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Ex-Presidents, Johnson Widow Call for JFK Film Probe
AP via TBO ^ | February 2,2004 | Lynn Elber

Posted on 02/02/2004 6:20:27 PM PST by John W

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To: FreedomCalls
As I suspected. Any evidence I present you will dismiss as either fake, fraudulent, or "it doesn't matter".

You're getting your evidence from the murderers! Let's listen to the eyewitnesses and insiders instead.

Any opinion you have is irrefutable even when no evidence at all is presented. I might as well argue with a stump. Good bye.

Yep, you'll never convince me that things magically appear in this case.

101 posted on 02/02/2004 10:28:09 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: tpaine
The holes in the back of JFKs clothes are roughly horizontal from the 'fine gents' tie..

You have a picture of the wound on the body that you are ignoring. This picture taken a few seconds before the shooting shows his jacket riding up his back because of his brace causing the hole in the jacket to be not where it would be if naturally draped over his body when he was standing.


102 posted on 02/02/2004 10:30:26 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Euro-American Scum
We [Marines] can indeed shoot however, Oswald's marksmanship scores were in the latter third of qual scores. He was rated "Marskman": the lowest rating possible.

Expert
________________

Sharpshooter
________________

Marksman = Oswald

Most who qual Marksman do so after failing the first or even second qualification and end up as retreads who are then pampered through to the minimum qualification....or else they dont pass through Recruit training and are washouts sent home. They dont develope into moving target shooters after barely qualing on stationary targets, scope or no scope.

I on the other hand am a third award expert in both rifle and pistol [qualifying in the top third scoring bracket three times in a row]. I consistently placed head shots [9-10] from the 600 yard prone and I wouldnt be at all comfortable with the idea of trying to squeeze off the supposed shots that killed the President.

My experience tells me that Oswald was either one of the luckiest shooters the World has ever seen or...

...he wasnt the only shooter or more likely...

...not even a shooter at all.

JMHO

103 posted on 02/02/2004 10:39:00 PM PST by VaBthang4 (-He who watches over Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps-)
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To: FreedomCalls
Working a bolt and firing? Sure -- But no, I never 'tried it' in realistic terms, -- and neither did you..

Are you claiming you rigged up a moving target passing down in front of you then going away on a slight curve while you were at a 60ft high window looking through tree branches at the proper distances?

Get off it.
104 posted on 02/02/2004 10:39:16 PM PST by tpaine (I'm trying to be 'Mr Nice Guy', but the U.S. Constitution defines a conservative. (writer 33 )
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To: tpaine; FreedomCalls
See #103
105 posted on 02/02/2004 10:47:31 PM PST by VaBthang4 (-He who watches over Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps-)
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To: LisaMalia
Your welcome, Lisa. Likewise here.
106 posted on 02/02/2004 10:47:46 PM PST by Eastbound
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To: FreedomCalls
That picture shows no 'bunching'.. The shirt & jacket holes align, showing no 'bunching'.. Portions of the written notes/sketches from the autopsy show the wounds lower on his back, conforming to the holes in his clothes..


Nothing fits, so we must aquits.. As Johnny should have put it..
107 posted on 02/02/2004 10:51:00 PM PST by tpaine (I'm trying to be 'Mr Nice Guy', but the U.S. Constitution defines a conservative. (writer 33 )
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To: VaBthang4
Interesting. Makes me wonder if the pristine bullet was placed only for the purpose of connecting it to the rifle in the depository, which may or may not have been the rifle(s) actually used.
108 posted on 02/02/2004 10:52:12 PM PST by Eastbound
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To: #3Fan
And the exit wound from the bullet that went through the windshield and entered Kennedy's throat is...where?
109 posted on 02/02/2004 10:58:20 PM PST by BigBobber
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To: VaBthang4
Yep.. -- And I saw a lot of 'marksmen' qualified by frustrated NCO's, just so we could all get back to the barracks..


110 posted on 02/02/2004 10:58:40 PM PST by tpaine (I'm trying to be 'Mr Nice Guy', but the U.S. Constitution defines a conservative. (writer 33 )
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To: FreedomCalls
A cheap ass bolt action rifle with scope and three rounds in 5 seconds on taregt at a moving away target? Think, man!
111 posted on 02/02/2004 11:02:57 PM PST by NMFXSTC
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To: FreedomCalls
No, I went out and did it! I used a Mosin-Nagant instead of a Mannlicher-Carcano since that was all I had, but it was simple even with the more difficult to use Nagant bolt. I did not have to rush at all. Have you tried it?

