THE BALKANS: Al Qaeda Looking for Blond Recruits

I was in NE Bosnia out of Tuzla for several years well after 1995. I traveled extensively in MND(N) sector, and visited many other places in Bosnia over the course of my stay.

ever met Clyde Snow or Mimi Doretti ?

Mr. Jones is providing more details, the three of you are most likely to be able to confirm........

Ronly Bonly Jones talks about being in Bosnia during 9-11, which was September 2001. He's also said, about last summer, that his return was fairly recent. Before this screen name he was homeagain balkansvet, and, if I recall correctly, had a November 2002 sign up date. So I'm guessing he arrived in 2001 - spring, summer, earlier? - and left fall 2002. So, the war had been over for about 5 ½ years before he got there. And of course he and the mission are geared to the US pro-Muslim policy. They walk around with Muslims, listen to the Muslim-version of events, live in Tuzla - which was ethnically cleansed of its Serbian population, and has had all its Serbian churches destroyed or severely damaged - he never brings up that scenery, now does he?

I'll bet he saw no shortage of military-aged Muslim men in Tuzla. Tuzla is where thousands soldiers arrived from Srebrenica, according to the Bosnians themselves in statements before their parliament. The Bosnian Government also refused to give the ICRC (red cross) the names of the soldiers who arrived in Muslim-controlled territory after Srebrenica fell. How can people get at the truth without getting this information from the Bosnian government about who, and exactly how many, did arrive from Srebrenica alive?

No.

How can people get at the truth without getting this information from the Bosnian government about who, and exactly how many, did arrive from Srebrenica alive?>>>

Is THAT your complaint? That V Corps(e) didn't murder everyone? That they were so inefficient that some escaped their clutches? Christ.

Bosnia is a hotbed for the Islamic extremist even during the Bosnian Conflict. All sides did horrible things to each other and ORIC was no different. One thing is for sure joan, as time goes on these infidel Muslim extremists will make it obvious to the Western world what evil they really i.e. their desire to dominate the world with their barbaric religious ways, a realization the Serbs have known about for a very long time and in knowing, have defended the doorstep of Europe time and time again. The west is just catching up to the realization that this war is one of religious ideology and will be on going for a long time. These extremists have openly stated this and refer to us Westerners as crusaders. As I have said in the past lets not disappoint them. Nothing wrong with respecting someone's religious beliefs as long as they do not shove it down your throat. Fusion is right this is the third world War. Just ask the Russians.....

The dude is a want to be famous in his own mind kind of guy and from what I can tell he is a fraud. A mother's boy looking for attention.

I dont know. I was never in Tuzla. And I never read Mr. Jones' posts. He's too far out there for me.

Is he for real in the sense that was he in Tuzla? I don't know. Maybe so. If he was there in 2001 that was pretty long after the fall of Srebrenica, so what is the question? He could hardly have been an eyewitness. As I said, I don't follow his posts, so... what is he claiming other than that he was in Tuzla and that Serbs have horns growing out of their heads?

I was in Sector North (Krajina) when Srebrenica fell. I don't claim to know what really happened there. I wasn't there myself. Even had I been there myself, I still might not have known exactly what was going on, any more than those poor DutchBat guys knew for sure.

What is clear to me: The people of Srebrenica were first and foremost sold out by their own leaders (nothing new there -- also nothing new in the 90s Balkans wars -- just as the Krajina Serbs were first and foremost sold out by their leaders, Croats in Vukovar and a few other places ditto... the Bosnian Muslim leadership seemed to do it most often to greatest effect, however). And, yes, sorry, but something monstrous did occur in Srebrenica and I certainly don't think the VRS had clean hands there. Far from it. There was a ghastly massacre of some sort. Or rather, a series of massacres.

Whether the number was 8,000 or 2,000 killed -- does it really matter? Either is unacceptable. To put it mildly. I'm not going to argue numbers.

Looked at from Mladic's point of view, what was he supposed to do with all those military-aged guys? Take them prisoner and keep them imprisoned somehow somewhere? What to feed them? (He didn't exactly have any Guantanamo handy.) Should he just let them go so they could fight against him sometime next Tuesday? So perhaps the unthinkable was thought of, and done. It wasn't the first time nor the last time it was done in former Y, and it certainly wasn't only Serbs who ever thought of it and did it, either. But neither were they above it. As Wraith said, all sides committed atrocities. That includes the Serb side.

The above paragraph is not in any way meant to excuse the killing of unarmed men. I shouldn't have to say that. But people get strange ideas on here sometimes. Also the fact that their own leaders sold them out doesn't excuse what the Serbs did. Just as the Krajina Serbs being sold out by their leaders doesn't excuse what the Croats did. And so on until we've gone all around the ring of Croats, Muslims and Serbs.

