Turmoil at the Sierra Club?

Tech Central Station ^ | 01/30/2004 | Neil Hrab

[farmfriend]

Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.

[Cacique]

It may be useful to manipulate these guys to move the left to oppose illegal immigration. Whatever it takes to stop the barbarians at the gates.

[NormsRevenge]

Malthusians Bump

[WOSG]

Leftist organizations having a bit of trouble on the logical consistency front.

Mass immigration cant be pro-environment if "too many people" are the problem.

[farmfriend]

They are not concerned with the environment, only leftist/socialist ideology.

[Benjo]

Hrab: " And they definitely do not believe new technologies will create ways to sustain that projected growth -- hence their wish to keep the U.S. population from swelling further."

The question is not "how do we sustain all that projected growth?" I'm sure with fusion power or some other new technology the earth could support several times its current population. But who wants all those people? Undeveloped coastline is rapidly vanishing. They're building cities right up the Sierras. Who needs all those people? There are plenty of people on earth right now for any rational purpose. Is someone so lonely (or short of new customers) that nothing else will do than to stack the earth with people two rows high? Why would anyone want more people on the planet?

[farmfriend]

Undeveloped coastline is rapidly vanishing. They're building cities right up the Sierras.

Excuse me? Your evidence would be?

[vger]

"......political left don't like SUSPS's position on immigration. As the Nation magazine once put it, these activists don't want to see the Sierra Club "hijacked to fight immigrants rather than loggers and polluters."

Oh yeah like immigrants don't log and pollute as much as the rest of us!

[Benjo]

Excuse me? Your evidence would be?

Personal observation driving up to San Francisco on Route 1, trying to find a vacant space in a campground along the way, getting stuck a traffic jam in Yosemite, driving through new housing developments east of Bakersfield last summer as I went to visit a friend, encountering bumper to bumper traffic at the 9000 foot level in the Sierras east of Bishop (or for that matter trying to find a hotel room in Bishop itself, two years ago). Between 1950 and 2000, California's population grew by more than 24 million and is expected to hit 60 million by 2050. How many more examples do you need? What's your contention? That California's population is going down?

[farmfriend]

What's your contention? That California's population is going down?

No, that the efforts to stop what you are complaining about is actually causing the problem.

[Benjo]

No, that the efforts to stop what you are complaining about is actually causing the problem.

I'm complaining about over-population and over-population is the cause of most of our other problems and great exacerbates the rest.

[farmfriend]

I'm complaining about over-population and over-population is the cause of most of our other problems and great exacerbates the rest.

Don't agree. Open space conservation and environmentalism is the cause and exacerbates the rest.

[Benjo]

Open space conservation and environmentalism is the cause and exacerbates the rest.

We wouldn't have to worry about conserving open space if there weren't so many people trying to build houses on it. No one worried about conserving open space 150 years ago. There was too much land and not enough people. Now it's just the opposite. One doesn't have to be a tree hugger to be sick of traffic jams, strip malls, housing developments, and crowded cities everywhere.

[E.G.C.]

BTTT!!!!!!

[SubMareener]

I work with an anti-sprawl activist. We tell him that his bummper sticker should read: "Keep XXX County the Same as it was WHEN I MOVED IN!" ;-)

[Common Tator]

Who needs all those people? There are plenty of people on earth right now for any rational purpose.

Why don't you help the situation by eliminating yourself?

[johniegrad]

No, no, no, no. It's "I got mine now keep everybody else out of here".

[tubebender]

Good post on the battle heating up in "THE CLUB". I have heard bits and pieces of this and this post brings it out in public. The Sierra Club has a disproportionate amount of power than their 700K members should warrant...

[Tijeras_Slim]

California isn't the world. The problem isn't too many people, it's too many where you are.