The Truth About Tariffs (James McPherson on civil war tariffs)

North and South Magazine (excerpt transcribed by nolu chan) | January 2004 | James M. McPherson

[rustbucket]

Interesting article with various old statistics, if you hadn't seen it. (Duff Green)

[GOPcapitalist]

Thanks for that link - lots of interesting stuff. The export stats appear to be taken from the government records and as such are generally reliable. They show the south exporting about 75% of the entire nation's goods for 1860 - well above the unsourced 60% that James McPherson claims. The import stats are interesting, but still only show the point of entry for tariff collection. I'm constantly keeping an eye out for some inland and coastal shipping stats, if there were any, to show where the goods went.

[rustbucket]

I was surprised to see that manufactured goods exported from the North amounted to only about 26 million dollars while those from the South amounted to about 11 million dollars. On a per capita basis the South appears to have exported slightly more manufactured goods than the North, though there probably were different kinds of manufactured goods involved.

This doesn't mean that the North didn't make a lot more manufactured goods than the South, just that they didn't export a lot of them.

[rustbucket]

Error in my calculation. I went to bed, then realized I'd done the manufactured goods calculation incorrectly. The North had a higher amount of exported manufactured goods per capita than the South based on total population. Now I can go back to bed.

[rustbucket]

The export stats appear to be taken from the government records and as such are generally reliable. They show the south exporting about 75% of the entire nation's goods for 1860 - well above the unsourced 60% that James McPherson claims.

Perhaps McPherson gets his stats from Britain. Page 6 of my Duff Green link shows statistics from the London Economist for value of cargo imported to Britain. According to those figures, about 57% came from Southern ports. I suspect that the 57% figure does not reflect the origin of the cargo, but merely the last port from which the ships sailed. The American statistics that Duff Green cites give a more accurate picture of the origin of the cargo, one that is more consistent with the large shipments of cotton from the South.

[GOPcapitalist]

I suspect that the 57% figure does not reflect the origin of the cargo, but merely the last port from which the ships sailed.

That's a good guess. Of course we'll never know for certain since McPherson "comes up with these figures out of thin air" and "cites no source for this," so to speak ;-)

[PeaRidge]

One of DeBow's publications gives a complete breakdown of exports. Try a google search. If you don't find it, let me know.

In essence it states that for 1859, the value of all Southern grown exports, plus the value of Southern produced cotton manufactures exports, and the value of the cotton in Northern cotton manufactures exports constituted 74% of the value of the entire export of the United States.

That figure is significant since, according to the data I have, only about 12% specie was shipped back on ships to this country. That obviously means that Southern goods financed the US trade program, and was by far the prime underpinning factor in US Treasury receipts.

[PeaRidge]

The 60% thing is only agricultural exports. It goes up to 74% when the value of Southern cotton manufactures exports, and the value of cotton in Northern cotton manufactures exports is included in the total.

[rustbucket]

One of DeBow's publications gives a complete breakdown of exports. Try a google search. If you don't find it, let me know.

I found mention of Debow's when searching on the "cotton triangle" you mentioned on the other thread, but I hadn't found it. Thanks to your encouragement I kept looking and found the following in a Debow's article:

In Virginia, and in many southern States, the present laws act as bounty given to country merchants to make their purchases in the north; for in Virginia the foreign importer has to pay a license on his importation -- the jobber, if he is employed, another – and the retail merchant a third; whereas if the country merchants in this state purchases his goods from any of the northern cities, he will be exempt from all but one license tax – that to retail his goods. No license tax is required in the northern cities for the sale of imported merchandise, therefore it must be apparent to every person that the license tax in Virginia on foreign importations makes it the interest of her country merchants to make their purchases at the north instead of in the cities of Virginia, and that this unwise legislation must be changed if we ever expect to free ourselves from the thralldom of northern monopoly.

I am aware that this measure will meet with opposition, because it will, to some extent, lessen the revenue received from merchants’ licenses, but this paltry loss of revenue sinks into insignificance when we reflect that it will increase our direct trade with Europe -- build up southern commerce, and save, as has been estimated by merchants of high intelligence, to the State of Virginia the annual sum of $1,500,000, paid for coastwise transportation – charges made by northern merchants – interest on goods delayed in northern customhouses, and the expense of re-shipping from northern ports.

Source: Southern Education and Industrial Development, by R. G. Morris, presented at the Southern Convention in Richmond, Virginia, 1856. Found in Debow’s Review, Agricultural, commercial, industrial progress and resources. Volume 20, Issue 5. (From the University of Michigan's "Making of America" web site)

[Gianni]

Work sends me on travel and I miss out on all of the good stuff. From what it looks like, JM does a good job of countering a "guesstimate" based on cited figures by providing his own guess based only on his opinions.

