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Student fights for the right to be 'right' Conservative teen shakes up campus
San Francisco Cronicle ^ | January 31, 2004 | Peter Fimrite

Posted on 02/01/2004 9:21:02 PM PST by Syncro

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:45:41 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Tim Bueler, like many cocksure 17-year-olds, is strident in expressing his political beliefs.

And to him, the Republican Party leans too far to the left.

That was the spark that launched his Conservative Club at Rancho Cotate High School in the Sonoma County town of Rohnert Park and ignited two months of rhetorical ugliness on campus. It also put him on the conservative talk show circuit, including an appearance Thursday on Fox television's "The O'Reilly Factor."


(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: conservativeclub; eagleforum; goodmorningamerica; highschoolclub; liberalteachers; rohnertparkca; theoreillyfactor; threats
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To: Pitchfork
Are you a liberal or have you simply assimilated PC norms and now act as thei pet opposition?
51 posted on 02/01/2004 11:28:15 PM PST by rmlew (Peaceniks and isolationists are objectively pro-Terrorist)
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To: MissAmericanPie
but I have seen and heard alot of growing discontent and outright hatred in a good number of caucasion kids. I tell my son to stay well clear of it.
It is amazing what heppens whena bunch of boys figure out that they will be blamed for all the ills of society and be legally discriminated against under the guise of anti-discrimination. it is amazing what happens when a generation sees their inheritance given to unassimilated foreigners.
Hatred is not a logical or beneficial response, but understandable.
52 posted on 02/01/2004 11:32:29 PM PST by rmlew (Peaceniks and isolationists are objectively pro-Terrorist)
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Comment #53 Removed by Moderator

To: Kay Soze
I saw this kid on O Reilley and he scares me.

I don't know about him starting a compound in Idaho, but I did see him on O'Reilley and if the schools want to be fair and balanced then they need to allow his views as well...but I'm not all that excited about jumping into the same bed as him. He's done the verbal equivalent of lighting a Molotov and tossed it into a theater...of course there will be screams.

54 posted on 02/01/2004 11:50:54 PM PST by highlander_UW
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To: rmlew
I don't know that they are mature enough to have all that figgured out. They are tired of being bullied, hit, etc, and not allowed to strike back without themselves facing detention and their parents facing a $250.00 fine.

They don't like the double standard and the cowards that have to have a gang back them up instead of going one on one like men. They are better than all that and they know it.
55 posted on 02/02/2004 12:01:00 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: Syncro
yeah, but later savage was trashing him on his show... weds or thursday I think
56 posted on 02/02/2004 12:53:51 AM PST by KneelBeforeZod (Deus Lo Volt)
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To: Syncro
"Remember the movie 'Rebel Without a Cause'?" asked Savage, the radio host whose book, "Savage Nation," Bueler borrowed liberally from in outlining his club's philosophy. "This kid represents rebels with a cause. He represents the new counterculture."

Gee, just the other day Savage wanted to sue the kid. How times change once he gets a little attention.

57 posted on 02/02/2004 4:37:13 AM PST by ClintonBeGone (<a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/~clintonbegone/">Hero</font></a>)
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To: Syncro
Debate?

What's the point? We have a preview of the left's "intellectual" arguments from some of these posts. I've heard it for four decades. It never changes.

To wit, you are a racist, I bet you have Nazi tattoos, go back to your compound in Idaho, you should be tolerant of other's ideas as we tolerate others' ideas (except yours), you should be tolerant of others as we are tolerant of others (except you), we're good and you're not, we believe that America welcomes immigrants and you want to hurt them, you're mean, you have free speech but you must be careful how you express yourself, you are a bigot, you hate people who are different from you, we don't like your short haircut or your German-sounding name, we believe in tolerance but. . . .

58 posted on 02/02/2004 5:25:56 AM PST by WilliamofCarmichael
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To: Elliott Jackalope
It's time to relegate publik screwls to the scrap heap of history, along with other failed concepts like Communism and Stalinism.

Absolutely right, but it's not going to happen. The NEA and the political establishment have got us taxpayers by the shorthairs and will NEVER, EVER stop confiscating our money for the public screwls.

The only way I can see public screwls disappearing is if parents take their children out of them, en masse. And that would have to be a VERY big 'en masse.'

Wake up, parents. There are NO good public schools left, even the ones in the wealthy suburbs. I learned this the hard way. Get your kids out before they're corrupted beyond all hope.