Try this experiment: Take a Mannlicher-Carcano, or any similar rifle that will break down only to where its longest piece is no shorter than 35 inches. Wrap it in paper. Carry it with one end of its long axis cupped in your hand, and the other end stuffed into the armpit of that same arm, as Oswald carried the supposed rifle.

BTW, there is no record of Oswald being a dominant center in the NBA.

112 posted on 02/02/2004 11:05:57 PM PST by per loin
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To: VaBthang4
Agreed. From an improvised rest, sighting through a scope, shooting a rifle-caliber cartridge through carbine length (weight) rifle, even the relatively mild recoil of a 6.5 round would make it awful hard to shoot three shots and get back on a moving target.

Also, wouldn't Oswald have trained with the M1? Very experienced shooters can manipulate a bolt action faster than a semi-auto, but I'm talking REAL experienced.

I doubt he could do it.
113 posted on 02/02/2004 11:06:06 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass
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To: VaBthang4
I wouldnt be at all comfortable with the idea of trying to squeeze off the supposed shots that killed the President.

My experience tells me that Oswald was either one of the luckiest shooters the World has ever seen or...

You're giving Oswald way too much credit. He made one fatal shot out of three attempts. One shot missed completely. One shot was well below the intended target (he was aiming at the head, not the back).

You're right. Oswald was lucky. Don't pump him up to be superman and say no one can duplicate the feat. That doesn't fit the facts: One fatal shot out of three. That's all.

114 posted on 02/02/2004 11:06:52 PM PST by BigBobber
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To: NMFXSTC
He thinks he's a rifleman.
But he's pretty well proven he really isn't..
115 posted on 02/02/2004 11:07:56 PM PST by tpaine (I'm trying to be 'Mr Nice Guy', but the U.S. Constitution defines a conservative. (writer 33 )
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To: tpaine
Well I never saw any pushed through without actually squeezing off the rounds but I also witnessed plenty of Senior Drill Instructors step in and begin coaching the recruits.

It's just a fact of recruit training: Some guys cant be taught to shoot...they just dont have the temperment. You accept their presence and try to get their scores as high as possible.

Marksmen just dont develope into snipers. I'd venture a guess and say with boldness that there has never been a single Marine sniper who began out as a recruit shooting a pizzabox.

Alot of shooting can be learned but it is first learned at recruit depot rifle ranges and taught by some of the finest shooters in the World...if you cant step up there, you're just not going to.

Graduation from BRASS F Marksman to Presidential sniper is just so overwhelmingly unlikely.
116 posted on 02/02/2004 11:08:40 PM PST by VaBthang4 (-He who watches over Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps-)
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To: BigBobber
So, who hit JFK in the brain-pan? Or are you saying that the back-neck shot wasn't fatal?
117 posted on 02/02/2004 11:17:12 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass
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To: BigBobber
You've interpreted "pumping up".

From what I understand, he supposedly scored two hits. One should be considered luck.

The other being a fatal headshot on a target moving away [getting away]...where you'd have to aim precise in order to strike the head. Plus he'd have to factor in the trigger pull on top of the precise aim point, all in nanoseconds of the second shot.

And oh yeah...the bullet would have to first bounce off of something in front of the president in order to actually come back and strike him from the right front.

Sorry Bro.

Most of life is commonsense and shooting is about as commonsense as it gets. You can either do it or you cant.

Oswald's Rifle scores scream [not hint] that he couldnt. Regardless of the weapon and or scenario.
118 posted on 02/02/2004 11:18:17 PM PST by VaBthang4 (-He who watches over Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps-)
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To: BigBobber
BigBobber wrote:

He made one fatal shot out of three attempts. One shot missed completely.

According to Spector, the last.. - Which makes no sense, but hey..

One shot was well below the intended target (he was aiming at the head, not the back)

Yep, but this first bullet supposedly hit 6" below the collar, which magically exits at the tie & hits Connally, and emerges almost pristine on a stretcher.

Then our boy re-aquires the target while working the bolt and snaps off the perfect head shot. Leaving him time to go for the guy standing down by the underpass..
Yep. -- It all fits..

To Alan Spector, it was all logical..

119 posted on 02/02/2004 11:26:15 PM PST by tpaine (I'm trying to be 'Mr Nice Guy', but the U.S. Constitution defines a conservative. (writer 33 )
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To: VaBthang4
I was army, and that 'coaching' was when the qualifing shots all seemed to happen to be shot..
Did the range officer question NCO's ethics?
-- Bet me...
120 posted on 02/02/2004 11:36:34 PM PST by tpaine (I'm trying to be 'Mr Nice Guy', but the U.S. Constitution defines a conservative. (writer 33 )
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