Here's a link to the story of the fall of Srebrenica as written by a Bosnian Muslim soldier who was in Tuzla at the time. A few details are not accurate, for instance about what happened in Croatia, as he seems to have got Op Flash (May, Sector West) and Op Storm (August 4, Sectors North and South) mixed up (but that's okay, he wasn't there -- I was -- and it's peripheral to his story). Also, he was perhaps not aware that the Bosnian Muslim authorities refused to take in the Srebrenica "refugees" (technically, they were DPs) in Tuzla town (even though UNHCR insisted they had room for 10,000 more DPs in the town of Tuzla -- the Bosnian Muslim leadership was trying to make a political point to "the international community" and never mind the poor DPs), so UNHCR (not the "regular UN") set up the camp at the old airfield for them. Otherwise, for the most part, this is a pretty good account of what was going on at the time, I think. I've read and heard the accounts of UN/UNHCR/UNHCHR/ICRC who were in the area at the time, and this guy's story mostly matches those accounts.

Okay, back to Mr. Jones. He was, if genuine, apparently in one area at one time long after there was any war. And he was an American SFOR (or whatever they were called at the time he was there -- first it was IFOR, then SFOR...then was it changed again?) So he's the way he is.

About the American IFOR/SFORS: I really appreciate our military and I'm not speaking against them in any way. I really liked and admired the American military officers who were in Cambodia. But, the American IFOR/SFORs were the laughingstock of the local people and also other internationals in theatre.

My first sight of the American IFORs, I was shocked. They came into our UN canteen in Zagreb in January 1996 and PUT THEIR FEET UP ON THE TABLES (yes, they did!). They were cocky, loud and loved to shoot off their mouths about how they, the great Americans, were going to do what the stupid UN couldn't do -- and as guests in OUR dining room! (Never mind the poor UN had a sucky mandate precisely because of the US of A and these idiots weren't around when there really was a war.)

The Norwegian IFORs were really great. Totally different. I liked them. That's another story.

The whole time I was there, the poor Americans mostly hunkered down in their compounds and whenever they did go out (even when riding trams in Zagreb or going to their own PX in Slavonski Brod in BiH near the border with Croatia) they wore flak jackets and helmets and the whole works. I actually felt sorry for them, especially when it was hot. And they looked ridiculous. Nobody else went around like that, not even the other IFORs. I'm not faulting our American soldiers. They were just following orders. And I felt sorry for them being laughed at. They couldn't help what their orders were.

So how could an American IFOR/SFOR get much of a clue about what BiH was all about? They never really mingled with the local people. And you have to move around to different areas and talk with all kinds of people to even begin to understand what it's all about there.

BTW, the American military who were there all along (way before there were any IFORs or SFORs) running the MASH at Pleso (near Zagreb airport) were tops. Can't say enough good about them.

Anyway, I wondered if maybe the American SFOR types had changed their ways since I left the area. After all, I want to give Mr. Jones the benefit of the doubt. Nope. Found this:

... about American troops...

Here colloquially, they’re known as Russians with money. Because when the Russians went somewhere in the old days, they would build a fort and they would stay inside it. They wouldn’t go downtown to have a coffee or anything. They didn’t have any money. They were entirely suspicious (of others), they were ideological, and so they just really fortressed themselves in.

When Americans came to Tuzla after the war, they built this fortress, and they stayed in it. And when they went out, they went out in armored convoys with 50-caliber machine guns pointing at every old lady with a basket going shopping. And they treat everybody as though they’re drug-crazed Iranian terrorists, and frankly that is why the locals laugh at them. They call them Russians with money because they know they can afford a coffee but they still never go downtown for a coffee because they’re scared their (sic) going to be kidnapped if they go downtown for a coffee.

That is the way American soldiers are viewed. They are viewed from peace-building perspective as a joke, whereas the Scandinavians, the Dutch are really liked because they’re downtown in the coffee bars. They’re talking to people. They’re doing things... But if you want someone to stop a war, you can’t do it without America. ...So you’ve got to get America in perspective.

This interview was done in October 2003, so apparently they haven't changed. BTW, the person being interviewed is Canadian and ex-military. And what he says is exactly right. (Besides, I saw them acting precisely as he describes back in 1996-1998. And they were called "Russians with money" back then, too. I just hoped they'd changed their ways.)

Anyway, Joan has a good point. If you just go to one place at one time, you only see one aspect of the war. You have to move around -- or at least stay in one place which changes hands during the war to get a broader view. It's like taking one frame out of a movie, and thinking that's the whole film.

I've seen each of the three sides grossly mistreat each of the three other sides. I've also known ordinary people on all three sides who never mistreated anyone. Some were even heroic in saving or preventing people of the "other" ethnicity from harm.

Yet another great post by you, wonders. I'm bumpin' this to the top of the Balkan threads.

Sgt Major Wonders :)

I carefully read the Srebrenica story you posted, but it only seems to support the claim that Nasir Oric's soldiers were attacked in a series of firefights by the BSA as they tried to make it to Tuzla.

vooch :)

Speaking of "Sgt Major Wonders" (that still makes me giggle), Mr. Jones might well be Ms. Jones, you know ;)