59 posted on 02/02/2004 5:54:31 AM PST by shhrubbery!
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To: Syncro
"the school district chose to honor his free speech"

Of course it did. With the amount of publicity this kid is getting, how could the school district censor him and get away with it?
60 posted on 02/02/2004 5:58:47 AM PST by freeangel (freeangel)
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To: Pitchfork
Up yours! This guy is a good kid.
61 posted on 02/02/2004 6:01:06 AM PST by ohioman
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To: rmlew
No, I've simply recognized and rejected the racism inherent in the arguments made by what I think is an undesirable strand of American conservatism. America is a nation built on ideas, not on some racial or cultural foundation. Not that the less intelligent among us haven't tried to assert this nativist argument today and in the past.

Here is a quote from the the Chicago Post and Tribune circa 1850 at the height of Irish immigration:

"The Irish fill our prisons, our poor houses...Scratch a convict or a pauper, and the chances are that you tickle the skin of an Irish Catholic. Putting them on a boat and sending them home would end crime in this country."

"Who does not know that the most depraved, debased, worthless, and irredeemable drunkards and sots which curse the community are Irish Catholics?" the Chicago Tribune (1855).

In the 1840s the "American Party" formed to prevent Irish immigration from undermining American ideals.

Given that Ronald Reagan was of Irish decent this looks pretty stupid today doesn't it?

The Italians faced the same prejudice, ironically some of it came from the Irish. the United States Congress (1911) found:
"The South Italians are slow in becoming Americanized and many in the coal regions who have been in this country from fifteen to twenty years are scarcely able to speak English. They live in colonies, have very little association with natives, and show little interest outside of their own immediate neighborhood. They are suspicious of Americans, do not trust their money to the banks,and trade at American shops as little as possible. They are making little progress toward Americanization. Each year the South Italians are investing more money in homes and real estate,and in becoming property owners, they are naturally led to take more interest in civic affairs. Even after the South Italian, however, has made his permanent home in the Southwest, he seems to make little effort to adopt American ways. He does not encourage his children in attending school but takes them away at an early age, thus preventing the second generation from having the opportunity of becoming assimilated. The children hear only Italian spoken in the colony and in the home, and their only opportunity to learn English is at school. . . . The Poles, Slovaks, and Magyars are almost as backward as South Italians

Of course Justice Scalia or Rudolph Gulianni might want to argue that this was all BS.

Frankly I'm sick of racists and rednecks covering their bigotry in some 'defense of the homeland' veneer.
So rmlew are you a Klan sympathizing bigot or have you simply assimilated their norms and act as their addled mouthpiece?
62 posted on 02/02/2004 6:26:33 AM PST by Pitchfork
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To: Pitchfork
It seems that when they passed out brains you thought they said trains and missed yours.
63 posted on 02/02/2004 6:46:19 AM PST by Piquaboy
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To: Piquaboy
Oh, that's brilliant. I'm glad you're adding to the quality of intellectual exchange on this forum. Now go play with your pre-school friends.

Every post like this simply evinces my claim that the kind of people who support the views of Bueler are complete morons.
64 posted on 02/02/2004 6:48:34 AM PST by Pitchfork
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To: Pitchfork
Truth really does hurt, doesn't it?
65 posted on 02/02/2004 6:54:06 AM PST by Piquaboy
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To: rmlew
We are going to have a war in this country -- jobs going overseas, illegal aliens sucking the breath out of this country, PC crap in schools (homosexual indoctrination, extreme environmentalism, stupid zero-tolerance rules), denigration of culture (last night for instance), Christianity marginalized, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

It's only a matter of time, and these kids will be in the forefront and God help this country.

66 posted on 02/02/2004 7:02:54 AM PST by ladylib
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To: Pitchfork
I'm denigrating him because he's a racist

I'm not so sure he's racist. I think he, like most Americans, are fed up with America's unwillingness to address illegal immigration. He's expressing the frustration.

Anyone who supports tough stands on immigration these days is branded a racist, by conservatives as well as liberals.

Personally, I think he's fighting a losing battle.

67 posted on 02/02/2004 7:21:45 AM PST by freebilly
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To: freebilly
are = is
68 posted on 02/02/2004 7:22:29 AM PST by freebilly
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To: Syncro
Ping me if this happens. I'd like to know.
69 posted on 02/02/2004 7:25:30 AM PST by freebilly
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
Debate?

What's the point? We have a preview of the left's "intellectual" arguments from some of these posts. I've heard it for four decades. It never changes.

To wit, you are a racist, I bet you have Nazi tattoos, go back to your compound in Idaho, you should be tolerant of other's ideas as we tolerate others' ideas (except yours), you should be tolerant of others as we are tolerant of others (except you), we're good and you're not, we believe that America welcomes immigrants and you want to hurt them, you're mean, you have free speech but you must be careful how you express yourself, you are a bigot, you hate people who are different from you, we don't like your short haircut or your German-sounding name, we believe in tolerance but. . . .

