to send a message, call Western Union.)
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