As far as the 'evidence' provided in support, like:

woolen clothes were worn more in the North than the South, for obvious rea sons

I say:

He must mean those candy-asses in the Northeast, who I see on CNN whining every morning about 25° temps before I head out into the sub-zero to start the pickup.

[GOPcapitalist]

He must mean those candy-asses in the Northeast, who I see on CNN whining every morning about 25° temps before I head out into the sub-zero to start the pickup.

LOL! I do have to admit that, being from Texas that those 25 degree temperatures are horrid. But I have an excuse - our winters down south consist of a week or two in January where it may go into the 20's at night and not much more. Yesterday was the first day above 40 in the DC region in what seems like a month. But you are right - all those yankees who have lived their entire lives north of the Hudson should be used to 25 degree daytime temps and have no legitimate basis for complaining (which they sure do a lot of for people who "love New York" so much). It all goes to prove that nothing good has ever come out of yankeeland, weather included.

[Gianni]

Texas winters would be just my speed, were it not for a love of ice fishing. Perhaps if my brains didn't freeze solid the 15th of November each year I wouldn't feel the urge to freeze my butt on a slab of ice and try to hook fish through a 6" hole.

It all goes to prove that nothing good has ever come out of yankeeland, weather included.

Careful there, the 8-10" of snow we're getting this afternoon and evening are courtesy of some warm air sent up from your neck of the woods (don't worry though, come springtime that warm air is greatly appreciated).

[rustbucket]

In essence it states that for 1859, the value of all Southern grown exports, plus the value of Southern produced cotton manufactures exports, and the value of the cotton in Northern cotton manufactures exports constituted 74% of the value of the entire export of the United States.

I found a non-Debow analysis of 1859 that put the figure at 71%, so it agrees in general. The figure came from: Southern Wealth and Northern Profits by Thomas Prentice Kettell. Published in 1860.

This source also broke down the distribution of imports to regions by consumption. For 1859, it calculates Southern consumption of imports as $106,000,000, Western consumption as $63,000,000, and Northern consumption of imports as $149,000,000. Kettell bases the split among regions on Treasury figures from 1856.

Kettell also estimates that the North sent $240,000,000 in domestic goods (protected by tariff no doubt) to the South in 1859, and that the South paid to the North some $63,000,000 in interest and brokerage.

Kettell notes that the summer crop in Massachusetts was granite and the winter crop was ice. He argues that the North could not support themselves based on their natural resources. The North contracted an importing debt each year that it paid off in part by profits made from transporting materials to the South and West. It also made profits on manufactured goods protected by tariff that it sold to the South.

[GOPcapitalist]

Careful there, the 8-10" of snow we're getting this afternoon and evening are courtesy of some warm air sent up from your neck of the woods

True, but it only freezes because of the cold air (and everything else) that's already there, and it came from yankeeland ;-)

[rustbucket]

I see you earlier had posted on the other thread much the same information I did in post 133. My hat is doffed to you.

[hirn_man]

"Texas winters would be just my speed, were it not for a love of ice fishing"

I tried ice fishing once, but I had too much trouble with my boat at the ramp and went home.

Are they biting up there? I caught a channel cat on New Years day(while bass fishing), but nothing the last couple of times I went out. I do a lot more fishing than catching.

[Gianni]

Whether or not the fish are biting is a day-to-day activity here in Iowa... We don't have the good fishing our neighbors to the North enjoy. In spite of having a foot or better of ice almost everywhere, a guy I've fished with a couple of times went through the ice yesterday. Primarily here we have resevoirs and river backwaters, with lots of springs and current areas, so ice conditions are pretty unpredictable.

I heard up on the Mississippi River the saugers were committing suicide, but I naturally can't get out of family and work obligations long enough to make the two hour trip.

A channel cat on New Year's day??? Man, you must be quite a ways South compared to me. Our forktails are all laying in the bottom of the deepest hole they can find waiting until spring.

[hirn_man]

I live in North Texas in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. Its a power plant lake and I caught it right up next to the hot water discharge outlet.

The fish really like that discharge area. Unfortunately the winter has been prety mild so the power plant hasn't been running full capacity very much. Of course if it wasn't mild, I probably wouldn't be going out.

When we get 1" of snow forecast here the grocery stores look like people are preparing for a nuclear attack. The stuff flies off the shelves.

[Gianni]

When we get 1" of snow forecast here the grocery stores look like people are preparing for a nuclear attack.

I know exactly what you mean. Superbowl Sunday the forecast was for 6-10" of snow overnight. Combine the two grocery crises into one, and the stores were jam-packed with everything but food!