Exactly. People would rather engage in public speaking than be called racist....

70 posted on 02/02/2004 7:29:53 AM PST by freebilly
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To: Kay Soze
I saw this kid on O Reilley and he scares me. He will one day start a compound in Idaho

A compound of 100 people in Idaho scares you? What about 10 million people from Mexico here illegally. That doesn't scare you?

Al Qaida slipping across our porous borders doesn't scare you?

Illegal (and legal) immigrants operating sex slave rings in Plainfield, New Jersey and San Francisco, California don't scare you.

You, my friend, have an overactive imagination if you think a few nutbars in Idaho compounds are scarier than the realities that exist as the result of our border policies....

71 posted on 02/02/2004 7:43:02 AM PST by freebilly
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To: freebilly
I think there are two strands of argument in the illegal immigration debate.
One strand argues that immigrants are a drain on our economy becuase the demand social services, send money back to the home country etc. However, to make this argument you must acknowldge the positive economic impact that these illegal aliens make (working low wage jobs, paying taxes both directly and indirectly). That is an empirical question and one I'd like to see more discussion about. What is the net loss or gain from illegal immigration to the country?

The other argument is rooted in a 'protection of American culture' perspective. This approach begins assumes a greater degree of cutltural homogeneity in the USA than really exists (or ever existed) and then insists that we enact policies to achieve it.
72 posted on 02/02/2004 7:52:46 AM PST by Pitchfork
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To: Pitchfork
The Public School system in America is a joke and an excuse for socialists to teach their crap, especially at the college level...My kids are thankfully in a private school where they are learning and able to talk freely about God, their opinions, etc without fear of retribution...I think the whole public school system ought to be overhauled but there as long as politicians hold the money box, the only opportunities for kids lie in the parents willing enough to sacrifice for their kids and send them to private schools - imagine if even 50% of the parents decided for 1 year to pull their children out - why it would cause a revolution!
73 posted on 02/02/2004 8:07:06 AM PST by princess leah
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To: Pitchfork
Listen, every wacko that comes to this country can say and do as they please. Most of our teachers in public schools and on college campuses are liberals and spout their rhetoric. Even illegal immigrants are complaining about being called illegals. Get off this kids back he has a right to be heard like anyone else.
Have we become a nation of cowards. I dare say so when a citizen born in this country is not allowed to speak his mind and any liberal and illegal can.
74 posted on 02/02/2004 9:19:27 AM PST by gunnedah
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To: Woahhs
"He's a kid. How much subtlety and discretion do you expect out of him?"

I am 20
75 posted on 02/02/2004 10:26:43 AM PST by luckydevi
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To: Pitchfork
One strand argues that immigrants are a drain on our economy becuase the demand social services, send money back to the home country etc. However, to make this argument you must acknowldge the positive economic impact that these illegal aliens make (working low wage jobs, paying taxes both directly and indirectly). That is an empirical question and one I'd like to see more discussion about. What is the net loss or gain from illegal immigration to the country?

The economic questions are the interesting ones. The cultural homogeneity stuff I've never bought. I'm the son of an Asian immigrant, so few can accuse me of being biased against people from other cultures coming to the US.

The real answer is I don't think anyone has a realistic answer about what we do with those who are here illegally. My daughter has married into a family full of illegals from Mexico. There are those who post here who think I should turn them in to the INS. Fat chance. Now I don't want to dismiss their being here illegally; however, I don't particularly fault them for coming SINCE OUR GOVERNMENT HAS CHOSEN TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY about their presence.

My mother had a great saying-- "Never complain about what you let happen."

Well, our government-- WE-- have let 10 million people come here illegally. We've permitted it. There ain't no way in the world that genie's going back in the bottle.

I wish I had a simple solution, but I don't.

76 posted on 02/02/2004 11:17:03 AM PST by freebilly
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To: luckydevi
I am 20

Then I'd have to say you are relatively new to the culture wars. You've picked a good place to hang out.

77 posted on 02/02/2004 11:21:21 AM PST by Woahhs
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To: Pitchfork
I'm denigrating him because he's a racist.

Which judging from the context, you must define as being someone who wants to protect the continuity of his own culture and lines of descent--in short any normal person in the world, before the advent of deceptive Socialism, seeking an undifferentiated humanity, under a one-world system!

The bandying of insulting and emotional terms in the place of reasoned argument, is a technique of the far left. Conservatives and moderates make a terrible mistake, playing their game.

As for the immigration question, see Immigration & The American Future. As for the Leftwing war on continuity of culture, see Destroying Cultural Continuity. To recognize who really are the bigots in the argument, see How To Recognize The Bigot In The Argument.

William Flax

78 posted on 02/02/2004 12:05:53 PM PST by Ohioan
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To: Pitchfork
His position is indefensible unless you think America is for white people only.

It is nice of you to cavalierly assume that the position of those of us who want to preserve the character of the America, created by the Founding Fathers, in and immediately after the Revolution, is indefensible. No one is denying the rightful presence here of the American Indians, or the American Negroes, nor of the more recent settlements by Asian immigrants, etc.. But the legitimate presence of these groups, does not, in any way, negate the legitimate interest we have in preserving the basic character of the American mainstream.

It is idiotic that we are trying to preserve--and should try to preserve--other species and cultures on this earth, but have no interest in preserving the culture and ongoing character of the American mainstream. What is indefensible is your apparent hostility to the concept.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

79 posted on 02/02/2004 12:20:05 PM PST by Ohioan
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To: freebilly
RE: "Exactly. People would rather engage in public speaking than be called racist.."

Yes. My point was suppose to be, what good does it do to simply respond emotionally without making any effort to debate facts.

For example, some here attack the young man as a "racist" because he has a problem with some legal immigrants. Well so do all rational American citizens of all races and ethnicities! Here's why.

Problems of welfare use by legal immigrants. Quite a bit of material here on this controversial topic.

http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/pub/Immigration/WelfareUse/Index.html

It got so bad that there was welfare reform in 1996 that specifically EXCLUDED non-citizens from receiving welfare and such things as Section 8 housing. The problem continues.

Heather Mac Donald of http://www.manhattan-institute.org

has had a couple of articles covering recent legal imigrants' use our welfare system

Perhaps the best source is the Center for Immigration Studies, cis.org

A good start is a CIS study at

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=10761

It shows that immigrants (legal and ILLEGAL) use welfare far more than native born -- by a rate of 25 percent to 16 percent.

It is NOT racist to question people flocking here to use our welfare systems!!

It's better to light a few brain cells than curse people with ad hominem, emotional irrational "arguments." But feeeeeeeelings are all liberals have to work with.

80 posted on 02/02/2004 1:51:40 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael
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To: Syncro
Tim Bueler, like many cocksure 17-year-olds...

Hopefully this will spead over into the 18 year olds that will be allowed to vote. Oh wait a minute, Howard Dean already has that crowd brainwashed.


81 posted on 02/02/2004 1:56:38 PM PST by unixfox (Close the borders, problems solved!)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
It's better to light a few brain cells than curse people with ad hominem, emotional irrational "arguments." But feeeeeeeelings are all liberals have to work with.

You're right. You might win a flame war or two but lose the battle in the process. I'm as guilty as anyone with the ad hominem attacks, but they're never successful. I've yet to make a convert from someone I've called an idiot.

82 posted on 02/02/2004 8:21:29 PM PST by freebilly
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To: Syncro; everyone
How in the hell can you put down a kid for believing in something? We tell kids to go into the world and make a difference, well Tim stood up and accepted the challenge.

He is expressing himself in a way that no other student has done. But as soon as a conservative club comes to campus the teachers say take a stand against them.

Well telling the students to take a stand against all conservatives is NOT what they are teaching. The teachers are instigating hate. When Tim was threatened by 20 Latino students a teacher said get out of my room, go face them, ironically that teacher was former representative of the Stop Hate Club.

That line liberals accept every Muhammad, Jose, and Jamal... yes that was not right to say, I agree, but he expressed that illegal immigrants are NOT allowed here and therefore they should not be here. Last time we told Immigration to not do their jobs 19 guys stole our planes, slit our flight attendants throats, and crashed our planes into our buildings.

He, nor should anyone, want this to happen again. We expressed one side of the issue after the school exposes the other and we are wrong and racist.

We say illegal immigrants, and it automatically means Mexicans or Muslim terrorist. We have and article saying no matter what your skin color, if your illegal, you should not be here.

But teachers focus on 2 lines out of the whole newsletter. If we look at our Constitution and only look at a few lines, we could call all the founding fathers racist, nonreligious, white rich rednecks, but look at the whole thing and it is great and fits together.

Have you heard any other lines from the newsletter other then the 2 lines in this article? No because the other 99% of it is great. It tells you how hate is untolerable. I am a member of this club and am proud to say I am. I have many Latino friends, as does Tim. We are not racist and Tim has no swastikas tattooed on his chest, he does not tell black people to bite the curb, but he has come a long way in his life and knows what he's saying. We are young, but defiantly not dumb.
83 posted on 02/03/2004 1:10:48 AM PST by spitfire525
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To: spitfire525
Check your FR mail Spitfire.
84 posted on 02/03/2004 1:13:00 AM PST by Syncro
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To: spitfire525
Tomorrow at school tell Tim that you are spitfire at Free Republic.

I talked to him about you, and he doesn't know your sign on name here.


Thanks
85 posted on 02/03/2004 1:18:33 AM PST by Syncro
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To: Syncro; everyone
How in the hell can you put down a kid for believing in something? We tell kids to go into the world and make a difference, well Tim stood up and accepted the challenge.

He is expressing himself in a way that no other student has done. But as soon as a conservative club comes to campus the teachers say take a stand against them.

Well telling the students to take a stand against all conservatives is NOT what they are teaching. The teachers are instigating hate. When Tim was threatened by 20 Latino students a teacher said get out of my room, go face them, ironically that teacher was former representative of the Stop Hate Club.

That line liberals accept every Muhammad, Jose, and Jamal... yes that was not right to say, I agree, but he expressed that illegal immigrants are NOT allowed here and therefore they should not be here. Last time we told Immigration to not do their jobs 19 guys stole our planes, slit our flight attendants throats, and crashed our planes into our buildings.

He, nor should anyone, want this to happen again. We expressed one side of the issue after the school exposes the other and we are wrong and racist.

We say illegal immigrants, and it automatically means Mexicans or Muslim terrorist. We have and article saying no matter what your skin color, if your illegal, you should not be here.

But teachers focus on 2 lines out of the whole newsletter. If we look at our Constitution and only look at a few lines, we could call all the founding fathers racist, nonreligious, white rich rednecks, but look at the whole thing and it is great and fits together.

Have you heard any other lines from the newsletter other then the 2 lines in this article? No because the other 99% of it is great. It tells you how hate is untolerable. I am a member of this club and am proud to say I am. I have many Latino friends, as does Tim. We are not racist and Tim has no swastikas tattooed on his chest, he does not tell black people to bite the curb, but he has come a long way in his life and knows what he's saying. We are young, but defiantly not dumb.
86 posted on 02/03/2004 1:21:09 AM PST by spitfire525
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To: Syncro
How in the hell can you put down a kid for believing in something? We tell kids to go into the world and make a difference, well Tim stood up and accepted the challenge.

He is expressing himself in a way that no other student has done. But as soon as a conservative club comes to campus the teachers say take a stand against them.

Well telling the students to take a stand against all conservatives is NOT what they are teaching. The teachers are instigating hate. When Tim was threatened by 20 Latino students a teacher said get out of my room, go face them, ironically that teacher was former representative of the Stop Hate Club.

That line liberals accept every Muhammad, Jose, and Jamal... yes that was not right to say, I agree, but he expressed that illegal immigrants are NOT allowed here and therefore they should not be here. Last time we told Immigration to not do their jobs 19 guys stole our planes, slit our flight attendants throats, and crashed our planes into our buildings.

He, nor should anyone, want this to happen again. We expressed one side of the issue after the school exposes the other and we are wrong and racist.

We say illegal immigrants, and it automatically means Mexicans or Muslim terrorist. We have and article saying no matter what your skin color, if your illegal, you should not be here.

But teachers focus on 2 lines out of the whole newsletter. If we look at our Constitution and only look at a few lines, we could call all the founding fathers racist, nonreligious, white rich rednecks, but look at the whole thing and it is great and fits together.

Have you heard any other lines from the newsletter other then the 2 lines in this article? No because the other 99% of it is great. It tells you how hate is untolerable. I am a member of this club and am proud to say I am. I have many Latino friends, as does Tim. We are not racist and Tim has no swastikas tattooed on his chest, he does not tell black people to bite the curb, but he has come a long way in his life and knows what he's saying. We are young, but defiantly not dumb.
87 posted on 02/03/2004 1:22:38 AM PST by spitfire525
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To: spitfire525
oops accidently hit thr button to many times
88 posted on 02/03/2004 1:24:35 AM PST by spitfire525
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To: spitfire525
LOL

Those double and triple posts are a bear, you'll get the hang of it though.

Your comments are right on.

Like the liberals always do, they take something out of context because they have no facts or knowledge of what is really going on and are only interested in pushing their agenda.

Last time we told Immigration to not do their jobs 19 guys stole our planes, slit our flight attendants throats, and crashed our planes into our buildings.
We have and article saying no matter what your skin color, if your illegal, you should not be here.

Good points.

89 posted on 02/03/2004 1:29:23 AM PST by Syncro
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